Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine


The Living Force
Source (Dutch only): Hoofdverdachte MH17 sluit gang naar Nederlandse rechter niet uit

DeepL Translator said:
Main suspect MH17 does not rule out going to a Dutch court

Igor Girkin, the main suspect of the shooting down of flight MH17, takes into account that he will appear before a Dutch judge. 'That possibility cannot be ruled out at all', he says in an interview with a Russian newspaper.

Tom Vennink 16 August 2019, 18:22

Igor Girkin is one of the prime suspects in the investigation into the MH17 disaster. Image REUTERS

It is the first time that Girkin answers questions about the lawsuit against him that will start next spring in the Netherlands. During the disaster with MH17 he was the highest military official of the separatists.

Although he doesn't rule out his visit to the Netherlands, he doesn't consider it very likely. First of all, he is 'under no circumstances' prepared to surrender himself to the Dutch authorities. In addition, 'such a development is not in the interest of the Russian authorities', Girkin says in the interview with the daily Moskovsky Komsomolets [in Russian].

A change of power in the Kremlin can change this, he realizes. 'If other forces take over power, the situation will probably change for me.' It's not clear what he means by that; the Russian constitution forbids the extradition of its own nationals.

Russian involvement

Girkin does not answer the question of who, according to him, shot the aircraft of Malaysia Airlines out of the sky. He only repeats that the separatists did not do it. Unlike the Russian authorities, he refrains from making accusations against the Ukrainian army. By doing so, he keeps open the possibility that soldiers from the Russian army can be held responsible for the downing of the plane.

In the interview, he says on several occasions that he has information about Russian involvement in the annexation of the Crimea and with the war in Eastern Ukraine, which the authorities want to be kept secret. 'Many people would like me to remain silent for ever instead of ending up in all kinds of interrogations.'

Girkin's remarks about the murder of Aleksandr Zakhartsjenko [in Dutch], the former leader of the rebel republic of Donetsk in the east of Ukraine, are also striking. The Russian government says that the Ukrainian security service is behind the bombing. Girkin says that the murder would have been impossible 'without the participation of people who have ties with, let's say, influential Russian circles.'

Girkin has been staying in Moscow since his departure as Secretary of Defense of the Separatists. He regularly criticizes President Putin's domestic and foreign policy. According to Girkin, Putin should have 'reunited' eastern Ukraine with Russia, following the annexation of the Crimea. 'He has missed a unique opportunity that perhaps only occurs once a century,' Girkin says in the interview.

Translated with


The Living Force
Source: MH17 relatives foundation criticises Malaysian PM for sowing doubts -

MH17 relatives foundation criticizes Malaysian PM for sowing doubts

August 30, 2019

A foundation representing the families of people who died in the MH17 plane disaster has written to the Malaysian prime minister Mahathir Mohamad urging him to stop spreading doubts and confusion about the investigation.

The Malaysian Airlines plane was on its way from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it was shot down over eastern Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board in July 2014.

‘With your comments you are trying to sow divisions and, more than that, you are not serving the interests of the relatives, the Malaysian relatives in particular,’ the letter said. ‘In addition, you are sowing confusion about the real position taken by the Malaysian government and its representatives on the JIT investigation.’

Read the letter, in English. [PDF-file]

Mahathir said in June that he had doubts about whether the aircraft was shot down by a Russian Buk missile and that the investigation was trying to make Russia look bad.

The foundation points out that Malaysia backed a UN resolution on the disaster and [its] cooperation with the team investigating what happened. By making his comments Mahathir is ‘continually casting doubt on the integrity and independence of the investigation,’ the letter stated.

In May 2018, the Netherlands and Australia said they are holding Russia liable for its role in the shooting down of flight MH17 in July 2014. The decision to hold Russia responsible follows on from a report by investigators looking into the crash, who said the Buk missile which brought down the plane was fired by a weapons system in the hands of a Russian brigade. Russia has consistently denied any involvement.

Similar coverage:
MH17 relatives ask Malaysian PM to "stop spreading doubts and divisions"

Sources in Dutch:
MH17-nabestaanden vragen premier Maleisië 'geen verdeeldheid te zaaien'
Nabestaanden MH17 schrijven Maleisische premier brief: stop met verdeeldheid zaaien
(includes a facsimile of the Dutch version of the letter)


The Living Force
CAUTION: the following may be fake news as it is mainly based on hearsay, conjecture and innuendo.

