"Life Without Bread"

[Chrissy]

For those of you losing a lot of weight and getting cholesterol levels checked, you might be interested in the following article:

What is this wacky thing called “weight loss”?

Posted on September 20, 2011 by Dr. William Davis

I’ve discussed this before, but it has proven such an (encouragingly!) frequent issue that I thought it was worth discussing once again.

What happens when you lose weight?

The process of weight loss is characterized by multiple shifts in metabolic patterns that can be confusing. To the uninitiated eye, weight loss can look like a disastrous distortion in metabolism. The naive doctor on seeing your lab values, for instance, might insist you take a statin drug, a fibrate like Tricor (to reduce triglycerides or increase HDL), or simply berate you for your bad health habits–when it’s actually a good thing you’ve accomplished.

Thank you for this information Psyche. My son's follow up with his Endocrinologist is in November and although he has been losing weight by reducing his carbs, I have no idea what his labs will look like. This lessens my worry.

 

[Chu]

As you obviously know, attack toward you all at the château and FOTCM at the moment are climbing. Atreide is honesty is obvious in is post but for someone from the exterior reading it, not knowing about The List, it could be interpreted quit radically.

It was interpreted as radical by YOU. First you change your diet without having read the material carefully, then you develop health issues due to an improper transition and years of toxic food and more, and you basically dump it on the forum. Then, when you get given feedback patiently, you turn around and call it "doctrinal". Heck, when I read your series of posts together, you sound like one of the defamers! And then you turn around and say you were trying to point these things out to protect us? Thank you very much, but with protection like that, who needs attacks?

Psyche summed it up very well for you above. If you don't have the time to read, instead of using it for self-pity, then simply don't change anything on your diet until you do. And then, you do it responsibly. Information is shared in this forum, then YOU make your own decisions.

 

[SolarMother]

For those of you losing a lot of weight and getting cholesterol levels checked, you might be interested in the following article:

What is this wacky thing called “weight loss”?

Posted on September 20, 2011 by Dr. William Davis

I’ve discussed this before, but it has proven such an (encouragingly!) frequent issue that I thought it was worth discussing once again.

What happens when you lose weight?

The process of weight loss is characterized by multiple shifts in metabolic patterns that can be confusing. To the uninitiated eye, weight loss can look like a disastrous distortion in metabolism. The naive doctor on seeing your lab values, for instance, might insist you take a statin drug, a fibrate like Tricor (to reduce triglycerides or increase HDL), or simply berate you for your bad health habits–when it’s actually a good thing you’ve accomplished.

Thank you for this information Psyche. My son's follow up with his Endocrinologist is in November and although he has been losing weight by reducing his carbs, I have no idea what his labs will look like. This lessens my worry.

Yes, it has been wacky! Thanks much for this,Psyche. Very helpful reminder.
I am thankful that we stay away from doctors (except Dr Psyche online) and tests!
Yes, at at times, doctors and tests are neccessary, but I have seen the damage to members of my family (my parent's health deteriorated over the years as a result of doctors and tests) and it really makes me and quite sad to see it.

 

[SolarMother]

Do your porc chops, the roast or shoulder look like this, when you see the amount of fat compared to the amount of meat?

If not, then they are not fatty enough. Tip: you can add butter, lard, ghee, etc.!

We had pork chops for dinner tonight, but they didn't look like that!! They hardly had any fat. Problem here is you can't get them in the supermarket with fat on them and butchers are non-existant. My husband cooked them in a skillet with olive oil, I would have preferred bacon fat or ghee but he doesn't like cooking with the bacon fat, he says it taints the flavor makes the other food taste too "bacon-y."

I LIKE bacon!

I actually prefer to smear on bacon fat after the meal is cooked instead of cooking in bacon fat. I find bacon fat doesn't make the best cooking fat (seems to taste off after essentially being cooked twice). Just spread it on like butter after the fact - it's delicious!

BTW, that pork chop picture looks like the most delicious thing I've ever seen, Ailén. I wish I could get meat with that much fat! Maybe it's time to search out another butcher...

