Session 11 October 2014

[mariowil7]

Hello Flow...

So, if the cold showers increase your core body temperature a degree or two, how it is going to affect the good bacteria? And is there an increased risk of fungal infections like when you usually have fever and dealing with bacterial infections?

In respect to Fungus that is what I found.

Risk Factors for Developing Fungal Infections

Use of drugs that suppress the immune system
Cancer chemotherapy drugs
Corticosteroids
Drugs to prevent rejection of an organ transplant, such as azathioprine

, methotrexate

, and cyclosporine

Disorders
AIDS
Burns, if extensive
Diabetes
Hodgkin lymphoma or other lymphomas
Kidney failure
Leukemia
Lung disorders, such as emphysema

_http://www.merckmanuals.com/home/infections/fungal_infections/overview_of_fungal_infections.html

I have a son with 9 years, that does The Work with me and my wife... he has Atopical Dermatitis (sensibility to fungus among other things)
Since he started the Cold Protocol I have noted that his Skin itching has increased. So I ask:

It is something related to what FLOW comments...?

Is there literature that talks about Fungus et al above 38.5 degres ??

any help will be welcomed...

 

[RedFox]

Hi mariowil7

What is your sons diet like and how long has he been on it? Is he eating plenty of animal fat?

From the cryo therapy thread:

I was standing in cold water for 3 minutes after taking a cool shower. I stopped with the cold water because of fatigue, but still use only cool water for the shower. I found that during those 3 minutes, my body would adjust to the cold and it would not feel cold, or at last as cold, after having been in it for about 1 minute. And after the 3 minutes, upon turning off the water, the air temperature felt warm to me.

After I had been eating the low carb/high fat diet for several months, I noticed dry patches appeared on 3 parts of my body. One on each forearm, about the size of a nickel, and one on the side of my face, close to the hairline and about the size of a dime. After taking the cold showers for a couple of weeks, all signs of the dry skin had gone and they have never returned, even though I quit the cold shower part of my shower.

Maybe I should just reduce the time I’m in the cold shower and continue doing them? The added fatigue I was feeling was really starting to get to me so I'm reluctant to try again.

As to the fungal connection, some things cold showers do is increase glutathione production (which helps detox the body, fungal infections increase body toxins), and increase all sorts of of things to do with the immune system. So unless a persons health is quite compromised (and the fungal infection is quite obvious i.e. it's all over them) I don't think cold showers will make a fungal infection worse.
As a guess he may have some gut problems and is perhaps not getting enough cystine for the glutathione production from his diet, so you could try a little extra protein or some NAC.
He could potentially have a slightly sluggish detox system/liver, so that may be something to look at if things don't clear up over time.

It's likely any initial symptoms (that don't last more than a week or two) are detox and adaption. If the symptoms persist more tan a few weeks then it would be something to investigate more thoroughly I think.

Is the itching bothering him?

 

[manitoban]

Also, doing this has brought interesting realizations: it is better when it is colder. The few days it was running around 16 degrees, the heater turned on faster and stronger. After the heater turns on, the water feels incredibly GOOD. I just sort of dog paddle around in circles to keep the cold water flowing on me and it produces a sensation of well-being that is hard to describe. I find myself becoming addicted to it! And this is crazy for a person who grew up in Florida and really, really, hated the cold!

I also notice that all my leg swelling is gone and even my varicose veins seem to be diminishing. My skin, overall, is much improved and I've stopped getting those weird old-age bruises on my arms. Even my little brown spots on the hands are fading.

I have had exactly the same experience and agree that colder is better!

My water temperature is now around 11/12 c and it is exhilarating. I have no doubt that this lifts my spirits and just feels so refreshing. I like to do my bath first thing now to start off the day feeling good. I have actually stopped using any warm or hot water at any time because cold water now feels more natural. And I was a person who had a long hot shower every morning and a hot bath at night!

I'm also noticing some of those nasty brown spots fading too and my skin just looks so much better. The benefits of cold therapy continue to amaze me and it's only early days yet!

 

[Siberia]

Thanks for this most interesting and informative session, Laura and the Crew!

