Session 09 June 2009

[Atreides]

Thus, how can you correct something in others which is present in yourself just as much?

I am vaguely reminded of an episode of TOS, where Kirk confronts a war criminal who makes a grandiose speech about who is Kirk to judge him etc. Kirk's response was, to my memory, something along the lines of: "Who do I have to be?"

To be frank, who are you to come into our house and dictate anything at all. You are a pleeb, get over your ego and sit down and listen for awhile first.

When I go to someone's house, I am quiet, reserved, I look to see how they talk, what's expected of guests, how they react, and slowly I begin to express myself in a way that is most comfortable for them, as my hosts. I make an effort to participate in their lives and share what they are willing to share, I don't dictate terms or ideas, I don't correct them, and I don't make a donkey of myself.

Now, to address the only part of your post that had question like content.

Who is the yardstick to measure how "off" or "on" a person really is if everyone is basically "off"?

Who? This is not a who question, but to answer it after a fashion, I can say with certainty that I know of someone Who is not, and will not be the yardstick, and that is you. Now, if I may take the liberty to modify your question to something more along the lines of How does one find a yardstick to measure with...

This is a blind men and the elephant kind of situation, you can only get what is rightish from consensus and discussion. When people first hear that, they think that means a cacophony of ideas and opinions given equal weight, that is not so, and not even a good idea. Some people have been doing it longer, and have met with higher success, and so their ideas and opinions are given more weight. By their fruits ye shall know them. Someone who has a good head on their shoulders, and has met with some success, will naturally be trusted more as a source of information and judgment, this is natural.

Now, this is going to sound very mean, but really, it isn't.

The FACT of the matter is, you are the new guy, so anything you say is basically the lowest on the scale of correctness, you have put in neither the time, nor effort, nor done the requisite amount of networking and learning within this forum to be trusted or even listened too.

This is a natural protection mechanism, newbies just aren't trusted sources of information, even if they are completely right, that doesn't matter, the network has to protect itself against pathological interference, and unfortunately, only time will tell who and what a person is. You have to spend some time demonstrating that you can listen, learn, and softly contribute to discussions before what you say and or do will have any weight within the network.

Of course, I don't speak for anyone but myself, and this is just my opinion on matters, and perhaps that will contribute to the consensus.

Anyway, welcome to the forum, and I hope you get something out of your stay here.

 

[PepperFritz]

VisitorQ:

I'm going to re-post the message I directed to you earlier in this thread, as it's pretty integral to your continued participation here. Since you didn't respond to it, I'm assuming that you either didn't see it (hence the re-post), or did not pay any attention to it (hence the re-post).

You have been given the rules and requirements for continuing your status as a guest in this house, as well as the background reading required to become a productive, participating member of this network. I strongly suggest that you take a break before posting further, to give yourself a chance to get "up to speed" on the material this forum is based on, as well as its methods of research, enquiry, and networking.



_____________________________________________

RE-POST:

I have read through all of the C's transcripts and most of the Wave series....

VisitorQ:

We ask that new members of the forum read Laura's Wave series (in its entirety!) before wading too far into posting, as the ideas and concepts presented in that work form the basis for most discussions on the forum. We strongly advise against reading the transcripts on their own, outside of the context of Laura's work, as in our experience many people tend to misinterpret them and project their own preconceptions on to them.

Laura's Adventures With Cassiopaea would be an excellent follow-up to the Wave series. In the meantime, it's a good idea to bookmark the Cassiopaea Esoteric Glossary and the Cassiopedia, as they are very useful references that can be used when you encounter concepts/terminology that you may not be familiar with.

The ideas of Gurdjieff are also integral to this forum. If you're not familiar with Gurdjieff, please read some of the basic information about his 4th Way teaching, generally referred to here as "the Work". It is a method of self-examination recommended to and practiced by most members of this forum, as a way of seeing ourselves, others, and the world around us from the perspective of OBJECTIVITY, rather through the distorting prism of our own SUBJECTIVITY -- i.e., our emotional issues, programs, mechanical behaviour, sacred cows, and wishful thinking. The Work benefits from active participation in a group/network like this, where others also involved in the Work can provide feedback and act as a mirror in which we can see ourselves more clearly.

