Quotes

[Lamp of Orion]

T.S. Eliot:

To make an end is to make a beginning. The end is where we start from.

 

[treesparrow]

“The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.”

Tacitus.

 

[Mountain Crown]

The years teach much which the days never know.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

 

[NewOrleans]

"When a man begins to know himself a little he will see in himself many things that are bound to horrify him. So long as a man is not horrified at himself he knows nothing about himself."

P.D. Ouspensky

 

[Gertrudes]

"The trouble with most people is that they think with their hopes or fears or wishes rather than with their minds."

Quote by Will Durant

 

[Lycan]

"Such is the nature of man,
that for your first gift - he prostrates himself;
for your second - kisses your hand;
for the third - fawns;
for the fourth - just nods his head once;
for the fifth - becomes too familiar;
for the sixth - insults you; and
for the seventh - sues you because he was not given enough."

G.I.Gurdjieff

 

[Mal7]

The king ordered his ministers to examine the doctrine and the character of the teacher, saying that should he prove virtuous, he, the king, would also extend an invitation to him. The ministers then visited the upadhyaya, and inquired: 'What was his doctrine?' The upadhyaya replied: 'My doctrine is to follow whatever was proved correct after examining it by reason, and to avoid all that does not agree with reason.'

- description by Gos lo-tsa-ba of the King of Tibet's plan, in the 8th century AD, to invite to Tibet the Buddhist scholar Santarakshita, from the Buddhist university of Nalanda in India. [quoted in Atisa and Tibet by Alaka Chattopadhyaya. Calcutta: 1967, page 232].

 

[Denis]

"Such is the nature of man,
that for your first gift - he prostrates himself;
for your second - kisses your hand;
for the third - fawns;
for the fourth - just nods his head once;
for the fifth - becomes too familiar;
for the sixth - insults you; and
for the seventh - sues you because he was not given enough."

G.I.Gurdjieff

I have to question this quote.

Do you believe that there is such a thing as "human nature"? If so, can you describe what you mean by that? And since the author of this quote was a man himself, this what he said applies (actually- applied, since the man is dead) to himself as well.

I read this quote as: "man cannot be trusted". If we think that we can't be trusted, how on Earth are we suppose to make any kind of progress?

Regarding these "gifts" mentioned in a quote. All gifts, afaik, have been bestowed to us by our Creator- and it is up to us to learn to be grateful for them, and learn how to utilise them. No man can give you that which has been given to you by the Divine. Unless he means "material gifts"?

 

[Mountain Crown]

"Such is the nature of man,
that for your first gift - he prostrates himself;
for your second - kisses your hand;
for the third - fawns;
for the fourth - just nods his head once;
for the fifth - becomes too familiar;
for the sixth - insults you; and
for the seventh - sues you because he was not given enough."

G.I.Gurdjieff

I have to question this quote.

Do you believe that there is such a thing as "human nature"? If so, can you describe what you mean by that? And since the author of this quote was a man himself, this what he said applies (actually- applied, since the man is dead) to himself as well.

I read this quote as: "man cannot be trusted". If we think that we can't be trusted, how on Earth are we suppose to make any kind of progress?

Regarding these "gifts" mentioned in a quote. All gifts, afaik, have been bestowed to us by our Creator- and it is up to us to learn to be grateful for them, and learn how to utilise them. No man can give you that which has been given to you by the Divine. Unless he means "material gifts"?

It’s been my understanding that G was referring to any favorable thing given freely, material or servicing, and that humans -being selfish - eventually come to regard favors as no longer favors but entitlements.

 

[Denis]

"Such is the nature of man,
that for your first gift - he prostrates himself;
for your second - kisses your hand;
for the third - fawns;
for the fourth - just nods his head once;
for the fifth - becomes too familiar;
for the sixth - insults you; and
for the seventh - sues you because he was not given enough."

G.I.Gurdjieff

I have to question this quote.

Do you believe that there is such a thing as "human nature"? If so, can you describe what you mean by that? And since the author of this quote was a man himself, this what he said applies (actually- applied, since the man is dead) to himself as well.

I read this quote as: "man cannot be trusted". If we think that we can't be trusted, how on Earth are we suppose to make any kind of progress?

Regarding these "gifts" mentioned in a quote. All gifts, afaik, have been bestowed to us by our Creator- and it is up to us to learn to be grateful for them, and learn how to utilise them. No man can give you that which has been given to you by the Divine. Unless he means "material gifts"?

It’s been my understanding that G was referring to any favorable thing given freely, material or servicing, and that humans -being selfish - eventually come to regard favors as no longer favors but entitlements.

Hey Jerry!

Thanks for explaining. But, if by that, he was implying that humans are selfish and he himself was a human (therefore, selfish as well), doesn't that mean that he considers humans genetically wired to be selfish and egotistic?