Source (Dutch only): (two illustrations omitted)

DeepL Translator said:

Vladimir Tsemach, the commander who was arrested in June and who could play
an important role in the MH17 process. © private

"Russia wants key witness MH17."

Russia would like to add the possible key witness in the MH17 trial, Vladimir Tsemach, to the list of prisoners that Ukraine and Russia are likely to exchange next week.

Joost Bosman 01-09-19, 18:45 Last update: 20:01

Three different sources report this: the Ukrainian parliamentarian Mustafa Najem, the Ukrainian editor-in-chief Yuri Bozetoesov of and the independent Russian news site The Insider.

Tsemach may be important for the MH17 case: he stated earlier in an interview that he had helped to hide the Russian BUK rocket that took down the aircraft with 298 passengers. Tsemach will probably be the only witness who can tell his story. That's why Russia would be keen on his extradition, according to the sources.

Ukrainian commandos managed to kidnap Tsemach on 29 June, deep in the self-proclaimed, pro-Russian People's Republic of Donetsk (DNR), and take him to Kiev. Tsemach was the commander of a DNR air defense unit near Snizjne, where the BUK was fired at MH17. He is still in detention on remand.

If Kiev agrees to his extradition to Russia, an explosive situation will arise between Ukraine and the Netherlands: the Dutch judge will probably want to speak to Tsemach during the upcoming MH17 trial that will start at Schiphol in March. If the story is true, it is curious: Tsemach is a Ukrainian citizen, so Russia has no formal reason to want him. The motive seems clear: if he is taken to Russia, he will certainly not testify.

The discussions on the exchange of prisoners are taking place behind closed doors. It is therefore difficult to determine whether Moscow has really made the demand about Tsemach. Najem says from Kiev, when asked, that he 'knows nothing more than what he has written on Telegram'. He doesn't want to reveal his sources, but says that they are reliable.


Sources from The Insider near the negotiating table say that without him Moscow would even cancel the exchange. The same sources say that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky would be willing to cooperate in the extradition of the possible key witness in order for the deal to go ahead anyway.

Last Friday, after a conversation between Zelensky and his Russian colleague Vladimir Putin, it began to buzz that a large exchange of prisoners was imminent. On the Ukrainian side, the film director Oleg Sentsov and 24 sailors were said to be involved.

The Russian navy overpowered the latter at the end of November, after Ukrainian and Russian battleships had clashed on the sea of Azov (near the Crimea). On the Russian side the Ukrainian-Russian journalist Kirill Vyshinsky, suspected of espionage, is on the verge of being sent home.

Several Ukrainian media reported on Friday morning that the deal was done and some of the prisoners had even already been put on the plane. The spokesman of the Ukrainian secret service SBOe then wrote on Facebook that there was no agreement yet. According to Najem and Buttuesov, the delay was caused by the fact that Moscow came up with the condition about Tsemach at the eleventh hour.

The Insider writes that Tsemach's testimony will bring the MH17 trial into a new phase. It forces Moscow to send lawyers to the Netherlands to publicly defend the Russian position. If Tsemach doesn't testify, Moscow will be able to ignore the trial much more easily, according to The Insider.

The Public Prosecutor's Office was not available for comment on Sunday. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs explains that it is 'not up to the Netherlands to make statements about this'.

Translated with

Identical coverage in Dutch here:
‘Rusland wil kroongetuige MH17 hebben’


The Living Force
Very annoying this doubling down on earlier lies. Obviously no-one of the pre-programmed mindless but overly righteous Dutch remembers there were also Malaysian victims!
From the letter:
‘With your comments you are trying to sow divisions and, more than that, you are not serving the interests of the relatives, the Malaysian relatives in particular,’ the letter said. ‘In addition, you are sowing confusion about the real position taken by the Malaysian government and its representatives on the JIT investigation.’


The Living Force
That's even worse though, defending the relatives against the truth.
You're right but you have to remember those relatives and their organization are spellbound via propaganda and the exploiting of deeply felt emotions; much like most Americans are/were after 9/11. In a way this MH17 disaster works for some --or even most-- of the Dutch as 9/11 did for the American people: the mechanisms are similar and they produce the same results, i.e. the conviction to know what happened and acting accordingly.

