Session 18 July 2015


The Living Force
Prometeo said:
I have a question. Do you think a massive session of bioenergetic breathing or exercises can burn out the microbes?

It might "burn you out" too and thereby weaken you! Which would mean that the microbes, or any infection then has a field day at your expense.

What do you mean by 'massive'? Surely sustained and disciplined would have a greater effect, over time, of making yourself 'unpalatable' to any unwanted infestation? Be aware that microbes in our gut are necessary for our health and that antibiotics is a form of 'napalming the gut'. It takes out everything. Also, there are other ways to fight infection which shouldn't be over looked.

I've had some success with Vitamin C as proposed by Dr Thomas Levy and Dr Suzanne Humphries. You can see them in action on YouTube.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
I think that the ancients noticed the correspondence between high population density, promiscuity, and development of highly infectious and devastating epidemics. They would have noticed, also, that country people in monogamous relationships were less affected by such and possibly have drawn a conclusion. That's excluding the idea that any "inspiration" came to them informing them of the issues. So, perhaps their way of dealing with it was to impose a whole lot of purity rules about everything. The food, bathing, and sex laws of the OT are not original - they were derived from the Pythagoreans/Orphics. And some of the were wrong, so it seems they were either distorted over time, or wrong conclusions were drawn from observation.

Thanks for the session - this one I found particularly revealing.

I recently read a study where scientist examined bones from ancient hunter-gatherers and where unable to find telltale signs of most bacterial and parasitical infections. Unfortunately I was unable to retrieve the article, despite an extensive search.

Population density is certainly one of the main factors, because the bugs would have very limited opportunity to spread far and wide.

The other thing is that some more modern hunter-gatherers use cannabis, which seems to greatly protect them from acquiring parasitic infections.

But I agree with Laura's assessment that it'll be unlikely to find a herbal "magic bullet" - but at least we have a variety of antimicrobial drugs to choose from. Our job is to figure out which ones, in what dose and for how long. Unfortunately there will be an element of personalization needed, both regionally and individually to tailor the treatment to the bugs.

Testing is an avenue, but expensive and fraught with many problems, so maybe the best way will be "ex juvantibus" - or the proof lies in the pudding.


Padawan Learner
This was an excellent session,thank you. While reading it many things were connecting within me. I would like to mention a recent lecture by a German fellow by the name of Harald Klatz Villa where he talks about many related topics. He goes into Chemtrails, Scalar Waves, Mass and Individual Beaming to Insert Programs, Nano Particles/Dots, Vaccines,Parasites,Fungi, Morgellons,DNA Splicing/Genetic Engineering,Toxins, Black Goo and Artificial Intelligence. How this is effecting our DNA/RNA. It is very much worth the effort to listen to this. He has some very interesting information to share. Many questions for the C's here I think...


Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
GAIA said:
Wow, wow and wow! Thank you again for another very enlightening session!! I will now begin to read the "UTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?" thread that was recommended!
Thank you again,

Same here. I had not yet gotten to this thread which is now a must read! Thanks for the session and all the useful commentary and research from the network.

Don Diego

Jedi Master
Thanks a lot again for sharing these crucial informations!
Indeed our household has noticed VERY strange dreams these last weeks, unrelated people within unrelated situations...


FOTCM Member
tohuwabohu said:
Well as I am thinking about this a thought occured to me that perhaps the virii and parasites like to play hide and seek. Maybe you managed to eliminate almost all of them but some did hide. I might be wrong but I think that the length of the treatment is important. Mostly the treatment is discontinued after one feels better. But perhaps it would help to extend it. I have no experience with liposomal vitamin C so I do not know how the body tolerates it. I have only the acidic form and when I feel ok even 2 grams is too much for me. So it's just a thought.

I think that is the key - doing a mop up operation for a time after the main battle is won. And that's what is seldom done. These protocols call for a six month run of antibiotics. Who ever heard of such a thing? But maybe that is what is needed to really wipe something like that out from the hiding places?

Prometeo said:
I have a question. Do you think a massive session of bioenergetic breathing or exercises can burn out the microbes?



