Session 18 May 2019

One thing to consider about ancestors is not so much how "good" they were, but did they love you and did you love them? People still learn and grow on the other side, so if you have a connection, work on it.
Thank you, Laura, for that information, I was not considering that at all. I was thinking along the lines of finding someone not only good-hearted but also worthy and venerable, so to say. By the miracle of the internet, I managed to go back to around 1100 where I found a man in Portugal named Egas Moniz de Ribadouro, o Aio (the Tutor), that I thought might fit the bill. Considering ancestors I've met and loved is a completely different perspective.

Nonetheless, the exercise was not for nothing, I learned a lot about different branches of my family and a bit more about their historical periods. There is a small heirloom booklet in my family from 1948 that traces back the genealogy to 1804. The first man in it had a small nobility title, so it was not difficult to find his parents. And many Brazilians seem to be interested in genealogy with their own family websites so I gathered information from many sources, and in a little while I was back to 1600. Then 1500. Then people were no longer born in Brazil, they came from Portugal and one from France. Then I found a website from Portugal that covered all the medieval period. It was astonishing to keep going back in time and learning little bits about these people. Every once in a while someone of some historical significance would come up and I could find an article or two about them. It was mind blowing to consider having relatives that were here when colonization first began or that fought in the Christian Reconquista of the Iberian Peninsula. Even if the lineage is wrong, it made me really think about the lives of those people.

On other branches I managed to go back to 1830 by asking my grandparents, getting a copy of another genealogy book relatives had put together and searching government databases of people that migrated from Italy. I found a book from Italy about the origin of my grandfather's surname, and the author mentioned that the family came from fishermen from the Delta of River Po and extended across Italy following the river. When I told this to my grandfather he immediately remembered some funny sayings about the river Po that he used to hear all the time in his childhood. I love my grandfather and he is fond of his Italian heritage, seeing he joyfully reminisce about his ancestors was heart warming.

On the not so fun side of things, I learned about a great grandfather who went out to buy cigarettes and never came back. A great grandmother who physically and emotionally tortured her frail and ill husband. And that on the Portuguese lineage it is very likely that at least a couple of them were slave owners.

All in all, a fascinating exercise. Thank you for leading us into it.


FOTCM Member
At some point, political media is just going to be come a twisted reality TV gameshow where sleazy hosts allows lucky studio audience members the chance to throw baseballs at a target, which releases politicians into a pool of jello. Y'know, it's good for approval ratings. It humanizes them
Indeed, it's like watching Idiocracy come to life in real time!


FOTCM Member
Actually, thats not true. Every Muslim I know (and I interact with many, regularly, that have come from all corners of the Muslim world) are vehemently against the actions of ISIS - without exception. Unlike Judaism, Islam, for all its wrongs, actually has rules of conduct in war that extends to the treatment of 'believers' and 'non-believers' alike.
Burning people and butchering innocent women the way ISIS does is strictly forbidden in Islam. When IS/ISIS first came upon the scene, it was Muslims I knew IRL that first brought to my attention IS/ISIS are operating anti-Islamically - and therefor something seriously amiss. Those Muslims that have joined are either dispossessed and disenfranchised or highly sociopathic individuals.
Just to clarify, I am not referring to the majority of muslims who follow the forms/traditions of Islam which predominate particularly in the West. I am simply referring to the literature itself, in that it can be and is be interpreted literally by some.

I don't think I misunderstood Townsend here, although I am open to that possibility. Have you read his books?

From what I understood, Muslims in secular societies desregard many aspects of the religious text in favor of common human decency and secular values. This is actually a great thing, because it renders Islam compatible with western values and allows for people to thrive in their local communities with other groups of people who either follow different religions or are atheist/agnostic.

However, by doing so - Muslims are actively ignoring various teachings of their own religious text. Those Muslims who are against ISIS etc have decided that the destructive teachings of the Quran/ahadith are no longer useful, and they have thrown them out in favor of more secular ideas. Likewise, there are those Muslims who have distorted principles of their religion (such as misrepresenting/misinterpreting "Jihad" as self-work, when in fact the literal translation is referring to violent warfare on behalf of Islam).

