Part of Polish gov members including president probably dead in plane crash

[osher]

I'm sorry, Ark. Emotions took over me. I'm not good with handling emotions. Forgive my rudeness. "Do your work" - what i meant: please do not bother yourself with not important things as i do.

As EE helps me every day i spread the good news. I tell my friends in need as simple as i can what it is (one sentence explanation: breath in nose, breath out mouth, both as you would moisture the glass), demonstrate it and encourage them to go to EEbreathe.org site, that's all. Also i ask them to listen to my piece "breathe one" on soundcloud.

 

[Possibility of Being]

Thanks osher for answering my question. We're planning to release a new multilingual EE version with subtitles, Polish included, pretty soon. So you can have a good news for your friends if they are not fluent in English. [End of off-topic]

 

[Possibility of Being]

There is still zero information in the media in English about the latest interesting development so I thought I'd drop in a note here. Poles have been and are very disappointed with the official investigations into the Smolensk crash, both Russian and Polish. In early July, the conservative and opposition Law and Justice party (PiS, the same who's members died in the crash) called up of a parliamentary committee to look into the crash.

Head of the committee is Antoni Macierewicz (PiS). Excerpts from Wiki:

Antoni Macierewicz is a Polish conservative politician and a former vice-minister of national defence in Jarosław Kaczyński's government. ...He is a member of Sejm (lower house of Polish parliament), and chairman of the Catholic-National Movement party. ...He was Minister of Internal Affairs (1991-1992). ...In July 2006, he was the lead liquidator of the Polish Military Information Services, while from October 2006 he was the chief of the newly restructured military counter-intelligence service. ....In recent years, he has presented a conservative, anti-liberal and anti-communist attitude and was a publisher of the Catholic-nationalist weekly Głos (Voice)

And now, the committee has Harvey Kushner as an advisor. In case you didn't hear about this figure, here is a bit from his website (_http://harveykushner.com/biography/bio.html):

As a recognized authority on terrorism, Dr. Harvey Kushner has advised elected officials, military personnel, and foreign governments as well as trained federal agencies from the DHS to the FBI, to name a few. He also worked for to the U.S. Probation Department as an analyst for criminal investigations, intelligence and terrorism. Kushner’s private sector clients have ranged from chemical and petrol manufacturers to multi-national financial institutions.

A much sought after keynote speaker, Kushner has given speeches across America, Europe, and Asia, addressing such diverse audiences as the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia; the Leadership Institute in Arlington, Virginia; U.S. Army Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina; the Chief of Naval Operation's Strategic Studies Group, Newport Navy Base, Rhode Island; the United Nations Office at Vienna, Austria; and the National Security Bureau, Warsaw, Poland. His university speaking tours have been varied as well, including the University of Warsaw, University of Virginia, University of Colorado, Mount Holyoke College, Southern Arkansas University Tech, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Lehman College, New York University, Lawrence University, Texas A & M University, among others.

Kushner is recognized as one of the first terrorism experts to have warned about a secret terror network operating in the United States. In a 1991 law enforcement seminar sponsored by the FBI, he described in eerie detail how terrorists connected to a worldwide jihadist movement would soon attack the home front. In a briefing to federal agents in 1998, he warned of another attack on the World Trade Center.

Kushner has experience with some of the most important court cases involving international terrorism. He wrote the expert’s report for a successful multimillion-dollar civil litigation arising out of the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. He served as an expert during the U.S. Embassy bombing trial (U.S. vs. Usama bin Laden, et al.) in 2001 and wrote the expert’s report in a landmark matrimonial case involving international terrorism after the 2001 attack on the World Trade Center. He also worked as an expert in a case involving airport security issues.

He's anti-islamist and warmonger. Two quotes that picture his agenda to some extend:

From his article (_http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=30154, check out the source for context):

Mr. Cafferty asked the question in order to get the bloggers to spew their hatred for all that is self-defense, Israel, and America. Mr. Cafferty wants to stimulate all lefties to question Obama’s silence. In doing so, he would contribute to moving his political agenda, which is to condemn the Jewish state for what he and others at CNN believe is the inhumane treatment of Palestinians. The lefties at CNN take every opportunity to show pictures of injured civilians when they know full well that the Israelis like the Americans take extraordinary measures to protect human life.