Enjoy your reading, and we hope to see you "up to speed" very soon....

:)

 

[aragorn]

Just wanted to say thank you to RedFox and Perceval to have taken the time to guide me. I hope that I'll some day can contribute to the forum in a same fashion. In the mean time I'll be reading the AMAZING thread 'Depression As a Stepping stone' as well as the original article. I will print it all out and read it all a few times, and then maybe I'll "unfold" it. I wont mess with this thread again ;)

 

[VisitorQ]

I have not asked to be trusted. I have asked a few questions and made a few comments in which people jumped at me pretty quick to "correct me". Yes, I am new to this forum, and I have seen what I came to see, so I will leave you in peace now, and don't post anymore. Thanks

Ps. Sometimes it's good to get a real cage rattling going. Just to remind ourselves where we are... Even if you have to be a "donkey" to initiate it:) No hard feelings on my part at least. I am grateful for your responses. Take care now! (I'll be sure to read up on the Wave series).

 

[kenlee]

The immense popularity of Sudarshan Kriya was bugging me - why would the PTB allow this if it had great benefits? My current thinking on this based on the C's quote

Quote
When you sweep the house and leave it clean if you do not decide what to put back in then others will do it.

Yep, I would agree. I would think that the PTB would hope that the majority see meditation and breathing-based techniques as an end in and of themselves and not as a means to further enhance one’s ableness to pierce thru the veil of the PTB's lies and deceptions and, along with that, feel the true horror of it all and be better able to deal with it. Gurdjieff spoke of Active Being Mentation which, as I understand it, is ‘conscious thinking', that is, it's thinking with the totality of oneself where all of one’s ‘brains’ participate in the thinking process. Found this in cassiopedia on it:
http://www.cassiopedia.org/glossary/Being_Mentation

Orage speaks of "notes in the thinking scale." So possibly the PTB is hoping that those who have the potential to think outside the box will stop at the note ‘la,’ bliss out, and go no further.

http://kesdjan.com/exercises/ponder.html

Pondering
from "A. R. Orage's Commentaries on G. I. Gurdjieff's All and Everything," ed. C. S. Nott, pp. 56-58, 62-63.

Orage:
"As has been said, a man should spend half, or at least a third, of his life in pondering. Helkdonis stands in relation to the assimilation of foods as pondering stands in relation to impressions."

One of us said: "A man must make an effort to resolve the struggle between affirmation and denial, or else the impression goes not to essence but just to his store of information?"

Orage: "Yes. In other words, pondering is the neutralizing force of thought. Without this, the organism is left with only positive and negative deposits. Pondering is the weighing of ideas. Pondering should include clarity."

Question: "How is pondering different from meditation and contemplation?"

Orage: "There are notes in the thinking scale, of which Sol is concentration, La is meditation, Si is contemplation. But each is still a process of thought, in which the emotional may enter; and it must be present in pondering, which is motivated by the emotional center, by the personal relation to the subject pondered. Pondering is essential thinking. If emotion were lacking pondering would be only weighing. Pondering is establishing values by weighing; otherwise there is only clarity and logic."

Question: "How do you differentiate impulsive action from action due to pondering?"

Orage: "What is weighed in pondering is inclination and disinclination as opposed to thinking, in which ideas and concepts are weighed. The contents of the emotional center--likes and dislikes--are the units weighed in relation to the criterion of more or less being.

"Pondering is the assimilation of the third food. With the Psalmist we can say: 'When I consider the heavens, the moon and the stars which thou hast ordained,' I ask, 'What is man that thou art mindful of him, and the son of man that thou visitest him?' This is asking, after contemplation, 'What am I?'--the transfer of the note Si of the thinking octave to Do of the pondering octave. Pondering is thinking with the emotional center (its thinking sub-center) which is the seat of essence. This sub-center is said to be the most highly developed of the sub-centers.

