"Life Without Bread"

[Meager1]

then, the fifth day in the late afternoon it felt like I was on rocket fuel!
This is the sixth day and I don't even know what to do with this much energy - it is that noticeable!

It's really astonishing - just bursting with energy, my mind is clear and quick and I think my vision is even clearer - it's bizarre! So - hang in there and do NOT give in to those sweet cravings! It only took me four days of extreme low carbs (of course this was after years on the diet, following the forum threads as we all went along experimenting) - but once I went really low carb, only four and a half days or so, then - a pronounced shift.

Isn`t it wonderful to feel so good!

I`m staying with very low carbs for a few more days, then I`ll try adding different items to my diet to see if there is any change.
Glad to hear your feeling the benefits, it seems to only get better the longer you stick with it!

 

[anart]

But it kind of switched when I eliminated carbs completely or almost completely (5 carbs a day) for several days. It coincided with my period, so this could be the main contributor to the fatigue (I even lack breath after climbing stairs on the way home!) and fogginess, not to mentioned bleak and morose thoughts, and depression. Even don't have enough energy to be pissed off properly. ;) Hope it will improve eventually. Now increased the carbs till maybe 10-12 tops, but still have fatigue.

I know each body is different, but if you're still fatigued, it was likely not time to increase carbs. I literally had zero carbs for three out of four days, then just under 15 carbs, then zero carbs again and then the energy boost. This was after a few weeks of fairly low carbs to begin with (under 100). I might have ten carbs later today. I mean my meals were nothing but pork - each meal, that's it and stevia to sweeten my vitamin C water with salt. So - it could be that you never really switched to burning fat? I don't know. Did you ever have really bad breath - ick - that's a sure sign. But, honestly, the energy boost is unmistakable. I would not have believed it if I didn't feel it.

Psyche would know better, but if you still have the fatigue, I'm wondering if you're just not burning fat yet? Are you taking potassium, lots of salt, lots of water? Sorry I'm not more help.

 

[Keit]

I know each body is different, but if you're still fatigued, it was likely not time to increase carbs. I literally had zero carbs for three out of four days, then just under 15 carbs, then zero carbs again and then the energy boost. This was after a few weeks of fairly low carbs to begin with (under 100). I might have ten carbs later today. I mean my meals were nothing but pork - each meal, that's it and stevia to sweeten my vitamin C water with salt. So - it could be that you never really switched to burning fat? I don't know.

Don't know either. After stopping eating sweet potatoes (and don't think it exceeded 100 carbs) had at least 3 days for sure of zero carbs and eating only pork and pork fat (and then at the beginning still had pretty high energy), then couple of days of 5 carbs tops (two thirds of an onion), then beside fat and pork had two days of almond butter (7 carbs), and lately a bit of lettuce with lemon that is no more than 10-12 carbs. Don't take any sweeteners or anything. But maybe should have waited with zero carbs a bit longer. Will do that starting from tomorrow for about a week and see how it goes.

Did you ever have really bad breath - ick - that's a sure sign. But, honestly, the energy boost is unmistakable. I would not have believed it if I didn't feel it.

Bad breath, don't know. No one complained, anyways. Not that I bothered asking, either. ;) Have yellow tongue coating, instead. But stinky garlicky sweat, yes. Posted about it here.

Psyche would know better, but if you still have the fatigue, I'm wondering if you're just not burning fat yet? Are you taking potassium, lots of salt, lots of water? Sorry I'm not more help.

It's ok, thank you for your reply! It was good for a while, and had a great energy boost with clear mind (even after sleeping 6 hours tops), and then it seems like it changed, like ran out of energy. But I still think it has something to do with hormonal changes. PMS or period always knock me out a bit. It's usually PMS, but this time happened during a period.

Drink tons of water, salt was always my best friend so salt my meat pretty generously. I bought Himalaya pink salt and await shipment with powder Vit C to make a mix (take Vit C in tablets for now). Recently started taking potassium and since yesterday's night magnesium (was out for a while). Could be magnesium too, since took 800mg and then 600mg today and not even a hint that it's too much. So don't know. Next week going to take blood tests, including urine general, so probably will be able to see the level of ketones there.