Yes, Mr. Cafferty, you are indeed CNNPolitics.com’s propaganda minister. In asking your loaded questions, you try to promote your own leftist political agenda. Worse yet, you imply that Obama’s silence is wrong and downright dangerous to America when politicians on both sides of the aisle support Israel’s right to self defense.

From Obama Cites Apparent Al-Qaida Link in Bomb Plot article (_http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=9465133)

"What's disturbing about this is we're almost nine years after 9/11 and billions of dollars have been spent and we don't have in place a system which can make us safe in the air," Kushner, chair of the school's Criminal Justice Department told The Associated Press. "You'll never be able to harden the targets to rule out terrorist activity. But we need to spend more money and have more concentration on the dangers in the skies."

For those interested,
his FB: _http://www.facebook.com/HarveyKushner
parliamentary committee FB: _http://tiny.pl/hr2nr

 

[Vulcan59]

Thanks for the update POB. You must have read my mind since I was thinking about this accident a few days ago and wondering if there were any updates or new evidence. :)

 

[Possibility of Being]

Thanks for the update POB. You must have read my mind since I was thinking about this accident a few days ago and wondering if there were any updates or new evidence. :)

Well. not intentionally, for sure!

As for new evidence - yup, clear evidence that's the country and its people are insane (but that's nothing new) :( Wherever you look you can find a mess (not just a mess but an unbelievable mess), irresponsibility, lack of professionalism, sick ambitions, and dirty political games. (Am I repeating myself?) This applies to the investigations as well. They made the crash a political issue from the very beginning and nothing has changed on that matter. There is a saying that wherever there are two Poles there are three opinions. Sadly, that's very true. While I fully agree that each of those investigations is a farce so far and they all should be called on that, I can't agree with all those nonsensical (IMO) speculations forcefully seeking our own 9/11 in that crash.

I'm really curious what will be the outcome of the cooperation with Kushner who apparently has access to all(?) documents and files collected in course of the investigation (that can contain data and files against some Polish officials in power). If I wanted to add more to already existing speculations, I would ask what outcome is excluded due to his involvement and if there is a reason for his presence. As you can likely guess, I'd be alone asking such a crazy question.

 

[D69]

I just read this article on SOTT http://www.sott.net/articles/show/219205-WikiLeaks-cables-reveal-secret-Nato-plans-to-defend-Baltics-from-Russia

Here is an interesting excerpt:

"Komorowski, the Polish ambassador in London until 2004, was one of 98 people killed with the country's president, Lech Kaczynski, when their plane crashed at Smolensk, Russia, in April."

I am now wondering if it all wasn't about Komorowski and NATO not about Kaczynski.
What do you think ?

 

[Lucius]

Dear Laura can you ask C's about Plane crash ?

1oth April 2010; President Lech Kaczynski and his wife dies in Plane crash.


Is it was really accident ?
Did someone alive this accident and have been murder after ?
Who is behind it (PTB) Russian ?
Did Polish government know about this ?

 

[Piotrek]

Dear Laura can you ask C's about Plane crash ?

1oth April 2010; President Lech Kaczynski and his wife dies in Plane crash.


Is it was really accident ?
Did someone alive this accident and have been murder after ?
Who is behind it (PTB) Russian ?
Did Polish government know about this ?

This question was posed already, but I can't seem to find the actual thread at this time.
To the best of my understanding it turned out to be the result of several things coming together (i.e. BAD coincidences/choices resulting in accident).
See if you can search the entire forum for this.

Powodzenia,
Piotrek

 

[Piotrek]

Just found the thread.
See this: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=17203.0

P

 

[Jacques]

Dear Laura can you ask C's about Plane crash ?

1oth April 2010; President Lech Kaczynski and his wife dies in Plane crash.


