London Olympics 2012

[Graalsword]

And of course, during Germany's entrance:
[...]
Notice he's sitting in the VIP section with Camilla Parker Bowles and the Major of London (who finds it extremely hilarious). Don't think this is an accident. A planned act.

You're not serious are you? He was probably just waving. Let's keep some perspective here. Y'all are starting to sound like you belong over at David Icke's forum.

I think there is an error in the quote Perceval, it was not me who said exactly that, it comes from another post by herrnimrod here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26953.msg357630.html#msg357630

As we have learned, on a very small scale compared to her life, having any kind of public presence means there are always going to be detractors and destroyers making assumptions and telling lies for all kinds of pathological reasons.

Just keep in mind the endless nonsense propagated by that whacko Icke and so many others.

Our objective here is to deal with some facts and not make wild speculations without so labeling them.

As it happens, I DO know someone close to the Queen, and I have eyes and experiences of my own that are comparable on a much smaller scale.

I agree. She must be not so evil if David Icke and his people are promoting that nonesense of the Queen and her family shapeshifting to lizzard beings.

Next time the guy will say something like "see? the Queen flew from a helicopter because she is a winged reptoid!"

Regarding the alleged esoteric symbols, maybe the PTB want everybody to search for esoteric symbols while they continue to destroy the world elsewhere, such as the orwellian measures taken for the games, among other things. Another way to distract people, in this case those who are not programmed to be distracted by sports.

 

[Gonzo]

I agree with what Truth Seeker wrote. However, regarding taking responsibility for our words and actions, I think there should be a caveat.

While we cannot be completely responsible for the actions of others that result from our words and deeds, we do still play a role and, therefore do have to take some responsibility, regardless of our original intent.

This is a complex area, and I admit I don't have sufficient clarity on it, but I think it comes down to this: we cannot take responsibility for other people misinterpreting or adding to that which we express. But we are responsible for our lack of due diligence, which can translate to negligence.

Examples of this could be shooting at a deer without knowing someone was standing far away on the other side and having the bullet hit that person. It would be considered negligent if we did not take every reasonable precaution to ensure no one was down range.

Even if every reasonable precaution was taken, and the result considered an accident, there still would be a degree of responsibility. In this case, such responsibility might only exist in an STS world, where there always needs to be blame (this is where I get confused, since I can't think completely in STO terms).

While experiencing shame might seem over the top, I relate completely with loreta's feeling and perhaps it is a more appropriate emotional response would be guilt and disappointment with oneself.

Gonzo

 

[loreta]

Shameful because maybe I induce some others members to see the Nazi salute by my words that said that it was surely a Nazi salute and that Hitler loved the Olympics. Hopefully again the "seniors"and teachers are here to put a little order in our minds and perceptions! :)

Not to derail this thread, but one of the more challenging lessons I've had to learn is that while we are each responsible for our words and actions, we're not responsible for the actions of others. We're not that powerful in terms of controlling what others do.

I've found that my program(s) regarding this stems from having to take on responsibility for others when I was growing up. It's basically a breaching of boundaries that goes both ways. What other people choose to do or not do in this (or any other) situation, often has little to do with you personally so there's no need for you to take that on.

As was said, we're all here to learn and how can we do so if we don't take chances and network - put our thoughts out there for the purpose of objective feedback? So while it's important that we try our best to be aware of what and how we post, when we do so with, the opportunity is always there for others to post their own thoughts. When everyone approaches the idea of posting with an open mind to seek truth in all it's forms, any thread then paves the way for learning to occur. No need to feel ashamed about that. :)

Thanks for clarify this. I have tendency to feel responsible for many things (that's a part of one of my "program". Thanks again for the insight.

 

[Niall]

Hey loreta, don't be too harsh on yourself. The human brain is a sense-making machine, so it is a natural tendency for all of us to try to read meaning into things. Sometimes we have a strong case and others we jump into conclusions with little data; sometimes we are right and others we aren't. I think we all have at some point become attached to some interpretation or other, only to realize later that we were wrong - perhaps even blatantly wrong. The important thing is not let those attachments prevent us from adjusting our perceptions to make them closer to reality; in other words to remain flexible and open to possibilities we hadn't considered before.

Exactly, that's the whole point of networking - to try and come as close as possible to the objective truth. I am sure that even Perceval has sometimes seen conspiracy where there was none, nobody is immune to this. The bottom line is that we are learning about our perceptions and other workings of our machine.

For someone who is invested in the Nazi salute theory, you're not really in a position to preach about seeing the unseen, particularly to Perceval who has a track record of calling it right time and time again. Windmill Knight's post addresses YOU and your support for this nonsense. For you to deflect this onto Perceval, who called out this BS for what it is, is a really unclean thing to do.

