Session 11 October 2014

[Inga]

Yesterday I put the water in the tub. The water temperature was 12 C. After the initial body adapted and I enjoyed myself. After 12 minutes I again I took her temperature and water was 14 C, my body has warmed. I stayed in cold water more 2 minutes.
This dip in the tub I prefer, I do not get bored as when showering.

Today I can not wait to repeat the cold bath.

 

[Laura]

I have been doing the same thing in my pool. Before I used to heat up the pool and keep it warm, now the colder the better.
The only problem is this:
Sometimes when I dip my head into the cold water I get cold sores on my lips and temporary head aches and rarely ear aches. Maybe my body and my head specifically is not fully adapted to the cold water yet and I need to do it more gradually. But my body seems to be doing better than the head.
Did anyone have the same problem?
Is it advisable to dive into the cold water with the head or it is better to keep the head dry?

I'll also completely cover my head with cold water during the bath and/or shower. The head definitely starts to hurt pretty quickly in the beginning, and when you can't tolerate it anymore, I would suggest to just stop and acclimate yourself to it in steps. I'm doing it now for several weeks and I notice that the headache almost isn't there anymore. You adapt to it. At the beginning of the shower I still notice sometimes the pain when I can't tolerate it anymore (head), then I just don't let the water flow over my head any longer and wait until it is gone and then I do it again. You will notice that you can hold your head much longer under the cold water at the end of the shower until it starts to hurt. Also sometimes it seems I'm less or more sensitive to it, even though the water is still on the same temperature. Some days I don't get headaches at all, on some days they come pretty quickly and on other days they come after a while.

I don't plunge my head in the water. I figure if it causes a headache, not a good thing. I just get in, sit down quickly until the water is up to my chin and start slowly perambulating around the pool in circles. I let the back of my head get wet and I splash water on my face, but I don't see a lot of point in immersing the head since the vagus nerve and carotid artery enters into the skull at the base, and if you have the cold water up to the chin, you have the main parts in the water (including the brown fat on the chest, shoulders and neck).

 

[Laura]

I was thinking that maybe some of the skinnies ought to reduce their time in cold water a bit. I just read an article on sott about the temp of the Great Lakes and the guy said that water pulls heat from the body 25 times more efficiently than air. Ya'll don't want to get into hypothermia.

So how about a sort of rule of thumb, adjustable to specific cases, that skinnies stay in 30 seconds per degree of temp C when they start experimenting with colder water, like 20 C or lower? For water that is 15C, which is pretty cold, that would be 7.5 minutes only.

 

[Gaby]

About your son's atopic dermatitis, is there a chance that there is another component - maybe even in the diet - that may be triggering the itching? I ask because I did a quick google search and from some comments I read it looks like cold showers alleviate the symptoms of atopic dermatitis/eczema for some people. Did you try stopping the showers for a while to see if the itching improves or worsens?

Diet plays an important role, also, we have posted research about it regarding cold adaptation and skin problems under Jack Kruse's thread. This is the relevant post:

The Cold Thermogenesis Protocol
_http://jackkruse.com/the-evolution-of-the-leptin-rx/

If you develop cold urticaria at this time, this is a sign you have high levels of tissue and serum omega six content or your body has lost energy from EMF/artificial light due to dehydration.

The healthier your fatty composition is, the better. Toxic fats can have a very toxic effect in your body's cell membranes, skin, etc. It is very important to be gluten free, GMO free and so forth... but also avoid trans fats like the plague. That stuff oxidizes your fat and problems can manifest as skin problems among other things.

 

[loreta]

Today I took my shower outside, on my roof. Here we have roofs in every building, so I took my cold shower looking at the mountains, the sky, the ocean. It was colder than when I take my shower at home and I will take my cold shower like that, every morning. By the way, my dogs were really looking at me with surprise. ;)

 

[Ollie]

Today I took my shower outside, on my roof. Here we have roofs in every building, so I took my cold shower looking at the mountains, the sky, the ocean. It was colder than when I take my shower at home and I will take my cold shower like that, every morning. By the way, my dogs were really looking at me with surprise. ;)

I agree, taking cold water adaption outside is much more fun than taking cold showers inside, there is so much more to occupy the mind - nature, and then time flies by. Cold showers I find boring with a lack of what to focus on to pass the time away.

 

[mariowil7]

Thanks Courageous Inmate Sort!...

Did you try stopping the showers for a while to see if the itching improves or worsens?

Next week after installing the Plastic Pool (it is easy...) We want to experiment with the Aprox. 10C° - 15C° Temps ( how to adjust this just by pouring ice
will be a bit of a challenge too.... lots of trial and error with the Thermometer will be needed to get to the righ Temp.)

We will test first if the increase in production of Glutathione decreases his itching... if it worsens for him then we will stop it for a while to see if it improves.

