London Olympics 2012

[melatonin]

I think its hard to enjoy an opening ceremony that cost well over £30 million, if your at the same time aware of all the suffering in the world. I did think the first hour was very well created though, and the music and settings were brilliant. In a world where people cared for one another without the physcopathic infuence, i think i could of actually found it amazing and inspiring.

I thought the left handed nazi wave was odd. Yeah, it wasnt a Nazi salute, but maybe it was purposely subtle, depending on how deep you think the mind games go, and whos involved. Remebering that its all a game to them, and one they enjoy. Messing with peoples minds is part of the fun. Nothing is ever too obvious, just near enough to create conflict.
Intresting that the Munich games in 1936 were the last time someone did a proper Nazi salute - Hitler. The next year WW2 started.

Edited - 1 spelling mistake.

 

[Cosmos]

Did you ever thought about the possibility that events like this are consciously disigned that way with all those so called "Symbols" to distract and get exactly those kind of conspiracy theorist people all worked up about it ?

in the end there is a awful lot of energy that people put into it that could be spend in a much more productive way that could really change something. But no, the PTB really don't want that to happen so they kill three birds with one stone here because they do not only distract those people but can also "eat" them pretty good in that state and they let serious conspiracy theorist who try to work objectively look stupid and ridicules on top of that too.

even if there would be "Symbols" what does it really matter ?

a quote from George Carlin:

I leave symbols to the simple minded

and the Quote of the C's again :

A: It is just as dangerous and just as useless to "see" conspiracy in everything as it is to "see" conspiracy in nothing. We tire of conspiracy "buffs." They are nutty, and serve as perfect false sponsors to those who really DO seek to conduct widespread mental/psychic manipulations and control.

 

[loreta]

I feel shameful because I was one of the ones who said that this man was doing the Nazi salute.
I don't have an excuse. We tend to judge without context and this is very bad, yes indeed. I want to thank the more mature members to put me on the right track.

Never judge anyone nor anything without context, this is a primal law. I will try to have this in mind always! To be objective, this is the most important attitude-

 

[melatonin]

Did you ever thought about the possibility that events like this are consciously disigned that way with all those so called "Symbols" to distract and get exactly those kind of conspiracy theorist people all worked up about it ?

in the end there is a awful lot of energy that people put into it that could be spend in a much more productive way that could really change something. But no, the PTB really don't want that to happen so they kill three birds with one stone here because they do not only distract those people but can also "eat" them pretty good in that state and they let serious conspiracy theorist who try to work objectively look stupid and ridicules on top of that too.

even if there would be "Symbols" what does it really matter ?

a quote from George Carlin:

I leave symbols to the simple minded

and the Quote of the C's again :

A: It is just as dangerous and just as useless to "see" conspiracy in everything as it is to "see" conspiracy in nothing. We tire of conspiracy "buffs." They are nutty, and serve as perfect false sponsors to those who really DO seek to conduct widespread mental/psychic manipulations and control.

I agree with that ^
1 look on GodLikeProductions forum proves this, lol.
Then again, 'they' would also love it if nobody observed anything 'they' were doing. Like you say, its about conserving your own energy.

 

[herrnimrod]

So you've tried to give the Nazi salute many time by waving your left hand back and forth at a 45 degree angle with fingers open and this was interpreted as a Nazi salute. I see. Look, for a start, a Nazi salute is with the right arm, fingers stiff and it is a SINGULAR movement, not a lax back and forward, which is wave. I can't believe you're actually insisting on this when all you have to do is look up images of a Nazi salute.

It's done with the right arm, and the motion back to the chest is just to underline the salute by doing it several times. A kind of frantic and extreme action to increase the humorous aspect. No, it's not correct, but I've yet to meet somebody who didn't get the point when it's done. Basically that straight arm means "nazi" to most people (at least here in Norway).

Here's Nixon, the Nazi. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3U4MhKDxcw

Not disputing the guy was a nazi, but that's not the same wave at all. That I would agree is a typical, standard wave that doesn't get confused for anything else.

No it's not. Each event needs to be considered on its own merits. What you are proposing is black and white thinking. That is very far from 'empirical' or 'sound'.

I consider that akin to giving a proven liar the benefit of the doubt each time he tells a new lie. This is not a singular event, it's television.

The difference is that I am basing my opinion on what is most plausible:

That a German member of the Olympic committee with no history of Nazism consciously decided to make a "nazi salute" to the German team at the Olympic games in London, while surrounded by other leaders of state and in front of a world-wide audience of 1 billion. While doing so, he failed to actually do the salute but instead waved the wrong arm back and forth as if waving at the team.

Or

That a German member of the Olympic committee was waving in a stiff-armed fashion at the German team and a bunch of people decided to make something out of it by suggesting it was a Nazi salute.

