Session 10 October 2015

[Skyalmian]

(Perceval) Changes in your mode of self-presentation is kind of like what you identify with, ya know? It gets into what we were just talking about earlier. If a person is wearing clothes that identify him with a certain aspect of common popular culture, then if you are at odds with the world at large because of the insanity and suffering, that would be one of the first things to change: you identification with "popular culture".

Maybe I ought openly display FOTCM card somehow, as an experiment... Choice of jewelry / displayed items mattering...

 

[Alada]

When we are attacked fromm all sides, we are have no discenment. I find the adjustment administrators or moderators legitimate, but sometimes I have the impression that some members rush to reprimand, after a warning from a moderators or administrator, as if for approval lauch their stone or increase their posts. I designed no one in particular and certainly not you. I think you understand what I mean.

Interesting that you use the word 'attack' no? Perhaps your thinking is skewed in a certain direction and you are prejudging due to that.

The process here on the forum is one of feedback and when appropriate mirroring, that others may learn to see themselves as others see them and take corrective step then accordingly, or not, if they have an aim to do so.

This work is also requires a learning process of discernment, which takes practice, and a process of learning how to share and communicate with others. How we learn to do this is everything is held back?

So I don't think at all that all other people jumping on the band wagon, a point of view which seems kind of cynical to me. It often it takes real courage to say what we really think we are seeing and feeling, maybe you consider that when others see the Mods and Ambs posting a certain way it help them confirm their own impressions and share them accordingly. You can be sure that if anyone is seen to be 'throwing stones' for the sake of it that the Mods and Ambs will shine a light on it.

Maybe a part of you is resistant to the process which thus creates the above narrative. Something to consider.

 

[syldan]

For me, in the context of the specific session when i read the words: "self-presentation and self-representation", i immediately thought of the way one presents themselves in relations to their ideas, their view of the world and their approach to their daily lives, and the problems they face etc. ?

i perceived it as standing up for my beliefs and not just step away from my beliefs to have a 'quiet life', and representing my ideas in such a positive way as to NOT cause conflict whenever possible, whereas in some cases a little conflict is needed...

And i must say that this was absolutely timely for myself as i was in the process of asking both my roommates to find other places to stay since we have nothing in common, and also because my Mr. NiceGuy approach had only brought attempted use and abuse on their part. Also, this decision came after more than a year of having my friends and family tell me how i shouldn't put up with this situation, and that i could be living differently since it is My place?! (Of course they are right, but i just convinced myself that i was being a good person.)

As for the exterior presentation, it goes without saying for me that the exterior is a good sign of what is inside, as Laura explained in a previous post. A person who does not wash, shave, clean their own surroundings, is likely to have the same clutter and dirt on the inside. FWIW

Thank you!

 

[Kisito]

When we are attacked fromm all sides, we are have no discenment. I find the adjustment administrators or moderators legitimate, but sometimes I have the impression that some members rush to reprimand, after a warning from a moderators or administrator, as if for approval lauch their stone or increase their posts. I designed no one in particular and certainly not you. I think you understand what I mean.

Interesting that you use the word 'attack' no? Perhaps your thinking is skewed in a certain direction and you are prejudging due to that.

The process here on the forum is one of feedback and when appropriate mirroring, that others may learn to see themselves as others see them and take corrective step then accordingly, or not, if they have an aim to do so.

This work is also requires a learning process of discernment, which takes practice, and a process of learning how to share and communicate with others. How we learn to do this is everything is held back?

So I don't think at all that all other people jumping on the band wagon, a point of view which seems kind of cynical to me. It often it takes real courage to say what we really think we are seeing and feeling, maybe you consider that when others see the Mods and Ambs posting a certain way it help them confirm their own impressions and share them accordingly. You can be sure that if anyone is seen to be 'throwing stones' for the sake of it that the Mods and Ambs will shine a light on it.

Maybe a part of you is resistant to the process which thus creates the above narrative. Something to consider.