"Suppose that our state of being depends on our serviceability to the Creator, that our future being, our life, depends upon our creation of values contributing to the Creator's purpose. Not knowing the purpose--the meaning and aim of existence--these objective values are matter for pondering. On the supposition that we exist by the will of a Being, the individual's question is whether he is producing the desired values. This question is not intellectual because my being depends on this understanding.

"In the book, distinction is constantly made between existence and being. Values according to likes and dislikes are infantile; calculation according to the welfare of the planetary body is existence; the welfare or ill fare of my being is contemporary with existence and at the same time is continuous. Pondering is an activity proper to being.

 

[anart]

'visitor q' -

Just so you are aware, assuming you will read this, since you've supposedly left the forum, your understanding as related in your posts is so far off it's 'not even wrong'.


And, for the record, it was not only your posts that revealed your mindset, understanding, attitude and direction (which they did very well) it was your website - _wakeupcall2012.com where you claim to monitor 'mass consciousness'. It's always prudent to remember that just because you cannot perceive certain nuances, truths and even details about another person through their written words and behavior, does not mean that everyone is so incapable.

Especially when such initial impressions turn out to be proven correct via your consequent behavior.

With increased levels of awakening come increased levels of perspicacity - and then there are those who start their own website to monitor 'mass consciousness' while accusing those who attempt to awaken him of all that he is. It is infinitely easier for one in a dream to speak to others who are dreaming, which I'm sure you've experienced on your website. Enjoy your dream, 'visitor q', this forum is clearly not for you.

 

[Vulcan59]

So anyway, you might want to look into this "Tibetan milk mushroom / kefir" and get some more info, as it might help if not totally take care of your problem(s).

Thanks SeekinTruth, I'll check out the Tibetan milk mushroom / kefir. A quick search seem to indicate that there are no suppliers here in NZ but there is one in Melbourne. I'll try ordering some from her.

 

[Al Today]

[quote author=VisitorQ]Yes, I am new to this forum, and I have seen what I came to see, so I will leave you in peace now, and don't post anymore. Thanks[/quote]
Bum me out.!.!.! And I have a question to ask... Sigh...

[quote author=VisitorQ] ... There is a version of "you" in all these potential realities simultaniously. ... The "you" that is here/now is the "main focus" while all the other "probes" are more "unreal" as they do not contain nearly as much of the Higher Self "soul energy" as the you that are here/now.
[/quote]
I'm confused by this remark... In experiencing this 3D "reality", perhaps there is a veil of forgetfullness that allow us to experience situations in that we may have opportunities to "learn" from what seems to be fresh, unique situations, seemingly new, fresh, and unique. In thinking about the infinite possibilities of alternate realities where you/me/we (what we perceive as individuational uniqueness), why would any "other" "I" be less significant than any other? Do not they have their own experiences to experience, to "learn" from? If there are multiple, simultaneous, "other" alternate realities and one is less important than others, I must ask, then what would be their purpose? What would be the point?
:( :( :(

 

[T.C.]

Thanks for the offer T.C., but I don't think those concepts quite fit my "frame of mind". My post was an attempt to let others know that whatever the situation is, they are not traveling the path alone. Indeed, many can be caught up with...

[...]

I never intended to write about being helpless.

And you didn't. It was just how you said you kinda accepted your physical situation. I thought maybe you didn't have to and there might be ways to change your health for the better, but that it had gone on so long that you just accepted it.

But I now realise that I don't know anything about you and your situation, and you weren't asking for my advice. Sorry about that

 

[thorbiorn]

Any take on Sri Sri Ravi Shankar from anybody?

There are some groups on yahoo that on and off mention or discuss Sri Sri Ravi Shankar:
_http://groups.yahoo.com/phrase/sri-sri-ravi-shankar and some are into hanging him out or defending him or his organization like: _http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2009/03/what-sri-sri-does-for-dude.html

In the side of the last blog one finds a many links to blogs about other movements.

