New book: American Heart of Darkness

[shellycheval]

Hello Robert—welcome to the forum. I look forward to reading your book as soon as my teaching schedule allows. Although at times such dark content is painful to process, I have known it is necessary to face and become aware of such knowledge for a long time. It is funny you should mention Dick Gregory; just this morning I was thinking about him shortly before I first read your thread.

Robert Kirkconnell

it is interesting that more and more people are starting to catch on to what is going on. The White middle class, or what used to be middle class anyway, is starting to figure out that they are on the chopping block now.

I believe it is imperative that we know where we are and how we got here before we begin to figure out where we need to go. America is lost in a wilderness it does not understand, and this has to change. As activist/comedian Dick Gregory once said "When you go from darkness to light, it hurt your eyes..." but is it not better to be able to see?

In 1972, when I was a senior in high school in an almost all white, “middle-class” culture, I attended a lecture by Dick Gregory who spoke about a variety of topics that were issues in the protests of the 60s through the end of Vietnam war 1975 era. At the time, I understood to a degree what the civil rights, women’s rights, and anti-war protests were all about, but knew very little about socio-economic class, not realizing that in reality, I was part of the lower/working-class majority.

The subtler messages about how I, and my generation, were part of the “oppressed” escaped me until, at the end of a captivating speech on social injustice and police brutality, Dick Gregory looked out at our eager, young, white, corn-fed faces and said, “Be ready—you’re next. You are the new `N-gg--s.’” His prescient words sent an electric shock of recognition of truth through my viscera, even though at the time I still did not understand the mechanism of this reality (Pathocrats and their “Matrix”), it has continued to propel me along the path of seeker though to the present.

Thanks for your work and contributions.
shellycheval

 

[Robert Kirkconnell]

Re: New book: American Heart of Darkness - Dick Gregory

Oh my Shelly but it is nice to hear from you!! You got it! I also subscribe to the belief system that whatever we direct energy to grows; it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. If we look for "bad people" we will find them, etc. I have, however, discovered that macrosocial evil grows if you ignore it. That is what psychopaths want is for people to not see them as they are. When they get away with exploitation they see it as a license to do more of the same. Most drivers see a cop and slow down. But some look to see that there are no cops around so they can go faster and faster....

I too found Dick Gregory to be prophetic. I remember his saying something to the effect that "they" (the power elite) practice on black people before they do it to white people.... And he gave some examples, such as Kent State. It made a big impression on me and I never forgot it. I remind audiences that most people on food stamps are white and 70 percent of them are working. The "they" that are, or were, getting them are you and me minus a few paychecks, and our kids. People are starting to hear this. Just about everything Dick Gregory said would happen is now happening.

I also "heard" Gandhi, MLK, Malcolm X, Howard Zinn, and others when they said that all we have to do is not go along with our own enslavement. This is the power that psychopathic "leaders" are really afraid of. I call the power to do nothing "metaphysical power." You can't see, smell, taste, or touch it but it is there, and it is more powerful than guns by a long-shot (no pun intended). I hear Malcolm X's words to this day -- "...and you go along with it because you a chump..." Over and over again we invest in companies that use our money against us because we want to make the same profits that we complain about because "we a chump!!"

Again, thanks for you comments. You made my day!!

 

[Robert Kirkconnell]

Re: New book: American Heart of Darkness Haplogroup X, Neanderthals, Etc.