Whilst I am trying not be think in black-and-white terms about this, it seems to me that if people were to follow Islam by the book, then it would be a force of destruction. The social-rejects and pathological types who are drawn to ISIS and what-not do have a rational justification for their actions, because they are following the text in a literal way. With the "Law of Abrogation" (meaning that where there is contradictory teachings, the later teachings should be given more weight), promotion of violence comes later, and this provides justification for that kind of behavior OSIT.

I think a very important point should be made, here, in regards to the differences between the way Judaism allows - and encourages! - their flock to run riot treating goyim any which way they please if given half a chance, and how Muslims, in point of fact, are at least expected to abide by laws of conduct that must extend to the treatment of infidels (whether its always upheld or not is a different matter).
Muslims are required by law to at least show some compassion to non-believers and captives of war. Not only are Jews NOT required to do so, it would seem they are actually encouraged to defile and mistreat goyim.

I think this notable difference makes for quite a vast chasm between Judaism and Islam.
These are fair points, and from what I have read so far it appears that orthodox judaism is indeed more extreme in that regard. However, Townsend cites a few verses in the hadiths/Quran which explicitly state that non-believers, and even "people of the book" (Jews & Christians) can be slaughtered if they do not convert to Islam. These verses come later, which means that they are given more weight than previous contradictory verses.

Aside from slaughter, there is also promotion of sex with pre-pubescent girls, slavery, bodily mutilation (head, hands and feet), stoning, etc.

One can argue that Western Muslims in the 21st century rightly find these practices abhorrent, but I think that is because they have adopted western customs and values, and over time, cut ties with those aspects of the teaching. But when we look at some countries in the middle East, these things are still practiced. Townsend points out it is no coincidence that these countries are also devout Muslims (albeit with a different, more literal interpretation).

Ultimately, I think it is important to factor in that the large majority of Muslims do NOT promote these practices, and rightly see that they should be discarded. So my comment was not directed at Muslims per se. Rather, it is directed at the text... which upon literal interpretation, is promoting psychopathic and violent behavior IMO.


FOTCM Member
Aside from slaughter, there is also promotion of sex with pre-pubescent girls, slavery, bodily mutilation (head, hands and feet), stoning, etc.
The above reminded me of a short video (in French) that I've recently watched about the taboo of Arab-muslim slave trade (of which nobody talks about, whether at school or in the media) and which was quite enlightening: "When we hear about slavery at school, on TV or in political speeches, we only ever hear about the slave trade - ie, triangular trade - organized by evil Westerners. We never hear about another slave trade, far more ancient that one, far more lasting, far more important, violent and deadly: the Arab-muslim slave trade. Why such a taboo, and what does it mean?"
The author of the video draws his arguments from a book written by Senegalese writer Tidiane N’Diaye: Le Génocide voilé (The veiled genocide – AFAIK, only available in French, unfortunately). That book is mentioned in another thread.

“The Arabs have raided sub-Saharan Africa for thirteen centuries without interruption. Most of the men they deported have disappeared, due to their inhuman treatments. This painful page of the history of Black people does not seem to have been completely ended. The beginning of this treatment of the Blacks began when the Arab Emir and general Abdallah ben Saïd, imposed upon the Sudanese a “Bakht” (an agreement) in 652, forcing them to furnish hundreds of slaves annually. Most of them were men who were taken from the people of Darfur. That became the point of departure for an enormous human operation that continued officially until early in the 20th century.”

According to the estimations, 17 million Black people were enslaved by the Arab-muslims (not counting those who were massacred) + 3 million White people were abducted by the Barbary pirates and sold into slavery.
The author of the video aptly points out that the point is certainly not to "put into perspective" or mitigate the evilness of the triangular trade led by the Whites on the pretext that the Arabs did much worse. The point is to restore the balance between a historical event which Westerners are still being chastised for today and for which they should eternally atone, and another event which has been almost completely erased from the pages of History.
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FOTCM Member
The above reminded me of a short video (in French) that I've recently watched about the taboo of Arab-muslim slave trade (of which nobody talks about, whether at school or in the media) and which was quite enlightening: "When we hear about slavery at school, on TV or in political speeches, we only ever hear about the slave trade - ie, triangular trade - organized by evil Westerners. We never hear about another slave trade, far more ancient that one, far more lasting, far more important, violent and deadly: the Arab-muslim slave trade. Why such a taboo, and what does it mean?"
Thanks so much @Adaryn for sharing that video. It was, as you said, quite enlightening.