I continue on the Quest for the Holy Grail Chop! I can find nothing like this picture. This is actually from a pasture-fed pig??


Edit: mod corrected the quotes

 

[Laurentien2]

I don't know where to begin. Got a short night sleep, made breakfast for the family, ate 3slices of bacon. Brought my daughter to school, some shopping and took a walk up the mountain for two hours. Walking, I realized that nobody on the forum really know me. At the exception of Mocachapeau, whom I met last spring during the moon fest, I never opened myself on the forum. I have carried since arriving here experience within me that I wished to share but, withhold because I was afraid it would be perceived as noise.
Reading your post Ailén a few minute ago,

It was interpreted as radical by YOU. First you change your diet without having read the material carefully, then you develop health issues due to an improper transition and years of toxic food and more, and you basically dump it on the forum. Then, when you get given feedback patiently, you turn around and call it "doctrinal". Heck, when I read your series of posts together, you sound like one of the defamers! And then you turn around and say you were trying to point these things out to protect us? Thank you very much, but with protection like that, who needs attacks?

I thought that it may be to late. If a defamer I act like, then it is time for me to leave the forum. I will be assure that way that I won't endanger this forum anymore. It would have been my last post anyway so no big deal. But it would have explained my reaction to Atreides post and the reason for me to leave the forum.

Wish you all the best,

Laurentien

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Laurentien, you can of course do as you wish, but you are once again reacting emotionally. You are not attacking or endangering the forum, at least this is not the problem as I can see. The issue is that you had an emotional reaction which caused you to defend your diet habits, and then switched stances as if you were just trying to "protect" the forum and in the process disguise your initial reaction, and this was pointed out to you in hopes that you analyze what you said and why you said it, and grow from that introspection. Instead of doing this, and considering carefully what was being said, you decide to run away? Do you really value this forum and networking so little? Why is a little analysis of your reaction so offensive to you, and why is your first reaction to run rather than "fix" within yourself whatever may be causing your behavior in the first place? What you're doing is skirting the issue again, using excuses like "I'm a defamer" as a reason to leave, and once again refusing to question yourself and your programs in the process.

You know, *everyone* is a "defamer" until they choose to be otherwise. The only way any of us can change this is by Working on yourself, by handling a little constructive criticism in stride. The aim of this forum, after all, is to assist in everyone's self-development - to turn us from attackers/defamers/whatever into a more conscious, more wise, and more caring human beings. Bottom line - running away will not help you achieve this in the least, nor are you "protecting" the forum by doing so, even if you're using this (rather flimsy) excuse to run and protect your predator from exposure. I, for one, hope you think about it, maybe sleep on it, and then stick around - because then everyone benefits and learns! Also, the excuse of "nobody knows me" is, just like the others, just an empty rationalization by your predator to convince you to leave, and prevent yourself from seeing it for what it is.

Just remember - you are not your friggin khakis! You are not your programs, your predator, your emotional identifications, etc. So if there is any "attacking" going on, it's not by you, it's by those foreign installations that you carry with you, which you absolutely can understand and get rid of, if you choose. So why protect them and give them more time to rule you by running away from the one place that can assist the real you in getting rid of them once and for all?

 

[John G]

I thought that it may be to late. If a defamer I act like, then it is time for me to leave the forum. I will be assure that way that I won't endanger this forum anymore.

Yeah I've been mirrored here before too and I wanted to limit my damage here too. Obviously we all aren't perfect. I may think of Atreides as Pryderi, son of Rhiannon and Pwyll, but obviously being perfect at every step isn't exactly the message of Atreides' post. It's not like the legendary rulers and goddesses were perfect either. Heck I seem to recall the Cs lost 309,000 years ago.

That Carnegie Mellon guy Atreides linked to isn't perfect either I'm sure, he doesn't even want to talk about spirituality for whatever reason. But he really did what he could do at his point wherever he was at; it's not like you have to do all there is to do in this one life.

I don't think anyone is suggesting you (or I when I got mirrored) are a major risk for the forum but it's always good to watch oneself when writing here (and elsewhere) for normal human problems like self-importance or lack of external consideration or letting your horses run wild when there's not a problem or simply not understanding the topic or whatever.