Hi Laura, I have found several sources that document Roma having relatively high percentages of Haplogroup X. One source is below, from the National Institutes of Health. Yes, the Druze and Altians are other groups with high X frequencies. Another is the inhabitants of the Orkney Islands off the coast of Scotland. This is one of the factors that leads me to believe that the Algonquian speaking natives could have originated from Europe. The mutations in Haplogroup X among these native peoples indicates X was probably the first of the peoples in the great lakes and east coast regions. Some believe they were the first peoples in the Americas. I tend to believe, and found evidence, that there were humans in the Americas as long ago as 70,000 years, but it is a long story.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1235543/
"Haplogroup X occurred in 7.6% of Romani samples and could be subdivided into five lineages by HVS1 sequencing. Three of these lineages, bearing a transversion at position 16189, have not been seen in Europe and the Middle East, where haplogroup X is widely distributed (Kivisild et al. 1999; Richards et al. 2000)."
Much of what I am saying here is speculative and some of it intuitive on my part. I have learned, however, not to ignore my intuition and it is telling me that the Algonquian speaking natives came from the west coast of the European Continent, and that these were people that fished and hunted seals. I see them as hunting at the edge of glaciers along the Atlantic sea coast, and going further and further west. Eventually they could not make the trip to and from hunting grounds in one or two days so they started establishing camps and stop offs along the way which became permanent after a while. After a while the camps became towns that extended to the Americas and then the ice receded, leaving these people on two continents with some of the same people on islands in between. As far as I know Icelanders and Greenlanders have not been tested for Haplogroup X, but I think there is a good possibility that it is there. Haplogroup X is very interesting and there has not been nearly enough research done in this area.
Neanderthals are so fancinating! Years ago we were told that absolutely no Neanderthal genes survived, which just did not make sense. Apparently most Europeans have something like four percent Neanderthal genes, but I have no idea about anywhere else. If they are world-wide, except for Africa, that in itself is interesting. How did those genes get to Asia, the Americas, etc.?
No, I would not assert that Native Americans did not lie, cheat, steal, kill, etc., but I would say that they did not practice genocide, slaughter millions of buffalo just to starve a people out, cut people’s hands off and drape them around their necks, and so forth; at least not on a regular basis. In fact they were incredulous when white people did these things. I suppose it is the magnitude of evil that is striking. Whether this was due to Native Americans not having Neanderthal genes, having less than the Europeans, or the possibility that this had no bearing on the subject what-so-ever is something I have not looked into, but the possibilities are interesting. The fact that there was a big difference between these two peoples, and that those differences have been systematically obfuscated is beyond question. That “difference” were the seeds of destruction sown into the foundations of America from the beginning that are collapsing the American empire right now – Genocide, racism, and militarism, or macrosocial evil by another name. I always look forward to talking with this group. The collective knowledge is amazing!!

 

[Robert Kirkconnell]

Hmmm!! I did some checking and it appears that Native Americans had more Neanderthal genealogy than anyone else in the world! Wonder how that meshes with the psychopath concept?

 

[Robert Kirkconnell]

Re: New book: American Heart of Darkness - Neanderthals

I have not looked into these issues extensively. In fact, until some of you brought it up I had not looked into it at all. I know that I have seen a lot of very speculative and contradictory info about Neanderthals. This tells me that maybe we don't really know a lot about them. They were predators and hunters which takes a lot of teamwork. Could a group where virtually everyone was a psychopath pull this off? I don't know.

And I am not sure how well we understand psychopaths either. Runs in families but does not seem to be inherited either. Recent research says that psychopaths can have feelings for others but only when they want to. Time Magazine had an article on this. Of course, that does not make it true, but none the less it was interesting.

Also of interest is the info Laura brought up that the Native Americans had some interesting ways of dealing with psychopaths, banishment and so forth. They sure did not see what was coming when the Mayflower docked though! Late, got to go to bed.

 

[Laura]

Re: New book: American Heart of Darkness - Neanderthals

I have not looked into these issues extensively. In fact, until some of you brought it up I had not looked into it at all. I know that I have seen a lot of very speculative and contradictory info about Neanderthals. This tells me that maybe we don't really know a lot about them. They were predators and hunters which takes a lot of teamwork. Could a group where virtually everyone was a psychopath pull this off? I don't know.

I think you must have misunderstood what I was proposing in the article: that it was the MIXING that produced psychopathy, not that Neanderthals were psychopathic. Their problem was just being unable to conceptualize abstractly which is what you come away with after reading hundreds of studies.

