Mehran Keshe and Keshe Foundation Game Changer or Scam?

[trendsetter37]

In that case, how does one complete an electrical circuit with only one wire, and it is clear there are no other wires coming from anywhere else? There are always people who make the claim that there is some sort of trickery involved as such a thing can not possibly work as claimed. Most often, they are right, but that doesn't mean they always are.

Removing the ground wire and then sticking it somewhere else in the ground illustrates that the wire doesn't lead to an AC power source. This would all take place on camera of course, but to be clear I am not saying that it has to work without the ground, only that it would show that it is not connected to some other device underground.

And you do not need a "closed circuit" for AC to work.

__http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/74625/does-alternating-current-ac-require-a-complete-circuit

My issue is that they all assume that AC requires a complete circuit in order to function. However, my understanding is that a complete circuit is necessary for DC, but not AC. My intuitive understanding is that AC is similar to two gas-filled rooms with a pump between them - the pump couldn't indefinitely pump gas from one room to another without a complete circuit (DC), but it could pump the gas back and forth indefinitely (AC). In the latter case, not having a complete circuit just offers more resistance to the pump (with smaller rooms causing a larger resistance).

{snip}

__http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/74625/does-alternating-current-ac-require-a-complete-circuit#74999

{snipped greek}

So you're dead right in your question: there is no need for a closed conduction path, but instead we have the more general concept of the total current - conduction and displacement - contributing to the continuity equation rather than only the conduction current. Where the conduction current leaves off at the plates of a capacitor, the displacement current "takes over" to make sure that the continuity equation stays fulfilled.

{snip}

TLDR, Wearing shoes will not help if you touch an exposed live AC wire, however it is a different story with DC as long as your body isn't a better source to ground than the rest of the circuit. Well...let's also assume we are talking about voltages that are not high enough to arc.

At least that's what I got from the above exchange, along with personal experiences.

A visual example of what AC can do with only "one wire". I.e. the metallic section going to ground.

That is a reverse example of what I state above but it's still an example of an "open circuit" using AC. The point being that AC does not need two physical connection for power to flow so it is still a valid request to show that an AC power source doesn't exist. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Richs]

News item about Keshe devices from November 26, 2015:

Customer receives Keshe Magrav, initial output is same as input

We're still coming up empty either on finding reports of purchased and received Magrav systems that produce excess energy, or of replications of these systems per the plans, which produce excess energy. How long is the "conditioning" period?

by Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News

Since around July of this year, the Keshe Foundation has been selling (taking pre-orders) a "Magrav" system that they claim can power your house; and a similar one that can power your car.

Sterling Allan is now in jail and was convicted as being part of a pedophile ring which involves many high level officials in Europe. From the reports, he has apparently 'sung like a canary' in naming his accomplices, who are mostly still at large. He was also part of the group hired by these people to discredit and delay as much as possible the Keshe technology. You can find lots of disparaging material on the web posted by this paid ring of detractors.

There have been quite a few thousands of these units delivered to customers around the world, although mostly in Europe, and while there have been a fairly small percentage of units that were defective in some way, especially early on when the training of workers was perhaps not up to par, and there was a 'learning curve' to the manufacturing process, they do work as advertised. They were never marketed as Generators, but as power systems that would greatly reduce the electricity needed from the grid to power a house.

You would think that if so many of these devices were sold to consumers over approximately a year's time that they would have been shut down by now and Keshe arrested for fraud. Instead, there are plenty of satisfied customers who are not complaining at all about reduced power bills.
Everyone who received a defective unit had theirs replaced by the factory with a unit that worked OK.

Most people don't bother with publicly endorsing products and sending in testimonials, but you can find some here: https://testimonials.keshefoundation.org/?cat=3

I quite understand that many are finding it difficult to accept that there is a new technology and science behind it which is totally different than what is commonly known. The reason I have been following these developments is that it is plainly evident that these things will have a very great effect upon so many aspects of the way things are done.

 

[flashgordonv]

Yes, it was rather disappointing that Douglas forgot one of the most important parts needed to do the demonstration.

Hi Richard
I have been following this thread with some interest. What I am at a loss to understand is why you seem so totally invested in this technology, to the extent that you are the chief apologist for it on the forum, to the extent of making excuses for the obvious failures.

