"Life Without Bread"

[seek10]

Their website is: http://whitethunderorganics.com. I found them in the latest Weston Price Journal. The way they handle orders is unique. They take care of the shipping costs and use one of their (expensive) coolers. When you get the order, you drop a check in the cooler and send it back (pre-paid). We just ordered a bunch, so I'll have to report back on the quality - but I have little doubt it will be great. They also have pastured chicken and beef. Large orders could be shared with family/friends or other members nearby.

When talking with the owner, I asked about the pork chops. She said that they leave a lot of fat on and the chops also contain part of the tenderloin!

I got a block from Avast virus software when trying to go to their website. Did anyone else have this problem? Avast doesn't seem to have a way to bypass this block, ie, mark it safe. Does anyone know a way around it?

The message was "HTML: Script-inf"

If you are sure about something, then you can disable Avast temporarily by right-clicking on the little Avast icon in the lower right corner of your screen. On the menu, there is an option called "avast! shields control", and you can choose a block of time in which Avast's real-time protections are turned off for a little while.

Be careful with this website. My machine got all sorts of problems after I went to that site and I ended up buying Mcafee software ( from trial version after 2 years ) and it is still trying to fix it. some issues are Hard disk not accessible, not detectable c:\sys32 files corrupted etc. ( vista).

 

[Palinurus]

Be careful with this website. My machine got all sorts of problems after I went to that site and I ended up buying Mcafee software ( from trial version after 2 years ) and it is still trying to fix it. some issues are Hard disk not accessible, not detectable c:\sys32 files corrupted etc. ( vista).

Thank you for reporting. I have to second that. The day after my (failed) contact with this website I found out that my Email program (Outlook Express) had somehow been tampered with - in so far as to completely reorganise my IN box which suddenly was sorted by sendername in stead of the usual ordering by date received. I had to manually restore the sequence I'm accustomed to. Luckily nothing appears to be missing or malfunctioning but I concur wholeheartily with the cited warning off.

 

[LQB]

Be careful with this website. My machine got all sorts of problems after I went to that site and I ended up buying Mcafee software ( from trial version after 2 years ) and it is still trying to fix it. some issues are Hard disk not accessible, not detectable c:\sys32 files corrupted etc. ( vista).

Thank you for reporting. I have to second that. The day after my (failed) contact with this website I found out that my Email program (Outlook Express) had somehow been tampered with - in so far as to completely reorganise my IN box which suddenly was sorted by sendername in stead of the usual ordering by date received. I had to manually restore the sequence I'm accustomed to. Luckily nothing appears to be missing or malfunctioning but I concur wholeheartily with the cited warning off.

Sorry for the website problems. I had no issues with it before the initial post (other than that it didn't look finished). I suggest that if anyone is interested in ordering, call them.


Edit: I have a call in to them to see what might be going on.

 

[Danse la vie]

The reason I like the idea of salt had to with a cd that I listened to. A dentist explained how you could re-mineralise your teeth by rinsing water that is as hot as you can possibly stand with as much salt in it as much as you can stand. However, I think that if you have amalgam fillings this could be a problem. But I prefer clay instead.

Why instead ? Salt is a medicine as old as clay I believe. Like clay it pulls nasty stuff out of body tissue, and natural salt reinforces the action of clay in the poultice (not on open wounds: it burns, like nigari). I didn’t, but many people use salt for the gums.
So I add salt in poultices when necessary but just wanted to tell you to caution with salt if used as part of toothpaste, as it contains grains that must be eliminated to avoid damaging the enamel.

There’s more news with the fat diet from me, apart from the general body-mind changes:
There was a brown spot on my elbows where the skin was like coarse sand paper. Nothing helped to smooth it. Then the fat diet proved to be the real skin cream.