FOTCM Member
C'est drôle, dans ton rêve, les deux serpents sur ta jambe, semblent ressembler au caducée d'Hermès! Le venin des serpents pourrait représenter la connaissance qui vient de la terre.
Kisito, you have been here long enough to know that this is an English speaking forum and that we ask that if you do not speak or write English well enough to do so here that you, at least, use an online translator such as deepl to translate into English what you have written.

The last time this was mentioned to you, you used the excuse that you were answering a certain individual and you should not have to translate. That is no excuse! What you are doing is very internally considerate and externally inconsiderate. You expect everyone else to translate what you have written so that they can understand it.

It is for you to translate into English what you have written so that others who do not speak you language can read it. That is external consideration and something that should not take you that long to do.


Kisito, vous êtes ici depuis assez longtemps pour savoir qu'il s'agit d'un forum anglophone et que nous vous demandons, si vous ne parlez pas ou n'écrivez pas assez bien l'anglais pour le faire ici, d'utiliser au moins un traducteur en ligne tel que deepl pour traduire en anglais ce que vous avez écrit.

La dernière fois qu'on vous en a parlé, vous avez utilisé l'excuse que vous répondiez à une certaine personne et que vous ne devriez pas avoir à traduire. Ce n'est pas une excuse ! Ce que vous faites est très prévenant à l'interne et inconsidéré à l'externe. Vous vous attendez à ce que tous les autres traduisent ce que vous avez écrit pour qu'ils puissent le comprendre.

C'est à vous de traduire en anglais ce que vous avez écrit afin que d'autres personnes qui ne parlent pas votre langue puissent le lire. C'est une considération externe et cela ne devrait pas vous prendre trop de temps.

Traduit avec


The Living Force
FOTCM Member


Jedi Council Member
A: Most important to remember the "sowing" part in the context of this discussion.


A: It was the plan all along. Beware! It is coming to fruition
'fruition' is an interesting backreference to sow/reap. I wonder what they will reap if the are sowing destruction [of Christianity].

Also very interesting, thanks:
Session 13 December 2014 said:
A: The veil can only be penetrated by sowing conceptual seeds which include notable conflicts of information. Such seeds falling on the fertile ground of a pure desire for truth will sprout and drive the actions that lead to penetrating the veil. Most people "can't stand the truth."
In a world of lies the truth can be conflicting information, and conflicts of information is were most people's thinking stops working properly. They can't handle the branching.

Wandering Star

Jedi Master
Well, take it for what its worth, but here is how I see it:

When initially delving into the C's material and the Wave books, I think that many of us felt this way. I know that I certainly did. In many ways, it is a natural response. When you start reading about cataclysms, mass-extinction, and all of these other really 'bad' things, it can be quite scary. After all, to a large extent it seems like human beings are wired avoid suffering and have an innate fear of death, and so considering that as an imminent possibility naturally evokes all of these kinds of negative emotional responses, and also a sense of urgency.

And then as a solution to all of that scary stuff, we read about the possibility of graduating to 4th density. This is an attractive solution, because it appeals to the part of us that ultimately wants to be "saved" from the suffering that is inherent in this reality. Just look at any conventional religious tradition, and you will find promises of graduating to some higher-realm (e.g heaven in Christianity). It seems that people find solace in the idea of graduating to some place better after battling through this life perhaps because it can provide them with some meaning and purpose, and a reason to actually do good things and be good to others. After all, if there was no "heaven", then what would be the point?

Furthermore, the promise of being "saved" by some external entity or higher power absolves one of individual responsibility. It gives people the false illusion that, as long as they follow a specific set of rules, then they will progress to a better place. This kind of promise appeals to people, and I think it is (at least contributing) as an underlying driving force behind adherence to any religious doctrine. I think in a very simplified way, people follow the rules and behave in a certain way not because they have internalized a set of values, but because they believe that it will bring them salvation. At its core, it is fundamentally based on service to self IMO.

