"Life Without Bread"

[cagoule]

Thank you Laura! If it is okay and not too much to ask Hesperides I would prefer the actual book as I do not like reading ebooks on the computer. I would be more than happy to pay for the postage too, it is very kind of you to offer me this! I will also make a donation to the FOTCM or SOTT as a gesture if you're happy for me to do so!

 

[hesperides]

Cagoule, I´ve already posted to Laura my email. Nevertheless, I see you have already 51 posts now. So I think you should have access to my email now. Could you have a try and see if it works?

 

[Laura]

Cagoule, I´ve already posted to Laura my email. Nevertheless, I see you have already 51 posts now. So I think you should have access to my email now. Could you have a try and see if it works?

I never received an email from you though I did get Cagoule's shipping details yesterday. I've just used your forum email and sent it on. Hope that's the right one.

 

[hesperides]

Cagoule, Laura already sent to me your address and tomorrow morning I´ll post PBPM to you. Wish you enjoy it and learn a lot as I do right now.

I have only read 4 chapters and the content plus Nora´s straight and explicit way of unravelling medical contradictions and lies are particularly impacting me. And this is also because I realize now it has taken me two years to seriously start thinking I could well be the one suffering of silent Candida, which will further show up or not with the low carb/high fat diet I´m on - the good side of it is I don´t have to start the elimination protocol again, unless I wish starving :P

 

[cagoule]

Thank you Laura and Hesperides!

Hopefully my shipping address was for Granada, Spain! I very much look forward to receiving it, I started my Paleo diet today with a lovely pan-fried chicken leg with sweet potatoe mash... I very much look forward to reading more information and hope that it can help me sort myself out! I'm definitely on the right path now so thank you again for the kind offer of the book! You have definitely helped me, I'm a student here so unfortunately do not have much money for books and can't stress how grateful I am :) THANK YOU! P.S. I have just sent a donation via paypal to the cause!

 

[Thomas Alan]

I have been adding more meat, fat and protein and reducing carbs for some time now. I am probably at about 50g carbs a day, I am proceeding slowly in reducing carbs do mostly to my age.

I must say I feel much better on the higher fat. And I love the foods. Marbled steaks, bacon, Chicken fried in coconut oil with fat and all. I feel very satisfied after such meal.

But I keep loosing weight, and it is beginning to scare me. I am 6'0" and last check weight was 120 pds! I've lost maybe 20 pds over the past year. I was already thin.

My physical strength hasn't diminished much if at all and I feel good most of the time. But, Holy Cats, even my clothes don't fit well anymore.

I did some research on supplements that are helpful in building muscle mass. Creatine, branched chain amino acids and L-glutimine were the ones most suggested. I have been taking those for a week or so. They make me feel better, though my body took a couple of days to used to them.

I thought about going to my doctor about this. I'm concerned that he might put me in the hospital for all kinds of tests. Plus the doctors wouldn't approve of my dietary choices. I'm sure that they would insist on more fruits and vegetables etc.

Mac

 

[RedFox]

Hi Mac
I've recently gained some weight (the last week or so)....the only major changes have been more exercise, lots of cold meats (and cold fat), but also a slight reduction in the amount of protein I'm eating.
Also, I've added back milk thistle, and have been having a small amount of vitamin C and NAC, all of which are support for the liver - I think that supporting the liver (and not taxing it with too much protein/not enough carbs) may be important for thin people.

So for skinnies, exercise that involves some weight is good it seems, also the change in the weather to colder has caused me to start putting on a small layer of fat it seems!

The best advice though is to make sure you don't go hungry, and eat as much as you need. Having some buckwheat pancakes every day and some green vegetables occasionally seems to suit me best. Snacking on things like pork crackling/scratching (crispy pork rind) if I'm hungry between meals.

 

[Gertrudes]

I just came across a quote in "The art and science of low carbohydrate living" book that may explain the problems some of us had with lowering protein intake:

Current guidelines recommend 0.8grams/day of protein per kilogram of body weight for adults, with more for children, adolescents, and pregnant women.
(snip)
Another factor known to influence our body's need for protein is the mix of carbohydrate and fat that provides most of the energy in our diet. However, the magnitude of this factor is very dependent on timing. In short term studies, taking away dietary carbohydrate and replacing it with fat reduces our body's efficiency in using protein. Put another way, when you first take away dietary carbs, you need more protein to maintain muscle and other protein-containing tissues. But when you observe a human over a number of weeks of adaptation to a low, carbohydrate diet most of this initial inefficiency in protein use goes away. Thus, once you are keto-adapted, your body's need for protein isn't much higher than during a "balanced diet". This is a key fact in our understanding that low carbohydrate diets used in the long term do not need to be particularly high in protein

There's more about protein in this section of the book, but I found this excerpt to be very relevant to what has been discussed a few pages back.