Then you misunderstand me. I have no opinion on Walter Trøggs intentions. What I do say is that the producers and media grabbed the opportunity for controversy, whether the incident was planned or accidental. The reason I believe this is because that is what the media has been doing since the beginning.

It's possible that some people will interpret it as a Nazi salute, and others will not. If you want to base your opinion on what other people interpret it as then go ahead. But what the masses think these days is usually wrong. Or haven't you noticed?

Then you shouldn't say "probably anyone".

What other people interpret it as is my point, not my opinion.

Okay, maybe I was putting too much faith in people's ability to be rational (my mistake I should know better). That doesn't change the fact that the most plausible explanation is that he was waving.

Probably. What the most plausible reason for why the media aired it however is something else entirely. I'd bet they were fully aware of how it would be interpreted. Still though, I can't fathom why anyone in Germany would even attempt anything that could even be reminiscent of a straight arm when they wave.

 

[Niall]

Speaking of Germans... interesting choice of nik, herrnimrod

Herr

From Old High German hēriro, hērro, the comparative form of hēr (“noble, venerable”) (German hehr), by analogy with Latin senior (“elder”).

1. Mr., mister, sir
2. gentleman
3. master, lord, generally denotes that somebody has control over something, either in a generic or in a regal sense

Nimrod

In Hebrew and Christian tradition, Nimrod is traditionally considered the leader of those who built the Tower of Babel

Based on this, I submit that herrminrod is a secret member of the aristocratic shapeshifting bloodlines that have ruled with an iron fist since ancient times and that he is infatuated with the German dude's wave in the Olympic arena is cause he so badly wants it to be a Nazi salute.

Does that sound plausible?

If not, why not?

If you answered "because it's based on assumptions and subjective nonsense", you would be correct!

This discussion reminds me of an old forum member who posted photos he took of faces he was seeing in clouds. No amount of reasoning with him would convince him otherwise. In the end we just had to let him be.

I wonder if to this day he still sees faces in the clouds.

 

[Joe]

Then you misunderstand me. I have no opinion on Walter Trøggs intentions. What I do say is that the producers and media grabbed the opportunity for controversy, whether the incident was planned or accidental. The reason I believe this is because that is what the media has been doing since the beginning.

Well, I'm glad you've shown an ability to come to your senses and recognise that it was probably not intentional and he was just waving in his own style. As for the media, yes, one or two outlets (the gutter press) used it to sell a little scandal.

 

[Joe]

well Perceval I see your point, nevertheless his waving seems very unnatural. If i try to do it myself more natural angle is with the arm almost perpendicular to the body, also if you want to wave to someone you don't pause on top of the wave. But maybe he has joint problems.
Conspiracy or not it gives me bad gut feeling and I stick to it.

Maybe because you posted herrnimrod's analysis on your FB page?

 

[Windmill knight]

I feel shameful because I was one of the ones who said that this man was doing the Nazi salute.
I don't have an excuse. We tend to judge without context and this is very bad, yes indeed. I want to thank the more mature members to put me on the right track.

Never judge anyone nor anything without context, this is a primal law. I will try to have this in mind always! To be objective, this is the most important attitude-

Hey loreta, don't be too harsh on yourself. The human brain is a sense-making machine, so it is a natural tendency for all of us to try to read meaning into things. Sometimes we have a strong case and others we jump into conclusions with little data; sometimes we are right and others we aren't. I think we all have at some point become attached to some interpretation or other, only to realize later that we were wrong - perhaps even blatantly wrong. The important thing is not let those attachments prevent us from adjusting our perceptions to make them closer to reality; in other words to remain flexible and open to possibilities we hadn't considered before.

 

[Z...]

well Perceval I see your point, nevertheless his waving seems very unnatural. If i try to do it myself more natural angle is with the arm almost perpendicular to the body, also if you want to wave to someone you don't pause on top of the wave. But maybe he has joint problems.
Conspiracy or not it gives me bad gut feeling and I stick to it.

Maybe because you posted herrnimrod's analysis on your FB page?

Didn't quite understand what are you trying to imply here Perceval.

Indeed, I posted his analysis ( before this discussion on Nazi salute ensued here) with caption : "I found very interesting commentary about last night Olympic Opening Ceremony:", mostly because it reflected most of own thoughts on the ceremony, but I am wondering how is this relevant for the discussion here?

I feel shameful because I was one of the ones who said that this man was doing the Nazi salute.
I don't have an excuse. We tend to judge without context and this is very bad, yes indeed. I want to thank the more mature members to put me on the right track.

Why would you need to apologize or feel shameful?! The guy waves very unnatural and there is no way for us to tell what were his real intentions i.e. whether it was innocent wave or Nazi salute. Perceval is trying to say ( at least to my understanding) that Nazi salute is the least plausible explanation. In addition and rightfully so - older members of the forum are trying to discourage leaps of fanciful conspiratorial ideas but that doesn't mean you should feel ashamed. Well at least that's the way I see it.

