Session 13 December 2014

[Mountain Crown]

I know I'm playing various roles

In regards to role playing, I think it pays to consider if it’s happening mechanically or consciously. External Consideration may call for it.

Non-pathological dissociation occurs when our attention is rooted in imagination, internal considerations, or during mechanistic pastimes like playing computer games that require a minimal amount of mental effort, or like what happens when driving a car or sitting on a long bus ride. We dissociate also as a coping mechanism during stress.

So it seems to me the best thing we can do is continue to strive for self observation, and find ways to break free from the power of imagination and the prison of internal considering. Maybe the first step would be to remember ourselves, and to participate in our surroundings in a conscientious manner?

 

[WIN 52]

Self observation with regards to working on identification of various influences that we are dealing with in this STS World, the main one being this Wetiko, that causes people to do what they do.

Now, since March, this has played a role in events leading to some revelations and of course many more questions. The session in June that brought up the Wetiko was timely and helped me to understand a bit more. Since then, I have been working to try and Idetify when it is me or something else driving my actions. I would ask, who is this or which one of the I's are you? After a while I began to see a black shadow, which would fly away. I could ask and would get a reply of many voices, a chorus.

Continuing this approach, the chorus of voices was reduced. Then when asking who is this, I saw a figure in white looking back at me. This figure then opened a door and went behind the door. Was this my spirit? The dark ones could not look at me, but this one looked directly at me. It was not like the others, who wanted to control my thoughts. So, after a time of observation, I decided to work with this white spirit. So far, when I ask this spirit to walk with me, my day takes on a different tone. I am not quite sure how to explain it. The dogs seem to be responding by their behavior being off a bit, which reminds me that my machine may be taken over at the time, so I change operators and their behavior changes for the better.

Could this be, in part, how to achieve some of the things that the C's tell us about? Who is operating the machine?

Warlocks/witches seem to have some sort of powers, and I would have to assume that there would be some sort of high powered Wetiko running their machines, at least the Black ones.

 

[eleusis]

There's so much more I would like to discuss, and it's kind of backed up in my mind, but for me and my context, what I've been doing and how I have been behaving is not enough. I've been avoiding the forum and avoiding the hard work necessary to know myself, remember myself and allow others in and to pay back my debts properly and graciously. Thanks for pointing it out.

Jerry thank you for your words. Very kind, concise and helpful. Shucks, another debt. :) Well, better start learning how to pay it all back.

 

[mabar]

Thanks for the session, it reminded me from the first issue, a friend, he gave me the book ISOTM, we used to talk about the book, alien stuff, ghosts, spirits, anime, his spouse wasn't thrilled about it, everytime we hooked in those topics she interrupted us and/or complain that she was bored and want it to leave the meeting, once we reunited (we usually talk outside smoking) with the rest of the friends (inside) she ususally forgot about leaving or being bored. One day, like 7 years ago, he told me that he decided to not talk about those topics and ask me to not bring them anymore, he wanted to be happy with his spouse, they were going to adopt kids since they couldn't have them for more than ten years, and he wanted to go in that "normal" life. I respect it.

They adopted two kids, a brother and sister, but problems, related I assume, emerge, and from what I had been told by her, he ended up having esquizofrenia, and they separated, as expected I would say, he use to have the "gift" to see ghosts even dogs, he once missed time like 4 hours, and other kind of strange things, if he was not able to talked about it, not even with the one who -presumably- is the one who trust more, I am not surprised of his mental state health.

It was thinking about commitments this morning, workers are not my family, but at a certain sense, to me they had become with a similar connection, regarding commitment. Work being applied as well, trying to apply, I do have still many mistakes with them, with it -the store as a job- this goes in the direction of this group's aim, hadn't be able to make a balance. Is desirable the path you have chosen, buf! and buts. I will stop here, I just came to this kind of moments of mine that the expression had been halted. And the only thing it comes out is a sigh.