And I am not sure how well we understand psychopaths either. Runs in families but does not seem to be inherited either. Recent research says that psychopaths can have feelings for others but only when they want to. Time Magazine had an article on this. Of course, that does not make it true, but none the less it was interesting.

As Lobaczewski suggested, the science on the topic is being deliberately confused.

Also of interest is the info Laura brought up that the Native Americans had some interesting ways of dealing with psychopaths, banishment and so forth. They sure did not see what was coming when the Mayflower docked though! Late, got to go to bed.

That's why I mentioned that it was small societies where everyone knew each other that had developed the methods of dealing with it.

 

[Robert Kirkconnell]

Re: New book: American Heart of Darkness - Neanderthals Again

Thanks again, Laura, for sharing your vast knowledge in these areas! Yes, I have seen info that Neanderthals lacked cognitive skills such as abstract thinking. Also of interest is the possibility that they lacked the ability to communicate as effectively as their competition. Some say that their vocal system was different, but that has not been validated.

Yes, I did miss the "mixing" aspect of your work. And by the way the piece you did was excellent. On the subject of innovation, I recall something I ran into about the Vikings, and why they were not able to adapt well to the environment in Greenland. As you know they started a colony there of about 500 people that ended up collapsing. The main reason was their inability to deviate from practices and strategies that had worked for them in the past. The native Greenlanders knew exactly how to survive in their harsh environment, and the Vikings could have easily picked up on how they did this.

I believe it was Jared Diamond's book Collapse that went into this. His take on it was that the Vikings could neither invent nor adopt new methods because of a tradition of not taking chances. The environment they came from was also harsh and trying something new could be fatal. So, they had come to only do what had worked in the past and not take any chances. Of course, when the environment changed their old methods proved to be fatal. They had the capacity to innovate they just did not do so.

From what I recall, the Neanderthals made tools, etc. exactly the same way for at least 200,000 years with no change or innovation at all. Do you think that it is possible that they had the capacity to innovate but that they just did not do so because of cultural reasons?

 

[Laura]

Re: New book: American Heart of Darkness - Neanderthals Again

I believe it was Jared Diamond's book Collapse that went into this. His take on it was that the Vikings could neither invent nor adopt new methods because of a tradition of not taking chances. The environment they came from was also harsh and trying something new could be fatal. So, they had come to only do what had worked in the past and not take any chances. Of course, when the environment changed their old methods proved to be fatal. They had the capacity to innovate they just did not do so.

From what I recall, the Neanderthals made tools, etc. exactly the same way for at least 200,000 years with no change or innovation at all. Do you think that it is possible that they had the capacity to innovate but that they just did not do so because of cultural reasons?

Be careful with Diamond. He's good on some topics, but he's still very much a mainstream thinker just re-formulating the "space/time" coordinates.

As for Neanderthals: it seems that they began to "innovate" by imitation much later but only when there was Cro-magnon around to set an example.

Another possibility is that the Neanderthal genes mix is behind the "Authoritarian Personality" as described by Bob Altemeyer while psychopathy (psychopathies) are mutations. You might want to read my recent book "Comets and the Horns of Moses" for some material on that subject as well as some general reviews of history with Ponerology in mind.

 

[Robert Kirkconnell]

Yes, I have your book, just have not finished something else now. Thanks again for the insights. I agree on Diamond. I think he has broken ground in some areas. One area that I differ with him is that he seems to think that a brutal empire is the natural order of things. I found in the Americas very advanced societies that apparently never were inclined to go that route.