 

[seek10]

London Telegraph has an article:
German anger as dignitary accused of performing ‘Nazi’ salute at opening ceremony
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/9436019/German-anger-as-dignitary-accused-of-performing-Nazi-salute-at-opening-ceremony.html)

It appears Walther Tröger has dedicated himself to building tolerance in society and helping Germany move past its darker period and the likelihood of him performing a Nazi salute is simply ridiculous.

Although I'm not that surprised that the news media is busy reporting this "alleged" Nazi salute, I am surprised that anyone who is committing themselves to the pursuit of objective reality would jump so quickly to a conclusion. Why assume something when there are other possible explanations? This really doesn't make sense, unless other evidence can come into play to make one lean one way over another. But even then, it would make more sense to have a working hypothesis, open to further information.

It all sounding like a spicing of Olympics by all means - dress of netherlands hockey team, nazi salutes etc. but don't talk about missile batteries.

 

[Z...]

Hey loreta, don't be too harsh on yourself. The human brain is a sense-making machine, so it is a natural tendency for all of us to try to read meaning into things. Sometimes we have a strong case and others we jump into conclusions with little data; sometimes we are right and others we aren't. I think we all have at some point become attached to some interpretation or other, only to realize later that we were wrong - perhaps even blatantly wrong. The important thing is not let those attachments prevent us from adjusting our perceptions to make them closer to reality; in other words to remain flexible and open to possibilities we hadn't considered before.

Exactly, that's the whole point of networking - to try and come as close as possible to the objective truth. I am sure that even Perceval has sometimes seen conspiracy where there was none, nobody is immune to this. The bottom line is that we are learning about our perceptions and other workings of our machine.

 

[loreta]

Hey loreta, don't be too harsh on yourself. The human brain is a sense-making machine, so it is a natural tendency for all of us to try to read meaning into things. Sometimes we have a strong case and others we jump into conclusions with little data; sometimes we are right and others we aren't. I think we all have at some point become attached to some interpretation or other, only to realize later that we were wrong - perhaps even blatantly wrong. The important thing is not let those attachments prevent us from adjusting our perceptions to make them closer to reality; in other words to remain flexible and open to possibilities we hadn't considered before.

Exactly, that's the whole point of networking - to try and come as close as possible to the objective truth. I am sure that even Perceval has sometimes seen conspiracy where there was none, nobody is immune to this. The bottom line is that we are learning about our perceptions and other workings of our machine.

That's right. Hopefully we have this network to see things more clearly.

Shameful because maybe I induce some others members to see the Nazi salute by my words that said that it was surely a Nazi salute and that Hitler loved the Olympics. Hopefully again the "seniors"and teachers are here to put a little order in our minds and perceptions! :)

 

[Foxx]

I personally think it's worth considering, for all those who became attached to the "Nazi salute" theory of this guy's waving, that pages have been spent discussing some guy waving in a way that looks kind of like a Nazi salute--so what? What if it is a Nazi salute? Why would it even matter? As far as I can see it, even if it were (which is obviously pushing it), it would be no exposure of new information (one world totalitarian government is old news) and have no bearing on our personal or global lives.

Perhaps there is a conspiracy in this guy's strange waving--a conspiracy to get some people to see conspiracy everywhere, as the Cs said.

It's interesting as well, as I don't recall this coming up in the posts, that no one suggested that perhaps he was trying to get the attention of someone down below, possibly looking up (maybe his son or daughter? I don't know) and therefore, waving strangely to try to stand out and be visible to that person or persons. That happens a lot at sporting events with parents, at least in america.

Just my take, FWIW.

 

[truth seeker]

Shameful because maybe I induce some others members to see the Nazi salute by my words that said that it was surely a Nazi salute and that Hitler loved the Olympics. Hopefully again the "seniors"and teachers are here to put a little order in our minds and perceptions! :)

Not to derail this thread, but one of the more challenging lessons I've had to learn is that while we are each responsible for our words and actions, we're not responsible for the actions of others. We're not that powerful in terms of controlling what others do.

I've found that my program(s) regarding this stems from having to take on responsibility for others when I was growing up. It's basically a breaching of boundaries that goes both ways. What other people choose to do or not do in this (or any other) situation, often has little to do with you personally so there's no need for you to take that on.

As was said, we're all here to learn and how can we do so if we don't take chances and network - put our thoughts out there for the purpose of objective feedback? So while it's important that we try our best to be aware of what and how we post, when we do so, the opportunity is always there for others to post their own thoughts. When everyone approaches the idea of posting with an open mind to seek truth in all it's forms, any thread then paves the way for learning to occur. No need to feel ashamed about that. :)