"Life Without Bread"

[anart]

Thanks, dugdeep - it's really interesting!

 

[Harold]

I read LWB and TAASOLCL in the past couple of days. Ok, now I have a road map travel by. I am slowly reducing carbs and increasing animal fat. I am proceeding with caution watching body's responses to each step. At my age I'm not sure how much damage has been done that is not repairable.

Remember to work on healing the gut first before you go gung ho on reducing carbs too far!

That is really good advice. :) I have only been really doing low carbs now for a few months.... up to 5 maybe. I think I will go easy and stay with this and re-evaluate it at 6 months. I know I made really great progress since I have been attending EE classes.... I'll sit down and figure it out and take this advice.

 

[3DStudent]

I don't think I've mentioned my progress, or at least lately, so I've got a lot of things to talk about. I'm under 20 carbs for maybe two months now. Keeping close to .8 g/kg of protein as of one week.

I experienced briefly the headaches. They were pretty mild. Also the leg stiffness. I remember Gawan mentioning going up stairs. Once at work I was exhausted going up two flights of stairs. It was like that burning sensation when you exercise too much.

I've seen different percentages of protein for meat here. My packages of chicken and beef say 22 and 21 grams per 112 grams of meat. This works out to 18-19%. So I've been adding more protein, thinking it was closer to 25-33%. So I eat about 120 grams of meat now, which helped with the "skimpy" feeling so little food gave.

I drink a lot of water! Today I think I will have had 5 or 6 quarts. I don't drink enough at work, I only bring two quarts for 10 hours. Probably need to bring another.

I saw it being mentioned that we eat non starchy, fibrous veggies. I was eating buckwheat and amaranth as my carbs, but this week I did green beans. I was feeling kind of guilty because I had such a large amount of green beans made. But this is because they are so low in carbs. It was different to see the color green in my food again.

Anyone ever canned fat? I'm thinking about canning tallow. But I have experienced it going rancid from a month in 75-85 F temperatures. Maybe ghee or butter would be more stable? Although, aren't canned goods essentially indefinite? I didn't know about the BPA lids either, and have used those lids since I started with dieting according to this website.

I was wondering considering food shortages would sardines in olive oil be good to stock up on? Canning takes so long, and it looks like this would be easier. And I'm surprised that one can is 20 grams of protein, some more. A lot have expiration dates of 2016 and are usually from Canada or Poland, not near the Gulf.

I only eat two meals. I should be eating 55-65 grams of protein, depending whether I go by .8 or .95 g/kg. So, eating 25 g a meal, I only get 50 grams protein. I guess I could put in some nuts, but I really am not hungry late evening. Would I still be in repair mode with 50 grams, or what happens when you don't even meet the .8 g/kg of protein?

Something I want to mention is this weird inflammation I experience. It seems to only happen at work. I never notice it in the morning, and I eat from the same batch. The only thing I can think of is maybe the BPA lid from the jar, or the paper towel I put over the jar when I microwave it. These variables aren't present at my breakfast at home. I'm thinking I may be sensitive to beef. This feeling is inflammation in the shoulders and neck. Also a "hot" feeling in the breath and mouth. Maybe it's elimination of ketones? I measured about 60 mg/DL on the ketosticks today. I've been down to "trace" and "small", but it seems more are showing up.

When I took HCL at first I used to burp a lot, and smelly ones. And my stomach felt hot. But I ran out and got some recently and am fine with it.

I can't seem to sleep without waking up, even in complete darkness and 1.5 mg of melatonin. I wake up a few times and check my watch wondering what time it is. Could just be some habit. I try not to drink before bed too.

I've ordered carnitine and milk thistle. Going to order more glutamine and start colostrum too. Then I'll be totally on board with the recommended supplements. I'm sure I could use some liver and gut healing.

I've read only the Veggie Myth. But I'm caught up on this thread finally and will probably start PBPM tomorrow. Thanks for reading. Enjoy your sacraments! ;)

 

[LQB]

Nora Gedgaudas' talk at the Ancestral Health Symposium is up online. It's called "Primal mind: nutrition & mental health—improving the way you feel & function & cultivating an ageless mind". I'm part way through it now and it's quite fascinating.

http://vimeo.com/27961539

Thanks much dugdeep - I just watched it. Good talk and a good intro for me (plus all the other PBPM posts). I have the book, but not the time to read it yet.