Is it was really accident ?
Did someone alive this accident and have been murder after ?
Who is behind it (PTB) Russian ?
Did Polish government know about this ?

Your post has been merged with that thread.

 

[Possibility of Being]

Report into Polish plane crash released
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/13/3111722.htm?section=justin

Russia's official report into the crash that killed Polish President Lech Kaczynski says pilots were under psychological pressure to land.

Mr Kaczynski and 95 others died when his presidential jet crashed on April 10, 2010, as it attempted to land in fog near the city of Smolensk in northwestern Russia.

The Russian investigation released audio evidence indicating that two top Polish officials - one of whom had consumed alcohol - entered the cockpit to pressure pilots to land, as they did not want to annoy Mr Kaczynski by diverting.

Tatyana Anodina, head of the Moscow-based aviation commission investigating the tragedy, said the pilots had lacked sufficient training and ignored repeated advice from air traffic control to land at another airport.

The investigation's technical chief Alexei Morozov said the navigator was heard exclaiming on the flight recording, "He'll go crazy!", apparently referring to Mr Kaczynski's anticipated reaction if the plane did not land.

The commission played an excerpt from the flight recording, as the pilots debate whether to land and a computerised voice then repeats, "Pull up! Pull up! Terrain ahead!"

The recording then breaks off.

Mr Kaczynski was set to attend a ceremony at Katyn forest commemorating the 70th anniversary of a World War II massacre of around 22,000 captured Polish officers by the Soviet secret police.

His attendance at the ceremony was considered a landmark moment. Mr Kaczynski had been largely shunned by Russia for his perceived anti-Moscow sentiments.

Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the identical twin of late Polish president has slammed Russia's inquiry.

"The report makes a mockery of Poland," Mr Kaczynski said.

"This is the result of leaving the investigation in the hands of the Russians."

"The report blames Polish pilots and Poland without proof in a unilateral fashion. Many questions remain unanswered," he said.

AFP

Yes, many questions remain unanswered, like for example about a role of Russian controllers who added only more confusion to already difficult situation, but if the report is correct, it tells a lot - also, that the beforehand released flight recording transcript had been manipulated.

 

[Nicholas]

Here is a 35 minute video released by RT of a reconstruction of the flight.

Inexperienced crew members, a lack of bad-weather readiness, pressure from passengers to land quickly and the pilots' refusal to look for an alternative landing site. Those are listed as the main reasons behind April's deadly crash which killed Polish President Lech Kaczynski. The investigative committee has presented its final report on the accident's causes to Poland.

 

[Vulcan59]

For those interested, the final report by the Russian Interstate Aviation Commission (IAC) Air Accident Investigation Commission can be viewed here. The report is in Russian, Polish and English. :)

 

[Possibility of Being]

Thanks, Vulcan.

Well... sigh...

It should be also noted that the attempt to recover from descent made by the PIC led to a decrease in vertical speed of descent but due to lack of delta height and excessive vertical speed could not prevent the collision of the aircraft with the obstacle (birch) which the aircraft hit with its left wing at the hight of about 5 m. However the climb maneuver was so abrupt that by the time of the impact the aircraft had angles of attack close to stall AOA. The rate of AOA increase was about 3-3.5 degrees per second. This means that if not for the collision, in 1.5 - 2 seconds the aircraft would have stalled which would also end up in an accident.

It seems, there was no single thing they did right since they entered Smolensk air zone and not many more before that... :(

 

[Vulcan59]

Hi Possibility of Being,

Yes, the pilots are to blame but the non mention of the controllers involvement, as you pointed out earlier, was rather puzzling. The report states that the pilots did a radar assisted NDB approach and they also had an incorrectly set altimeter which caused the altimeter to over-read(meaning that the aircraft was lower than what was indicated to the pilots). This would have been picked up by the radar controller. The earlier transcripts of the cockpit voice recorder clearly shows that the controllers were telling the pilots that they were on "On course, on glideslope". I can only conclude that the altimeter error was very small and thus may not have been very noticeable on radar.