A series of medical applications has been described (reviewed in [3]), including immune-stimulating and antiallergic activity as well as an ameliorating effect against gastric and intestinal ulcers and finally healing of bone fractures.

Thanks RedFox, your post reminded me of my childhood: probably every Soviet mother is familiar with mumijo (мумиё in Russian). Soviet living standards were deteriorating in the 80s (before the collapse of the USSR) and so was the country's pharma industry. So people applied many so-called "folk medicine" methods of treatment: herbs, inhalations, minerals, etc. And mumijo was also very popular. My mother also treated our family with it. I don't remember if it helped, but it was highly respected by everyone. People thought that it consisted of.. bat excrements found in caves (sorry, don't know if it's true or not, but this version was popular back then.. ). This version is also confirmed by Russian Wikipedia. It looks as dark brown (almost black) glittering stones with strong smell. And if you put this stone in water, it quickly dissolves - this is from my own memories of it. We used it for making compresses.

Russian Wikipedia also says (Google translate):

In the days of the Persian king Faridun, the authenticity of mumijo was biologically determined by the rate of fracture healing in small animals after greasing the fracture with a mixture of mumijo with rose oil. If mumijo was of high quality, the fracture healed in about a day. Aristotle treated patients with mumijo only after examining its quality: he cut liver of a lamb in two parts, greased them with mumijo and then put them together. If mumijo was of pure quality, the pieces of the liver immediately coalesced.

Sounds unbelievable, i don't know if it's true.

Soviet herbal therapy was also interesting: we used aloe, zolotoy us (callisia fragrans), zolotoy koren (rhodiola rosea), ginseng and many other herbs and roots. Every family grew their own plants at home on their window sills. fwiw

 

[Teresa]

Great session, thankyou.

Yep, those cold showers do take a lot of will power. As others have said, it is best to dive in at the coldest temperature, rather than reduce it slowly. Once the initial shock passes, it's really not that hard to stay in and I am of the skinny type who has always felt and avoided the cold. Doing this has definitely improved my cold tolerance and is a small price to pay for the benefit received.

Sometimes I will cold shower after using the sauna and although the initial cold shock is greater, I was wondering if this would be as effective due to the elevated body temperature? Maybe a longer time in the shower is needed for the same benefit.

As an alternative to showers, if the temperature is cold enough I sometimes just stand naked in the night air. This has produced good results as well, shivering the whole time, especially with a cool wind blowing. And it saves water (though I usually use ground water).

I've been wondering about this myself. Does it need to be water or is it just the cold?

According to Dr Jack Kruse, water adaption is the fastest way to do it, just 'adapting' in the air takes considerably longer.

...

...I found that the shock is what is wanted because that is what heats you up pretty fast. Within 3 minutes, I can feel the heater turn on inside. So I know that if I just get in there, EMBRACE the cold water fully and immediately, revel in the shock, I'll be warm in a minute or two.

Also, doing this has brought interesting realizations: it is better when it is colder. ... After the heater turns on, the water feels incredibly GOOD. ...

I also notice that all my leg swelling is gone and even my varicose veins seem to be diminishing. My skin, overall, is much improved and I've stopped getting those weird old-age bruises on my arms. Even my little brown spots on the hands are fading.
...

There's just NOTHING quite like that instant, whole body envelopment in cold water.

That has been my experience too in a 15C spring pool. Even the 'tingling' that I previously felt in my feet has reduced to almost nothing. :) Cold water adaption rocks!

Thank you Prodigal Son and Laura for that answer. It's not just the water it's the shock. I've also noticed some changes since I started taking cold showers. Last weekend I was at the beach and could not wait to get my feet into the cold pacific ocean. As a child I always loved the beach and the water but dreaded that initial first "dip". This time, I relished the waves and wished that I had brought a bathing suit because it felt so good.

 

[Εἰρήνη]

Some months back, in anticipation of doing cold therapy in a serious way, we acquired a really cheap above-ground pool. See attached photo.

Now, the plan was/is to implement the cold procedure every day even as the temperatures drop going into winter so as to gradually acclimate ourselves.