 

[Elf]

most psychopaths are not in prison but that they are actually running things, it was easy to find support for this theory.

according to Robert Hare most psychopaths can be found in prison (25% of the prison population).

the brain of a psychopath rests in the „predator mode.“ Robert D. Hare's check list on psychopathy was developed at the University of British Columbia. Dr. Hare evaluated the ratio of psychopaths (people set in „predator mode“):

• 1% psychopaths – normal population
  4% (functional) psychopaths – CEOs/board members of companies
  25% (dysfunctional) psychopaths – prison inmates

Source: Robert D. Hare, Ph.D. (*1934) Canadian professor in experimental psychology, Paul Babiak, Ph.D., Snakes in Suits. When Psychopaths Go to Work, ReganBooks, 2006

in 2011 British psychologist Kevin Dutton performed an online survey of psychopathy (applying the Levenson Self-Report
Psychopathy Scale) on his website addressing British readers. the results were:
"functional psychopaths" are predominantly found in flwg professions:

• 1. CEOs (politicians),
  2. TV, radio and movie workers,
  3. lawyers,
  4. salespeople (market and financial traders),
  5. surgeons (not medical doctors),
  6. journalists,
  7. police officers (law enforcement),
  8. clergy.

i guess there were no prisoners partaking in the survey.

 

[Robert Kirkconnell]

Yes, and thanks for the info Elf. I would agree that there is a much higher percentage of psychopaths in prison populations. But, when you add up the numbers of people in the workforce and society I think you would come up with the conclusion that the vast majority are not in prison. Add to this that it is not likely to get very reliable figures for people in very high places (go ask they Bush or Obama familys if they would like to be evaluated for psychopathy). I think the numbers of the very top leaders would be shocking, and it is not the numbers so much as the power of just one person, as for instance president, that is alarming. Further, the fact that they identify and network with each other very well and we have big problems with these people.

What really caught my attention in reading Political Ponerology was the power that Psychopaths were able to obtain throughout history and the disastrous consequences of their influence. Also the fact that they were not identified as such. Once this window was opened for me I found exactly what PP illustrated so well. George W Bush mocking death row inmates, characteropaths such as Collin Powell and Condoleezza Rice, etc. And of course, these people never get tested! Too much power.

Also in researching my book I ran into other information that I found interesting. "Head-hunters" looking for top leadership positions in major corporations actively seek such characteristics as narcissistic personality disorder. Feed their ego and you can control them. When someone needs to be abnormal in order to lead our government, institutions, and industry we are in serious trouble!!
I certainly do not consider myself expert or even well-versed in these areas. Understanding the concepts are what allow me to research and write. I learn from people like the folks on this forum who are much better versed in these areas than I am. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Laura]

most psychopaths are not in prison but that they are actually running things, it was easy to find support for this theory.

according to Robert Hare most psychopaths can be found in prison (25% of the prison population).

I think you are misunderstanding what Hare says in other places. 25% of prisoners being psychopaths does not equate to "most psychopaths being found in prison."

the brain of a psychopath rests in the „predator mode.“ Robert D. Hare's check list on psychopathy was developed at the University of British Columbia. Dr. Hare evaluated the ratio of psychopaths (people set in „predator mode“):

• 1% psychopaths – normal population
  4% (functional) psychopaths – CEOs/board members of companies
  25% (dysfunctional) psychopaths – prison inmates

Source: Robert D. Hare, Ph.D. (*1934) Canadian professor in experimental psychology, Paul Babiak, Ph.D., Snakes in Suits. When Psychopaths Go to Work, ReganBooks, 2006

Hare also acknowledges that it really cannot be known how many psychopaths are in a "normal population" since the main thing about the successful ones is their "mask of sanity."

in 2011 British psychologist Kevin Dutton performed an online survey of psychopathy (applying the Levenson Self-Report
Psychopathy Scale) on his website addressing British readers. the results were:
"functional psychopaths" are predominantly found in flwg professions:

• 1. CEOs (politicians),
  2. TV, radio and movie workers,
  3. lawyers,
  4. salespeople (market and financial traders),
  5. surgeons (not medical doctors),
  6. journalists,
  7. police officers (law enforcement),
  8. clergy.

i guess there were no prisoners partaking in the survey.

Obviously. Not to mention the fact that a "self-report" in reference to psychopaths is almost an oxymoron.