Due to surgery performed by those who won’t be indicted of being a cult, my eyes have been very damaged and I completely lost sight in one eye. I found critical help in Psyche’s precious Iodine research thread (I’ll go and write about asap). But despite this and the clay, the blind eye began to shrink more and more, and it looked like much trouble ahead, again.
The fat diet came before it was too late. Within one month my eye “grew” again its size of before.
I am grateful to Laura, Psyche and Atreides (!) that they found and shared it. In retrospect I feel very lucky that I grew up in France where we commonly ate delicious organ meat (until “they” invented the mad cow disease to suppress our habits) and fish including the heads and bones (until “they” poured nuclear waste around), and never served meat nor soup without a good piece of fresh butter or cream on it, whatever the diet gurus eventually began to tale.
I never stopped the butter even after stopping the sacred cheese.
The bloodtype diet did not say anything to me either.

Have you ever used clay for your hair?

Yes I use clay/oils/essential oils for my hair, clay for my head too, and clay with magnesium oil but perhaps there is another thread more appropriate for the subject, so that the moderators are not obliged to do the sorting out themselves ?

You are more and more confident using clay, that sounds good Mariama !
Danse la vie

 

[Danse la vie]

One note of caution, you need strong teeth for these. Which brings up an interesting point.....I found eating them really easy yet my parents struggled so it seems the paleo diet is really good at strengthening teeth.

Same with the bits from melted beef tallow. Before, one would have never thought my teeth would cope with them. I lost bits of teeth while eating…

 

[cubbex]

Hi. I want to comment that now that I live with my mother my emotional state has changed along my diet, I don't follow a paleolithic diet because my mom (yes mommy) says I'm crazy and what's important is that I fill my stomach, but more or less I've formed an idea about which foods serve better as fuel, and which not, so I just try to eat just meat, some veggies and some fruits. Right now with the university I'm not able to change our style of life, but as I said, I tried, my mother now doesn't drink to much coffee, doesn't eat soya and products made with it, but she has some bat habits eating junk food, and I've seen that your surroundings have an effect on the person, so I kinda got the habit of eating junk food sometimes, infrequently.

But the good part of all this is that I have not more depression as before, or profound sadness, I feel more stable than before that I think it's so good to be true, the regular problems I think are made because of the junk food and some food made from corn, is my usual internal angry behavior, not in violence, the typical angriness you feel inside but you know it's not needed to waste your energy. Step by step, and I can say that your diet is really important. The only problems I had are, I think, those known like constipation at the beginning, and I was a little chubby and I started to get fat, but I think it's related to the junk food, so I began to do some exercise and maybe thanks to the protein from the meat I got big muscles.

Now, eating meat was not different than before, the difference of course is the type of meat we eat, is not from the supermarket. All the food we eat comes from local stores that got the food from some ranches, what I don't know is how those ranches feed their cattle. Sometimes we eat fish by the way.

So this is my report people :P I didn't know where to put my post so I thought this was a good thread for it. I'm not fan of eating cookies, cakes, or whatever made from bread.

 

[Gwenllian]

Thank you for your replies. :D

I have started reading PBPM and find it even more interesting than Life without Bread.

I think it is important to remember that as you said, Oxajil, we all share a common ancestor.

 

[Gwenllian]

Even with the increase in plant foods, until now cultures retained their appreciation for high-quality foods -- particularly organ meats -- of the sort that fueled human evolution in the first place. With that element disappearing (it's all but gone here in the US with the heavy reliance on toxic processed foods by much of the population), humanity seems (to me) to be on the way out too.

One book I read recently, The End of Food by Paul Roberts, highlighted an interesting scenario, though I don't believe the author was fully aware of the implications. The profit/production-driven modern global food system is highly vulnerable to unexpected events, such as bad weather and outbreaks of disease in crops and animals. It is entirely likely that the system will fail at some point, and this could leave us with a severe shortage of (grain-fed) meat and the prospect that vegetarianism (and grains in particular) would again be offered as a "solution."