I was going to say for a second time, I think remember, that I was going to reread Martha Stout's book and hadn't done it, I have another dissociation, here is the sign, no more to say. Thanks again.

I think is related to karma and my resistances.

 

[A.K.]

This session bring light to me. "Know both sides of the coin to determine the true value of it."
Thank you everyone for your efforts

 

[Nienna]

There's so much more I would like to discuss, and it's kind of backed up in my mind, but for me and my context, what I've been doing and how I have been behaving is not enough. I've been avoiding the forum and avoiding the hard work necessary to know myself, remember myself and allow others in and to pay back my debts properly and graciously. Thanks for pointing it out.

If you have much to discuss and it's kind of backed up, you know that we are here to listen and help. That's what this network is all about. :)

 

[eleusis]

Thank you Nienna. :)

 

[gdpetti]

On the balance of knowledge vs being, didn't G attempt to break this cycle or groove by force? Through 'pushing their buttons'? Works on some and not others, but perhaps the best 'work' along this line is with those we hate... not detest, as that seems to bring up the whole shield of the intellect to protect the ego against the emotions. Start with the petty tyrants before moving on to the larger ones perhaps. Someone posted a link to a thread started by this Parallel person, and it seems to be mostly an intellectual discussion. I didn't read past the first page, but no words of emotion were found. How can someone deal with the emotional grooves if they are ignored? Isn't this why G tried his assist through force? If the target doesn't 'fight back', then it's a waste of time as he seems to have often discovered.

A similar method is bibliotherapy, using books, films etc to whet the appetite and bring up the emotions and all their associated crap. As long as one has had an experience along that archetype/path/line of force/energy expression, then it should be possible to identify and do the processing, work etc... it should help trigger the experience over and over as many times as necessary. Of course, it isn't as much 'fun' as having a real person there to push us over the edge of sanity... which is so much faster, as even the forced method is fake and needs the intellect left at the door to work, otherwise the intellect will act as a shield and close up like a bubble around you.... drawing in the energies like a black hole.

Wasn't there that person in the group awhile back that was good at pushing people's buttons? Female, though I thought the energies were masculine... something with an A wasn't it? Moderator.... who had her own issues which she acted out on others..Anart?? Another thought, if I remember correctly, was one of the earlier sessions with the C's that mentioned a friend of Laura's who seemed to vent her own negativity unto others who then got infected and had physical issues/problems as a result of their own inability to deal with their emotional issues. Along this line of thinking, "Frank" did wonders didn't he? Perhaps not intentionally, but isn't that their way? "Thanks for the memories...." Catalyst, if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger, right?

 

[Deleted member 9511]

Thanks, thank you all for the session.

Even being raised as a Catholic I have little or none problem to accept that Jesus never existed. Actually I kind of wondered this before all the current discussions, here or over there, not only by my literary research but even earlier as a feeling in my heart. Also I do understand the difficult for spreading the light in this realm of darkness; nevertheless (sorry) I still didn't understand how there was not disinformation? If I recall correctly the C's talked a lot about a Jesus resurrected and who afterwards took a mother-ship. That does mean that in fact a man (later firmly took as Jesus) was reanimated from a comma and was taken into a mother-ship? If so, who? And that did happen around the same spoken period of time?

Actually, what was said was not that he was "resurrected" but:

Q: (L) Details about Jesus' extended "sleep" state.

A: He spent 96 hours in a comatose state in a cave near Jerusalem. When he awoke, he prophesied to his disciples and then exited the cave. 27,000 people had assembled because of mother ship appearance and he was taken up in a beam of light.

At this point, we don't know that something like this did NOT happen to SOMEONE, especially considering the weird things that were reported by many people before, during, and after the siege and destruction of Jerusalem, and made it into the texts of several historians, parts of which are still in Tacitus and Josephus. During such times, all kinds of anomalous things can happen and later be assimilated into stories and legends.