The Living Force
Data said:
whitecoast said:
Approaching Infinity said:
I think this part of the session is important to highlight:

And then there's the other one where when we have a session, ideas are promoted, people start to do things or try things before they themselves have done a little of the research

I think it's very good you bring this up. One of the fundamental tenets of the Fourth Way school is that you must not do anything you don't understand.

Very important warnings, yes! The Cs said once that we as humanity are in the mess we are in because we were "leaping before looking". Now is the chance for everyone of us to LOOK BEFORE WE LEAP! Don't take anything as given or correct. Subject every theory you hear, always and anywhere, to your own rigorous study and checks! Otherwise we are just going to repeat and prolong the mess!

Way yeah... Sometimes I stop and ask myself: what do I REALLY know? I mean, what would I stake my life on? There is really so VERY little that is not either an outright belief or some form of suggestion that 'sounds' reasonable. A lot of things that can be deduced but the 'facts' themselves that these deductions are based on are also in question as well as the accuracy of my observations. I guess I am thankful that karmic and simple understandings are the building blocks that underpin what I am here to learn.


Jedi Master
Wow! great session, Thank you! ... and so many replies contributing to connect the dots. You're all so awesome!

Pierre said:
Yas said:
Then there is the iron issue and how it relates to this. As RedFox mentioned in the thread specific to these infections, they need iron to survive, and, at the same time, iron overload increases the risk of having infections... and:

RedFox said:
One wonders then if iron overload is caused by a pathogen triggering the body to absorb more than it needs (in order for the pathogen to survive/thrive).

And there is the session mentioned in the Bloodline Trails thread:

Q: So, it is the iron that the Celts need? Well, that brings
me to the next question: In all the Celtic folklore when
they talk about 'fairies,' which are obviously other
density beings very similar to our modern 'Gray alien,'
these fairy/slash aliens insist that no iron come near
them in any way. It was also said that bringing iron into
contact with someone thought to be a 'changeling' would
prove whether or not they were because if they were, they
would disappear instantly. Also, the instructions for the
building of the Temple of Solomon included restrictions on
the use of iron in either the preparation of the materials
or the putting together of the building itself, even down
to the rejection of the use of iron nails in any part.
What is the significance of this restriction on the use of
iron by these other density beings, whoever they are?

A: Bloodline trails.

Q: Are you saying that... I don't understand... not even well
enough to frame another question...

A: You will, my dear, oh will you!

Q: If it was necessary for the Aryans to have iron... okay,
maybe the iron is something that interacts...

A: What about iron as an element?

Q: Okay, let's see: Iron - derived from early Celt 'iserno,'
via Illyrian 'eisarno' from the IndoEuropean base 'eis,'
which means to 'move vigorously; strong, holy.' It is a
white, malleable, ductile, metallic chemical element that
can be readily magnetized, rusts rapidly in moist or salty
air, and is vital to plant and animal life; it is the
most common and important of all metals, and its alloys,
as steel, are extensively used. Symbol: Fe; atomic
weight:55.847; atomic number: 26; specific gravity: 7.86;
melting point: 1535 degrees Centigrade; boiling point
3,000 degrees C. The electron shells are thus: 2,14,8,2.
Iron is an element of blood, hemoglobin, and is easily
magnetized... there is some new work about iron and
magnetite in the brains of people who are psychic or have
'abduction' experiences... is it the magnetism?

A: Yes....

Q: Is it something that holds one more firmly in 3rd density,
and the elimination of it enables one to switch
densities... or...

A: Tis magnetite that acts as a conduit, and perhaps, just
perhaps, allows for transference back and forth at will?!?
And what about the legend about the alchemists? Is not
the key term there really transformation?!?
And has not
the "smoke screen" really been delivered so effectively by
all the concentration upon the substance?!? And does not
this remind one indeed of all the misguided concentration
upon substance rather than meaning that one finds so
regularly on 3rd density??

Q: I get it! So, it is the magnetite in the body, that
collects and holds the charge, and it has absolutely
nothing to do with an external substance at all! Is that

A: You are getting "warmer."

I might be way off here, but I see a connection with this new session here:

(L) So... Are you suggesting that, for example, if there are people who get infectious diseases that cause atherosclerosis, heart disease, cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, lupus, or any of these so-called autoimmune diseases, that these diseases are not genetically caused as they have been saying for the last 50 or 60 years, but that perhaps they were designed for people who carry certain genetic markers in their DNA, which then get labeled as the causative gene? Is that what we're getting at here?