 

[Gertrudes]

But I keep loosing weight, and it is beginning to scare me.

Hi Mac, one of the things that occurred to me is how physical exercise, already mentioned by Redfox, can help prevent loosing weight. Funny how some of us use it to loose weight, and others to gain. But it tends to work like that, the right amount of exercise can be a potent contributing factor in helping your body balance itself weight wise and keep a natural tone.

 

[Psalehesost]

I think that supporting the liver (and not taxing it with too much protein/not enough carbs) may be important for thin people. [...] The best advice though is to make sure you don't go hungry, and eat as much as you need. Having some buckwheat pancakes every day and some green vegetables occasionally seems to suit me best. Snacking on things like pork crackling/scratching (crispy pork rind) if I'm hungry between meals.

Being quite skinny and thinking from prior experience that it'd increase my weight a bit if carbs were to be upped a bit, I just tried as an experiment adding some carbs to a meal (adding a bit of potato starch to the ground meat - buckwheat is completely out for me as it causes a low-level inflammation). But doing so for just a meal, my brain is now (it happened fast!) foggier - feels like the last time, now about a year ago, I drank some soda. For me, I guess sticking to purely meat and fat is best - I'm sure replacing some meat with a small amount of carbs would help with weight gain, but having my head as clear as possible is more important.

Maybe I should look into getting much larger quantities of fat - it's simply been very hard to find here (quality lard, lamb or beef fat - as too much of other fats tried has a clear negative impact; so I pretty much constantly balance the other options, including butter, to not exceed what works "well enough" with them), but it might still be possible - I have one option to look at tomorrow for a possible place to get it, seeing if one shop can bring it in.

EDIT: And more exercise, as you mentioned - that is one option to look into!

 

[Thomas Alan]

So for skinnies, exercise that involves some weight is good it seems, also the change in the weather to colder has caused me to start putting on a small layer of fat it seems!

The best advice though is to make sure you don't go hungry, and eat as much as you need. Having some buckwheat pancakes every day and some green vegetables occasionally seems to suit me best. Snacking on things like pork crackling/scratching (crispy pork rind) if I'm hungry between meals.

Hi, Redfox:

Enough exercise is not a problem with me. The job I have involves lifting heavy boxes, walking concrete floors all day. It really wears me down. I have been looking for other work but not luck so far.

I eat enough, I guess, at least I feel full after meals and rarely feel the need for snacks. Becoming so thin has got me worried. I'm 65 so it occurred to me that this a physical wasting that some experience with aging. I don't really think so, though. In general I feel better and am clearer headed than before I began increasing meats and reducing carbs.

But I keep loosing weight, and it is beginning to scare me.

Hi Mac, one of the things that occurred to me is how physical exercise, already mentioned by Redfox, can help prevent loosing weight. Funny how some of us use it to loose weight, and others to gain. But it tends to work like that, the right amount of exercise can be a potent contributing factor in helping your body balance itself weight wise and keep a natural tone.

Hi, Gertrudes:

The key here is probably the right kind of exercise in the right amounts. The job I have wears me out. That isn't healthy exercise. And being exposed to toxins both physical and psychological doesn't help.

Mac

 

[RedFox]

Enough exercise is not a problem with me. The job I have involves lifting heavy boxes, walking concrete floors all day. It really wears me down. I have been looking for other work but not luck so far.

I had problems at the beginning of these changes at working out if I was full/eating enough (seems I've had them for years)....so it may be worth experimenting with eating more fat (as you are using a lot of energy in the day) - and perhaps even more protein (as you need it for your muscles) and perhaps even more carbohydrates (although keeping it under 100g) until you stop the weight loss....
This is what I'd consider doing. My life style is quiet sedentary, so for me exercise has helped.

If you are unable to eat more, perhaps some digestive support (ox bile/HCI) would help. Focusing on gut healing (l-glutamine) and liver support (milk thistle/nac/vitamin c) may also be something to consider/look into.

Inflammatory foods also have the effect of making me loose weight (nuts, eggs, butter, peas/beans, some fibre/vegetables....or so it seems). Presumably they inflame my intestines and stop me absorbing nutrients.

Lastly, are you drinking enough water daily? Weight loss can occur through dehydration - it is very serious when it does.

 

[Danse la vie]

So for skinnies, exercise that involves some weight is good it seems, also the change in the weather to colder has caused me to start putting on a small layer of fat it seems!

The best advice though is to make sure you don't go hungry, and eat as much as you need. Having some buckwheat pancakes every day and some green vegetables occasionally seems to suit me best. Snacking on things like pork crackling/scratching (crispy pork rind) if I'm hungry between meals.