 

[Mr. Premise]

I followed that part of this circus and that "dear madame" looked like she was "royally" bored like hell ... it got to the point that it amused me and I had to say it out loud ("bon sang, mais elle se fait royalement ch..er la reine") ;)

Thing is she almost looked aggressive sometimes, when kids were chanting I couldn't even see a glitch of satisfaction, so it seems that this one can't hold it anymore.

As for the Queens reaction - fwiw, I thought she looked really uncomfortable and very apprehensive, like maybe she knew there was another script being played out here, that the vast majority of viewers just wouldn't understand, including myself.

Interesting how two people can come to such different conclusions observing a third person they don't even know.

I wish people would leave that poor woman and her family alone. They are pawns and puppets and Burrell let the cat out of the bag by quoting what the queen said to him and then back-tracking big time. She knows that she's little more than a dog and pony show.

I looked up the Queen Elizabeth quote as reported by Paul Burrell quote to refresh my memory and here it is:

"Be careful, Paul, no one has been as close to a member of the Royal Family as you have. There are powers at work in this country of which we have no knowledge. Do you understand?"

 

[Joe]

well Perceval I see your point, nevertheless his waving seems very unnatural. If i try to do it myself more natural angle is with the arm almost perpendicular to the body, also if you want to wave to someone you don't pause on top of the wave. But maybe he has joint problems.
Conspiracy or not it gives me bad gut feeling and I stick to it.

Maybe because you posted herrnimrod's analysis on your FB page?

Didn't quite understand what are you trying to imply here Perceval.

Indeed, I posted his analysis ( before this discussion on Nazi salute ensued here) with caption : "I found very interesting commentary about last night Olympic Opening Ceremony:", mostly because it reflected most of own thoughts on the ceremony, but I am wondering how is this relevant for the discussion here?

Just in terms of being aware of how invested you were in the idea and the extent to which you'll try to justify a choice already made.

 

[Z...]

Hey loreta, don't be too harsh on yourself. The human brain is a sense-making machine, so it is a natural tendency for all of us to try to read meaning into things. Sometimes we have a strong case and others we jump into conclusions with little data; sometimes we are right and others we aren't. I think we all have at some point become attached to some interpretation or other, only to realize later that we were wrong - perhaps even blatantly wrong. The important thing is not let those attachments prevent us from adjusting our perceptions to make them closer to reality; in other words to remain flexible and open to possibilities we hadn't considered before.

Exactly, that's the whole point of networking - to try and come as close as possible to the objective truth. I am sure that even Perceval has sometimes seen conspiracy where there was none, nobody is immune to this. The bottom line is that we are learning about our perceptions and other workings of our machine.

For someone who is vested in the Nazi salute theory, you're not really in a position to preach about seeing the unseen, particularly to Perceval who has a track record of calling it right time and time again. Windmill Knight's post addresses YOU and your support for this nonsense. For you to deflect this onto Perceval, who called out this BS for what it is, is a really unclean thing to do.

Are we reading the same posts? Me preaching ? Why would you read it like this?

When I said 'exactly'- I meant it as confirmation - from my end not as preaching to loretta. Did you see my previous posts?
To ME it looks like you are projecting a lot of things here.

How can I deflect anything to Perceval if I was inclined to believe the Nazi salute from the beginning.
My point was very simple, we are all prone, including the most wise of us to read meaning into different things ( this is what windmill knight conveyed in his post) , but should I or Loretta ( who already started feeling as if she has to apologize) feel stupid because for some time I considered this ceremony was ripe with symbols which can be interpreted in so many ways.
I was unaware this is the contest who can see better or who has a better track record, you certainly make it sound like that.

I just saw Perceval's post; Yes from the moment I saw the show I interpreted it almost the same as herr Nimrod ( I stopped watching after children in hospital bed) so in that sense you are right I made a choice based on my gut feeling and I am acknowledging this gut feeling.
On the other hand - I have been sticking with this forum mainly because YOU guys were able to show me many times the things I was unable to see due to different blind spots. Therefore I rationally chose to go with your judgment on this matter although my heart is not in it. Yet ;)

 

[Joe]

I just saw Perceval's post; Yes from the moment I saw the show I interpreted it almost the same as herr Nimrod ( I stopped watching after children in hospital bed) so in that sense you are right I made a choice based on my gut feeling and I am acknowledging this gut feeling.

On the other hand - I have been sticking with this forum mainly because YOU guys were able to show me many times the things I was unable to see due to different blind spots. Therefore I rationally chose to go with your judgment on this matter although my heart is not in it. Yet ;)

I don't think anyone here has said that there is no chance that there was any dark or sinister symbolism in the ceremony. The problem was Herrnimrod's analysis here and here which stretched things quite a bit. As Loreta said, this forum is all about trying to see objectively rather than subjectively, so in this case HerrNimrod's specific claims had to be contested.