A: Very close indeed. There is also the "tinkering" that can take place.

Q: (L) So in our particular reality and time and place, the so-called "Great Work", the alchemical self-transformation, must necessarily include work on diet and health issues and a vast increase in knowledge in those areas in order to cancel out the effects of transmarginal inhibition?

A: Yes

Q: (L) I don't know of any better way to put it. Anybody else?

(Pierre) There seems to be something else. The way they refer to parasites is that they are preventing not only the gaining of knowledge and growth of awareness, but also this quantum leap. Maybe if you have parasites, you can still increase your knowledge and awareness, but you'll reach a sort of glass ceiling that prevents you from graduating.

A: Yes

Q: (L) What's the tinkering there?

A: The parasites act as receivers.

Q: (Pierre) Yeah. The parasites act as receivers. So when you are full of parasites, you are more under the influence of bad waves, or waves sent by bad entities. You're more susceptible to those messages. There's a bad influence on you beyond the parasites.

This is all REALLY interesting!

I made the same connection between iron, bloodlines and parasites in the Autoimmune thread by I swear it was not plagiarism! :halo:

My mind is just swirling after reading all 7 pages of many dots connecting.

Iron fortification part of the tinkering? Iron loading disorders known to be more prevalent in people with northern European ancestry
Fluoride fortification part of the tinkering? Fluoride toxicity can make one more susceptible to electromagnetic wave frequencies. The C's direct quote (session July 5, l997... wasn't able to pull up link to full transcript. Has that one been transcribed?)
Q: (L) This couple of weeks that Ark spent in Dijon were
miserable. What was the fundamental reason for these
conditions and this misery?

A: Near ELF transmitter. Also the water supply is loaded
with fluoride.

Q: (L) Okay, I did some research on the Emerald Tablets
and discovered...

A: Is this all you want to know about this? We suppose if we
told you "Laura, a great big rock is about to fall on your
head," then you would say: "okay, now moving right along,
about the Emerald tablets..."

Q: (L) Well, that was about Dijon. He is gone from Dijon
now. Whatever it was in Gottingen, you said he would be
gone soon and not to worry. So... he is no longer near the
ELF transmitter... he is no longer drinking the water...

A: Fluoride is toxic, and deposits in fatty tissues, and lymph
system. Aside from the obvious possible negative
consequences, it can make one more susceptible to
electromagnetic wave frequencies that are designed to make
one open to mind alteration!

Q: (L) Okay. You have my undivided attention. How does
he get the fluoride out of his system?

A: Recommend daily ingestion of Goldenseal root, as well as
vinegar and garlic in moderation, along with up to an hour
per every two days of light aerobic exercise.

Q: (L) Would half an hour per day be alright?

A: One hour every other day. Light at first.

Q: (L) Well, this sounds serious. Anything else that will help?

A: This is a good start.

The combination of the iron overloading and fluoride toxicity reminds me of thyroid insufficiency due to iodine deficiency. The thyroid hormones control metabolism but also control iron metabolism. Northern Europeans, as well as other coastal dwellers must have gotten more than adequate amounts of bio-available iodine from their foods. Even black walnut hulls, used for removing parasites, is high is organic iodine. I once found an old recipe for a catsup made with the green black walnut hulls which was used as an everyday condiment. Read more on Iodine in the boards here:,13371.0.html

I would think that iodine deficiency would precede iron metabolizing disorders. Iodine was the first course of food fortification in the US, but only enough to prevent goiters. The Japanese population, it is estimated, consume on average 12mg of Iodine through their diet. The US average dietary intake is in the micro grams. My ancestry is from the Netherlands and being only a 3rd generation born American and 100% Dutch, so I'm told, I have a sneaky feeling that I need more dietary iodine than I was getting. Interesting also are the common diseases caused by excess iron, deficient iodine and fluoride toxicity. Fluoride, along with Bromide, Iodide and Chloride are all halides, and when there is insufficient Iodine, the body will pick up any of the other available halides, specifically Fl and Br both of which are considered bio-toxins.