Moreover, most of what we have gathered here in this thread and elsewhere isn't known to the greater public anyway nor easily accessible to them and therefore you cannot even blame them for their ignorance or arrogance. As sad as it is... :-(


The Living Force
It now has emerged that Fred Westerbeke, head of the public prosecutor's office (OM) and coordinator of JIT, has sent a letter to the Ukraine authorities formally pleading to keep Vladimir Tsemach available for questioning by the international investigation team.

Source (Dutch only): OM wil voorkomen dat Oekraïne MH17-verdachte uitlevert aan Rusland

DeepL Translator said:
OM wants to prevent Ukraine from extraditing MH17 suspect to Russia

03 September 2019 03:59 Adjusted: 03 September 2019 07:04

The Dutch Public Prosecution Service has asked Ukraine to keep MH17 suspect Vladimir Tsemach available for questioning by the international investigation team. The Ministry of Justice wants to prevent Tsemach from being handed over to Russia in an upcoming exchange of prisoners.

In a letter OM chief officer Fred Westerbeke writes that it is 'of the utmost importance' that Tsemach remains available for interrogation. On the basis of new information the OM now considers Tsemach to be a 'suspect', he writes.

Westerbeke is the coordinator of the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) that investigates the downing of flight MH17. The letter is published on the Ukrainian news site theBabel [in Ukrainian; facsimile of the Dutch letter in English].

Head of air defense

Tsemach was the military commander of the pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine. He is said to have been in charge of the Snizhne air defense, near the site from which the Buk rocket was fired on 17 July 2014, shooting Flight MH17.

Since the end of June, the 58-year-old former separatist commander has been in a Ukrainian cell after being abducted from rebel territory by a special unit.

Prisoner exchange

Russian and Ukrainian media recently reported that Russia would like to involve Ukrainian citizen Tsemach in a prisoner exchange with Ukraine.

Since Russia denies having been involved in bringing down flight MH17, an exchange could make the investigation more difficult.

Translated with

Other coverage in Dutch:
Nederlandse OM wil voorkomen dat Oekraïne MH17-getuige naar Rusland stuurt


The Living Force
Source (Dutch only):

DeepL Translator said:
European politicians send Ukraine an urgent letter about MH17 suspect

In a letter to Ukrainian President Volodimir Zelensky, forty European politicians have called for a major suspect in the MH17 disaster not to be extradited to Moscow.

Foreign editors 04-09-19, 17:57

This is reported by Labor Party MEP Kati Piri, who took the initiative to write the letter. Last week, the Dutch Public Prosecution Service asked Ukraine to keep Vladimir Tsemach, a former commander of the pro-Russian separatists, available for the Netherlands during the investigation into the crash.

Russia wants to involve Tsemach, who was arrested in June, in an exchange of prisoners with Ukraine. "It is a bizarre request from Russia to ask for the extradition of a Ukrainian citizen", says Piri. "It suggests that the Russian government is determined to prevent this suspect from appearing in court."

According to her, it is important that "by interrogating this accused, justice can be done to the victims and survivors of the air disaster". Flight MH17 crashed in East Ukraine in July 2014. All 298 occupants were killed, including 196 Dutch.

Translated with

Similar coverage (in Dutch):
Politici EU sturen Oekraïne brandbrief over uitruil MH17-verdachte

The letter in English:–-MH17-Suspect-Tsemakh-040919.pdf


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
The top leadership of Malaysia is not going to change its stance and continues saying that there is no evidence to blame Russia for the MH 17 tragedy in eastern Ukraine.

On September 5, Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad repeated that there is no sufficient evidence to blame Russia for the tragedy since some of the findings of the Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) do not seem “quite right”.

The minister also said that present evidence was “insufficient” to identify the responsible party.

The fact that the accusations against Russia regarding the MH17 came is not based on any real evidence and a part of the is an obvious forgery are an open secret. However, mainstream media and Western diplomats continue to ignore the reality because the ‘Russia is guilty’ mantra helps them to pursue own political goals.

Vladimir Tsemakh ANNA News
Ukrainian intelligence services abducted Vladimir Tsemakh, the former commander of the Snezhnoye air defense forces in the DPR, from the territory of the Donetsk People’s Republic, his relatives and lawyer said. Ukrainian media called the abducted officer an important witness to the crash of the Boeing passenger airliner flight MH17 in 2014.

“On June 27 he was abducted, I came home from work and saw that there was a fight in the house, all purchases from the market were scattered around the apartment, there was a bloodied towel and blood stains at the entrance,” said the wife of the kidnapped.