Lets consider the quote above - "Douglas forgot one of the most important parts needed for the demonstration". How is this even possible? Look, I spent my working career selling high value networking equipment to telcos and ISPs, and that involved lost of important demonstrations and presentations. When we prepared for these events, there was a huge focus on process and logistics - what we were going to demonstrate, how we were going to demonstrate it, what we needed to be able to do a successful demonstration. In many cases we rehearsed it, sometimes over and over again. We were list driven, the engineers I worked with were anal. We knew what we needed, and what and how we were going to show off our technology. There was no way we EVER turned up for a demonstration or a presentation without the necessaries. it is inconceivable to me that somebody going to do such an important demonstration could leave the "starter motor"at home.

So, why are you so invested in the technology? So invested that you are prepared to ignore what is seeming to be more and more obvious - that these guys cannot actually do a live demonstration which is open and above board? Have you lost your objectivity?

Again, I come from a sales background. You sound like a motivated positive sales guy, putting a positive spin on everything, refusing to accept any negative perspective and coming across as absolutely convinced that this is a new and revolutionary technology. If I was looking for a new sales person, I'd be interested in hiring you. If you were their sales manager, I could understand it as you would have a financial incentive tied to its success. Do you have a financial investment in this?

I am bemused. Why are you so invested in this technology?

 

[Richs]

News item about Keshe devices from August 12, 2015:

Keshe timeline of lack of success

Documenting M.T. Keshe's long thread of promises of delivery with postponements and no delivery, ultimately, for previous products announced. Buyer beware of his newest product announcement, for which he is taking payment, but hasn't delivered any product yet, for it is not made yet.

{snip}

Here is the message Clay forwarded.

Keshe is not exactly “selling” these devices. He is taking orders and money. The situation is quite similar to his “3-4 kw plasma generators”, which he started “selling” in 2011, and never delivered. He delayed the delivery about 15 times over several years, until most people forgot about the topic. I kept explicit track of the first 8 delays (source links for the quotes can be found in the second forum thread linked to below):

Keshe originally announced these generators in April 2011:

The Foundation submits for sale as of today for delivery early next year [2012] the following:

Portable 3-4 KW power systems on DC and AC 24 hours a day supply for the value of 5000 euros.

(Keshe on 04/11/2011)

Later he postponed the delivery from early 2012 to December 2012 (1st delay). He repeatedly confirmed this date throughout 2012, until December 21st (2nd delay):

[W]e have redesigned and corrected a number of systems in the reactor in order to comply with all international laws with respect to the use and safety of the systems.

Because of these adjustments, we have to delay the delivery of the systems by 45-60 days from 31.12.2012.

(Keshe on 12/21/2012)

He didn’t keep this date (about end of February) either (3rd delay):

Due to delivery from suppliers for some parts of the new [vacuum] seal systems we are behind the testing and releasing the generators.

Once we receive the newly manufactured parts in the second week of March from the manufactures: It will take us another 15 to 30 days to test and finally release the generators.

(Keshe on 02/26/2013)

He didn’t keep this date (about mid April) either (4th delay):

The non-nuclear reactor that is the basis of the power generator was received from the manufacturers this week.

The reactor will be put through the setting and start-up processes in the next 2- 3 weeks.

Following this the Foundation starts the full testing of the new system and during this phase starts developing the plasma in the core using the non-nuclear material core.

We will report the results to the forum by the end of May.

(Keshe on 04/17/2013)

At this point he stops talking about an actual delivery date (although he was allegedly already in the mass production phase months before, and has collected tens of thousands of Euros in deposit payments) and promises only “test results”.

He didn’t keep this date (end of May) either (5th delay):

Actually in next four weeks we should be going into the test mode, and about three, four weeks later we should be able to show, I hope, the first video.

(Keshe on 05/22/2013)

He didn’t keep this date (about mid July) either (6th delay):

The reactor is now going through initial testing and then test for full load will start in the coming weeks.

We should be able to confirm the testing process, results and the working of the systems with release of videos in the next 6-8 weeks.

(Keshe on 07/19/2013)

He didn’t keep this date (about mid September) either (7th delay):

The work with the new non- nuclear reactor for production of energy starts today after 4 weeks of redesigning the reactor systems.

We shall post the results in the coming weeks.