From personal experience with Dr. Hulda Clark's parasite program, I've come to realize that part of the program that works so well is the black walnut tincture and its high iodine content. My hot flashes disappeared, my mood and energy improved all suggesting it was helping my hormones regulate. I've since added sides of sea weed such as dulse, kombu(kelp) and bladderwrack to my daily food in order to flood my thyroid with organic iodine. Also taking selenium which works synergistically with the iodine.

Here's an interesting note regarding a friend who has been suffering from severe eczema for most of her life. Eczema is suspected to be a symptom of an autoimmune disorder. After finally having an allergy test and giving up the usual suspects (wheat and other gluten poison), I encouraged her to try HC's parasite cleanse. She has three cats and they all go out of doors regularly, it couldn't hurt. So after a couple of weeks of the cleanse, she noticed a big improvement... she also started taking selenium as well. Started seeing a doc who was more on the alternative side and he explained to her that as she improves her thyroid function, which he tested to be on the hypo- side, she should notice an improvement with her immunity and they would retest her for allergens to see if they resolve!

There have been many questions regarding how to get rid of microscopic parasites and I recalled something I posted on the forum from Dr Weinberg's book:

Dr E.D. Weinberg, lists the microbial genera with strains whose growth in body fluids, cells, tissues, or intact vertebrate hosts is stimulated by excess iron:

Fungi: candida, cryptococus, histoplasma, paracoccidioides, pheumocystis, pythium, rhiopus, Trichosporon

Protozoa: Entamoeba, Leishmania, Naegleria, Plasmodium, Toxoplasma, Trichomonas, Tritrichomonas, Trypanosoma

Gr+ and acid fast bacteria: Bacillus, Clostridium, Corynebacterium, Erysipelothrix, Listeria, Mycobacterium, Staphylococcus, Strptococcus, Tropheryma

Gr- bacteria: Acinetobacter, Aeromonas, Alcaligenes, Camppylobacter, Capnocytophaga, Chlamydia, Coxiella, Ehrlichia, Enterobacter, Escherichia, Helicobacter, Klebsiella, Legionella, Moraxella, Neisseria, Pasteurella, Proteus, Pseudomonas, Salmonella, Shigella, Vibrio, Yersinia

This is not meant to promote iron anemia to prevent infections. On the contrary, healthy iron levels are necessary for optimum immunity. According to Dr Weinberg, when the body experiences an infection, one of its defenses is to withhold iron, sort of storing it out of reach of the invader... which is why ya feel so tired and lack energy when you're sick.

The fact that sufficient dietary iodine helps with immunity as well as other regulatory functions might partly be due to it's crucial role in iron management.

Which leads me to the whole electromagnetic wave susceptibility and fluoride toxicity (reference quote above) which may also be due in part to iodine deficiency. If a lack of iodine is disrupting iron metabolism, the scenario might just set certain genetic types up for iron plaques in the brain, as in extra magnetite deposits.
Recall what T.C. Lethbridge proposed about ferrous oxide and inherent quality to record frequencies? He suggested that the iron content of an area or stone dwelling may actually record strong emotions or frequencies which would replay when conditions are favorable. The liver stores iron and is also said to be the place where we store anger. And what about the brain...consider the following from Weinberg:

Skyfarmr said:
Dr. E.D. Weinberg notes in his book[The Hidden Dangers of Excess Iron]:
Cells of the anterior pituitary gland are remarkably sensitive to iron....
Most commonly attacked by iron are those cells in the anterior pituitary gland that produce growth hormone and gonadal-stimulating hormones.

Regarding the pancreas he writes:
In all disorders of iron overload, beta cells in the pancreas that function to produce insulin are assaulted by the metal [iron]. Thus diabetes mellitus is a common manifestation....Moreover, iron-induced insulin resistance often preceeds impaired secretion of the hormone....

Regarding the thyroid and parathyroid:
As in the pituitary and pancreas, iron loading occurs also in the thyroid gland. In HHC [hematochromatosis, one genetically identified condition for iron loading, but not the only one.] accumulation of iron up to 25 times above normal has been observed and hypothyroidism is more common than in the general population....
Damage to the parathyroid gland [which regulates calcium metabolism] has also been noted in a set of 210 untreated HHC patients....
the extent of parathyroid damage was apparently associated with appearance of osteoarticular lesions.