 

[anart]

Don't know either. After stopping eating sweet potatoes (and don't think it exceeded 100 carbs) had at least 3 days for sure of zero carbs and eating only pork and pork fat (and then at the beginning still had pretty high energy), then couple of days of 5 carbs tops (two thirds of an onion), then beside fat and pork had two days of almond butter (7 carbs), and lately a bit of lettuce with lemon that is no more than 10-12 carbs. Don't take any sweeteners or anything. But maybe should have waited with zero carbs a bit longer. Will do that starting from tomorrow for about a week and see how it goes.

I think you might want to re-measure those carbs. I was shocked at how high onions are, for instance - 14 carbs in a medium onion?! Then again, it doesn't sound like you're eating a whole lot, but maybe it's the consistency thing? The book indicates that a person should be on less than 20 for two whole weeks, correct? So maybe it just takes time?

Drink tons of water, salt was always my best friend so salt my meat pretty generously. I bought Himalaya pink salt and await shipment with powder Vit C to make a mix (take Vit C in tablets for now). Recently started taking potassium and since yesterday's night magnesium (was out for a while). Could be magnesium too, since took 800mg and then 600mg today and not even a hint that it's too much. So don't know. Next week going to take blood tests, including urine general, so probably will be able to see the level of ketones there.

Ah, well getting all that stuff balanced is important. Don't know where I'd be without magnesium! Blood tests might show something that will help.

 

[Psalehesost]

Some have mentioned thirst masquerading as hunger, but I have noticed hunger (for fats) masquerading as thirst.

Sometimes, on and off - and this occasionally happened at a time around two years ago as well, though then I had no clue as to the solution - there is a sensation of thirst that is "weaker", less "solid" than the usual, but persistent. Drinking only removes it for a few minutes. But having some good fat takes care of it - be it from bacon or coconut.

Sugary carbs - even a small amount - can make it come back, however.

 

[Keit]

I think you might want to re-measure those carbs. I was shocked at how high onions are, for instance - 14 carbs in a medium onion?! Then again, it doesn't sound like you're eating a whole lot, but maybe it's the consistency thing? The book indicates that a person should be on less than 20 for two whole weeks, correct? So maybe it just takes time?

14 carbs? Ok, have no idea where I saw it, but was pretty sure it was 7 carbs per onion. Now read on this site that it's for a small onion, and I had two thirds of a medium one (10-11). They say 14 for a large one.

But you are right, it's all about consistency, so I'll start over and will eat only pork and beef tongue for 5 days and see how it goes. After that will take the tests.

 

[jhonny]

after the EE course I have understood that the diet is as important as the meditation , therefor I have begun my diet without gluten and dairy inmediatly, the problem is if you go out to visit friends or family and they offer you something to eat(bread or cookies) you always have to explain why don't you eat it so I decided to say that I'm celiac and I don't have anymore to explain, perhaps this is not the right way but I don't have to waste energy anymore to people who will not understand.
I have not to much to say about how I feel because I have begun last sunday and tomorrow I will start with the detox diet

 

[Aiming]

I had wanted to ask something: I still have hemp seed oil and flax seed oil at home, and am currently using hemp seed oil for omega 3s. I know that in the long run I'll have to get everything from animal fat, but can I use those up, and are those acceptable as a source for omega 3s (so I don't have to throw them away)?

Hi Enaid. Hemp seed oil isn't the best for getting omega-3s just because it's really high in omega-6. Ideally our ratio should be about 1:1 omega-3 to omega-6, but hemp is about 1:3. Flax isn't bad, although its omega-3 source is ALA and needs to be converted by the body to EPA and DHA, which are the active forms. It's much better to use fish oil since it's already in the form of EPA and DHA and doesn't need to be converted.