(Keshe on 10/17/2013)

The term “coming weeks” is rather vague, but a timeframe of about one to four weeks would probably be a reasonable association. A timeframe of more than two months is IMO definitely not covered by the colloquial meaning of “coming weeks” (among other things because it is already in the range of “coming months”). Therefore:

He didn’t keep this date (about mid November) either (8th delay):

The Keshe Foundation will make full disclosure about test results and the delivery of the non-nuclear power generator on 19,12,2013.

I hope all will be satisfied with our disclosure about power generator.

(Keshe on 11/19/2013)

As I mentioned above, this continued a couple of more times, until most people forgot about the topic. There never was an actually working generator.

The same will happen with the new systems. The delays and excuses will probably start around the end of September.

Keshe will never deliver any working technology (beyond worthless toys like his “CO2 capture kit”), because he doesn’t have any. He doesn’t have the slightest clue of science, and his theories are utter nonsense. In 2012 he imposed his legendary “USB stick” on a couple of countries (around 20) via their embassies in Belgium. The content of this very USB-Stick, allegedly containing all or at least the key parts of Keshe’s miraculous secret knowledge, was finally published in 2014. It turned out to be completely worthless, as all of Keshe’s pseudoscientific ideas. Nobody accomplished anything with it.

While it is true that the power systems promised were never delivered, it would have been a bit more honest for Sterling to state the reason these systems were never delivered. The fact is the Belgian government quashed any and all development work and sales of the Keshe Foundation items. The former king met with Mr. Keshe and wanted the rights to all his stuff for what is reported as a million Euros. When he was refused he bagan a systematic attack on Keshe and no progress at all in any direction could be made until he escaped to Italy. He had done this to other scientists and it seems he had some of them 'offed' to get what he wanted from them.

If anyone thinks this is just a bunch of 'excuses' perhaps they can try to develop and spread widely a similar technology and see just how easy it would be.

 

[Richs]

Yes, it was rather disappointing that Douglas forgot one of the most important parts needed to do the demonstration.

Hi Richard
I have been following this thread with some interest. What I am at a loss to understand is why you seem so totally invested in this technology, to the extent that you are the chief apologist for it on the forum, to the extent of making excuses for the obvious failures.

Perhaps you have forgotten that this Forum's purpose is dedicated to the search for knowledge and truth, both within ourselves and of the outer world. Despite what some people may have as an impression that I am just a misguided believer because somebody says so, this is really a 'research project' I have undertaken for many years, that is, researching and discovering all I can about new sciences and technologies.

I also feel qualified to state my objective assessment of the technology as I have done technical work most of my life and have been trained as an electrician for a major oil company and a communications equipment technician for the military. After this long period of studying this technology I have come to the assessment that both the science and technology are valid and workable.

Does this turn me into an "apologist"?

Don't you think I would be remiss in my obligation to the group to report what I see and observe?

Lets consider the quote above - "Douglas forgot one of the most important parts needed for the demonstration". How is this even possible? Look, I spent my working career selling high value networking equipment to telcos and ISPs, and that involved lost of important demonstrations and presentations. When we prepared for these events, there was a huge focus on process and logistics - what we were going to demonstrate, how we were going to demonstrate it, what we needed to be able to do a successful demonstration. In many cases we rehearsed it, sometimes over and over again. We were list driven, the engineers I worked with were anal. We knew what we needed, and what and how we were going to show off our technology. There was no way we EVER turned up for a demonstration or a presentation without the necessaries. it is inconceivable to me that somebody going to do such an important demonstration could leave the "starter motor"at home.

So, why are you so invested in the technology? So invested that you are prepared to ignore what is seeming to be more and more obvious - that these guys cannot actually do a live demonstration which is open and above board? Have you lost your objectivity?

I would most certainly not be here in the Forum if I were not being as objective as humanly possible!

Again, I come from a sales background. You sound like a motivated positive sales guy, putting a positive spin on everything, refusing to accept any negative perspective and coming across as absolutely convinced that this is a new and revolutionary technology. If I was looking for a new sales person, I'd be interested in hiring you. If you were their sales manager, I could understand it as you would have a financial incentive tied to its success. Do you have a financial investment in this?

I am bemused. Why are you so invested in this technology?