The whole magnetite in the brain thing the C's mentioned way back when is what initially launched me on a quest for learning about iron and also encouraged me to immediately stop consuming fortified foods. I also recall the phrase "heating the crucible" and looked up an anatomical cross section of the skull. The pituitary gland rests protected in the hypophyseal fossa which is located in a depression in the body of the sphenoid bone, ... where the "third eye" resides? This fossa resembles the shape of a crucible.


One of the most important functions of the hypothalamus is to link the nervous system to the endocrine system via the pituitary gland (hypophysis).

Directly below the hypothalamus is the optic chiasm.

Something else I recall is that the C's replied that implants were located in this region as well. (Sorry, couldn't locate transcript)
Along the same line was something cryptic that Fulcanelli wrote about x being replace by the s and thought it curious that what lies just above the pituitary is the optic chiasm, an optic nerve which is crossed in the shape of an X, the Greek letter Chi (Ki)....but maybe outfitted with an "S"? Could this be cryptic for indicating we've been given the predator's "lens" to look through? or maybe a veil which keeps the truth filtered? ie. implant?

Recall the quote of Weinberg's: Most commonly attacked by iron are those cells in the anterior pituitary gland

So if I'm onto something here...heating the crucible...might it mean tuning up the pituitary? our psychic center? degaussing the stored iron thereby wiping clean the program loops that replay over and over like some unwanted 8-track tape from the '70's. Maybe that's why spinning is helpful; actually, spinning is how magnetic media is degaussed(erased)!

Some interesting references to the pituitary, the philosopher's stone, the "Matriarchal Stone", or Mother Stone, etc.:,20532.msg280497.html#msg280497
A: No. Stones were once utilized to provide for all needs, as the energies transmitted connected directly with the pituitary gland to connect spiritual realities with the material realms of 3rd and 4th densities. So you see, the "stone" was viewed as Matriarchal indeed!

Oh my! Three hours past my bedtime...good night all.
Hope this doesn't sound like a bunch of rambling from a tired crone.
Will have to proof and edit if needed later.
Opportunities to visit forum are few and far between these days.

Thank you all again for the great session and replies. Very thought provoking.

Also, FYI, black walnuts will be dropping soon if you want to make your own tincture.


The Living Force
My 'go to' has always been the fast. I don't know if that is an answer to this category of parasites. But whenever I don't feel healthy or my energy level seems to be low for a long time, I will fast. (along with some sort of cleansing regimen) I never before thought 'oh I will fast because my thinking is bad or I am receiving bad messages'. But I suppose those aspects will effect how I feel and manifest in some tangible way, anyway. When I fast, there can definitely be an aspect in my consciousness that I am under attack and this is one way I fight back or resist - to pretty much reject the 3D STS function of literally eating. Call a 'time out'. Shock the machine and all its inhabitants; alter my internal biosphere.

I have a sort of comical anecdote about this. One fast lasted almost 40 days and I was wavering a bit and so one of my kids said "C'mon dad, just a few more days. You have to beat Jesus' high score!"


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
lilies said:
I don't think the 'Autoimmune-critters' are so resilient. They are only resistant because the current, dumbed-down medicine was made to have no clue about effective countermeasures.

It's worth pointing out that we evolved along side these critters, and they evolved along side us.
We have been doing battle for hundreds of thousands of years!

So to say they are not so resilient is like saying wolves are not so resilient compared to the animals they eat. Assuming this only benefits the wolves.
In our world we are exposed to so many things that stress and damage our immune system, which means the game is now stacked against us to loose.

Q: (L) So in our particular reality and time and place, the so-called "Great Work", the alchemical self-transformation, must necessarily include work on diet and health issues and a vast increase in knowledge in those areas in order to cancel out the effects of transmarginal inhibition?

A: Yes


A: We have given you the data and clues. Knowledge must be acquired via efforts so as to make proper connections and pathways in the brain.

Q: (L) Why is it so important to make connections and pathways in the brain?

A: That is, quite simply, building your receiver!!!

Q: (L) So, it is important to acquire knowledge, information, and to do it in a way that builds your brain power because that's your receiver. Your receiver receives...

(Galatea) Cosmic information.