The water was plenty cool to begin with and the warmest it ever got was something like 23 C. Right about now, it is hovering around 17/18 degrees though a week ago it was 16.5. The weather is beginning to cool down and we expect some really frigid dips very soon.

Anyway, what I noticed is this: the important thing seems to be the all-over body shock that activates all kinds of mechanisms within. I started out being really hesitant about immersing myself fully. I tried all kinds of tricks to work my way into it, but in the end, I found that the shock is what is wanted because that is what heats you up pretty fast. Within 3 minutes, I can feel the heater turn on inside. So I know that if I just get in there, EMBRACE the cold water fully and immediately, revel in the shock, I'll be warm in a minute or two.

Also, doing this has brought interesting realizations: it is better when it is colder. The few days it was running around 16 degrees, the heater turned on faster and stronger. After the heater turns on, the water feels incredibly GOOD. I just sort of dog paddle around in circles to keep the cold water flowing on me and it produces a sensation of well-being that is hard to describe. I find myself becoming addicted to it! And this is crazy for a person who grew up in Florida and really, really, hated the cold!

I also notice that all my leg swelling is gone and even my varicose veins seem to be diminishing. My skin, overall, is much improved and I've stopped getting those weird old-age bruises on my arms. Even my little brown spots on the hands are fading.

It's been going down to 11 C for the past couple of nights and I expect it to be pretty cool when I go out there for my morning dip in about half an hour.

So, for those of you who are able and in the right environment, a small above-ground swimming pool might be the solution. There is a pump and sand filter and you can conserve water this way. They aren't deep, so you have to "sit down" in them, but if there are several people involved, all of you can get in at once if wanted.

There's just NOTHING quite like that instant, whole body envelopment in cold water.

This is a beautiful pool and yard you have there, Laura.
I have been doing the same thing in my pool. Before I used to heat up the pool and keep it warm, now the colder the better.
The only problem is this:
Sometimes when I dip my head into the cold water I get cold sores on my lips and temporary head aches and rarely ear aches. Maybe my body and my head specifically is not fully adapted to the cold water yet and I need to do it more gradually. But my body seems to be doing better than the head.
Did anyone have the same problem?
Is it advisable to dive into the cold water with the head or it is better to keep the head dry?

 

[mariowil7]

Thanks RedFox...

What is your sons diet like and how long has he been on it? Is he eating plenty of animal fat?

Well I and my wife have almost two and a half years practicing the Ketogenic Diet, EE, The Prayer, Meditation, Smoking Pipe (herbal tobacco) twice a day,
Networking (mostly sharing info from Sott.net to the Facebook/Tweeter duo, and with a month of Cold Protocol.

Our Son, 7 months ago since he started to live with us, he started to do the diet and some parts of the work as:

EE, The Prayer, Meditation, Cold Protocol (1 month) and of course the Ketogenic Diet with plenty of bacon and Eggs. And Omega 3 as Suplement (With
EPA 247 mg and DHA 115mg), Plus a pill of Coconut Oil every day.
We only allow him to eat at least 100g of carbs when he goes to visit his uncles in the weekends.
We eat plenty of Liver each week in our Protein department.

The problem we are facing here in South America (Brazil) is that we are in the middle of spring but with a sensation of being in summer (39 C° yesterday and today)

it has been a HOT spring, so we have reached ONLY 20 C° in the "Cold showers" Sometimes and maybe that is what is causing the itching problem.

But I decided to do the following, I will buy a Plastic Pool (for 1000 liters of water) this weekend and buy plastic bags of ice from a local Gas station (every time we take the shower.) To see if we can increase the temperature of our Cold Protocol and increase the production of glutathione consequently in all of us. Because I was aware of that information too

Living in a Tropical country is Huge CHALLENGE for us to apply the Cold Protocol, but we are doing our best to comply with it.

My concern was more related to the 38.5 C° (the In initial Fever stage) is there some information about people with Atopic Dermatitis...?

anyway many thanks RedFox for your input, I appreciate.

 

[Cosmos]

Great session, thankyou.