Please introduce yourself in the newbies forum.

 

[Voyageur]

according to Robert Hare most psychopaths can be found in prison (25% of the prison population).

Welcome to the Forum, Elf.

As for "most", given that these are unsuccessful psychopaths and perhaps, although difficult to know, 25% of the believed 4 -6% +/- of the world psychopathic population (concentrated by degree in different countries) leaves a problematical and mostly undetected mass amongst the global main - and as Hare and others know, they tend to gravitate to the top.

You may want to read Political Ponerology concerning the macro-social scale of their effects upon humanity.

 

[Elf]

Please introduce yourself in the newbies forum.

hello Laura and group,
i am from Germany. just discovered Kirkconnell's book on the internet and found him posting on this forum.
am a serial cult recoverer (since age 22) who set out to study the interdynamics of the five characters of the Red Riding Hood fairy tale.
since a month i am compiling the results of my research on mind control here: _http://de.spiritualwiki.org/Wiki/Bewusstseinskontrolle

25% of prisoners being psychopaths does not equate to "most psychopaths being found in prison."

meaning that most psychopaths are not violent or too sly or protected to be caught or sentenced?

Dr. Hare found that 25% of the men in a treatment program for battering their wives and half of the serial rapists are psychopaths.

Robert Hare: “Violence is not uncommon among offender populations, but psychopaths still manage to stand out. They commit more than twice as many violent and aggressive acts, both in and out of prison, as do other criminals. The recidivism rate of psychopaths is about double that of other offenders. The violent recidivism rate of psychopaths is about triple that of other offenders.”

Laura, kindly explain to me what Hare meant to say on NPR about prison inmates - here:
"Those who had low scores on the PCL-R, about 20 to 25 percent would be re-convicted within four or five years. In the high group, it was about 80 percent."

what i also learned from Hare is:
Hare has said that if he couldn't study psychopaths in prisons, the Vancouver Stock Exchange would have been his second choice.
1 out of 25 people in America, 1 out 27 people in Europe, and 1 out of 28 in England is a psychopath and most of them do not end up in jail or mental institutions.

 

[Elf]

you would come up with the conclusion that the vast majority are not in prison.

agreed, Robert.

go ask they Bush or Obama familys if they would like to be evaluated for psychopathy

except Obama (#44) all American presidents have been evaluated on the degree of their respective psychopathology.

In 2010 a group of psychologists handed out the Psychopathic Personality Inventory (PPI) questionnaire to the respective biographers of all former U.S. presidents asking them to fill out the form on behalf of their subjects.
Out of 42 John F. Kennedy ranked second highest on "Fearless Dominance" and sixth highest on "Impulsive Antisociality" dimension.
Bill Clinton scored top on "Impulsive Antisociality" and seventh highest on "Fearless Dominance".
more here: _http://de.spiritualwiki.org/Wiki/Narzissmus#toc15

the power that Psychopaths were able to obtain throughout history and the disastrous consequences of their influence. Also the fact that they were not identified as such.

• 1. the grandmother (community) was sick and weak,
  2. the mother (family) was a politically correct bystander looking the other way,
  3. the red-hooded girl (individual) was gullible and didn't know that there are evil entities.

perfect set-up for the wolf to step in and take over -- about 10,000 years ago in human history, the beginning of the dominator society. we are living in transition time when the essence-tial figure - the woodchopper - enters the scene to cut out first the individual and then the community from the belly of the beast.

characteropaths such as Collin Powell and Condoleezza Rice

pls enlighten me on the specific traits of characteropathy that you found with these two political figures.

When someone needs to be abnormal in order to lead our government, institutions, and industry we are in serious trouble!!

Rhodes/Rothschild scholars get screened. the requirement for candidates are: the ability to act ruthlessly (psychopath profile).
"a clique of internationalists trained in the idea of extinguishing American independence are ensconced in the Obama administration."
_http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/rothschild_agents_168.html