This is very disturbing, but then again, when crops fail, then vegetarianism is not an option, either.

I am wondering if we should start keeping our own animals again. And whether that would help?

 

[Gwenllian]

There’s more news with the fat diet from me, apart from the general body-mind changes:
There was a brown spot on my elbows where the skin was like coarse sand paper. Nothing helped to smooth it. Then the fat diet proved to be the real skin cream.

Due to surgery performed by those who won’t be indicted of being a cult, my eyes have been very damaged and I completely lost sight in one eye. I found critical help in Psyche’s precious Iodine research thread (I’ll go and write about asap). But despite this and the clay, the blind eye began to shrink more and more, and it looked like much trouble ahead, again.
The fat diet came before it was too late. Within one month my eye “grew” again its size of before.
I am grateful to Laura, Psyche and Atreides (!) that they found and shared it. In retrospect I feel very lucky that I grew up in France where we commonly ate delicious organ meat (until “they” invented the mad cow disease to suppress our habits) and fish including the heads and bones (until “they” poured nuclear waste around), and never served meat nor soup without a good piece of fresh butter or cream on it, whatever the diet gurus eventually began to tale.
I never stopped the butter even after stopping the sacred cheese.
The bloodtype diet did not say anything to me either.

I am sorry to hear about your eye. That must have been very hard for you.
I am so glad to hear that you made the transition in time. It's amazing that fat has such an impact on our health and in your case that your eye started growing again, so to speak.
And you now have smooth skin. :D
And I will start serving cream or butter together with soup and meat. What a great idea. I love French cooking. ;)

Why instead ? Salt is a medicine as old as clay I believe. Like clay it pulls nasty stuff out of body tissue, and natural salt reinforces the action of clay in the poultice (not on open wounds: it burns, like nigari). I didn’t, but many people use salt for the gums.
So I add salt in poultices when necessary but just wanted to tell you to caution with salt if used as part of toothpaste, as it contains grains that must be eliminated to avoid damaging the enamel.

Yes I use clay/oils/essential oils for my hair, clay for my head too, and clay with magnesium oil but perhaps there is another thread more appropriate for the subject, so that the moderators are not obliged to do the sorting out themselves ?

Yes, you are right. I will do a quick search to see if I have to start a new thread or not.

 

[Gwenllian]

In retrospect I feel very lucky that I grew up in France where we commonly ate delicious organ meat (until “they” invented the mad cow disease to suppress our habits) and fish including the heads and bones (until “they” poured nuclear waste around), and never served meat nor soup without a good piece of fresh butter or cream on it, whatever the diet gurus eventually began to tale.
I never stopped the butter even after stopping the sacred cheese.
The bloodtype diet did not say anything to me either.

Come to think of it. When I was young I often ate liver (thin slices of it) on my bread. I loved it. We still eat 'leverworst' over here, which basically looks like a sausage, made of liver. It is delicious. You slice it up and eat it on a sandwich, too.
And luckily, I also live in a country where delicious butter can be found (Holland). And cream. And goat cheese.
A smiley would be nice now, licking its lips. ;)

 

[Oxajil]

Come to think of it. When I was young I often ate liver (thin slices of it) on my bread. I loved it. We still eat 'leverworst' over here, which basically looks like a sausage, made of liver. It is delicious. You slice it up and eat it on a sandwich, too.
And luckily, I also live in a country where delicious butter can be found (Holland). And cream. And goat cheese.
A smiley would be nice now, licking its lips. ;)

It's just unfortunate that they put all kinds of spices in the 'leverworst' which can be inflammatory, but I guess it differs per butcher what they put in it. :)

 

[Gwenllian]

Hi,

I was wondering. Is a high fat, somewhat high protein, low carb diet suitable for everybody?
Do different cultures have a different constitution?
What strikes me (and I admit I am fairly sensitive that way) is that books like Life without Bread and Primal Body, Primal Mind were written by white people. Was their research based on a cross-cultural population? (I haven't read PBPM yet.) I suspect that Lutz's research in Austria involved (a majority of) white people.
I myself am white, but have friends (one is from Indonesia) that are not. Is there any difference at all?
I have read a bit fairly quickly about the blood type diet, but was wondering the same thing. Was the research based on a cross-cultural population or does there need to be?