Until I read the excerpts etc. what I would have thought, just based on friends and so on, was that Ravi Shankar (sorry I did not know about the ''H.H. Sri Sri'' until most recently) is very popular, has lots of followers and may have some ego issue. Even if that is so, it does not mean that whatever he knows can not help, and therefore one should perhaps not be deterred too much by the critique going around as long as one strives to create balance. Just a thought.

eidt: more pro and con: _http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/20/a-letter-from-a-sri-sri-ravi-shankar-wo/rshipper mostly from an Indian perspective.

 

[Steve M.]

Something I find odd is that over the last week or so, since reading the prior Session, Breathing has come up a lot. Like something is reminding me to practice it. Just noting it as it seems a weird coincidence. For example waking up a bit phlegmy, coughing a few times and thinking, I should start practicing some breathing techniques. There's a more specific situation that pointed it out, that has come to me, but for some reason I'm not remembering it.

Thanks for sharing Laura, I really like the story of the Squirrel and reality in it's true and various forms. It's really well written and easy to grasp. John Schumaker seems like a down to earth kind of fellow/writer.

 

[Al Today]

It was just how you said ... Sorry about that

Thanks. No apology necessary T.C. I told my kids many times, sometimes it's not so important as to what you say, it's how you say it...

 

[Third_Density_Resident]

I went to a YouTube introduction on Pranayama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvdiMjSgItg) and I was a little freaked out by some of the comments there, such as how dangerous this technique can be if you don't do it with supervision. Would anyone with more experience like to comment on this possibility?

 

[obyvatel]

I've just had an Inspiration.
In my last post I mentioned that I had always been taught that Pranayama should be learnt/practiced after you had a good understanding/grasp of the more "basic" practice of yoga being the Asana practice. But it just came to me that maybe the message was lost in translation over many years, being diluted to our modern understanding of Yoga especially in the west.

Maybe just as here we have only realised/are focusing on this now after much work and preparation in other areas of ourselves on this forum. The teaching was actually that you shouldn't practice Pranayama until the necessary preparation had been put in place to know more about your "machine". It would be easy to see how this would be contracted down to have become only after Asana. But that wasn't what was meant. It had/has lost it's place in the fuller context of "The Work" as to when it should be introduced as a beneficial practice.

I hope this post is clear. It just came over me in a wave.As it were!

Great inspiration and good thinking, I believe! I was quite active with Astanga Yoga some years ago (principles by Sri Patthabi Jois) going to classes a few times a week and all that. The main thing that bothered me, and why I quit - in addition to laziness (I sort of do it every now and then at home) - was the concept of the correct breathing. The problem, at least for me, was that the instructors wanted everyone to have really strong bandhas, those muscular "locks" in the "lower part of the body" all the time. As I understood it, and I could be wrong, the bandhas are supposed to be "on" all the time through the whole series in order to "create heat" and support the spine and back.

But these bandhas really made it impossible for me to get my breath deep enough, no chance to get this feeling of letting the air flow all the way down to your toes! There's of course the possibility that I did it wrong, but my sense is that the "modern" western yoga IS INDEED CORRUPTED somehow. When I observed the yoga instructors outside the classes I was really surprised to notice that their normal breathing was REALLY SHALLOW and so called upper breathing. So, since I'm in the profession of singing where deep diaphragmatic breathing is a must, I just couldn't continue with the Astanga.

Nowdays when I sometimes do some Astanga at home I skip totally using the bandhas or use them very little, this way I can get the breathing much deeper. Do you think it's dangerous not to use the bandhas...?