Maybe it against attack is better. It is a beautiful metaphor that of the mirror, and I adhere. My resistance could be that all judgments of the members are not necessarily accurate. And my fear was in the exponential nature of the reflection of the mirror. For if the light is good, it can be harmful if people want to watch long eyes open. Wanting to open the eyes of people (helping people) is a good thing, but the prolonged light can blind those who want to face this light. I was afraid Prometeo become blind forever. I felt he needed to be alone and meditate in this "mirror effect". Knowledge protects the sealed water thirst, but can not drink more than satiety. The body needs to channel this new information. I remember reading in "System 1 & 2", Daniel Kahneman, explained to the leaders of the Israeli army, which reprimanded the soldiers do not make progress, but regress. Encouragers and made them grow. I really thought about that. And I always wonder. Luke Wilson said in his last post above: "Most of us, all in here because we resisted the majority." There may be several interpretations, but those that appear from learning, this n is not the amount of light (direct or mirror), nor water, nor knowledge, but the container. "We do not put new wine in old wineskins of, otherwise the skins burst, the wine is spreading and the bottles perish ..." Matt 9. 17. In this session Cs seem to tell us to go step by step. The steps are different from each other, that's why the "mirror" is important. But sometimes we can put our concerns that some steps in the mirror of others. For courage, there may already have a post for this, or will it take to create one. There is much to say I guess. Now I seem to see mirrors everywhere :).

 

[ankhepiphan]

Thank you Laura and everyone for another great session!

 

[Anamarija]

And i must say that this was absolutely timely for myself as i was in the process of asking both my roommates to find other places to stay since we have nothing in common, and also because my Mr. NiceGuy approach had only brought attempted use and abuse on their part. Also, this decision came after more than a year of having my friends and family tell me how i shouldn't put up with this situation, and that i could be living differently since it is My place?! (Of course they are right, but i just convinced myself that i was being a good person.)

Good for you romochar!

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Paris is traitorous for pushing the general population (subliminal thoughts ?) that this activity (below) has merits. You see ordinary people attempting to emulate this idea on a world wide agenda.
Never really understood it.

If one must find a culprit, I'm not sure Paris designers would be it. Designers are of their own accord usually 'inspired' by people in the street. Cool kids from Tokyo, New York, London are often cited.

Many young folks today are inspired by celebrities first and foremost. Think Rihanna, Beyoncé, etc. Sometimes bloggers or Instagram stars, too. If we're talking about goths, etc., my guess would be that they are inspired by Gothic rock/metal bands, fairy tales, even anime, etc.

I've never seen anyone emulating the hairdos of a Chanel fashion show. I've lost count of how many Rihanna haircuts (the half mohawk) I've seen in the streets, however.

 

[Aiming]

When we are attacked fromm all sides, we are have no discenment. I find the adjustment administrators or moderators legitimate, but sometimes I have the impression that some members rush to reprimand, after a warning from a moderators or administrator, as if for approval lauch their stone or increase their posts. I designed no one in particular and certainly not you. I think you understand what I mean.

Interesting that you use the word 'attack' no? Perhaps your thinking is skewed in a certain direction and you are prejudging due to that.

The process here on the forum is one of feedback and when appropriate mirroring, that others may learn to see themselves as others see them and take corrective step then accordingly, or not, if they have an aim to do so.

This work is also requires a learning process of discernment, which takes practice, and a process of learning how to share and communicate with others. How we learn to do this is everything is held back?

So I don't think at all that all other people jumping on the band wagon, a point of view which seems kind of cynical to me. It often it takes real courage to say what we really think we are seeing and feeling, maybe you consider that when others see the Mods and Ambs posting a certain way it help them confirm their own impressions and share them accordingly. You can be sure that if anyone is seen to be 'throwing stones' for the sake of it that the Mods and Ambs will shine a light on it.

Maybe a part of you is resistant to the process which thus creates the above narrative. Something to consider.