I have found that most white people that I know (myself included) use a white frame of reference. I may be wrong. Just my two thoughts.

I don't think there's any real genetic differences between whites and blacks as your question might suggest. Black people are genetically closer to Europeans than either are to Asians.

Interesting.
Yes, I can see why my question might suggest that. This kind of situation occurs when I do not listen to myself, but only to others.
I discussed Life without bread with a friend of mine and she did not agree with the message without her even having read the book. Instead, she thinks that different cultures have different constitutions. As I (most of the time) assume that others know better than I do I asked you all for your opinion.
But I wanted to give myself a bit of time to think for myself without anybody's input and see where that would lead me. So I did not log onto the forum and started reading PBPM. And so I came to the same conclusion, what Gertrudes and Oxajil already stated, that we are all of the same ancestral family.
Looking back, the reaction of my friend is disappointing. She simply did not want to hear the message. And I was not sharp enough to come up with counterarguments. And I allowed myself to be distracted. I think her question was a digression on the main topic (meat and fat) and I did not see it.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Even with the increase in plant foods, until now cultures retained their appreciation for high-quality foods -- particularly organ meats -- of the sort that fueled human evolution in the first place. With that element disappearing (it's all but gone here in the US with the heavy reliance on toxic processed foods by much of the population), humanity seems (to me) to be on the way out too.

One book I read recently, The End of Food by Paul Roberts, highlighted an interesting scenario, though I don't believe the author was fully aware of the implications. The profit/production-driven modern global food system is highly vulnerable to unexpected events, such as bad weather and outbreaks of disease in crops and animals. It is entirely likely that the system will fail at some point, and this could leave us with a severe shortage of (grain-fed) meat and the prospect that vegetarianism (and grains in particular) would again be offered as a "solution."

This is very disturbing, but then again, when crops fail, then vegetarianism is not an option, either.

I am wondering if we should start keeping our own animals again. And whether that would help?

Well, according to the evidence from real research all indications point to a total ecological collapse very soon -- "The Sixth Extinction" that would include humans (or most of the human population) and many, many other species -- it's been in the works for a while, it's already happening. The ability of the planet and Mother Nature to sustain life here will eventually be restored after what's threatening the life sustaining system is removed. Nature always puts everything back into balance and life/living things continue to exist as a result. We'll just have to wait and see how everything pans out, but everything's been pointing to a major extinction event.

In retrospect I feel very lucky that I grew up in France where we commonly ate delicious organ meat (until “they” invented the mad cow disease to suppress our habits) and fish including the heads and bones (until “they” poured nuclear waste around), and never served meat nor soup without a good piece of fresh butter or cream on it, whatever the diet gurus eventually began to tale.
I never stopped the butter even after stopping the sacred cheese.
The bloodtype diet did not say anything to me either.

Come to think of it. When I was young I often ate liver (thin slices of it) on my bread. I loved it. We still eat 'leverworst' over here, which basically looks like a sausage, made of liver. It is delicious. You slice it up and eat it on a sandwich, too.
And luckily, I also live in a country where delicious butter can be found (Holland). And cream. And goat cheese.
A smiley would be nice now, licking its lips. ;)

Just want to mention, if you want to have an optimal diet, i.e. high animal fat/low carb, you should first eliminate all gluten and casein (dairy) and then pretty much all grains first. This should be done before attempting to transition to the high fat/low carb keto diet. These are even more troublesome than any spices in liverwurst being inflammatory as mentioned by Oxajil. You may already know this, but just making sure.