So, although the C's transmission provides a completely unconventional and "alternative" view on things... It can be interpreted and acted on in ways that are very similar to any other kind of conventional religious teaching. If you replace the word "heaven" with "4th density", and you replace "praying at church" with "participating on the forum and reading the books", then you can produce a framework which is almost identical with other religion. For me, it started out something like this:

So, can you see how the underlying dynamic resembles a typical religious mindset? We must therefore be cautious not to place the C's on some theological pedestal in replacement of "God".

This human tendency is something that we all need to be aware of when studying the C's material. Why?

Because this is essentially the opposite of what the C's have taught us. In stark contrast, we will not be "saved" by any external authority. There will be no "salvation" and there are no "rules" to follow to graduate to 4th density. There is only lessons, and they can be can learned if one makes the conscious choice to endeavor on this journey through honestly seeking knowledge of objective reality, despite it being unpleasant and often painful, and then learning applying that knowledge in the way that we live our lives in service to others. In that sense, it is up to us as individuals to take full responsibility. That is, of course, if someone "resonates" with the concept of service-to-others.

Rather than acting a certain way just because some perceived authority figure (like the forum) tells us that is what we should be doing, it would serve us well to attempt to develop an inner guidance system which is based on higher values- truth, serving others, "loving" in the real sense of the word etc. To make the choices which are aligned with those values, not because you will gain anything from that, but simply because you have an inner recognition that it is the right thing to do.

Here is a scenario that I like to consider: that the C's predictions and teachings about 4D were completely false. I don't think they are, but hypothetically lets say that it was all nonsense. Would you still have a drive to seek truth in every aspect of reality? Would you still strive to be the best person you could be to support and be good to those around you? These are questions we honestly need to ask ourselves.

The idea of going up to 4D is all very magical and intriguing, but none of us can be certain that it even exists. The discussions about 4D here are purely theoretical, and they will remain that way for the forseeable future (from what I can see). The most important work done here, is dealing with what we have in the here and now. Learning how to become better, more honest human beings. Learning how to serve others to the best of our ability. Learning about the true nature of this reality, and how to make the best possible choices based on that information.

So, a long story short - I think that your fears are fairly common and are completely understandable. However, through gaining knowledge, learning as much as you can, reading the various discussions here on the forum, participating/networking on the forum with others, and having a sincere drive to see the truth, you will begin value the importance of working with what you currently have, instead of worrying about what might come in the future.

One quote from the C's which comes to mind here is [I can't find it to quote it, so this is paraphrasing and someone can correct me if I quoted it wrong]:

"Its not where you are, but WHO you are and what you see!"
This is one of the most inspired comments I've read in this forum and I've mentioned it in this thread, because I think it links to the "spirit" of the session.

Great Keyhole.:-)


Jedi Council Member
[QUOTE = "goyacobol, post: 804338, membre: 8472"]
Comme la plupart d'entre nous ne parlent pas français, j'ai utilisé un traducteur pour voir votre commentaire. Pensée intéressante.
Thank you, it's strange that I thought I had put the text in English twice in a row! I would think to be more careful...
More importantly, I think, why that specific hat?

By all accounts there is no way to explain this event as the result of faulty memory or something similar.

So, why that specific hat? Maybe it's because its presence cannot be explained by any means except as something truly out of the ordinary.
It makes sense in light of it not being any cap, but Ark's favorite. If it were any ordinary cap, it would be easier for the mind to find excuses for there being two of them. But which is cause and which is consequence? Both ways seem reasonable, it was supposed to be a marker so it had to be an important object, or it had to be an important object (because of some "law") so it would naturally be a marker. And maybe it doesn't have to be either/or, but both/and.


FOTCM Member
I suppose that's not much different than before, except what I'm wondering is if this "reality structure" is not just something mental or emotional. IOW, maybe it's not just a set of programs or ideas about the world, not just thoughts or feelings, but something far more fundamental in terms of consciousness. It's like our interface with reality. [...]