A: Higher energies!
(L) There's another problem. There are two things I've noticed from various people on the forum. There are the ones that are so horrified by the terror of the situation, like, "I don't belong to this world! I'm not part of this! I can't eat meat! I can't eat vegetables. I have to live on air and sunshine because it's so awful and horrible that I just can't stand it!" So, there's that reaction. And then there's the other one where when we have a session, ideas are promoted, people start to do things or try things before they themselves have done a little of the research, ya know? I think there are the people who don't want to learn anything, and then there are people who want to do and achieve, but they want an easy way.

(Pierre) For proper acquisition of knowledge, you need a sufficient amount of time and effort and... suffering, basically.

A: There is no free lunch except maybe for parasites!

Q: (L) And we're their lunch as long as we think there's a free lunch!

A: Yes!

I know for myself that I use to fall into the category of rushing in with blind abandon - leaping before looking.
And when I've got glimpses of the terror of the situation falling into shutting down and wanting to just hide.

Back and forth it would go, blindly rushing in, or trying to blind myself and hide. Both actions are about not wanting to see reality - to overcome or hide from it.

'Life is religion. Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God. Those who are asleep are those of little faith in terms of their interaction with the creation. Some people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out. For those individuals, the world will cease. They will become exactly what they give to life. They will become merely a dream in the 'past.' People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the 'Future.' -- Cassiopaeans, 09-28-02

Rushing to 'fix' things is denying reality 'as it is' - which should be the foundation of action. You need to know where you are and what you are dealing with in order to make a conscious decision about the action required to navigate it.
Then when you catch a glimpse of reality 'as is' the horror fills you with emotions and emotional energy.
It is unpleasant and overwhelming and triggers us to 'escape from the feelings', and we may learn that rushing to 'fix' things is the best way to avoid ever having to feel those things.
If only we could 'find the cure' we'd never have to feel or face these things again.

Rushing in, is fight/flight from the danger of our feelings that would come up should we stop long enough to see reality as it is.
Overwhelm at the horror of the situation is the freeze response in the face of our feelings on seeing reality as it is.
We are stuck in the fight/flight/freeze response daily.

I found myself resisting these ideas about infection when they where first found, that there must be a better option than nuking things with antibiotics etc
It's the fleeing from the feelings of seeing the situation as it is (and it is horrific if you see it), that the idea of being infected brings up that I was really resisting.

Like going gluten free and then paleo before, we all had resistance to the idea - resistance to the feelings that the reality of the situation brings up.
The addiction to 'just being safe where we are' (not to mention gluten and the parasites mood and thought manipulation) - which comes from all the fight/flight/freeze from our feelings.
Giving up our comfortable illusions, giving up our automatic suffering a bit at a time.

Laura: Well now I don't read books a day because I spend so much time working with our people, with our forums, and doing research, that I spend a lot of time scanning and reading things from the internet, or reading scholarly papers and so forth, and I do most of my - I don't know, I guess it would probably amount to a book a day, the amount of reading I do, because I really do a lot of reading, but it's not in books, it's mostly online. And then when I go to bed at night I spend a half hour to an hour reading whatever my current research topic is. Usually they're very dry books that nobody else in the world reads, or very few, only scholars read them. But I read them, and I actually enjoy them!

Joe: That's the masochist in you!

Laura: Yes, it's the 'do it no matter how bad it hurts'.

Joe: It's that protestant work ethic.

Juliana: Speaking of masochism, it seems that a lot of people write to us about why is nothing easy? Why do you have to pay so much? Why isn't there any free lunch? And it seems to me that, from what you're saying, since you were little, you kept that curiosity, almost like a child has, to learn, and learn, and learn, and assimilate. And that comes, also, with a price, but you're not afraid of that, or you learned somehow that suffering leads to something that is much more valuable. And we still keep getting this reaction that "oh it's depressing" or "I just want the easy way". How did you come to realise that that wasn't your path?

Laura: Oh, that's kind of a tough one. Well I'll give you, I mean, there were many incidents that I observed in my life where people took the easy way and it always ended badly, I could see it. And the thing was, like I just mentioned, I think probably one of the most amazing gifts that I was given genetically, and for which I am enormously grateful, is my memory. And I wouldn't forget when I saw these situations. Somebody would do something, something would happen, they would take the easy way out, or "Oh it'll be fine", or "Least said, soonest mended", and then disaster would follow. And it was like, couldn't they see that coming? They took the easy way, they wanted to feel good, and disaster followed.