According to sources, the agents broke into the house, probably pumped up Tsemakh with drugs and, under the guise of a paralyzed person with false documents, delivered him through the Mayorsk checkpoint to Kiev-controlled territory.

Vladimir Tzemakh “On June 28, on the day of the constitution of Ukraine, he was taken to Kiev, and on June 29, the Shevchenkovsky District Court of Kiev decided to arrest him for two months, the date of appeal has not yet been set,” the lawyer of the detainee Roman Gontarev told the BBC.

Tsemakh’s daughter Maria also said that the kidnapped person was sent to custody on charges of terrorism, which threatens him with 8 to 15 years in prison. Probably they want to hang a downed Boeing on her father.

Vladimir Tzemakh was listed as "the head of air defense in Snezhnoye since 2014." However, according to her daughter, the appointment took place in the fall, and in summer her father was an ordinary military man. But Ukrainian media are now writing about Vladimir Tzemakh as a likely "valuable witness" in the case of the crash of flight MH-17.

“When the Boeing was shot down, it was not a key figure - an ordinary military man, he simply stood at the checkpoint. He went out to fight, like all the supporters of peaceful life on our land, ”explained Maria Zemakh.

On July 17, 2014, a Malaysia Airlines passenger airliner, flight MH17 was shot down by a missile over the Donetsk region in eastern Ukraine, in the area of clashes between Ukrainian troops and militias.

downed Malaysian Boeing MH-17 The International Investigation Team (JIT), led by experts from the Netherlands, claims that the rocket allegedly belonged to the Russian army, was brought to the territory of Donbass to militias who allegedly hit the Boeing.

The Russian Ministry of Defense stated that not a single Russian anti-aircraft system crossed the border with Ukraine, the JIT investigation did not take into account real facts, objective monitoring data and testimonies of residents near the crash site, according to which, the rocket was launched from territory controlled by the Ukrainian military. The missile belonged to Ukraine’s air defense units.

Deep State retorts



The Living Force
Thank you both for your contributions. :cool2:
@c.a. The article about Vladimir Tsemak from ANNAnews didn't come through unscathed:
downed Malaysian Boeing MH-17 The International Investigation Team (JIT), led by experts from the Netherlands, claims that the rocket allegedly belonged to the Russian army, was brought to the territory of Donbass to militias who allegedly hit the Boeing.
Something seems to be missing at the front of this sentence/paragraph but I couldn't make out what exactly as the original is in a language I didn't recognize.

New update: Ukraine releases MH17 suspect from custody

Ukraine releases MH17 suspect from custody

By Janene Pieters on September 5, 2019 - 11:45

The court of appeal in Kiev, Ukraine decided to release Vladimir Tsemach from custody, Ukrainian news agency Interfax-Ukraine reports. Tsemach was a commander for the self proclaimed pro-Russian Donetsk People's Republic. The Public Prosecution Service in the Netherlands wants to question him in connection with the downing of flight MH17.

Tsemach previously stated in an interview that he helped hide the Russian BUK missile with which flight MH17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine on 17 July 2014, according to Het Parool. All 298 people on board, including 196 Dutch, were killed. The expectation is that he will be called to testify in the trial against four men suspected of involvement in the downing of the plane, which will start at the high security court at Schiphol in March next year.

The former commander was supposed to form part of an extensive prisoner exchange between Russia and the Ukraine. That exchange will happen "in the near future", Russian president Vladimir Putin said at an economic conference in Vladivostok, the Financial Times reports. "We will soon finalize our talks. It will be a large-scale exchange", Putin said. He added that the exchange will be "something of a compass" for Russia's relations with Ukraine. "It is inevitable that we will normalize our relations... as we are two parts of the same people."

On Monday Dutch Public Prosecutor Fred Westerbeke said in a letter that it is "of the utmost importance" that Tsemach remains available for the MH17 trial, according to NOS. Extraditing him to Russia would complicate the criminal procedure, because Russia is a party in the conflict, the Prosecutor said.

What Tsemach's release means for the trial is not yet clear. The Joint Investigation Team has not yet responded to his release.

Ukrainian soldiers managed to take Tsemach into custody in June, smuggling him from the Dontesk People's Republic and transferring him to Kiev. Tsemach was the commander of a DNR anti-aircraft unit near Snizhne, from where the BUK missile was fired at MH17.
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