All in all, it doesn't make a lot of sense for us to get our fats from nut, seed or grain sources since this wouldn't have been practical for our paleolithic ancestors (I'm pretty sure they didn't have any seed presses :)). We just aren't built to take a lot of seed oils - the fat ratios aren't right for us.

On a different note, flaxseed oil (and possibly hemp) are probably the best oils for seasoning a cast iron pan :D

Thanks dugdeep. Now at least I don't have to throw away the hemp oil - only that I need to get such a pan first of all. ;)

My weakness and fatigue are pretty much gone, except for having an usual high heartbeat when only going up a few stories of stairs, or when I go jogging I can only do 25 minutes and only in slow pace and am pretty exhausted (I used to do 50 minutes with no problems).

Yesterday I was pretty fed up with eating nothing but meat and fat and longed for a kohlrabi, so I ate a small one. Especially that feeling in my mouth has been really bad the last couple of days, although today it's already better.

As for cravings, my body indeed does not have any sugar cravings, only my mind had those especially yesterday! It's as if there's some other part (pathways in the brain?) that's so used to eating fruit sugar that this mechanical habit is still in there somewhere.

In the beginning of switching to meat and fat I seemed to lose some weight, but now it seems I'm actually putting on weight (don't have a scale, just that body feeling). I think it could be that my liver is overwhelmed or I'm not yet in fat-burning mode. All my adult years I've been having that typical big waistline from eating excessive amounts of fruit sugar, even if I was slim I couldn't get rid of that belly fat.

I'm not yet taking potassium and digestive enzymes, will have to wait for next month. What I do first thing in the morning is to eat a spoon full of ghee, then about 200g of meat and another spoon of ghee (don't have a kitchen yet). Throughout the day I eat more spoons of ghee. What's really surprising is how very little hunger I have all of a sudden. Breakfast is the only time I'm really hungry; today was the first time I actually felt a little hunger in the evening and had mackerel with fat. Maybe the body has enough fat to utilize and burn off before I'll feel the need for more than one meal a day?

In any case, this is a really interesting experiment.

 

[Ollie]

I think you might want to re-measure those carbs. I was shocked at how high onions are, for instance - 14 carbs in a medium onion?! Then again, it doesn't sound like you're eating a whole lot, but maybe it's the consistency thing? The book indicates that a person should be on less than 20 for two whole weeks, correct? So maybe it just takes time?

14 carbs? Ok, have no idea where I saw it, but was pretty sure it was 7 carbs per onion. Now read on this site that it's for a small onion, and I had two thirds of a medium one (10-11). They say 14 for a large one.

But you are right, it's all about consistency, so I'll start over and will eat only pork and beef tongue for 5 days and see how it goes. After that will take the tests.

The carb content for onions depends on how they are cooked - 100g onion fried: 8g carb, 1g protein, 11g fat; medium onion (94g) boiled 10g carb, 1g protein, 1/4g fat - from this site - nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

Frying is lower carbs as well as soaking up the fat. I'm on my third day at 20g carbs, still low on energy and with aching limbs, but no cravings.

 

[anart]

I think you might want to re-measure those carbs. I was shocked at how high onions are, for instance - 14 carbs in a medium onion?! Then again, it doesn't sound like you're eating a whole lot, but maybe it's the consistency thing? The book indicates that a person should be on less than 20 for two whole weeks, correct? So maybe it just takes time?

14 carbs? Ok, have no idea where I saw it, but was pretty sure it was 7 carbs per onion. Now read on this site that it's for a small onion, and I had two thirds of a medium one (10-11). They say 14 for a large one.

But you are right, it's all about consistency, so I'll start over and will eat only pork and beef tongue for 5 days and see how it goes. After that will take the tests.

I'd wait to see if Psyche agrees with our discussion or not - I could be way out in left field or my experience might be unusual - and I'm not doctor! ;)

 

[mcb]

Most members keeping up with this thread are more than ready to go into ketoadaptation and experiment to see what is their carb intake in order to stay in fat burning mode. But although if some experts have positive and solid experience dealing with patients with delicate health issues, I still feel the need to mention a word of caution...

