Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

[loreta]

I do find this latest plane incident very suspicious especially considering that it happened exactly at the same time of Israel's offensive on the Gaza strip following the extremely controversial bombings that have been taking place during the last week. It could of course just be coincidence and more symbolical in nature but it does make one wonder if there is an attempt to divert the attention from the atrocities happening in Palestine and possibly also bringing back the pressure on Russia to keep them from intervening in any way over the latest developments in the Middle East.

Or maybe black mail from Israel? In this plane there were many different nationalities...

It makes me very sad. Airplane accidents make me very, very sad.

 

[Eboard10]

I do find this latest plane incident very suspicious especially considering that it happened exactly at the same time of Israel's offensive on the Gaza strip following the extremely controversial bombings that have been taking place during the last week. It could of course just be coincidence and more symbolical in nature but it does make one wonder if there is an attempt to divert the attention from the atrocities happening in Palestine and possibly also bringing back the pressure on Russia to keep them from intervening in any way over the latest developments in the Middle East.

Or maybe black mail from Israel? In this plane there were many different nationalities...

It makes me very sad. Airplane accidents make me very, very sad.

Yes, that's my line of thought as well at the moment.

It will be interesting to see how Putin is going to react to these events.

 

[Atomas]

The last week or so has been a real nightmare for Ukraine government. Something went really wrong in their planning and ATU, or anti-terrorist units, forces started to retreat back from previously occupied positions. According to some news sites, separatists put a lot of efforts on destroying supplies to the Ukraine army which resulted into lack of food, water and man power so the later were not able to hold the previously gained positions anymore. As they started desperately to pull back leaving all heavy guns, tanks, armored vehicles (according to some witnesses - corpses or injured soldiers too) which is being picked-up by separatists who do not hesitate about that at all. The separatists started surrounding and crushing the enemy what is still left there.
A few days ago TV studio "112 Ukraine" received a call from a member of ATU: "We have left 400 people out of almost 800. Since 2:00 we have been attacked by "Grad". Around 14:00 was a mortar attack, and we even have nothing to shoot back ... We bear the loss. There are dead and wounded. Today and yesterday. No reinforcements, no food, water brought to 400 liters per 400 people, is a liter per day per person. A media write that we attack Sverdlovsk. What's that?"
The original text can be found there: _http://112.ua/mnenie/zvonok-iz-zony-ato-my-otstupaem-chetvertyy-den-88402.html

And it's not the only "interview" of such sort. I got impression from various media sites that a the majority of ATO forces consist of ordinary, mobilized man power which has been called to do their duty - they are not professionals and do not have experience in fighting. Most of them are there now because they do not have choice - they have families and in case of not obeying to given orders they will face a prison for 3 years. Majority of them do what they do because of fear and have been strongly demoralized due to recent momentum change.

Some statements from separatists leaders' have been evidenced where they say that they'll calm down only after they clean Kiev off from fascists.

So bearing in mind above, I think that Kiev desperately tries to win some time for changing its strategy, retreating the forces back and regrouping them. But more important, they need to do this in very quiet way as media is still reporting the success of ATO mission. Just thought that the recent plane crash may be very handy to them to distract people attention from the war in South-Eastern Ukraine. And to blame Russia for this at the first instance without any supporting evidence. Again.

 

[Beau]

I found this :-

_http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html

SBU intercepts phone conversations of separatists admitting downing a civilian plane

That's been released by the Kiev junta. It is highly questionable as a "source". My guess is it's entirely faked. Yeah, these guys conveniently admit to it.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I found this :-

_http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html

SBU intercepts phone conversations of separatists admitting downing a civilian plane

That's been released by the Kiev junta. It is highly questionable as a "source". My guess is it's entirely faked. Yeah, these guys conveniently admit to it.

So far, the only evidence presented or hinted at have been that phone call and the twitter/blog posts. 1) phone calls can be hoaxed. 2) websites can be hacked.

 

[Nević Nenad]

Were there any Israeli nationals on the plane? I guess no . . .