 

[seek10]

Thanks, dugdeep - it's really interesting!

This is a beautiful presentation and she summarized every thing in her book very well. blood sugar issues ( high carb diet) ,gluten/casein stuff, auto immune issues, high fat, stress, Magnesium ,hydration, vitamins zinc etc. for digestion, at the end going going beyond with the caloric restricted diets etc.

Her saying Low carbs diet are GENOCIDAL is perfect at its best. May be worth a translation.

 

[seek10]

Thanks, dugdeep - it's really interesting!

This is a beautiful presentation and she summarized every thing in her book very well. blood sugar issues ( high carb diet) ,gluten/casein stuff, auto immune issues, high fat, stress, Magnesium ,hydration, vitamins zinc etc. for digestion, at the end going going beyond with the caloric restricted diets etc.

Her saying Low carbs diet are GENOCIDAL is perfect at its best. May be worth a translation.

well, she has a power point presentation that covers every thing at

http://www.slideshare.net/ancestralhealth/ahs-slidesnora-gedgaudas

 

[LQB]

This is a bit but our male Black Hog is in deep ketosis. His sow had piglets about 3 weeks ago and we have had to keep him separate from her - they can see and here each other, but no physical access. Since separation he has gone on hunger strike and eats only a small fraction of his usual. You can smell his breath from 25 feet (he's a big boy). He's losing weight fast. We'll put them back together for a while when sure she is out of heat.

 

[beetlemaniac]

Something I want to mention is this weird inflammation I experience. It seems to only happen at work. I never notice it in the morning, and I eat from the same batch. The only thing I can think of is maybe the BPA lid from the jar, or the paper towel I put over the jar when I microwave it. These variables aren't present at my breakfast at home. I'm thinking I may be sensitive to beef. This feeling is inflammation in the shoulders and neck. Also a "hot" feeling in the breath and mouth. Maybe it's elimination of ketones? I measured about 60 mg/DL on the ketosticks today. I've been down to "trace" and "small", but it seems more are showing up.

I recently found out that overcooked meat, especially red meat (mutton), gives me bad headaches and indigestion. I think I'll have to throw out a whole batch I made earlier due to this. I think this never happens with overcooked pork. So maybe you could try cooking your meat less and see how it affects you. Just a thought.

 

[dugdeep]

Thanks, dugdeep - it's really interesting!

No worries :)

They have most of the talks from the symposium posted here - http://vimeo.com/ancestralhealthsymposium/videos/page:1/sort:newest and seem to be adding more regularly.

I'm not sure how many of them would be worth watching. Gary Taubes has one about "The Case Against Sugar" and Robert Lustig has one about "Fructose", I believe. I watched Denise Minger's one about "How To Win A Fight With A Vegetarian" which was quite funny and brought up some good data points in countering a lot of the arguments commonly used to defend the vegetarian myth (although Rob Wolf made a good point in the Q&A about it being a waste of energy to deal with people who aren't interested in our dietary strategy when so many are interested and looking for help. That said, sometimes the battle comes to you!).

I checked out biochemist Matt Lalonde's talk too, and it was pretty fascinating (even though he's a bit crusty as a presenter). He was talking about the importance of being credible when presenting evidence on a paleo diet and the fact that there's a lot of hearsay and rumours that get passed around as if it's truth on paleo blogs and that this only hurts a movement that is trying to be taken seriously in scientific circles. His going through what is actually extablished scientifically about anti-nutrients is pretty interesting.

Rob Wolf's talk is pretty interesting too, talking about his own introduction to paleo and sharing some of the amazing success stories he's encountered with people he's worked with. Chris Masterjohn's talk on some nitty-gritty scientific details on cholesterol will be interesting to biochemistry nerds, but it's a bit dry.

I haven't checked out Mark Sisson's, Michael Eades' or Emily Deans', but they're names I respect and would be interested in seeing what they have to say. Tom Naughton's is probably pretty funny (he did the documentary "Fat Head," clips of which have been circulating around FB of late) and he's good at pointing out the errors/corruption of dietary science.

If anyone checks out any more of the talks, post about it here if they're worth checking out (or warn us if they're not ;)).