I was actually finishing up my undergraduate engineering degree at CMU when that professor was starting his graduate work at CMU. If I ran into him I don't remember it but CMU is the earliest place where I can say I was heading for the pig farming lands of Pryderi. I just didn't expect it to be quite this amazing in this lifetime. I'm far from perfect but the front row seat is often quite amazing just like that CMU professor described his seat through life. We all seem to have different quests and different things to do for this life.

 

[pete02]

Do your porc chops, the roast or shoulder look like this, when you see the amount of fat compared to the amount of meat?

If not, then they are not fatty enough. Tip: you can add butter, lard, ghee, etc.!

I actually had a pork chop just like this one last night. The meat was tender and the fat melted in my mouth. It was one of the most delicious things I've had in a while. I'm calling back my local farm and stocking up on these things! :P

I have found an Amish farm located out of Lancaster, Pa. and they only deal with foods that are naturally grown. Being that they're Amish they don't have a website and need to be contacted by phone. They ship Fed Ex overnite and sometimes the shipping and handling charges could add an extra $25-30. to the bill but the quality of the meats has been awesome so far. I've been buying my dog food from them as well.

I'm not sure how far they're willing to ship to but for anyone who might be within a reasonable distance I'll list their info for ya.
Miller's Organic Farm (717)556-0672
648 Millcreek School Rd. - Bird in Hand, Pa. 17505

 

[Laura]

I think Laurentian has a lot on his plate right now, no pun intended. He's been a carb addict for most of his life and now, suddenly, he is being confronted with a condition that can lead into very serious matters and becoming aware that he needs to do something about it right quick.

So, he has never been able to think optimally on carbs, and now, going cold-turkey, as it were, he is even less able to think clearly. I think he needs some slack and time to heal.

One of the most important things that Atriedes learned in his experience was how he was NOT in his "right mind" for most of his life, either, and only after some months of the necessary and sufficient diet for healing a terrible condition, did he begin to emerge from that fog. I think the same will happen for Laurentian. Because, of course, we notice some of the same lack of self-esteem, blaming the self, "go eat worms and die" syndrome, etc. We've all been there!

So, Laurentian, just work on getting better, stay in touch, and don't make decisions when YOU are not in control.

 

[Renaissance]

So, Laurentian, just work on getting better, stay in touch, and don't make decisions when YOU are not in control.

Thanks for that, Laura. It's a good reminder of just how much being on carbs, and coming off of them can mess with your emotions and thinking.

Laurentian, best wishes to you and your health.

 

[Don Genaro]

I recently downloaded a trial version on kindle of "Eat Like an Indian - The Real Paleo Diet" by Leon Worth. I read it today and liked the introduction. I don't know if it will have anything new to add to what we have been discussing here but I certainly get the feeling it will affirm lots of what we already know. One thing that got my attention I guess was how he talks a lot about the Native Americans and their attitude to food- this grabbed me particularly in relation to the recent direction this thread has been taking.

From the introduction:

The Indian people tried to live in what they described as a balance with nature. They tried not to take anything that they did not put back in some way. But we do not and have not lived in balance for a very long time. What this book describes is a change of lifestyle, not a list of bullet points. I hope it will help lead some of us back to that balance which we badly lack. This is your chance to take a different road.

He shares a number of anecdotes, some of which I will put down here.

Anecdotes are many of historic Native Americans and other tribal peoples who routinely accomplished physical feats unheard of to us outside of Olympic circles. A few examples- Seton says:
We know that Whitemens' ways, vice and diseases have robbed the Indians of much of their former physique... and yet - the Tarahumare mail carrier runs 70 miles (112 km) a day, every day in the week carrying a heavy mailbag, and he doesn't know that he is doing an exploit.

another Tarahumare mail carrier from Chihuahua to Batopiles, Mexico, runs regularly more than 500 miles a week. (Ref., Seton, pg 48)