Anyway, we can only hope that this tragedy will be the shock which will wake up Ukrainians and other people and help them to see the truth. Came to my mind: "Emperor is naked" and "The man behind the curtain" . . .

 

[Beau]

Were there any Israeli nationals on the plane? I guess no . . .

Not according to the list released by Malaysia Airlines earlier today, although there are 41 "unverified" nationalities on that list.

 

[Renaissance]

Kiev forces have been shelling the Russian border and the other day killed a Russian citizen, which prompted Russia to threaten consequences.

Story here:
http://www.sott.net/article/281867-Bear-baiting-Russia-vows-response-after-Ukraine-shell-kills-1-injures-2-in-Russian-city

and here:
_http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crisis-moscow-considering-targeted-strikes-after-shell-kills-russian-civilian-1456547

So, with this latest downed plane and the Western media crying foul on Putin, it probably rules out that Russia would make any such strikes. I don't know that they would have anyway, but I think it is still relevant nonetheless in relation to such provocations.

edit to add: I've also been thinking if this was a false flag operation that the plane probably could have just been downed via remote control with few in the know.

 

[zulhelmi]

This is really shocking news. I wonder what is the symbolic message behind this. Just a week ago our exPM released a book "TPPA: Malaysia not for sale".Also Malaysia is quite vocal in supporting the Palestine.

 

[Eboard10]

http://www.sott.net/article/282119-Malaysian-flight-escorted-by-Kiev-jets-minutes-before-disappearing-from-radar

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.

Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.

ETN statement: The information in this article is independently confirmed and based on the statement of one airline controller and other tweets received.

Is there any way to know if and how the information about the air traffic controller has been verified? And what about the tweets they mention? It would literally blow the cover for the Western/Ukrainian forces.

 

[mabar]

Is there any way to know if and how the information about the air traffic controller has been verified? And what about the tweets they mention? It would literally blow the cover for the Western/Ukrainian forces.

Do not know how can it be verified, considering that many news/resources can be falsified, but I found it first in a Spanish language site, that I cannot find it again, forgot the address, UPS?, because I went to find something in English to post it here. Although, searching in Spanish language with name of the owner of the twitter Carlos. @spainbuca and Malasyan airplane, you will see plenty of conspiracy theories and/other sites quoting him.

Like this one: _http://www.sdpnoticias.com/internacional/2014/07/17/ucrania-derribo-avion-de-malasia-todo-esta-guardado-en-los-radares-presunto-controlador-aereo, the information is similar to the one posted in SOTT from eTurboNews, quoting Carlos twits.

There is also this from rt in Spanish: _http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/127516-amenazar-controlador-espanol-ucrania-crisis
An interview with him about the death threats he had received because he had been posting twits regarding the conflict in Ukraine, the news is from the 8th of May, 2014.


Added:
Do not have the twitt thingy, here are some twitts from him from other sites. Cannot see his earlier twits, just the two last ones here is one:

Carlos. @spainbuca
Por desgracia se van confirmando todo, por desgracia, me da igual en lo personal quien lanzó el misil, hay 290 personas muertas
hace about 7 hours

---unfortunately everything is being confirmed, unfortunately, personally I do not care who shoot the misil, there are 290 dead people

And here are others from other sites:

"✈ Carlos. @spainbuca
Follow
Nada más desaparecer el avión B 777 de Malaysia Airlines la autoridad militar de kiev nos informo del derribo, como lo sabían?
12:00 PM - 17 Jul 2014"

--- Nothing more dissapearing the airplane B 777 form Malaysia Airlines the militar authority of Kiev told us about the shot down, how did they knew?


✈ Carlos. @spainbuca
Follow
El ministro del interior si conocía que, hacían los cazas en la zona, el ministro de defensa no, .
1:29 PM - 17 Jul 2014

--- The interior minister did known that, what were doing the fighter planes in the area, the defense minister didn't.