 

[Gertrudes]

Thanks for that review dugdeep!

 

[Gaby]

Would I still be in repair mode with 50 grams, or what happens when you don't even meet the .8 g/kg of protein?

You would be using your reserves and "wasting away". You can have between 0.8 to 0.95 grams of proteins per kg per day. Are you taking enough potassium? If you are having cramps, you can take 2 tablets of 99mg with each meal for a few days, then stop or go back to label instructions.

 

[Laura]

I've seen different percentages of protein for meat here. My packages of chicken and beef say 22 and 21 grams per 112 grams of meat. This works out to 18-19%. So I've been adding more protein, thinking it was closer to 25-33%. So I eat about 120 grams of meat now, which helped with the "skimpy" feeling so little food gave.

Note what has been said here: this reduction should come more or less naturally. Also, we've found that pork is like a superfood, contrary to the usual "health faddist" claims that you shouldn't eat it.

I saw it being mentioned that we eat non starchy, fibrous veggies. I was eating buckwheat and amaranth as my carbs, but this week I did green beans. I was feeling kind of guilty because I had such a large amount of green beans made. But this is because they are so low in carbs. It was different to see the color green in my food again.

Softly cooked vegetables are the best option for your carbs. You've probably been getting insulin spikes from the grains. Just best to cut all of them out completely.

Anyone ever canned fat? I'm thinking about canning tallow. But I have experienced it going rancid from a month in 75-85 F temperatures. Maybe ghee or butter would be more stable? Although, aren't canned goods essentially indefinite? I didn't know about the BPA lids either, and have used those lids since I started with dieting according to this website.

We've canned plenty of duck fat - we also buy it canned. That is, we process it in glass jars. Hopefully, the benefits of the fat will outweigh the detriments of the BPA...

I was wondering considering food shortages would sardines in olive oil be good to stock up on? Canning takes so long, and it looks like this would be easier. And I'm surprised that one can is 20 grams of protein, some more. A lot have expiration dates of 2016 and are usually from Canada or Poland, not near the Gulf.

Yes, we have a good stock of sardines in both salted water and in olive oil.

I only eat two meals. I should be eating 55-65 grams of protein, depending whether I go by .8 or .95 g/kg. So, eating 25 g a meal, I only get 50 grams protein. I guess I could put in some nuts, but I really am not hungry late evening. Would I still be in repair mode with 50 grams, or what happens when you don't even meet the .8 g/kg of protein?

If you aren't hungry, don't sweat it. Just make sure you get enough fat for energy.

Something I want to mention is this weird inflammation I experience. It seems to only happen at work. I never notice it in the morning, and I eat from the same batch. The only thing I can think of is maybe the BPA lid from the jar, or the paper towel I put over the jar when I microwave it. These variables aren't present at my breakfast at home. I'm thinking I may be sensitive to beef. This feeling is inflammation in the shoulders and neck. Also a "hot" feeling in the breath and mouth. Maybe it's elimination of ketones? I measured about 60 mg/DL on the ketosticks today. I've been down to "trace" and "small", but it seems more are showing up.

That is not technically inflammation. However, it could be a reaction to your environment more than your food.

When I took HCL at first I used to burp a lot, and smelly ones. And my stomach felt hot. But I ran out and got some recently and am fine with it.

Remember that you only need to take this as long as you need to take it... when you begin digesting your food efficiently without, you can lay off the digestive supplements.

I can't seem to sleep without waking up, even in complete darkness and 1.5 mg of melatonin. I wake up a few times and check my watch wondering what time it is. Could just be some habit. I try not to drink before bed too.

Maybe you don't need the melatonin? I've stopped taking it entirely - don't seem to need it. I have a cup of chamomile and mint tea before bed and that works fine.

I've ordered carnitine and milk thistle. Going to order more glutamine and start colostrum too. Then I'll be totally on board with the recommended supplements. I'm sure I could use some liver and gut healing.

Don't forget the omega 3s in fish oil. Probably THE most important of all!

 

[3DStudent]

So maybe you could try cooking your meat less and see how it affects you. Just a thought.

Yeah, I will be doing this due to the info Psyche posted. I've always liked my meat bloody and rare. I just would want to make sure it's done enough and without bacteria.