And you know, it really struck me very powerfully. When you go through life observing, and of course you read a lot of stories, and you read biographies, and I read lots and lots of history, and over and over again, whenever I would read a story about somebody who took the easy way, or wanted to feel good, it was always disaster! I remembered it, it just piled up in my head like a giant mountain building in my mind, that whenever people do that, it's bad! It's obviously bad. And I could see it also happening in people's lives around me. And some of those instances, some of them would be kind of personal, but I can give one little example.

I had a girl friend when I was just out of high school. And she was already married and had two or three children - she was a little bit older than I was. And I was at her house one day, and her little girl was diabetic, had become diabetic very early in her life, so it was like type I diabetes, and she was already on insulin, and she had lots of problems. She had two or three other children and her husband. And the thing was, this girl wasn't allowed to have many things because of her illness, but the family didn't see any reason that they should deny themselves what she couldn't have, just to give her moral support, or in solidarity with her.

So there was always a lot of the things she couldn't eat, cookies and candies, things like that, that she kept on top of the refrigerator. And I was there, and the little girl was crying "Mommy, I want some candy! I gotta have some candy!"

"No, no. If you have candy you'll have to increase your medication, you may have to go to the doctor, it could make you sick...."

"Oh mommy, I gotta have it..."

And then after five minutes of this or so - of course I wondered why it was all there, why doesn't the family give all that up? Give her support? Why do they put it on the refrigerator where she can see it? And finally after five minutes of crying for it, her mother says "Oh alright, but you know what's gonna happen, you're gonna have to have an extra shot, da da da..."

And she gave this child with diabetes candy, which she shouldn't have had, knowing what it was going to do to her, and setting up a pattern in her life where doing the easy thing, taking the way that was easy, feeling good, was deadly. And I remember that incident, and it kind of froze in my mind forever, because it symbolised everything and everybody that I had ever seen or known about who took the easy way. And I asked her, I said "Why did you do that?" And she says "But I love her so much, I can't say no."

It just staggered my mind that she could say "I love her so much", and what that kind of love meant. Because, as it turned out, this child died rather young.

Niall: And what's happening there? Is she not able to foresee - the mother - the consequences? She must have been told explicitly...

Laura: Well certainly she was told explicitly what would happen if she didn't do some monitoring and not let things get out of hand. It was just horrifying. It was horrifying to me. And how many people are like that? "I can't tell her no, I can't say no, I want to feel good", because more than anything else the mother wanted to feel good. She didn't want her child to say "Mommy, I don't like you, I hate you", and, you know...

Joe: Well it kind of involves a certain fairly uncommon and pretty deep understanding of human psychology as well, or it would require that for a parent in that situation to act in the right way, to know that, in a general sense, human beings will very often demand things that aren't good for them, or want things that aren't good for them. And if someone is in a position of responsibility over them, or a friend, or even someone who can give advice, kind of should give advice to a person to save them from themselves sometimes, because people don't always make the right decisions, right? So it's kind of like, just because someone says "I really, really want this, will you help me to do it?", you don't just go along and do it because they're your friend if you can see that it's bad for them. I mean it seems fairly prosaic in a way, but so many people just give in; can't say no.

Laura: They want to feel good. And it's particularly difficult in the parent-child relationship, because it's mostly about narcissism. "I want my child to make me feel good, and when the child is not making me feel good I want to do whatever it is", even to the point of harming the child's health. And I don't know if it takes really deep psychology to understand that, but it obviously was a little deeper than what she could understand.

Joe: Well at least a bit of reflection.

Laura: Yeah, but people don't reflect and they don't think, and more than anything, this is the thing. More than anything I saw that people wanted to feel good. That theme repeated over and over again in things that I was observing in other people's lives, and, you know...

"I have already said before that sacrifice is necessary," said G. "Without sacrifice nothing can be attained. But if there is anything in the world that people do not understand it is the idea of sacrifice. They think they have to sacrifice something that they have. For example, I once said that they must sacrifice 'faith,' 'tranquillity,' 'health.' The understand this literally. But then the point is that they have not got either faith, or tranquillity, or health. All these words must be taken in quotation marks. In actual fact they have to sacrifice only what they imagine they have and which in reality they do not have. They must sacrifice their fantasies. But this is difficult for them, very difficult. It is much easier to sacrifice real things.