Pretty sure that didn't happen to Julius Caesar because I didn't learn it in school :P

The character known by the moniker "Jesus" is a composite of numerous myths as well as based on the life of a real historical person and still another.

There was a recent thread on the forum talking about "Jesus was Caesar" by Carotta. From what I read of the book, it was clear that Caesar's life played a part in the constructing of the Church symbolism. From reading "Caesar's Messiah" by Atwill, I notice a pattern, and maybe both books are correct, or are on the right track. All the references in Josephus' "Wars of the Jews", which I have not read except for excerpts from other sources, point to the parallels in the lives of Jesus and and Titus. Now my own belief, that there was a sage in Jerusalem somewhat contemporary to both Caesar and Titus, who was teaching esoteric wisdom such as found in the Gospel of Thomas. Much or even most of those sayings are in the Q document, though it's been a while since I've read anything having to do with ancient source texts. I think there was some of it covered in SHOTW, but I don't recall. So, given this quote from the C's, it would seem convenient and quite easy for an imperial power to usurp the power of a movement that promotes the Work, such as might be promoted by distributing the sayings within Thomas, while conflating it all with known, state figures. First, the apparently wise and beloved Caesar, perhaps not quite a sage, but likely a philosopher-king (who knows, maybe my supposed sage was a court-guru of sorts for Caesar), whose life story would have a wide appeal. And then, when the iron is hot, so to speak, Titus et al would wrap it all up by creating the final version of the myths that have stuck around for 2000 years, and possibly installing Paul as the Pope to promote the Roman agenda, with Christianity as a cover to mollify the upstart Christian.

Totally speculative, but fun anyway. I might just have to finish Carotta's book and go back and cross-check some things. Then again, I do have Work to do...

 

[Skyfarmr]

Thank you all for the session and the insightful comments and contributions. (Not sure who Bernard is, not on FB, but interesting nonetheless.

In the last session Laura asked about personal questions being asked during the session.

(L) And this is the topic I would like to address: personal questions. I have noticed that on many occasions, starting off with a somewhat personal question has led to something of universal interest for everyone. So, I want to know: is there some kind of... I mean, I'm assuming that a personal question is not... Well, that there's different classifications. Some personal questions might be personal, but they're universally interesting, and other personal questions are just specific to that individual themselves. In that case, is it okay to ask questions that are, or may be, universally interesting or that may lead to discussions that are of universal interest?

After reading the many responses regarding Parallel's question, it seems this would qualify as one which has universal interest for everyone, myself included. Thank you for having the courage to delve into what presents itself to many of us as formidable territory.
Adds a whole new meaning of 'being stuck in a rut". The many responses have contributed very useful food for thought, though right now my thoughts feel a bit like a scattered jigsaw puzzle, lying under a stack of paperwork, beside a mountain of dishes, etc.... all tasks which I will try to approach with mindfulness, instead of using them to rehearse feelings and emotions which just serve to wear the ruts down deeper.

thank you, again. When I can remove the log out of my eye, I just might be able to be of service to help remove the sliver out of another's. I'm very grateful for everyones insights which serve as a wench to assist in that overwhelming task.

I really appreciated this comment by Gaby. The concept hit a few nerves which need soothing, thank you for the timely reminder of Mate's work.

Thank you for sharing!

Q: (L) What they're talking about is the habitual dissociation. Paying close and careful attention to what's outside, and responding to it, is what you've almost never used.

A: You live your life from inside a bubble.

Q: (Pierre) A bubble that is between you and interacting with reality.

A: Entropy awaits if you do not take advantage of the present opportunities.

FWIW, this session reminds me of the research shared by Gabor Maté in "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts". As he says,

"Situations or activities that for the average person are likely to bring satisfaction are undervalued because, in the addict's life, they have not been rewarding, i.e. intimate connections with family".

The concept of "addict" can be applied to outdated patterns of behavior such as the deep tracks in the brain described.

Time to finish Realms of Hungry Ghosts...