Maybe it against attack is better. It is a beautiful metaphor that of the mirror, and I adhere. My resistance could be that all judgments of the members are not necessarily accurate. And my fear was in the exponential nature of the reflection of the mirror. For if the light is good, it can be harmful if people want to watch long eyes open. Wanting to open the eyes of people (helping people) is a good thing, but the prolonged light can blind those who want to face this light. I was afraid Prometeo become blind forever. I felt he needed to be alone and meditate in this "mirror effect". Knowledge protects the sealed water thirst, but can not drink more than satiety. The body needs to channel this new information. I remember reading in "System 1 & 2", Daniel Kahneman, explained to the leaders of the Israeli army, which reprimanded the soldiers do not make progress, but regress. Encouragers and made them grow. I really thought about that. And I always wonder. Luke Wilson said in his last post above: "Most of us, all in here because we resisted the majority." There may be several interpretations, but those that appear from learning, this n is not the amount of light (direct or mirror), nor water, nor knowledge, but the container. "We do not put new wine in old wineskins of, otherwise the skins burst, the wine is spreading and the bottles perish ..." Matt 9. 17. In this session Cs seem to tell us to go step by step. The steps are different from each other, that's why the "mirror" is important. But sometimes we can put our concerns that some steps in the mirror of others. For courage, there may already have a post for this, or will it take to create one. There is much to say I guess. Now I seem to see mirrors everywhere :).

Perhaps there's something being triggered for you in seeing Prometeo getting a mirror? Something to keep in mind is that the feedback given by the network is done to help each other, even if it can become highly uncomfortable not only for the person addressed, but also for others witnessing the situation. It's a normal automatical reaction, and as long as it's being seen from the perspective of triggered emotions, it can indeed be hard to separate this reaction from the actual context. A mirror for another does tend to trigger our own 'material', it's like the proverbial heat being applied to the false personality.

Thing is, a lot of us have observed Prometeo's behaviour on the thread - thus it was pointed out to him. This is not about making 'judgements', but simply pointing out observations and opening the door for insights and the possibility of correcting certain behaviours (if the person so chooses), that we would otherwise not have seen by ourselves. Which, if you think about it, is a real gift. I think it's always good to remember that the moderators and the network as a whole have lots of experience in this and that the process of networking itself is what makes it possible to give more accurate feedback to each other, and as Alada said, when something is off or is going over board, it will be pointed out as well.

 

[Divide by Zero]

Maybe it against attack is better. It is a beautiful metaphor that of the mirror, and I adhere. My resistance could be that all judgments of the members are not necessarily accurate. And my fear was in the exponential nature of the reflection of the mirror. For if the light is good, it can be harmful if people want to watch long eyes open. Wanting to open the eyes of people (helping people) is a good thing, but the prolonged light can blind those who want to face this light. I was afraid Prometeo become blind forever. I felt he needed to be alone and meditate in this "mirror effect". Knowledge protects the sealed water thirst, but can not drink more than satiety. The body needs to channel this new information. I remember reading in "System 1 & 2", Daniel Kahneman, explained to the leaders of the Israeli army, which reprimanded the soldiers do not make progress, but regress. Encouragers and made them grow. I really thought about that. And I always wonder. Luke Wilson said in his last post above: "Most of us, all in here because we resisted the majority." There may be several interpretations, but those that appear from learning, this n is not the amount of light (direct or mirror), nor water, nor knowledge, but the container. "We do not put new wine in old wineskins of, otherwise the skins burst, the wine is spreading and the bottles perish ..." Matt 9. 17. In this session Cs seem to tell us to go step by step. The steps are different from each other, that's why the "mirror" is important. But sometimes we can put our concerns that some steps in the mirror of others. For courage, there may already have a post for this, or will it take to create one. There is much to say I guess. Now I seem to see mirrors everywhere :).

Kisito, I do understand that reprimanding can cause a slide back. But what was done was not in that taste of the past like Anart or some others would do. There has been much patience here in order to help him. No matter how much patience, if someone is not seeing the importance of the basic foundation, what will be learned besides another coping mechanism to deal with the specific situation?



As for the session, interesting as always! I've been feeling up and down physically probably due to the extreme weather changes in the NE US. During these physical down periods, I have a very hard time to keep external consideration at work, when the energy goes down to where I feel like there is none for myself!

I am probably being a bit passive here, but this world could use a lot of help, because if we have this upcoming ice age of economic collapse, we won't have much time or energy! I suppose that is why it is important now to do what we can do, both for ourselves and "those who ask". I sort of dismissed the idea of help, but a small part of me hopes that help is indeed on the way.