Hi, Redfox:

Enough exercise is not a problem with me. The job I have involves lifting heavy boxes, walking concrete floors all day. It really wears me down. I have been looking for other work but not luck so far.

I eat enough, I guess, at least I feel full after meals and rarely feel the need for snacks. Becoming so thin has got me worried. I'm 65 so it occurred to me that this a physical wasting that some experience with aging. I don't really think so, though. In general I feel better and am clearer headed than before I began increasing meats and reducing carbs.

But I keep loosing weight, and it is beginning to scare me.

Hi Mac, one of the things that occurred to me is how physical exercise, already mentioned by Redfox, can help prevent loosing weight. Funny how some of us use it to loose weight, and others to gain. But it tends to work like that, the right amount of exercise can be a potent contributing factor in helping your body balance itself weight wise and keep a natural tone.

Hi, Gertrudes:

The key here is probably the right kind of exercise in the right amounts. The job I have wears me out. That isn't healthy exercise. And being exposed to toxins both physical and psychological doesn't help.

Mac

Mac,
I want to tell you some of the things I reported to Psyche in Barcelona. I have the same diet as Redfox I began as soon as it came out on the forum (except that i'm not hungry between meals and eat rather beef cracklings, the available pork being partly cereal -triticale- fed).
But before the fat diet, I hat trouble loosing weight all the time and the only remedy I knew each time I reached 46 kg for 1.66 meter was to eat potatoes with as much butter on each slice as the potatoe volume. I ate buckweat crepes with butter all my life (being french), and I have been a dancer all my life, so I can tell even healthy exercice did not help.
What helped ? Psyche's IODINE research thread. The moment I began putting transdermal iodine, the worry with the weight loss was over, completely. My muscles began to rebuild, and the osteopath told me amazed it was no more the same body he was working on. I was still very thin, but no more skinny. I'm soon 60 years old.
Then when the fat diet began my whole body rebuilt. I'm normal now. Like Redfox I've seen since one month a fat layer coming all over my body... naturally preparing for the winter fasting I guess.

Now dear Redfox,
The Iodine connection links to your "Cold to the bone thread" too. I was also cold to the bones, like my fingers and feet bones were literally freezing, in a horrible pain, while others were out without gloves and at ease. I wondered how I would manage to survive the first colds of the ice age.
Five minutes after putting transdermal iodine on my legs or buttocks, the cold to the bone sensation was over, completely. And a warmth wave overwhelmed my whole body. I promised Psyche I will report this in the corresponding threads, I'll do asap.

I still remember the cute lie you told me to share your strawberry sorbet... Prior to Iodine and Fat diet, I could never eat ice cream (or just have ice cubes in a water glass), not only my teeth would have ached, I would also be cold and shake in the middle of the hot summer, and feel exhausted.

Danse la vie

 

[Alada]

Enough exercise is not a problem with me. The job I have involves lifting heavy boxes, walking concrete floors all day. It really wears me down. I have been looking for other work but not luck so far.

I had problems at the beginning of these changes at working out if I was full/eating enough (seems I've had them for years)....so it may be worth experimenting with eating more fat (as you are using a lot of energy in the day) - and perhaps even more protein (as you need it for your muscles) and perhaps even more carbohydrates (although keeping it under 100g) until you stop the weight loss....
This is what I'd consider doing. My life style is quiet sedentary, so for me exercise has helped.

I think keeping the carb intake under 72g is recommended as the upper limit if you want to stay in ketosis, fat burning mode. If you're feeling tired at points during the day, try stretching your carb intake over the full day, so say and 8 hour working day would give you 9g an hour to mix up however you need. I tend to have a few buckwheat crackers with quite a lot of lard and/or butter on top to keep me going.

At the start I found that I was losing weight, but over the months it has all come back and I seems to have filled out and reached weight that is now more or less stable. I think we really have to up the fat intake, takes a while to get used to that though and the level you need to consume as a matter of course. So before we get the taste for it looks like we may tend to burn body mass/fat to make up the deficit.

I'm wondering too if the fat intake will need to go up again through the winter. I tend to notice the cold more on low carb, the 'heat' from a meal doesn't seem to stick with you as long. Will have to experiment with that.

 

[mcb]

...I think keeping the carb intake under 72g is recommended as the upper limit if you want to stay in ketosis, fat burning mode. If you're feeling tired at points during the day, try stretching your carb intake over the full day, so say and 8 hour working day would give you 9g an hour to mix up however you need. I tend to have a few buckwheat crackers with quite a lot of lard and/or butter on top to keep me going...

The New Atkins book describes a process for finding how many daily grams of carbohydrate you personally can consume and remain in lipolysis (A.K.A. "nutritional ketosis"). 72g is an arbitrary number that might work for many people.