You don't seem to get that all of us are in deep ^@%*. Today's article on SOTT makes it clear that if the electric grid breaks down we are in a world of trouble none of us have seen. Perhaps if we all had individual home devices which supplied all our needs things might be a bit better? Please stop being so bemused. There are very practical reasons for my interest.

Furthermore, I fully expected the reactions I have gotten here by bringing up this topic. Which one of you would have 'weathered the storm' I have been subjected to by many here without reacting in anger or being uncivil? Bottom line: I might be wrong (but I don't think so") but I am being sincere and absolutely honest about what I discern. If it should turn out I am mistaken about everything I will certainly admit to it and apologize to everyone.

 

[Divide by Zero]

Richard, I just can't comprehend why they would forget a key part in their demo.

2 ideas:

1) They are legit and the guy was nervous etc, forgot it. Highly DOUBTFUL

2) They keep making up stories to stall.


I told you in person that knowing how it works is not what we need to know. We just need to see it work. Once it's tested in a simple way then we can spend the time to understand HOW.

Simple test, one that would shut everyone up... messed up.


I understand your concern with the grid and all. I too worry about that. I worked in utilities and power plants and even when things work well, there is such a dangerous interconnection of systems that can cause cascading faults. The outage in NYC years ago was due to a simple relay trip due to a transformer fault which took out a huge transmission loop from Ohio to Canada to here!

But right now all we here from Keshe are stories, dreams and every single demo has some excuse or "mistake".

I'm not going to argue, I already see the probability of being it real as low based on this pathological or ignorant behavior on their part.

 

[Richs]

In that case, how does one complete an electrical circuit with only one wire, and it is clear there are no other wires coming from anywhere else? There are always people who make the claim that there is some sort of trickery involved as such a thing can not possibly work as claimed. Most often, they are right, but that doesn't mean they always are.

Removing the ground wire and then sticking it somewhere else in the ground illustrates that the wire doesn't lead to an AC power source. This would all take place on camera of course, but to be clear I am not saying that it has to work without the ground, only that it would show that it is not connected to some other device underground.

Yes, it would have been better if he removed the ground wire. There is another video showing the generator working in his house on a table where it is clearly shown there are no other wires connected from any power supply.

And you do not need a "closed circuit" for AC to work.

__http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/74625/does-alternating-current-ac-require-a-complete-circuit

My issue is that they all assume that AC requires a complete circuit in order to function. However, my understanding is that a complete circuit is necessary for DC, but not AC. My intuitive understanding is that AC is similar to two gas-filled rooms with a pump between them - the pump couldn't indefinitely pump gas from one room to another without a complete circuit (DC), but it could pump the gas back and forth indefinitely (AC). In the latter case, not having a complete circuit just offers more resistance to the pump (with smaller rooms causing a larger resistance).

{snip}

__http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/74625/does-alternating-current-ac-require-a-complete-circuit#74999

{snipped greek}

So you're dead right in your question: there is no need for a closed conduction path, but instead we have the more general concept of the total current - conduction and displacement - contributing to the continuity equation rather than only the conduction current. Where the conduction current leaves off at the plates of a capacitor, the displacement current "takes over" to make sure that the continuity equation stays fulfilled.

{snip}

This seems to be 'theory' based on someone's intuitive beliefs. Practically speaking, and for normal house wiring considerations, try snipping one of the wires to your refrigerator and see if it will work.

TLDR, Wearing shoes will not help if you touch an exposed live AC wire, however it is a different story with DC as long as your body isn't a better source to ground than the rest of the circuit. Well...let's also assume we are talking about voltages that are not high enough to arc.

At least that's what I got from the above exchange, along with personal experiences.

A visual example of what AC can do with only "one wire". I.e. the metallic section going to ground.

That is a reverse example of what I state above but it's still an example of an "open circuit" using AC. The point being that AC does not need two physical connection for power to flow so it is still a valid request to show that an AC power source doesn't exist. Correct me if I'm wrong.

This appears to be an example of induction from the high voltage power lines running above. The electric fields produced are strong enough to energize fluorescent lights nearby.

 

[flashgordonv]

Yes, it was rather disappointing that Douglas forgot one of the most important parts needed to do the demonstration.

Hi Richard
I have been following this thread with some interest. What I am at a loss to understand is why you seem so totally invested in this technology, to the extent that you are the chief apologist for it on the forum, to the extent of making excuses for the obvious failures.