 

[Divide by Zero]

I know I'm playing various roles

In regards to role playing, I think it pays to consider if it’s happening mechanically or consciously. External Consideration may call for it.

Non-pathological dissociation occurs when our attention is rooted in imagination, internal considerations, or during mechanistic pastimes like playing computer games that require a minimal amount of mental effort, or like what happens when driving a car or sitting on a long bus ride. We dissociate also as a coping mechanism during stress.

So it seems to me the best thing we can do is continue to strive for self observation, and find ways to break free from the power of imagination and the prison of internal considering. Maybe the first step would be to remember ourselves, and to participate in our surroundings in a conscientious manner?

Thanks for the session.

Pegasus,
As for the role playing, I feel like the recent article on sott about mindfulness ( http://www.sott.net/article/290262-Mindfulness-defined-by-Jon-Kabat-Zinn ) really explained it well to me and how it can be used in everyday tasks, not just EE time!

So, the key might be to examine all the clues of the situation in order to grab a glimpse of the objectivity in the moment. So knowing that you might be "over feeling" or "over valuing" the situation is as problematic as when someone hides inside and withdraws.
But like Jerry said, self observation is the key, and the mindfulness article really helped me make a connection between my own experiences with dissasociation and "over feeling" and how that in itself creates false positive or false negative impressions of things.

 

[eleusis]

Divide By Zero. Thanks for the information I'll check it out and consider what you said. The words "dissociation" and "bubble" stuck out for me in the last session. Have been keeping a bit of a dissociative bubble journal past few days. Amazing the amount of mechanical programs and dissociation that goes on all the time. I will open up a thread later. I'm on the road right now and not at home. Thanks.

 

[sToRmR1dR]

Thank you for sharing the session.

 

[Gwenllian]

I think a major part of the answer is in the transcript:

A: Keep in mind that you have dealt with things the same way for so long that there are very deep tracks in the brain. At the same time, there are circuits that have been little or never used. This must change!!! Super efforts are needed or you will deteriorate rapidly!

and

Q: (L) What they're talking about is the habitual dissociation. Paying close and careful attention to what's outside, and responding to it, is what you've almost never used.

A way to see it is that habits create imprinting (imprints reinforce habits and the whole thing keeps cycling) and the mind will use those tracks whenever it has an opportunity because energy has to flow somewhere and if there is a conduit, that's where it goes (we cannot do/think nothing unless we're organically dead). You cannot stop a river but you can deviate it, and that's where the super effort of creating new imprints comes in, creating new circuits in the brain. Once the new tracks become stronger, the old undesirable tracks will little by little lose their preponderance out of misuse, and because energy has other routes to explore. It is like training a muscle that has never served.

Doing what "it" doesn't like is mostly doing what "it" has been lazy to do, under directed conditions.

Does that also entail positive disintegration and a feeling of loss or depression?
I have been looking at a few of my issues and it makes me sad when I realise what I have done or haven't done. I am not beating myself up for it all the time, although I do have that tendency.
Somehow it feels like grief. Hope this is clear.

 

[Yas]

Thank you very much for the session! It contains a lot to think of as usual. Both the last one and this one come very timely for me as I been thinking a lot about some of what have been exposed in them.

(L) Well, I tell you, some of their answers about some of the alien questions where they couldn't tell me something right then, that actually made me turn away from it right then. It was like, "Nyah nyah-nyah nyah-nyah!" like little kids. So, I just decided that path wasn't the right one. I just continued research along certain other lines. And that's when, as I said, I came to the idea that the whole "alien reality" is a paranormal reality. Yes, it does have a very physical manifestation, but that manifestation is through people. It's through human beings. Yes, they can manifest visually in our world and a few other things. And if they break down in our world, artifacts remain – or so we are told... From the paranormal side, there are ectoplasmic things or something similar that can be left in our world. There are things that can be transported from one dimension to another, from past to future, or so we are told and I’ve seen some evidence. There ARE all those kinds of things. But primarily, the alleged alien reality interacts with our world as a paranormal phenomenon. That means that we need to look more carefully at what happens to people and with people

.