Hi,

I was wondering. Is a high fat, somewhat high protein, low carb diet suitable for everybody?
Do different cultures have a different constitution?
What strikes me (and I admit I am fairly sensitive that way) is that books like Life without Bread and Primal Body, Primal Mind were written by white people. Was their research based on a cross-cultural population? (I haven't read PBPM yet.) I suspect that Lutz's research in Austria involved (a majority of) white people.
I myself am white, but have friends (one is from Indonesia) that are not. Is there any difference at all?
I have read a bit fairly quickly about the blood type diet, but was wondering the same thing. Was the research based on a cross-cultural population or does there need to be?

I have found that most white people that I know (myself included) use a white frame of reference. I may be wrong. Just my two thoughts.

I don't think there's any real genetic differences between whites and blacks as your question might suggest. Black people are genetically closer to Europeans than either are to Asians.

Interesting.
Yes, I can see why my question might suggest that. This kind of situation occurs when I do not listen to myself, but only to others.
I discussed Life without bread with a friend of mine and she did not agree with the message without her even having read the book. Instead, she thinks that different cultures have different constitutions. As I (most of the time) assume that others know better than I do I asked you all for your opinion.
But I wanted to give myself a bit of time to think for myself without anybody's input and see where that would lead me. So I did not log onto the forum and started reading PBPM. And so I came to the same conclusion, what Gertrudes and Oxajil already stated, that we are all of the same ancestral family.
Looking back, the reaction of my friend is disappointing. She simply did not want to hear the message. And I was not sharp enough to come up with counterarguments. And I allowed myself to be distracted. I think her question was a digression on the main topic (meat and fat) and I did not see it.

Well it's not your place to come up with counterarguments if your friend doesn't want to here what you're offering. If they don't ask for it/are not open to it, whether diet related or any other information, they have every right to refuse to know the truth. The OVERWHELMING majority of people DON'T WANT to know the truth about just about anything. That's why external consideration, strategic enclosure, and free will are discussed so much on these forums. With practice, we become better at discerning who is really asking and who's not, and give to/help those who are sincerely asking and leave everyone else alone to do what they want.

 

[Danse la vie]

[I am sorry to hear about your eye. That must have been very hard for you.
I am so glad to hear that you made the transition in time.

Yes I use clay/oils/essential oils for my hair, (...)

Yes, you are right. I will do a quick search to see if I have to start a new thread or not.

Mariama, I take your kindness with me. Other difficulties, and also other discoveries made the thing with my eyes appear almost casual, though. No more being able to read normally is the hardest.
Regarding the clay I will look for your post later, because now I probably won't be able to make posts longer than one line during the next 8 days
Danse la vie

 

[LQB]

Be careful with this website. My machine got all sorts of problems after I went to that site and I ended up buying Mcafee software ( from trial version after 2 years ) and it is still trying to fix it. some issues are Hard disk not accessible, not detectable c:\sys32 files corrupted etc. ( vista).

Thank you for reporting. I have to second that. The day after my (failed) contact with this website I found out that my Email program (Outlook Express) had somehow been tampered with - in so far as to completely reorganise my IN box which suddenly was sorted by sendername in stead of the usual ordering by date received. I had to manually restore the sequence I'm accustomed to. Luckily nothing appears to be missing or malfunctioning but I concur wholeheartily with the cited warning off.

Sorry for the website problems. I had no issues with it before the initial post (other than that it didn't look finished). I suggest that if anyone is interested in ordering, call them.


Edit: I have a call in to them to see what might be going on.

I talked to the owners of White Thunder Organics this morning and they are aware of the website problems. Apparently their web contractor has not been responsive and is responsible for its current state (even they cannot gain controlled access). They also feel pretty bad about loss of sales due to the web problems. Someone else informed them that malware flags went up when they tried to access it. They are working the problem - but not from a very strong position it seems.

I'll report back what we find the quality of the pork to be.