The following can make atopic dermatitis symptoms worse:
(...)
Drying out of the skin from taking too many baths or showers and swimming too often
Getting too hot or too cold, as well as sudden changes of temperature


So maybe he is really having a reaction to the rapid temperature variation. Perhaps a gradual approach could benefit him?

If stopping for a while improves then definitely we will start with the gradative approach to se if we can find the right point for him...

Many thanks again Courageous Inmate Sort. ;)

Thanks Gaby.

The healthier your fatty composition is, the better. Toxic fats can have a very toxic effect in your body's cell membranes, skin, etc. It is very important to be gluten free, GMO free and so forth... but also avoid trans fats like the plague. That stuff oxidizes your fat and problems can manifest as skin problems among other things.

This is an area where we have a lot of dificulty (finding organic raised porks the source of Bacon) almost all the bacon that we find here
we suspect that it is not of the ideal quality.

We are very rigid with the Gluten and GMO stuff. but sometimes it is not easy to avoid some GMO (specially because of the lack of control of
the food industry here specially the agro-Industry.)

The Cold Thermo genesis Protocol was very informative (a Must reading it now) Thanks again Gaby!...

 

[will01]

Thanks for all the info on air vs water guys. Will stick to showers from now on.

Today I took my shower outside, on my roof. Here we have roofs in every building, so I took my cold shower looking at the mountains, the sky, the ocean. It was colder than when I take my shower at home and I will take my cold shower like that, every morning. By the way, my dogs were really looking at me with surprise. ;)

When I use water for cold therapy, I mostly use a garden sprinkler which I hang up in a tree, close to the dog's kennels. They look on in amazement at my reaction to the initial shock and subsequent antics!

 

[Meg]

Has anyone had an emotional reaction cold showers/baths (other than "yikes!")?

I did!

I have too. Laughing, then bursting into tears or just bursting into tears. It seems there is a cathartic effect. :D

 

[RedFox]

What is your sons diet like and how long has he been on it? Is he eating plenty of animal fat?

Well I and my wife have almost two and a half years practicing the Ketogenic Diet, EE, The Prayer, Meditation, Smoking Pipe (herbal tobacco) twice a day,
Networking (mostly sharing info from Sott.net to the Facebook/Tweeter duo, and with a month of Cold Protocol.

Our Son, 7 months ago since he started to live with us, he started to do the diet and some parts of the work as:

EE, The Prayer, Meditation, Cold Protocol (1 month) and of course the Ketogenic Diet with plenty of bacon and Eggs. And Omega 3 as Suplement (With
EPA 247 mg and DHA 115mg), Plus a pill of Coconut Oil every day.
We only allow him to eat at least 100g of carbs when he goes to visit his uncles in the weekends.
We eat plenty of Liver each week in our Protein department.

The rash could be caused by the coconut oil, and possibly the eggs. Perhaps try dropping the coconut oil for a week and see what happens? :)

 

[shellycheval]

I am switching to cold baths instead of cold showers. In the past I have been brave about submerging myself into cold water quickly in lakes (including lake Superior as a child) and pools, finding it easier than the drawn out "torture" of slow immersion, but I find switching to cold in a shower with the water moving is worse--I swear my heart stops for a moment with the shock! ;). The moving water creates a "breeze" along with the cold that fluctuates the experience of the temperature and I feel like I cannot adapt or get "comfortable"/used to the cold like I can do in a more still body of water. I'll let you know how it goes. I have a deep well, close to 400 feet, and can fill the tub daily with no problem. Is there any consensus on whether it is better to do cold immersion before bed or in the morning, vary it, or no difference?

 

[Alana]

I am switching to cold baths instead of cold showers. In the past I have been brave about submerging myself into cold water quickly in lakes (including lake Superior as a child) and pools, finding it easier than the drawn out "torture" of slow immersion, but I find switching to cold in a shower with the water moving is worse--I swear my heart stops for a moment with the shock! ;). The moving water creates a "breeze" along with the cold that fluctuates the experience of the temperature and I feel like I cannot adapt or get "comfortable"/used to the cold like I can do in a more still body of water. I'll let you know how it goes. I have a deep well, close to 400 feet, and can fill the tub daily with no problem. Is there any consensus on whether it is better to do cold immersion before bed or in the morning, vary it, or no difference?

I tend to do it in the morning or early afternoon the latest, because it tends to energize me and awake me for the rest of the day. I haven't done it at night though, so I don't know if there are any benefits to it then. I'd be curious to hear from other people if they tried it at night, and if/how it affects their sleeping later.

And yes, I too consider the shower as slow torture. I'd rather get fully in the bath and just "suffer" for the first few minutes. Then it gets more comfortable.