 

[Ca.]

Paul on Modesty: 1 Timothy 2:8-10
.

I thought the general consensus of biblical scholars was that Paul did not write Timothy

Yeah, Paul didn't write Timothy. SOME of the essay hits home, and the part about the extravagant and totally shameless behavior of Messalina and Poppaea is true.

However, IMO, pretty, comfortable clothing, a bit of enhancing make-up and jewelry aren't the problem. It's when it is taken to excess I guess.

c.a.,

I think maybe B Helmet and Laura have good points. Maybe you are going a little biblical with the idea of "self-presentation and self-representation" especially after all the historical research Laura is doing to find the real sources for the creation of biblical texts. Actually in the session the Cs never mentioned modesty although I think there is a place for that in our lives.

I found this article doing a couple word searches with rearguards of that particular exert of this session. It had it's God points and some questionable discrepancies.

I thought the article had it's good point's but honesty was not sure of its accuracy. So thanks Laura for the calcification, as I am not very well read with any of Biblical text and their deeper interpretations. As the session's have indicate they have been manipulated in form and content from the original text. So one can see this in the within that article.

Yes i agree there is perhaps a fine line of what i would think is shameful access to conscious social attire.

When I've gone out with others here i keep it pretty tame. I might perhaps wear a nice shirt with a floral designs, (maybe clean ball cape), a newer pair of jeans, a newer pair hiking boots (free of mud dirt and contamination). And (a small accent), of a leather belt, with one of those cowboy buckles of an eagle on it, (flying near the mountain ranges).

The Buckle is perhaps a bit gaudy, so i tend too keep the shirt tails out to cover it at times. As i feel it just represents a small form of expression of what little freedom i have found here, in Europe. Plus this location is prime with many species of bird's of pray. So it's acknowledging this location with it's diversity of life.

Haven't found the courage to wear the French Beret which was given to me by an associate here. It would seem a little fake too do so, and perhaps even a little disrespectful. As many (i feel) take that hat (as the old school) traditional model, of the traditional values of the life within the French Basque country side.

Besides their are 70 year old women here that work sun up to sun down whom could easy mop the floor with me.

So better to a show a little respect, that get my butt kicked by misunderstanding.

Also if i may i came across this video that also seemed to emphasize this exert as well.

Martin Luther King Jr., "The Drum Major Instinct"
Hail Julius Caesar the Real Christ

https://youtu.be/tBiFnDuCJIU

 

[lainey]

Maybe it against attack is better. It is a beautiful metaphor that of the mirror, and I adhere. My resistance could be that all judgments of the members are not necessarily accurate. And my fear was in the exponential nature of the reflection of the mirror. For if the light is good, it can be harmful if people want to watch long eyes open. Wanting to open the eyes of people (helping people) is a good thing, but the prolonged light can blind those who want to face this light. I was afraid Prometeo become blind forever. I felt he needed to be alone and meditate in this "mirror effect". Knowledge protects the sealed water thirst, but can not drink more than satiety. The body needs to channel this new information. I remember reading in "System 1 & 2", Daniel Kahneman, explained to the leaders of the Israeli army, which reprimanded the soldiers do not make progress, but regress. Encouragers and made them grow. I really thought about that. And I always wonder. Luke Wilson said in his last post above: "Most of us, all in here because we resisted the majority." There may be several interpretations, but those that appear from learning, this n is not the amount of light (direct or mirror), nor water, nor knowledge, but the container. "We do not put new wine in old wineskins of, otherwise the skins burst, the wine is spreading and the bottles perish ..." Matt 9. 17. In this session Cs seem to tell us to go step by step. The steps are different from each other, that's why the "mirror" is important. But sometimes we can put our concerns that some steps in the mirror of others. For courage, there may already have a post for this, or will it take to create one. There is much to say I guess. Now I seem to see mirrors everywhere :).

Kisito, I do understand that reprimanding can cause a slide back. But what was done was not in that taste of the past like Anart or some others would do. There has been much patience here in order to help him. No matter how much patience, if someone is not seeing the importance of the basic foundation, what will be learned besides another coping mechanism to deal with the specific situation?