Perhaps you have forgotten that this Forum's purpose is dedicated to the search for knowledge and truth, both within ourselves and of the outer world. Despite what some people may have as an impression that I am just a misguided believer because somebody says so, this is really a 'research project' I have undertaken for many years, that is, researching and discovering all I can about new sciences and technologies.

I also feel qualified to state my objective assessment of the technology as I have done technical work most of my life and have been trained as an electrician for a major oil company and a communications equipment technician for the military. After this long period of studying this technology I have come to the assessment that both the science and technology are valid and workable.

Does this turn me into an "apologist"?

Don't you think I would be remiss in my obligation to the group to report what I see and observe?

Lets consider the quote above - "Douglas forgot one of the most important parts needed for the demonstration". How is this even possible? Look, I spent my working career selling high value networking equipment to telcos and ISPs, and that involved lost of important demonstrations and presentations. When we prepared for these events, there was a huge focus on process and logistics - what we were going to demonstrate, how we were going to demonstrate it, what we needed to be able to do a successful demonstration. In many cases we rehearsed it, sometimes over and over again. We were list driven, the engineers I worked with were anal. We knew what we needed, and what and how we were going to show off our technology. There was no way we EVER turned up for a demonstration or a presentation without the necessaries. it is inconceivable to me that somebody going to do such an important demonstration could leave the "starter motor"at home.

So, why are you so invested in the technology? So invested that you are prepared to ignore what is seeming to be more and more obvious - that these guys cannot actually do a live demonstration which is open and above board? Have you lost your objectivity?

I would most certainly not be here in the Forum if I were not being as objective as humanly possible!

Again, I come from a sales background. You sound like a motivated positive sales guy, putting a positive spin on everything, refusing to accept any negative perspective and coming across as absolutely convinced that this is a new and revolutionary technology. If I was looking for a new sales person, I'd be interested in hiring you. If you were their sales manager, I could understand it as you would have a financial incentive tied to its success. Do you have a financial investment in this?

I am bemused. Why are you so invested in this technology?

You don't seem to get that all of us are in deep ^@%*. Today's article on SOTT makes it clear that if the electric grid breaks down we are in a world of trouble none of us have seen. Perhaps if we all had individual home devices which supplied all our needs things might be a bit better? Please stop being so bemused. There are very practical reasons for my interest.

Furthermore, I fully expected the reactions I have gotten here by bringing up this topic. Which one of you would have 'weathered the storm' I have been subjected to by many here without reacting in anger or being uncivil? Bottom line: I might be wrong (but I don't think so") but I am being sincere and absolutely honest about what I discern. If it should turn out I am mistaken about everything I will certainly admit to it and apologize to everyone.

Richard, thanks for your thoughtful reply. A couple of observations on reading it. It's one thing to be interested in and to have extensively researched the technology. It's another thing altogether to passionately defend it even when the proprietors are so incompetent as to be unable to mount a single decisive demonstration which should have been their driving motivation. It almost seems they don't want to validate the technology, or perhaps they can't .

As far as the state of the grid is concerned, I understand how grim the situation is. ( I live in a rural area and have solar panels and a generator for coping with the frequent outages. So I'd love for it to work as advertised) But having a grim situation does not make this technology valid. Working makes this technology valid. Unfortunately it doesn't have to work just because we need it.

Nobody here wants this to be a fraud. What we want is to see it working in an unambiguous manner, proving it can deliver on its many claims, and being available to the general market. That seems far off at the moment. You don't seem to allow, at least in my opinion, is that it might not work, that it might be a fraud. And that is why I am bemused and suggesting you examine your objectivity carefully.

 

[Mikey]

This is the most coherent video that I found in the entire Keshe swamp. Unlinke the hundreds of non-technical folk who are trying to build Keshe technology, the guy is actually performing a proper experiment. His findings: This Keshe machine doesn't work.

Up to minute 17, the experiment is performed and it is found that it does not generate electrical energy but actually dissipates electrical energy. The readings are unaffected by turning the "spinning GANS reactors" off.