"Another thing that people must sacrifice is their suffering. It is very difficult also to sacrifice one's suffering. A man will renounce any pleasures you like but he will not give up his suffering. Man is made in such a way that he is never so much attached to anything as he is to his suffering. And it is necessary to be free from suffering. No one who is not free from suffering, who has not sacrificed his suffering, can work. Later on a great deal must be said about suffering. Nothing can be attained without suffering but at the same time one must begin by sacrificing suffering. Now, decipher what this means."

We've spent a life time building an identity that revolves around avoiding or overcoming our feelings, of avoiding and overcoming reality with illusions in order not to feel.
Humans are creatures of habit, and breaking a habit of a lifetime brings us face to face with fear, guilt, shame, anger, regret - and above all feelings of helplessness and death.
To let go of our identification with suffering (and give up running from or hiding from reality and the emotions it evokes) feels like death.

So fwiw the most useful set of tools I've found for even beginning to approach this is posted here: Dialectic toolset - black vs white.
We need to make friends with the feelings we are running from, to see things 'as is'.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
tohuwabohu said:
Well as I am thinking about this a thought occured to me that perhaps the virii and parasites like to play hide and seek. Maybe you managed to eliminate almost all of them but some did hide. I might be wrong but I think that the length of the treatment is important. Mostly the treatment is discontinued after one feels better. But perhaps it would help to extend it. I have no experience with liposomal vitamin C so I do not know how the body tolerates it. I have only the acidic form and when I feel ok even 2 grams is too much for me. So it's just a thought.

I think that is the key - doing a mop up operation for a time after the main battle is won. And that's what is seldom done. These protocols call for a six month run of antibiotics. Who ever heard of such a thing? But maybe that is what is needed to really wipe something like that out from the hiding places?

Yeah, I think that's very important. It reminds me of Hulda Clark's approach to remain on a maintenance program once a week (also because reinfection chances are always pretty high - and when a serious health issue has already progressed reinfection seems to just pick up from before the improvements until re-killing the critters, etc. in a lot of cases). I've also experienced this with mega doses of vitamin C (without also using colloidal silver or such in this example). I've had huge improvements with increasing mega doses when I had come down with something a couple of time several years ago, and when I lowered the doses too soon because of marked improvement, it came back into full swing. Had to raise the doses again and keep it up past the point of feeling that I'm over it. FWIW.

@ Skyfarmr and RedFox: interesting posts - lots to ponder.

Just a note, if anyone wants to make their own black walnut hull tincture, it's best if at least 50% is still green.


The Force is Strong With This One
Some more connections stimulated by reading this session.

Iron. In the Great Year precessional cycle the ancients divided this vast stretch of time into ages. For example, Gold, Silver, Bronze and Iron Ages. The Iron Age, in which we are now, was regarded as the lowest age, 'a time of gross materialism and little spirituality'.

Parasitic mind control of ants.

Who was Pythagoras really? Nobel Prize winning physicist Frank Wilczek looks into the question.


FOTCM Member
Medicinal mushrooms might be worth experimenting and researching. See:

Novel Antimicrobials from Mushrooms,38053.msg590871.html#msg590871

Medicinal mushrooms have a long and rich history of use. More than 2,000 years ago, Dioscorides knew that F. officinalis fought "consumption;" the Ice Man had F. fomentarius and P. betulinus with him; and the healers — even shamans of Paleolithic peoples — knew and used mushrooms as powerful medicines to fight illnesses. In the world of the pre-modern shaman, spirits caused diseases, and medicinal compounds were administered to appease or treat them. Although science now knows that pathogenic microorganisms cause many diseases, it is not known whether Paleolithic peoples had an intuitive or specific knowledge of the nature of infection from microbes. Whether disease is caused by "spirits" or invisible microbes, both views hold in common an underlying cause of the unseen universe.17 In the future that shared vision may extend to using the same tools as a practical treatment for microbial infection.

More info at

Novel Antimicrobials from Mushrooms

I first realized how useful mushrooms could be after this show:

Might be a good alternative.
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