Yep, those cold showers do take a lot of will power. As others have said, it is best to dive in at the coldest temperature, rather than reduce it slowly. Once the initial shock passes, it's really not that hard to stay in and I am of the skinny type who has always felt and avoided the cold. Doing this has definitely improved my cold tolerance and is a small price to pay for the benefit received.

Sometimes I will cold shower after using the sauna and although the initial cold shock is greater, I was wondering if this would be as effective due to the elevated body temperature? Maybe a longer time in the shower is needed for the same benefit.

As an alternative to showers, if the temperature is cold enough I sometimes just stand naked in the night air. This has produced good results as well, shivering the whole time, especially with a cool wind blowing. And it saves water (though I usually use ground water).

I've been wondering about this myself. Does it need to be water or is it just the cold?

According to Dr Jack Kruse, water adaption is the fastest way to do it, just 'adapting' in the air takes considerably longer.

Mr. Scott had this to say about cold water versus cold air, in another thread:

It might work, but I'm guessing you'd have to spend more time in cold air of that temperature.

[...]

Since air isn't a good conductor of heat, I'm not sure how good 'cool' air would be at dropping skin temperature.

Just think of it this way: If a breeze hits your face at 15C, you might say, "Oh, that's refreshing."

If water at 15C hits your face, "refreshing" is not the first thing that will cross your mind. ;D

But, when it's actually COLD outside, you can definitely benefit from it, I think. The downside is that if you go walking around in your bathing suit when it's near freezing, your neighbors might call the Nice Men in White Coats.

And this as well: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,35908.msg519533.html#msg519533

Cold air is a bit different to cold water, and how quickly it effects your body. Water has more conductivity so you theoratically would need to expose yourself a lot longer to the cold air, to get the same results compared to cold water at the same temperature. Also the shocking factor is probaply not that big with cold air, which sems to be kind of a key here.

 

[Cosmos]

I have been doing the same thing in my pool. Before I used to heat up the pool and keep it warm, now the colder the better.
The only problem is this:
Sometimes when I dip my head into the cold water I get cold sores on my lips and temporary head aches and rarely ear aches. Maybe my body and my head specifically is not fully adapted to the cold water yet and I need to do it more gradually. But my body seems to be doing better than the head.
Did anyone have the same problem?
Is it advisable to dive into the cold water with the head or it is better to keep the head dry?

I'll also completely cover my head with cold water during the bath and/or shower. The head definitely starts to hurt pretty quickly in the beginning, and when you can't tolerate it anymore, I would suggest to just stop and acclimate yourself to it in steps. I'm doing it now for several weeks and I notice that the headache almost isn't there anymore. You adapt to it. At the beginning of the shower I still notice sometimes the pain when I can't tolerate it anymore (head), then I just don't let the water flow over my head any longer and wait until it is gone and then I do it again. You will notice that you can hold your head much longer under the cold water at the end of the shower until it starts to hurt. Also sometimes it seems I'm less or more sensitive to it, even though the water is still on the same temperature. Some days I don't get headaches at all, on some days they come pretty quickly and on other days they come after a while.

 

[Alana]

Has anyone had an emotional reaction cold showers/baths (other than "yikes!")?

I did!

I've been taking baths at 19/20C which seems to be enough to get me shivering withing 2 minutes (one of the skinny ones here). I usually take a book to distract myself for the 20 min. The last one was strange because as soon as I eased into the water I got very emotionally upset, "this is so cold, I don't like this, etc." and then I started crying. I did stay in for the full time, shivering and crying and part of me wondering what the heck was going on.

I had the thought that maybe the physical shivering was inducting, so to speak, an emotional release as Levine has described it. That is the physical action of shivering brought on the the release of some sort of stuck emotional energy for which shivering was appropriate. In any case, it was weird. The next day I was really tired.

I had exactly the same experience about a month ago at a friend's pool. The water must have been also around 19/20 C. I generally laugh as a reaction when I am in pain, like when getting a deep tissue massage, or as soon as I immerse myself in cold water. That day, as soon as I was in, I started laughing, but very soon I started crying very sincerely. I had no clue what it was, why, or whatnot, but my crying didn't last long. What I now remember is that I also felt emotionally hurt, but it lasted about a minute, and then I felt fine again. I actually had forgotten it and your words brought it to mind.