As far as I am concerned, it didn't take any great perceptive skills to realise that Herrnimrod's suggestions were a stretch. For the Nazi salute, for example, I think plain old common sense would suggest that it is, at the very least, unlikely that someone on the German Olympic committee would consciously make a Nazi salute at the games in full view of the world's cameras. I mean, wouldn't dark and sinister symbolism in the ceremony by definition have to be more or less covert? But billions of people (probably) around the world know that salute and know what it conveys. So making such a salute in front of a billion people wouldn't really be very covert.

So with a tentative conclusion such as that, you consider the data in more detail and check to see if there is any good reason to change your mind. If not, then it's probably just a cigar, as they say.

As for HerrNimrod's claim that the playing of "Hey Jude" should be construed as "Hey Jew"; well, I expect most forum members were able to see how that was just pure subjective imagining.

 

[Z...]

Point taken, and as usual assumptions make you an ass. In this case I just assumed after reading Nimrod's first post, that this guy who is sitting next to Camila and Lord Whatever must be a British aristocrat. Had I known he was the member of German Olympic committee I would have looked at the whole situation differently, especially the fact that he was saluting Germans - duuh

 

[Laura]

Maybe because you posted herrnimrod's analysis on your FB page?

Didn't quite understand what are you trying to imply here Perceval.

Indeed, I posted his analysis ( before this discussion on Nazi salute ensued here) with caption : "I found very interesting commentary about last night Olympic Opening Ceremony:", mostly because it reflected most of own thoughts on the ceremony, but I am wondering how is this relevant for the discussion here?

Well, people do the same thing about us here, post baseless speculation from numskulls and spread it around before anybody even bothers to check things out or THINK, for god's sake. And we have suffered a great deal from that sort of irresponsible behavior.

I feel shameful because I was one of the ones who said that this man was doing the Nazi salute.
I don't have an excuse. We tend to judge without context and this is very bad, yes indeed. I want to thank the more mature members to put me on the right track.

Why would you need to apologize or feel shameful?! The guy waves very unnatural and there is no way for us to tell what were his real intentions i.e. whether it was innocent wave or Nazi salute. Perceval is trying to say ( at least to my understanding) that Nazi salute is the least plausible explanation. In addition and rightfully so - older members of the forum are trying to discourage leaps of fanciful conspiratorial ideas but that doesn't mean you should feel ashamed. Well at least that's the way I see it.

If you don't feel shamed then you have neither consciousness nor conscience. The essence of conscience is to feel true remorse when you have harmed another. And you did harm this man whether HE knows it or not, by 1) believing and then 2) propagating ill-founded assumptions that were libelous.

 

[Laura]

Exactly, that's the whole point of networking - to try and come as close as possible to the objective truth. I am sure that even Perceval has sometimes seen conspiracy where there was none, nobody is immune to this. The bottom line is that we are learning about our perceptions and other workings of our machine.

The object is to try to come as close as possible to the truth BEFORE you blow nonsense out of your mouth! If you really were learning about your machine, you would already know that. And if you don't already know that, or how your machine, in particular, works, then you really don't have much time to get it, do you?

 

[Laura]

Now, what I came to post about in this thread before discovering the mess above was a thought I had the other day and I forgot about it until just awhile ago. And this IS gonna be a conspiracy speculation, so take it under advisement.

I think that most of us can agree that Princess Diana was "gotten rid of" because she had way too much influence over the public mind and it was feared she might use it against war-mongering (forget all that crap about whether or not she would or would not marry Dodi or have a child, etc.) The same is true for a goodly selection of other public icons who were done away with, including John Lennon.

A lot of people suggest that the date and place of Diana's accident were important symbolically speaking. I'm not sure I agree with that, I expect that the deed was done based on the preparation and opportunity. I also don't think that the royal family had anything to do with it even if Diana was writing letters that her husband might do away with her. I expect that she WAS being followed and watched, but I expect it was by those same "dark forces" that the Queen mentioned to Paul Burrell. And of course, they are perfectly happy to let the family take the rap in the conspiracy theories - it's a distraction from the real culprits.

Anyway, what I WAS thinking, since those psychopaths in power do so much like their occult symbology, maybe they will set something up to happen on the anniversary of Diana's death? That's tomorrow.

If nothing else, I just wish that the Cosmos would commemorate Diana in some way tomorrow.

 

[Gonzo]

I think Diana died just after midnight August 31. So, it would still be a month away.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if that date does get used in some way to distract from whatever attention the 15th anniversary of her death might attract.

Gonzo

 

[Laura]

I think Diana died just after midnight August 31. So, it would still be a month away.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if that date does get used in some way to distract from whatever attention the 15th anniversary of her death might attract.

Gonzo

You're right! Dunno why I was stuck on July 31st! I guess the Olympics will be over by then, yes?

 

[Laura]

Thing is, for some reason I had the strong impression that something would happen on the 31st maybe not July, maybe August, and I probably created the narrative linking it to Diana's death because it was also on th 31st, of August, though, not July. So let's see if anything happens on either date.