✈ Carlos. @spainbuca
Follow
El avión B 777 voló escoltado por 2 cazas de ukraine hasta minutos antes, de desaparecer de los radares,
11:48 AM - 17 Jul 2014

--- The B 777 plane fly being scorted by two fighter planes of ukraine until minutes before, came off radars

✈ Carlos. @spainbuca
Follow
Hace dias lo dije aquí, militares de kiev querían alzarse contra el actual presidente, esto puede ser una forma, a las órdenes de timoshenko
1:36 PM - 17 Jul 2014

--- I said it here days ago, militars from kiev wanted to arise against the actual president, this can be a way, from the order of timoshenko

✈ Carlos. @spainbuca
Follow
Militares confirman que fue ukraine, pero se sigue sin saber de donde vino la orden
1:31 PM - 17 Jul 2014

--- Militars confrim that it was ukraine, but still not knowing from where the order came from

✈ Carlos. @spainbuca
Follow
Aquí los mandos militares manejan y admiten que militares a otras órdenes, pudieron ser, pero no, los pro-rusos
1:15 PM - 17 Jul 2014

--- Here the militar command move and admit that militars to other orders, could be, but no, the pro-rusian

It has the same writting style as the one from RT

✈ Carlos. @spainbuca
Seguir
Un medio como @La_SER puede contrastar diferentes opiniones, pero dar voz en @hora25 a persona q en su Block pide mi muerte es lamentable 1/
6:57 AM - 4 Mayo 2014

--- A media like @La_SER can contrast different opinions, but give voice in @hora25 a person that in his Block want my dead is unfortunated

 

[H-KQGE]

I'm in agreement with others about the timing of this Malaysian airplane.

Everyone is aware of the months-long anti-Russian propaganda campaign by the US and EU governments. The latest effort in that campaign can be seen in this headline, which is one of many on the same theme coming out of the Western media:

"Britain calls for UN Security Council meeting over Flight MH17 as pressure mounts on Putin over 'arming rebels' in Ukraine"

Am I saying that agents of Western governments are responsible for the deliberate shooting down of Flight MH17 as part of their 'asymmetric warfare' against Russia and its reemergence as a major power on the world stage in opposition to the American Empire and its puppets?

Damn right I am. That's how the psychopaths roll. It's pathetic, they are getting extremely desperate to pull off a horrible stunt like this.

Man, I'm getting all hot and bothered about this now myself. My thoughts? Well in no particular order, there's Rupert Murdoch and the Fox news potential "takeover" of Time Warner ( a super multinational conglomerate owning basically all media) http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jul/16/rupert-murdoch-time-warner-bid-21st-century-fox

Then there's this utterly incredible, totally despicable piece (the quotes show things are about to seriously blow up if you can get away with saying this) http://www.sott.net/article/282141-Hitler-mentality-Mothers-of-all-Palestinians-must-be-killed-sez-Israeli-MP and as the comment says.. "she looks so young too." And Joe's latest article was very timely. I bet some of those Zionists would love to paint the doors of Israelis with the blood of their dead (Angel of the Lord guff) so as to drop guided missiles on their houses. Next.

http://www.sott.net/article/282143-We-re-all-Palestinians-Protests-worldwide-demand-end-to-Gaza-slaughter

Worldwide protests must be sending the whackos even more whacko. I bet those slogans would be pretty potent in the minds of the masses... if we could see them enough on the MSM. Dot connecting? "Nothing to see here... move along people."

Then there's the growing very real threat of the BRICS association - http://www.sott.net/article/282136-Putins-six-day-tour-of-Latin-America-ends-with-creation-of-BRICS-and-signing-of-energy-agreements-as-opposition-to-Western-powers-gains-strength

And what about this? These things are getting pointed out more regularly so rather than say, "offing" them, you do all of the above and more... http://www.sott.net/article/282137-Ex-US-presidential-candidate-Zionists-control-US-political-apparatus

Then there's the article on 19% of Americans backing the government. As the article rightly asks, "why?"

Finally, there's the on going paedo madness that must be quelled. - http://www.sott.net/article/282121-Senior-advisor-to-British-government-responsible-for-instituting-online-porn-filter-that-blocks-20-of-ALL-websites-arrives-in-court-to-face-kiddie-porn-charges

And the Q&A backlash on the Israeli ambassador on Twitter. So yeah, the timing and the fact that there's another Malaysian plane in the middle of Ukraine - Russia, is highly symbolic since there were inter/hyperdimensional influences last time.