I have been very concerned about this, but I am in a situation where it is risky to do something AND risky to do nothing. I have thought about the risk of another embolism but I also have "gut" problems that, up until now, have not responded to anything, and general "low energy" corresponding to an increase in gut problems (following medical treatments) over the last 4 years. (I haven't eaten the SAD for 15 years now, but I have done vegan & low-fat, and I am 60.)

I have been gradually making dietary changes for the last year, but with no relief from the gut (fermentation and other symptoms) & fatigue problems. It was only when I cut out nearly all veggies (and my carb intake dropped to 15-20g/day from about 50-70) that the fermentation stopped and also the symptoms that other people have reported started in earnest.

I still don't have all of my energy back, but I take it as a good sign that it isn't any worse than what has been usual for the last 4 years. I feel, physically, like I am on the right track, but I have no way to gauge the actual risks. I would rather risk another embolism, however, than face certain decline and early death from conventional treatment that ignores the causes. And I think the changes I have made have been gradual. We will see.

 

[Thor]

SolarMother, I can highly recommend the coffee enema and in particular while transiting to the new diet. Not only does it help to get the clear out what's in the bowels but I have also found that on the days when my energy is very low and I do the enema it is as if my fatigue lifts considerably. I noticed this after it had been happening for at couple of days and can now say that it is a consistent result. I'm guessing that the transition to a high-fat low-carb diet puts some additional stress on the liver and gall bladder's detox capabilities and the detox enema helps in making those work better.

I think that the lifting of fatigue you're feeling is more likely from the caffeine you're absorbing!

That thought has crossed my mind, also :). However, I recall having read in one of Sherry Rogers books (although I can't find it now), that doing the detox enema with half a quart at a time ensures that no caffeine will pass from the colon into the blood. Also I have read that if you use too much coffee in one enema and it does pass into the blood, that you will feel an increase in heart rate and a rush. I feel none of these things. It is more like a relaxed feeling, where the chronic pain in my back is gone (for about half an hour) and the tiredness is also exchanged for being relaxed.

This being said, you might still be right :)

 

[Thor]

I was thinking to make a vegetable broth to ensure that I get some nutrients.

You might want to consider a bone and/or organ meat broth instead (add some salt). No carbs and as many nutrients as the vegetable one (plus lots of fat from the bone marrow).

Thanks, RedFox - that's a good idea. I hadn't thought of that. Unfortunately, I won't be able to get organic bones today from the organic butcher but if this persists I will get some tomorrow.

Increasing your dose of Vit. C can help too while on the DMSA detox.

Thanks, Shane for that tip. I will increase my dose. That will also help pass the meat through the intestines in the transition period :D

When I was feeling under the weather yesterday, I decided to follow Sherry Rogers suggestion in "Pain Free in 6 weeks" where she recommends that if you're feeling bad in any sort of way, a great thing to do is to fast and drink plenty of water until the body purges itself of whatever is generating the symptom. I therefore skipped dinner and when I woke up this morning, not only was I feeling fine, the pain in my back that is always there had been reduced.

 

[Gaby]

But you are right, it's all about consistency, so I'll start over and will eat only pork and beef tongue for 5 days and see how it goes. After that will take the tests.

There is really no need on having 0 carbs. Notice how 20-25 grams is where you start with and the lowest you have to go. You don't seem to have serious issues with insulin resistance either. Have some 25 grams from veggies :) Make sure you're having enough fat and are taking your salts, potassium, magnesium. If you have bad cramps, remember there is also L-carnitine which will take the fat into the muscle so it can be used as an energy source.

 

[Gaby]

Frying is lower carbs as well as soaking up the fat. I'm on my third day at 20g carbs, still low on energy and with aching limbs, but no cravings.

Remember that another trick to avoid cramps is the L-carnitine for the first few weeks while your body has DNA changes that will allow it to derive all the L-carnitine from protein. L-carnitine will transport the fats into your mitochondria as an energy source in your muscles. People in general notice a difference with it and it is an excellent supplement for cardio support.

I hope you get keto-adapted very soon.