But I am glad to read others experiences also, because when I am at my house in my bath the coldest water so far has been 19 C and when the other day I immersed myself in what would have been like 17-18, I didn't suffer as much! Now I wonder what being in 15 C feels like. Probably so cold that the body is numb to feeling! :P

 

[Atomas]

Another brilliant session! I really admire how the team is able to connect all the dots given a clue. Thank you all.

Cold baths and showers for 10-15 min?! Never thought about doing this by myself while looking at guys who jump into the sea or lake at late autumn/early spring time(I love hot shower/bath), however, some feedback I read here have changed my mind. Especially if that's the right way of getting rid of some viruses and strengthening one's immune system.

 

[happyliza]

Is the same result achieved by going into the sea in winter? I swim regularly for the benefit of the salt for healing and lung cleansing as well as the aerobic exercises. I think the sea will be colder than my shower in winter as the tank is on the roof.

Another query is in the bath-tub would I still get the benefit from the magnesium bath salts seeing as cold water contracts the pores?

Would there be any extra benefit in rubbing/massaging the body with a loofah or similar to stimulate the circulation etc?



I too have itchy minute blister type whitish 'spots' under the skin on the tops of my hands. They have been there for over 2 years now, at first I thought it was heat rash but have my doubts now. So will be interesting to see if the itching stops and they die down with the cold showers.

 

[SMM]

Wow, what a brilliant session! A lot of excellent questions and answers here, thank you all who were involved in it

 

[Alchemie]

I found especially the context between DNA and soul interesting. The influence not only with diet and trauma work, but also the importance of souls, soul groups, network ...

 

[Courageous Inmate Sort]

Our Son, 7 months ago since he started to live with us, he started to do the diet and some parts of the work as:

EE, The Prayer, Meditation, Cold Protocol (1 month) and of course the Ketogenic Diet with plenty of bacon and Eggs. And Omega 3 as Suplement (With
EPA 247 mg and DHA 115mg), Plus a pill of Coconut Oil every day.
We only allow him to eat at least 100g of carbs when he goes to visit his uncles in the weekends.
We eat plenty of Liver each week in our Protein department.

The problem we are facing here in South America (Brazil) is that we are in the middle of spring but with a sensation of being in summer (39 C° yesterday and today)

it has been a HOT spring, so we have reached ONLY 20 C° in the "Cold showers" Sometimes and maybe that is what is causing the itching problem.

But I decided to do the following, I will buy a Plastic Pool (for 1000 liters of water) this weekend and buy plastic bags of ice from a local Gas station (every time we take the shower.) To see if we can increase the temperature of our Cold Protocol and increase the production of glutathione consequently in all of us. Because I was aware of that information too

Living in a Tropical country is Huge CHALLENGE for us to apply the Cold Protocol, but we are doing our best to comply with it.

My concern was more related to the 38.5 C° (the In initial Fever stage) is there some information about people with Atopic Dermatitis...?

anyway many thanks RedFox for your input, I appreciate.

I'm having the same problem (I'm in Brazil too). I filled up the bathtub earlier this week and the 'cold' water was almost 30°C. Also having problems because of the constant water shortages, so filling the bathtub everyday is not a good thing right now. Unfortunately I don't have space for a pool but it seems a good idea together with the filter Laura mentioned to save water.

About your son's atopic dermatitis, is there a chance that there is another component - maybe even in the diet - that may be triggering the itching? I ask because I did a quick google search and from some comments I read it looks like cold showers alleviate the symptoms of atopic dermatitis/eczema for some people. Did you try stopping the showers for a while to see if the itching improves or worsens?

However, this article from PubMed mentions this (link):

The following can make atopic dermatitis symptoms worse:
(...)
Drying out of the skin from taking too many baths or showers and swimming too often
Getting too hot or too cold, as well as sudden changes of temperature

So maybe he is really having a reaction to the rapid temperature variation. Perhaps a gradual approach could benefit him?