From minute 17, he's talking in general about Keshe (I transcribed the beginning of what he says in the following quote):

17:09 That is the colossal Keshe katastrophy. I have received criticism who have asked "Why have you spent so much time building a gadget that you knew would not work." It's really simple. Because too many of you follow this quack named Keshe so blindly that you believe everything that comes out of his mouth. Let me give you a hint. Keshe is not a messiah, Keshe is a false prophet. He drones on for hours in Knowledge Seeker workshops and he scribbles all kinds of things on his white board and he spews garbage all over the place. And people just soak it all up. And it just makes me ill. So why did I do all this? Even if you don't take my word for it as one person, know that this device in front of me was built to the letter, to exact specifications per the instructions given by Keshe. And I as one person who fails to make it work is not enough evidence to prove to the general audience conclusively that the technology cannot possibly work. But I have contributed to the body of evidence that the technology does not work.

{{snip}

I actually challenge everyone to step forward with an actual working model. Not even you Mr. Keshe, can step forward with an actual working model. And if you can, I'd love to see it, I really would. But you can't because the technology is bogus.

{{snip}

The best advice I can give all of you about this clown, named Keshe, is to lick your wounds, walk away, count your losses, and move on. This is the best advice, any Keshe follower will get.

http://<iframe width="560" height="...Gy" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Mikey]

Here is another Keshe Magrav technology adherent of the non-scientific kind. He built one device, it didn't work as promised, and he became disappointed. That's the reason for his video. I'm feeling really sorry for this guy.

I don't want to be part of a scam. I think all the people who are in this Keshe foundation are great people, and the spirituality is great. But I don't want to be a part of fooling people, or bring people deeper in some New Age organsations based on spirituality and free energy. I won't be a part of that. I love everybody in this project, and no hard feelings, but in my opinion, Keshe has a too split mind; on the one side for green energy which is good; but his intention for the unit itself is making money and is fraud.

http://<iframe width="560" height="...Gy" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Mr. Premise]

To follow up on Flashgordonv's post, this seems like a classic case of Gurdjieff's concept of Identification, Richard. It leads one away from objectivity.

 

[Pierre]

I quite understand that many are finding it difficult to accept that there is a new technology and science behind it which is totally different than what is commonly known.

I don't think acceptance of new science and technology is the problem here.

The problem is that there is a lot of ambitious claims and no tangible evidence proving this machine works.

Why don't you buy/build such a device, test it and report protocols / results?

 

[Konstantin]

If this technology really works, do you think that PTB will allow being demonstrated live, or on youtube, or to be sold for home users ?
If this technology really works as its shown on youtube videos, then it will be top secret technology and I don't think that psychs on power will allow being freely used by people.
Something is not as it should be and I think that this Keshe is just a distraction and nothing more. Since its s Keshe foundation i think it's all about money here.

 

[Mikey]

The problem with Keshe is that one cannot even argue with him because there aren't any solid arguments. Everything is wrapped in fuzzy terms like "the technology", "the energy" etc. I think this is quite intentional and integral for the survival of his project.

We only have testimonials from normal people who have followed instructions to build devices, but never achieved anything with these devices. But reporting of negative experiences doesn't happen very often. Most people publish YouTube videos or testimonials when they first plug in the circuits into the wall outlet. But they don't produce any energy as is always promised. As an apology it is claimed that the device first has to "get used to" electricity and to the attached loads over several days. But by that time, people realize it is not working, and never follow up on it. By that time they have invested lots of money, time, energy and belief, and thus they are biased in regards to the outcome and tend to cover failures up. Or people blame the failure on themselves and think that they must have understood something wrong, and will try again, and again and again. It's quite an insidious psychological dynamic.

We see again that for most people belief and identification are much stronger than evidence.

In any case, it is also totally irresponsible to promote electrical circuits that consist of exposed live wires, considering that the majority of those people who try it are not trained engineers. I just saw a video where someone had exposed wires hanging all over his central breaker box!!!

I'm all for new technologies. But there are many many 'false prophets' out there who deceive for their own gain. There are certainly many COINTELPRO agents amongst them. Advertising them will only play into their hands, which is very destructive.

Before 'buying into' and advertising any new technology, it would be better to first investigate and verify them. The scientific method, especially independent verification, is a useful concept in the real world. Otherwise you discredit not only yourself, but the entire idea of the possibility of new technologies.

 

[Joe]

I would most certainly not be here in the Forum if I were not being as objective as humanly possible!

This is incorrect, IMO. Members of this forum are here to LEARN to be objective.