Recorded by Lame Deer:
...you look around and you see all of those commodities-fed young Indians with most of their teeth gone. The modern food, the shiny new hospitals and bad teeth seem to go together. But we used to be a healthy people. Those old men, the warriors who had fought Custer, still used to meet in the 1930's and 1940's. Some were over a hundred years old, still able to sit on a horse, still liking to chew on tough meat (Ref., Lame Deer, p. 170)

Recorded by Luther Standing Bear: while with the Buffalo Bill travelling show he remarked,
...the waiters came to serve us. The meat was cut into small pieces and served with potatoes and some other vegetables and some greens. We cared nothing for the greens. All we wanted was meat, and plenty of it. So we would take the meat off the platter and hand it back to the waiter with the potatoes and other things still on it... I told him Indians did not care for a lot of mixed-up foods... that they wanted meat- lots of it. (Ref., Standing Bear, pg. 251)

And this is the kind of thing that happened when the Indians first encountered the Whiteman's food:
My first day at school was also the first time I had beans... That night, when I came home, my grandparents had to open up the windows. They said my air was no good. Up to then I had eaten nothing but dry meat, wasna, papa, dry corn mixed with berries... Only seldom had I tasted sugar or candy... For days on end they fed us cheese sandwiches, which made Grandma sniff at me, saying, "Grandson, have you been near some goats?" (Ref., Lame Deer, pg. 26)

The Indians would take the sacks of commodity flour from the government, which they had never seen before, and dump them, saving the sacks to make shirts with (Standing Bear, pg. 71)

(I can imagine how the Whiteman lamented the "poor ignorant savages" when he witnessed this

And others such as Mails:
The anecdote is related in the 1979 biography of the most famous Sioux Indian medicine man, Fools Crow, that he said he was sure he could have cured cancer too, but he had never actually seen a case of it. (Ref., Mails, Fools Crow, pg. 185)

But it is impossible to really eat like a traditional Indian today, both because their way of life was destroyed and because you are probably too different genetically. The buffalo have long been massacred, and the few wild ones remaining are routinely shot by ranchers around Yellowstone if they stray out of the park, out of obsessive fears that they will give brucellosis to their cows. The Indians never encountered brucellosis (or cows, which they called "spotted buffalo"). These ranchers are descendants of those who originally slaughtered the herds and left them to rot. Buffalo meat that you can buy today is from small domesticated animals that have no way to feed as their wild ancestors did, although it is marginally better than the feedlot beef you get otherwise. But places that sell it seem to take pride in making it as low fat as possible even though the buffalo fat is what makes it so nutritious.....
...Standing Bear says about the Indians' first experience with cattle:
.... They said the government has sent some spotted buffalo for the Indians... Our own wild buffalo had been disappearing rapidly as the white people had been killing them as fast as possible. We were very happy to learn that we were to receive more meat... (But) what a terrible odor met us! It was awful!"
Did you ever think about the difference in meat that is killed while in a contented state, and meat that is carried in trains day after day on the hoof?... We knew the difference - which was the reason we could not eat this sort of meat when we first began to receive it. (Ref., Standing Bear, pp. 59-60)

It's no wonder the PTB wanted to wipe out the Native Americans before they started to share their knowledge with the Whiteman. Anyway, this book will be on my shopping list for next month. The second chapter is entitled "Ancel Keys, Saturated Fats and Cholesterol". That guy seems to crop up in every book I've been reading recently!

 

[truth seeker]

I continue on the Quest for the Holy Grail Chop! I can find nothing like this picture. This is actually from a pasture-fed pig??

I saw some just like this as well last Sunday at the farmer's market. Believe it or not, they do exist! :)

 

[luke wilson]

The pork I buy is always with the trim and recently I buy flank roast or shoulder, it as more fat than chop.

Do your porc chops, the roast or shoulder look like this, when you see the amount of fat compared to the amount of meat?

If not, then they are not fatty enough. Tip: you can add butter, lard, ghee, etc.!

"The List" really has performed a miracle in Atreides, and for all of us here too even if we can add only a few things extra once in a while. I hope it really helps you too. It seems that you have years and years of a bad diet, even if you thought (like all of us) that you were eating healthy foods before. Talk about brainwashing and losing your "gut feeling" about what is good and bad for your health!