 

[Mountain Crown]

Hi Denis,

Just curious, have you read the Wave?

It's consensually held here on the forum that the default mode for 3D earth is STS.

 

[kenlee]

I have to question this quote.

Do you believe that there is such a thing as "human nature"? If so, can you describe what you mean by that? And since the author of this quote was a man himself, this what he said applies (actually- applied, since the man is dead) to himself as well.

Here's one of the things Gurdjieff was quoted as saying in Ouspensky's book 'In Search Of The Miraculous' regarding human nature at our present level of Being. I think reading the Wave Series and Ouspensky's book will help a lot in understanding the below quote in greater context.

Quote from the book 'In Search Of The Miraculous':

"Of the desires expressed the one which is most right is the desire to be master of oneself, because without this nothing else is possible. And in comparison with this desire all other desires are simply childish dreams, desires of which a man could make no use even if they were granted to him.

"It was said, for instance, that somebody wanted to help people. In order to be able to help people one must first learn to help oneself. A great number of people become absorbed in thoughts and feelings about helping others simply out of laziness. They are too lazy to work on themselves; and at the same time it is very pleasant for them to think that they are able to help others. This is being false and insincere with oneself. If a man looks at himself as he really is, he will not begin to think of helping other people: he will be ashamed to think about it. Love of mankind, altruism, are all very fine words, but they only have meaning when a man is able, of his own choice and of his own decision, to love or not to love, to be an altruist or an egoist. Then his choice has a value But if there is no choice at all, if he cannot be different, if he is only such as chance has made or is making him, an altruist today, an egoist tomorrow, again an altruist the day after tomorrow, then there is no value in it whatever. In order to help others one must first learn to be an egoist, a conscious egoist. Only a conscious egoist can help people. Such as we are we can do nothing. A man decides to be an egoist but gives away his last shirt instead. He decides to give away his last shirt, but instead, he strips of his last shirt the man to whom he meant to give his own. Or he decides to give away his own shirt but gives away somebody else's and is offended if somebody refuses to give him his shirt so that he may give it to another. This is what happens most often. And so it goes on.

 

[Denis]

Hi Denis,

Just curious, have you read the Wave?

It's consensually held here on the forum that the default mode for 3D earth is STS.

I have read portions of Mrs. Laura's Wave series, but I haven't finished it yet. Thank you for your answer.

@ kenlee Thanks for the excerpts.

 

[SMM]

"Such is the nature of man,
that for your first gift - he prostrates himself;
for your second - kisses your hand;
for the third - fawns;
for the fourth - just nods his head once;
for the fifth - becomes too familiar;
for the sixth - insults you; and
for the seventh - sues you because he was not given enough."

G.I.Gurdjieff

I have to question this quote.

Do you believe that there is such a thing as "human nature"? If so, can you describe what you mean by that? And since the author of this quote was a man himself, this what he said applies (actually- applied, since the man is dead) to himself as well.

I read this quote as: "man cannot be trusted". If we think that we can't be trusted, how on Earth are we suppose to make any kind of progress?

Regarding these "gifts" mentioned in a quote. All gifts, afaik, have been bestowed to us by our Creator- and it is up to us to learn to be grateful for them, and learn how to utilise them. No man can give you that which has been given to you by the Divine. Unless he means "material gifts"?

It’s been my understanding that G was referring to any favorable thing given freely, material or servicing, and that humans -being selfish - eventually come to regard favors as no longer favors but entitlements.

What comes to mind is the notion of boundaries in interactions, in laymen's terms. With increase in frequency of crossing a particular boundary, the less it is respected, the more expected to be gained.

In a broader sense, human nature follows the mechanical nature of all things. Intentional suffering as too proposed by G facillitates progress.

Makes me wonder why, if it's of any relevance, G chose to present seven gifts for man?

Here's a quote from Rumi:

What matters is how quickly you do what your soul directs.

 

[Nienna]

Hey Jerry!

Thanks for explaining. But, if by that, he was implying that humans are selfish and he himself was a human (therefore, selfish as well), doesn't that mean that he considers humans genetically wired to be selfish and egotistic?

From what I understand, Gurdjieff was talking about (wo)man's mechanicalness and how we are internally considering all of the time. We lie all of the time, to others and to ouselves, and until we can see these things, we cannot start getting control over them and to actually start being less mechanical. Laura has a thread going on "splitting" that has to do with internal considering. It's in the psychology and cognitive science board.

Until you know what we are about here, you will have trouble understanding what is discussed so reading the Wave and Ouspensky's book, In Search of the Miraculous would help you to be able to get a fix on what we do here. That is if that is what you want to do.

One of the things this forum was built on was 4th Way principles.