I am no expert in yoga but allow me to share what I know from a different cultural context and some subsequent studies. I had practiced basic yoga postures (asanas) and simple breathing techniques for 2-3 years in India a long time ago. We were never taught any muscular locks. Popular wisdom was that forcible muscular locks and pranayama practices were advanced practices and were as dangerous as they were useful. The advanced practices were taught traditionally in a monastic setting where highly experienced teachers could constantly monitor students. It is quite possible that when these techniques were exported to the west, a lot of traditional and very reasonable safe-guards were ignored.
Other posters have posted Gurdjieff's comments about the potential dangers of wrong practice of breathing techniques in general terms. Bruce Frantzis, a chi-gung and Chinese internal martial arts teacher who has learnt yoga/pranayama in India speaks about the differences of the two systems and specifically warns against incorrect pranayama practice saying that it works too well and anything that works very well and very fast does come with the potential pitfalls. (If anyone is interested, I am referring to Bruce's book "Opening the Energy Gates of the Body"). I have not checked out a lot of pranayama videos in youtube but IMO it is not safe to learn any advanced techniques from videos even if they are authentic. Enthusiasm and zeal combined with incomplete advanced pranayama instructions form an explosive mixture. Since I have personally seen people seriously damaging themselves from incorrectly practicing asanas (postures) ignoring standard safeguards back in India, I felt I should share this.
FWIW

Edit: saw 3D resident's post after posting mine.

 

[thorbiorn]

Looking for Sri Sri Ravi Shankar I found _http://forum.rickross.com/search.php?12,search=SRi+Sri+Ravi+Shankar,page=1,match_type=ALL,match_dates=0,match_forum=ALL

This is a reposting from _http://mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=broadcast&broadcastid=108654

Sri Ravi Shankar calls to fight terrorism

By Team Mangalorean, Mangalore
Photographs: Rajesh Shetty

MANGALORE, January 12, 2009: The Akhila Bharata Vidyarthi Parishat (ABVP) today organised a rally and a public meeting against the growth of terrorism. On this occasion over 20,000 people took an oath to put down terrorism and help the country to fight terrorism.

Addressing the meeting after launching of a month-long campaign, organised by the Department of Higher Education and Directorate of Collegiate Education here, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar (of art of living fame) said terrorism had become a curse on the modern society and should be put down by everybody who loves peace and harmony. He said it was a state of mind that forces the people to take up terrorism. Those minds could be diverted towards better avenues in life.

Liberal attitude of India had been misused and misinterpreted by nations like Pakistan, he said, adding there was an urgent need for putting a limit to such liberty by the government in the best interest of the country. With the support of intellectuals supporting terrorists, the pen had also become another terror along with gun, threatening the integrity and sovereignty of the nation, he opined.

''The youth be bold and have enough courage not only to fight against growing terrorism in different parts of the country but also identify terrorists in and around their area and inform the security agencies such as police and intelligence without delay. This would help the security agencies to take swift actions and curb the terrorism,'' he added.

Home minister of Karnataka Dr. V.S. Acharya on this occasion stated that those who succumb to terror tactics will be considered weak, he appealed every Indian to stand up against terrorism and try to vanquish all kinds of terrorism. Sometime he said terror could be countered by terror tactics and there are several instances when terrorists were rooted out by using terror tactics against them.

State minister for Higher education Arvind Limbavali speaking on this occasion stated that the ABVP had always fought against all kinds of terrorism and social maladies but many times it had to take firm decisions and stern actions which has been mistaken as extreme steps, but in the long run everybody has understood that action taken by the ABVP was just right and was needed at that time.

State BJP President D.V. Sadananada Gowda recalled the sacrifices made by the national leaders and said students should emulate such sacrifices and try to instill a sense of belonging to the nation. One of the help that the country needs in this time was its help to fight terrorism he added.

A surprise guest on this occasion was MLA of Ullal Mr. U.T. Khader who despite being opposed to the principles of ABVP had come there to express his solidarity towards the fight against terrorism.

There are many pictures from the event including this one:

Reading the comments following the article and also included in the reposting on the Cult Education site is also interesting, but it gets too long to repost here.

That Sri Sri Ravi Shankar does have a political activity is better to me than if he had an aversion to any political activity. Sure some more knowledge and balance could have been in his comments, but that might come one day.

edit: more copied articles via this link: _http://www.rickross.com/groups/artofliving.html