 

[Altair]

It can be only ukrainian unprofessional and disorganized army as it was the case with a russian airliner a couple of years ago which was shot down during militar drills of the ukrainian army. Cause you need either a jetfighter or surface-to-air missiles to shoot down a jet at 10000 m height. Yet Poroshenko claims now it was a russian terror act.

My 2 cents

 

[axj]

An interesting article (in Russian) that adds a few pieces to the puzzle:

_http://voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/2965-mehanizm-provokacii.html

If that information is correct, then that Malaysian flight was directed by the Ukrainian air traffic controllers further and further north each day - until it passed right through the conflict region.

 

[Anthony]

Post by Vladimir Suchan on FB.

Another interesting and relevant piece to the puzzle of LH 17 downed south-east of Donetsk:
on July 15, the Kiev regime suspended its flights over east Ukraine after losing a plane.
But then, in the afternoon of July 16, Ukrainian troops resumed flights of military aircraft over
Donetsk and Lugansk, and especially over Saur-Mogila, which is relatively close to LH 17 crash site,
a spokesman for the Ukrainian national security service reported. The flights were suspended on
Tuesday after the downing of a transport plane in Lugansk Region. The resumption was confirmed
by militia sources, which said airstrikes were being delivered near Saur-Mogila Hill in Donetsk region.
The next day, July 18, LH 17 was directed by Ukrainian air controllers over the very zone where
Ukrainian military aircraft were operating.

_http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-army-operation-680/

And one by Alexander Mercouris.

MALAYSIAN AIRCRAFT SHOT DOWN

Rather than speculate about why the aircraft may have been shot down it
might be more appropriate to discuss who had the capability to do it.

1. There was some talk a few days ago that the NAF had captured some Buk antii aircraft missiles.
I have never seen any photographic evidence of this. Even if they did would they have the knowledge or training to use them?
These are sophisticated weapons that are integrated into a complex air defence system that includes radar
stations and command and control vehicles. Certainly not the sort of weapons one can learn how to use in a
few days even if a whole complete system had fallen into NAF hands, which seems unlikely.

2. The NAF now say they only have short range man portable anti aircraft missiles. This seems far more likely
and I have heard on BBC television an expert from Jane's Defence Weekly who has said the same thing.
It seems these missiles simply lack the range to hit an aircraft at the altitude the Malaysian airliner was flying.

3. By contrast the Junta undoubtedly does have Buk anti aircraft missiles with the necessary range
in its arsenal and there are reports that it moved some of these weapons into the warzone yesterday possibly in
response to reports (almost certainly untrue) that one of its SU25s was shot down by a Russian fighter.
There is also a report that the Junta actually closed the airspace over the battle area to air traffic some 3 days ago,
which if true begs the question of what the Malaysian airliner was doing there. If one thing has become blindingly obvious
over the last few weeks it is that the Junta's troops though heavily armed are poorly trained and very trigger happy
whilst episodes like the Kiev sniper saga show how ruthless and cynical some of the people involved in the junta are.

4. It seems inherently more likely therefore that airliner was shot down by the Junta's military either by accident or
intentionally. There is a very small possibility that it might have been shot down by the Russian air defence system
but the aircraft was in Ukrainian air space, there is no evidence that the Russians have ever shot down any
Ukrainian aircraft (even those that have been seen crossing over into their territory) and frankly I think the Russian air defence
is nowadays too well organised and professional to make this sort of mistake.

5. The working hypothesis therefore is that the junta's forces shot the airliner down. There will now be an
investigation which ought to be run by the Malaysians. Apparently the NAF is cooperating fully with them and is
doing what it can to retrieve and hand over the flight recorder and black box. Hopefully we should have some
clarity about this incident soon enough.

In the meantime it is important to remember that this is first and foremost a terrible human tragedy.
My feelings go out to the victims and their families