Plus what kind of encouragement would you suggest? When someone is being passive aggressive, insulting or outright rude I think a straight forward approach is necessary to let that person know that that sort of behaviour is not tolerated.
Also it may or may not trigger a period of positive disintegration (explored in Dabrowski's work) where the person uses the negative feelings created by the situation to push them toward growth or at least understanding that they were being a stranger to themselves.

 

[Ca.]

Paris is traitorous for pushing the general population (subliminal thoughts ?) that this activity (below) has merits. You see ordinary people attempting to emulate this idea on a world wide agenda.
Never really understood it.

If one must find a culprit, I'm not sure Paris designers would be it. Designers are of their own accord usually 'inspired' by people in the street. Cool kids from Tokyo, New York, London are often cited.

Many young folks today are inspired by celebrities first and foremost. Think Rihanna, Beyoncé, etc. Sometimes bloggers or Instagram stars, too. If we're talking about goths, etc., my guess would be that they are inspired by Gothic rock/metal bands, fairy tales, even anime, etc.

I've never seen anyone emulating the hairdos of a Chanel fashion show. I've lost count of how many Rihanna haircuts (the half mohawk) I've seen in the streets, however.

Good point's. Thank you for your observations.

I was under the impression that Paris was the fashion capital of the world that others took note from.

 

[goyacobol]

[...cut for brevity]

I found this article doing a couple word searches with rearguards of that particular exert of this session. It had it's God points and some questionable discrepancies.

I thought the article had it's good point's but honesty was not sure of its accuracy. So thanks Laura for the calcification, as I am not very well read with any of Biblical text and their deeper interpretations. As the session's have indicate they have been manipulated in form and content from the original text. So one can see this in the within that article.

Yes i agree there is perhaps a fine line of what i would think is shameful access to conscious social attire.

When I've gone out with others here i keep it pretty tame. I might perhaps wear a nice shirt with a floral designs, (maybe clean ball cape), a newer pair of jeans, a newer pair hiking boots (free of mud dirt and contamination). And (a small accent), of a leather belt, with one of those cowboy buckles of an eagle on it, (flying near the mountain ranges).

The Buckle is perhaps a bit gaudy, so i tend too keep the shirt tails out to cover it at times. As i feel it just represents a small form of expression of what little freedom i have found here, in Europe. Plus this location is prime with many species of bird's of pray. So it's acknowledging this location with it's diversity of life.

Haven't found the courage to wear the French Beret which was given to me by an associate here. It would seem a little fake too do so, and perhaps even a little disrespectful. As many (i feel) take that hat (as the old school) traditional model, of the traditional values of the life within the French Basque country side.

Besides their are 70 year old women here that work sun up to sun down whom could easy mop the floor with me.

So better to a show a little respect, that get my butt kicked by misunderstanding.

Also if i may i came across this video that also seemed to emphasize this exert as well.

Martin Luther King Jr., "The Drum Major Instinct"
Hail Julius Caesar the Real Christ

https://youtu.be/tBiFnDuCJIU

c.a.,

Thanks for giving the deeper meaning and emotional center importance of your experience. The speech by Martin Luther King was very good in my opinion. And this post is getting to the "heart" of the self-representation/self-presentation issue I think. It is not just outward appearance we are dealing with but external consideration and how to act on it. This may mean we must look first inwardly and then become the new reality for which we hope.

It's not always easy to express what we feel inside and be externally considerate at the same time. At least this is what I am finding. I like the way you described the belt buckle and what it means to you. And for me I think it is more about the meaning of "things" than the things themselves. I have met a friend who's family was from the Basque region and find him to be very nice and interesting. The pictures add to our knowing more about you.

Thanks

 

[Laura]

If you wear a nice belt buckle, tuck your shirt in and show it off. Shirts that are made to be tucked in, SHOULD be tucked in. Otherwise, wear a different kind of shirt.

 

[Ca.]

If you wear a nice belt buckle, tuck your shirt in and show it off. Shirts that are made to be tucked in, SHOULD be tucked in. Otherwise, wear a different kind of shirt.

I do show it off though as much as like the buckle i also like the leather embossed belt. So can do and Thank you Laura.

Also Thanks goyacobol for your thoughts.