 

[luc]

Also, doing this has brought interesting realizations: it is better when it is colder. The few days it was running around 16 degrees, the heater turned on faster and stronger. After the heater turns on, the water feels incredibly GOOD. I just sort of dog paddle around in circles to keep the cold water flowing on me and it produces a sensation of well-being that is hard to describe. I find myself becoming addicted to it! And this is crazy for a person who grew up in Florida and really, really, hated the cold!

I also notice that all my leg swelling is gone and even my varicose veins seem to be diminishing. My skin, overall, is much improved and I've stopped getting those weird old-age bruises on my arms. Even my little brown spots on the hands are fading.

I have had exactly the same experience and agree that colder is better!

Same here (with cold showers) - when it's "lukewarm", I get really uncomfortable, but the colder it gets, the more I actually enjoy it! It takes me a 1 minute or so to get used to it though... What really helps me is conscious, slow breathing and relaxation exercises (like deliberately letting my shoulders hang down, relaxing muscles etc.) However, it DOES cost me some willpower to actually get in there :)

 

[Nienna]

Hi mariowil7

What is your sons diet like and how long has he been on it? Is he eating plenty of animal fat?

From the cryo therapy thread:

I was standing in cold water for 3 minutes after taking a cool shower. I stopped with the cold water because of fatigue, but still use only cool water for the shower. I found that during those 3 minutes, my body would adjust to the cold and it would not feel cold, or at last as cold, after having been in it for about 1 minute. And after the 3 minutes, upon turning off the water, the air temperature felt warm to me.

After I had been eating the low carb/high fat diet for several months, I noticed dry patches appeared on 3 parts of my body. One on each forearm, about the size of a nickel, and one on the side of my face, close to the hairline and about the size of a dime. After taking the cold showers for a couple of weeks, all signs of the dry skin had gone and they have never returned, even though I quit the cold shower part of my shower.

Maybe I should just reduce the time I’m in the cold shower and continue doing them? The added fatigue I was feeling was really starting to get to me so I'm reluctant to try again.

I'd just like to update this. I am, again, doing the cold showers. I still start with very cool water and then increase it to cold. It's not as cold as it could be as I am going slowly, but it could be in the right range (I don't, yet, have a temperature gauge on my shower head). I really do enjoy them and am making the cooler water colder at the start each time I shower. I'm in the cool/cold water for about 10 minutes each shower.

And, those patches of dry skin never came back. :)

 

[truth seeker]

I've been doing the cold showers in the morning, but for a couple of days I added the bath in the evenings when I have more time. The baths seem more effective to me for reasons stated by others. With the last bath I took, I could almost swear that the water felt warmer after a time. Strange.

When I initially did this a couple of years ago, the shivering lasted for quite a while afterwards (at least an hour), but now, there is almost no shivering. I'm not sure whether this is due to some adaptive process that occurred since then or if it's because the water here isn't as cold. I suspect this may change as the weather gets colder. The general feeling, however, was more like an internal chill that took some time to subside. Sort of like NEAT or non-excersise activity thermogenesis (see below). I did one of the baths after eating a high fat meal. Just broth with a lot of fat in it, but that may have also been helpful in terms of my perception of water temperature.

I also added ee afterwards this time and on the second bath day (thinking of wim hof here), I did experience an emotional release but was able to tag it to a thought/feeling so it doesn't seem to be quite as "primal" as what others have relayed.

I'm interested in doing part of the ee program while in the bath and seeing what, if any changes may occur.

In terms of NEAT, I came across a study that I found to be interesting if true. This bit in particular stuck out for me:

Shivering in both animals and
humans generally is measured by means of electromyography
in both animals and humans. In humans, volunteers are also
asked to report shivering. Shivering and nonshivering thermo-
genesis were also reported to occur simultaneously in both
animals and humans [see among others the “classical” studies
of Davis et al. (30) and Davis (31)]. NST is described in cold
acclimatization experiments in rats (30, 33). During daily cold
exposure, shivering gradually decreased toward zero intensity
in 20 days, but oxygen consumption remained elevated (30).
This indicates the gradual increase of the NST component.
This experiment was repeated later in men, indicating a non-
shivering component in human adults, although not as large as
shown in rodents (31). Human newborns are able to increase
their energy expenditure more than twofold. According to
Brück (14) and Himms-Hagen (56), shivering does not occur in
newborns, and the increase has thus been attributed to non-
shivering thermogenesis. However, it is well known that cold
induces restlessness and crying in infants and thus a form of
NEAT is likely to be involved as well.

_http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/ajpregu/301/2/R285.full.pdf

So perhaps the shivering is related to emotional trauma as others have said, but the restlessness and crying may in some cases be more of a primal nature? The shivering/convulsions may well be a physical mechanism that releases trauma and various states of dissociation. Sort of akin to an emotional reset.