Would I still be in repair mode with 50 grams, or what happens when you don't even meet the .8 g/kg of protein?

You would be using your reserves and "wasting away". You can have between 0.8 to 0.95 grams of proteins per kg per day. Are you taking enough potassium? If you are having cramps, you can take 2 tablets of 99mg with each meal for a few days, then stop or go back to label instructions.

That's what I thought. But my weight has been steady for weeks. I take two potassium 99mgs in the morning and don't really get stiffness unless I don't drink.

Softly cooked vegetables are the best option for your carbs. You've probably been getting insulin spikes from the grains. Just best to cut all of them out completely.

Got it.

Yes, we have a good stock of sardines in both salted water and in olive oil.

That's good to know. I'm kind of a minimalist and like to make things as easy and quick as possible.

I only eat two meals. I should be eating 55-65 grams of protein, depending whether I go by .8 or .95 g/kg. So, eating 25 g a meal, I only get 50 grams protein. I guess I could put in some nuts, but I really am not hungry late evening. Would I still be in repair mode with 50 grams, or what happens when you don't even meet the .8 g/kg of protein?

If you aren't hungry, don't sweat it. Just make sure you get enough fat for energy.

I put an extra 30-50g of fat in my meals when I eat them. But I don't cook them in fat because they usually have enough juice.

Something I want to mention is this weird inflammation I experience. It seems to only happen at work. I never notice it in the morning, and I eat from the same batch. The only thing I can think of is maybe the BPA lid from the jar, or the paper towel I put over the jar when I microwave it. These variables aren't present at my breakfast at home. I'm thinking I may be sensitive to beef. This feeling is inflammation in the shoulders and neck. Also a "hot" feeling in the breath and mouth. Maybe it's elimination of ketones? I measured about 60 mg/DL on the ketosticks today. I've been down to "trace" and "small", but it seems more are showing up.

That is not technically inflammation. However, it could be a reaction to your environment more than your food.

I also forgot to mention that in the middle of the night I had to go urinate. And I got this "inflammation feeling". It was weird because of course I hadn't eaten anything. That's also why I thought it might have to do with ketones eliminating.

When I took HCL at first I used to burp a lot, and smelly ones. And my stomach felt hot. But I ran out and got some recently and am fine with it.

Remember that you only need to take this as long as you need to take it... when you begin digesting your food efficiently without, you can lay off the digestive supplements.

Will have to remember that. I'm currently out of ox bile, but maybe I don't really need it.

Maybe you don't need the melatonin? I've stopped taking it entirely - don't seem to need it. I have a cup of chamomile and mint tea before bed and that works fine.

I have some herbal teas too, but was never much a fan of them. I do like the effect of a quick getting to sleep that melatonin gives.

Don't forget the omega 3s in fish oil. Probably THE most important of all!

I'm taking 4 grams from salmon and cod liver oil.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

 

[theos]

An update on what I've been doing diet-wise:

I'm currently reading PBPM. Deep Nutrition is next.

I've increased my intake of fat. I've been making soups with organ meats (kidney, heart, tongue -- I don't think tongue is an organ :D) with a couple of dollops of tallow and a few bones thrown in. It's quite delicious and satisfying. I can only find grass-fed oxtails every blue moon but they are a real treat when I do get them. I also eat eggs and bacon sometimes with onion and avocado. I'll have sardines with olive oil from time to time as well.

I had some leg cramps at night while stretching a while back but since I've added the soup and some potassium they've eased up considerably or disappeared. I've also noticed that when I'm very low or no carb my bowel tolerance for Vit C is very low. 1 gram is enough to give me loose stools. With the soup my bm's are moving as they should.

According to the scale I haven't lost much weight but I feel more streamlined and my clothes fit looser. I'm still reading small to moderate on my ketostix but I understand that the reading is not always truly indicative of your level of ketosis. Plus, I threw myself out of ketosis while on vacation a couple of weeks ago so it's back to square one.

I need to adjust my protein intake to the correct amount and as long as I stick with it things should be good.

 

[Ollie]

...
According to the scale I haven't lost much weight but I feel more streamlined and my clothes fit looser. ...

What I've found is that rather than any significant reduction in weight, it is my waist measurement that is reducing.