For those of us who delve deeply into exploring reality, truth, falsehoods, and so on, new things open up. As that happens, we realize more and more than uncertainty is a huge part of the game. We always want things to be this way, or that. We want The Answer. As our reality structure grows, it becomes increasingly clear how little we know because there are so many new possibilities. Depending on the question asked, there are many answers.
I could be wrong, but maybe this is what Jordan Peterson is saying as well in his book 12 Rules for Life? I thought the next bit, just like your post Scottie, was very pertinent:
What would your life look like, if it were better? What would Life Itself look like? What does "better" even mean? You don't know. And it doesn't matter that you don't know, exactly, right away, because you will start to perceive what remained hidden from you by your presuppositions and preconceptions - by the previous mechanisms of your vision. You will begin to learn.
This will only work, however, if you genuinely want your life to improve. You can't fool your implicit perceptual structures. Not even a bit. They aim where you point them. To retool, to take stock, to aim somewhere better, you have to think it through, bottom to top. You have to scour your psyche. You have to clean the damned thing up. And you must be cautious, because making your life better means adopting a lot of responsibility, and that takes more effort and care than living stupidly in pain and remaining arrogant, deceitful and resentful.
What if it was the case that the world revealed whatever goodness it contains in precise proportion to your desire for the best? What if the more your conception of the best has been elevated, expanded and rendered sophisticated the more possibility and benefit you could perceive? This doesn't mean that you can have what you want merely by wishing it, or that everything is interpretation, or that there is no reality. The world is still there, with its structures and limits. As you move along with it, it cooperates or objects. But you can dance with it, if your aim is to dance - and maybe you can even lead, if you have enough skill and enough grace. This is not theology. It's not mysticism. It's empirical knowledge. There is nothing magical here - or nothing more than the already-present magic of consciousness. We only see what we aim at. The rest of the world and that's most of it) is hidden. If we start aiming at something different - something like "I want my life to be better" - our minds will start presenting us with new information, derived from the previously hidden world, to aid us in that pursuit. Then we put that information to use and move, and act, and observe, and improve. And, after doing so, after improving, we might pursue something different, or higher - something like, "I want whatever might be better than just my life being better." And then we enter a more elevated and more complete reality.


The Living Force
Thank you for such a wonderful, magical, beautifully put session AND for such great comments in response (thus far - I have only read to the third page!)

The thought: "So, this is what's been happening while I have been busy meetinf deadlines?" crossed my mind :lol:

As a fan of lists also, @Gaby, Laura's list was also a welcome and well received addition to this session. And it is an in-depth list that's more moving and meaningful than I can express in words here. Thank you! :thump:

And similarly in connection with what you mentioned here, considering the growing mass collective chaos and gradually increasing nonlinear earth changes, an internal sense of joy, gratitude, balance, calm and centredness exists that is indescribable and leaves me in awe and honour at the wonders of True Creation, with its blessings and gifts... and lessons and adventures! :-D

As I'm still reeling from and processing everything I've read so far, there's little to say in this one reply other than: thank you, each and every one :) :flowers:

There are parts that stood out that are worth revisiting and for which there's very much a plan, or plans, to share and network further on, and still 23 pages to go to catch up :lol:

I found the following particularly well stated, @itellsya, among many other well stated points, questions, answers and comments:

itellsya said:
He notes that, early on, before time took its toll, common worship was what made a family, not blood. It was through the shared reverence for their ancestors that an adopted son or a daughter-in-law became part of the family. For the family, the object of their reverence was their ancestors and this was centered around a hearth. The practise of worship involved daily prayers and meals but also festivals, and this was often accompanied with food and song.

I thought the fact that, here on the forum, we are bound by a common understanding rather than by blood was quite poignant, considering how many of our members are dotted all over the planet. Our actions and aims are shared, that is what is important and provides us with strength. And, according to The Ancient City, this is something we share with those peoples that went before us.

I think it's also interesting in light of the comments in the session regarding the "normal life", because, in the ancient world, when joining a new family the member made a conscious decision to leave their old life/practises behind them. And this is another thing we share with the ancients too; in our "normal life" we may have eaten or behaved a particular way but through our work together on the forum we gain new insights into what we can do better, and in the process we leave those detrimental aspects of our "normal life", our old way of being, behind.
A lovely end to what has been a harmonious and productive or engaging day.
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