I've been thinking a lot about this in regards to what the Cs always say about "knowledge protects", specifically regarding high strangeness phenomena and its relation to our own internal landscape.

From what I've heard from some other members, we have had some high strangeness things happening in our lives which stopped or diminished once we started reading The Wave and engaging in the Work. I think that diet helped a lot with this, but for me it stopped even before I applied mayor changes in diet. So I was wondering about the mechanism in which this Knowledge (and development of Being) actually protects and I thought that some of these phenomena can very well be projections of our inner turmoil that we aren't recognizing as our own, so we see them as exterior thing happening to us - another way of not taking responsibility for it. And once we start observing ourselves and recognizing our shadow a little, we start integrating these things as parts of ourselves and we no longer project everything outwardly. I'm not sure if that's accurate, but it's just a thought fwiw...

On the other hand, I also think some of that phenomena could also be something external, from other "realms" and so on (like a mixture of both internal and external things)... and what we learnt so far is that these external influences may also be attracted to us because of our "frecuency" or, in other words, our internal landscape consisting of emotions, complexes, programs, and so on...

In this way, working on ourselves also serves as a shield against those influeneces, thus, Knowledge and Being really play a role in stopping that.

It makes me think of Don Juan saying: "We can only discipline ourselves to the point where they will not touch us."

In this regard, dissociation undermines our chance to observe ourselves and work with our automatic behaviour and emotions in order to create this "shield"... and it also prevents us from truly Being in accordance with our soul's path so to say (referring to the last session...). If we are constantly dissociating we cannot really See and Feel and Know what our true path is and what we ought to do to achieve the Aim and help others. And that's what we pray for when doing the POTS after all, isn't it? We are praying to develop our vessel so that we can be connected to the DCM by being alert to our reality, to ourselves, and being able to respond to it in a convenient way.

I dint really understand this sentence from the last session:

Paying close and careful attention to what's outside, and responding to it, is what you've almost never used

Is that means outside, in our environment, people near us, things that happened near us and respond to that people,things issues on the way that we think is the best or something else ?

English is not my native language so sometimes its a little difficult to grasp , to understand some expressions.

I think what they mean here is "outside of oneself." In other words, not living in a bubble. With a bubble, there's not only a barrier between oneself and the rest of the world, but the reflective nature of the barrier means that we are only interacting with our own reflection when we live in a bubble.

Yes, and I think that most of the people who have learnt to dissociate as defense mechanism live in a bubble (including myself). I can't recall the precise words, but Peter Levine and Alice Miller seem to have mentioned some of this. For me it is like being disconnected and not engaging with what's happening around me even if I'm there apparently awake. It is also not really engaging in what I'm reading or whatever I'm doing. Like being absent in some way.

This state brings stress because I know there is something underlying but it's like I can't reach to it in order to see it properly... and I also have a difficulty to express what I'm feeling because it's pretty much like a fog to me as well... Then, I dissociate by doing whatever in that "absent" way described above. Needless to say that this doesn't allow learning to happen...

In that sense, I think that mindfulness practice and EE can be of much help when trying to be more attentive and "present" so that we can observe ourselves better and start working on those issues step by step. Writing may also be useful because we can engage in observation while writing mindfully and then we can understand many things when we read what we wrote and organize our feelings, emotions, narratives, etc...

1) Paying attention (self observation) is the key, bringing routines into awareness is a crucial step toward changing them
2) Changing the emotional brain requires super efforts, through patience and repetition
3) Having an aim, a picture of yourself how you want to be, "a constant inner-striving for self-perfection", is required to begin and sustain changing emotional patterns
4) Practice in advance through "mental rehearsal", makes it more likely to have success in staying out of old patterns in the moment
5) Watch for results and tweak these techniques based on observations

I think these are very good points as well...