Wow I have to say that pork chop looks mightily delicious...

 

[Gwenllian]

I recently downloaded a trial version on kindle of "Eat Like an Indian - The Real Paleo Diet" by Leon Worth. <snip>

It's no wonder the PTB wanted to wipe out the Native Americans before they started to share their knowledge with the Whiteman. Anyway, this book will be on my shopping list for next month. The second chapter is entitled "Ancel Keys, Saturated Fats and Cholesterol". That guy seems to crop up in every book I've been reading recently!

These are great quotes, but I feel a lot of sadness reading them.
I am proud of the old knowledge and I am relieved to hear that it has somehow survived, although maybe in a diluted form? I do not know.
I have always felt a great connection to the Indians. Maybe because of their knowledge?


ADMIN note: snipped the quote of entire post.

 

[Gwenllian]

What would be better to embark on first? The (in my case) 9 Bread Units diet/lifestyle or the UltraMind diet?

Well, I can only tell you my personal experiences of what worked, if you are having trouble starting out, reducing vegetable matter slowly might be a good way. I never like to look at it in terms of carbs, instead I think of it as reducing vegetable and protein matter and increasing fat. Counting carbs is a fools errand, they are concealed in everything and are everywhere, it's just so tiring, and also, is something easy to forget, especially when you face the rather compulsive nature of eating and snacking.

For instance, I often found myself half-way through a snack before even realizing that I was eating at all. I would be thinking of something else, a work problem or something, and just reach out and start snacking on something. There would be a chocolate bar left around and I would just break off a piece and start munching it.

So this was one of the problems I had to fix and I realized essentially that the no-carb/low-card idea wasn't a strong enough "thing" in my mind. It was too logical, and it was pretty easy to usurp if some part of me wanted to snack for comfort, or due to nervousness.

Also there's the idea that you can eat "kinda" healthy. But like has been said, that's like being "kinda" pregnant, you either are, or you aren't.

My personal, and unprofessional, opinion is: Eat only pork chops, fattiest you can find, and put some butter on them to make them fattier.

I am all about the simple solution, forget about the details and the reasons because in the end, your mind is really good at distracting you with minutiae and rationalization. With The List, you never ask: What can I eat? That's answered, eat pork chops.

But when you first start out, if you're a serious carb addict, it might be a good idea to just cut back on them, do it in stages. Cut out all grains first of all, then maybe stick to one or two safe veggies, like Green Beans, but don't boil or steam them, fry them with lard, and drown them in butter.

I personally favor an elimination diet, get rid of everything and find the 1 food you respond well to and stick to it. Variety be damned. So things that I did early on were eating lots of veal and veal soups. Usually you get fattier veal when you get the stew variety and it's usually tender enough to just fry up, or boil. Eat the fat, drink the broth, it's pretty soft on the stomach. Try to avoid all spices though, only use salt.

Those are just my two cents, but for specifics on technical scientific stuff, Ailen, Psyche and L have the best advice to give.

Thank you for this, Atreides, I am glad to hear that you are doing so much better.

What I like about your list is that it makes life so much simpler. Imagine doing the shopping! And the cooking. It makes life so much easier. No more worries about recipes and what you have to eat every day. Great.
Also, I have done some (poor) maths and I think that it might even be cheaper to eat only meat? No more expensive coffee, beer, sugar, quinoa, buckwheat, Basmati rice, veggies and fruits. The prices of all these products have gone through the roof this past year.

I am just wondering whether I will be able to find the right pork here in The Netherlands. We have our pig hotels (these large pig factories) over here and little space.

My partner came home last year with pork that had lived his life free in Eastern Germany. Some of the older East Germans still slaughter and make their own meat and lard. So he came home with a car load of sausage, chops, blood sausage (English?). I have never tasted anything that good. Way much tastier than the organic meat I get here.

He keeps telling me how everything changed after the fall of the Berlin Wall. How food had tasted beforehand and how it changed into factory stuff. What a loss.

I was disgusted at first by all these boxes of lard in his fridge, but now I have confiscated them all. ;) Home-made and all!