Session 20 August 2011

[SolarMother]

So to change the topic slightly, I had a thought about this last night and it seemed to me that the above has implications as to why those who practice the dark arts involve the drinking of human blood etc. in their rituals( i.e Skull & Bones?). If eating animal flesh & blood is more potent than veggies - consider how much stronger (although extremely taboo and repugnant to "civilized" society) consuming human flesh & blood would be.

Also in primitive societies it was sometimes the practice of a warrior to eat the organs of a vanquished foe - thereby supposedly acquiring the strength of the defeated enemy. I see where this comes from now.

I think that the original ancient knowledge was that animal blood and flesh would "increase strength" or simply that it is the most natural food fitted for man or something like that. And that later the pathological types changed it to eating humans as being more powerful. I think it's psychologically (and physically) unnatural for humans to eat one another, but if you have a psychopath with a different brain, they won't feel the resistance we would feel, because they simply can't and won't. So they change whatever knowledge comes to their paths and fold it in such a way that would be "normal" and more ''interesting'' to them. But I do think that normal people could be influenced and manipulated with so bad, that they could follow the same path. I wonder what eating human flesh and blood would do to a human body, it probably would turn people into monsters and maybe even activate the wrong genes (Neanderthal genes?), but these are just some thoughts, I don't know.Talking about animal blood, I'm thinking about trying some blood sausages...

The movie, Apocalypto (Mel Gibson) showed exactly what happens to "people" that sacrifice and eat the hearts of captured tribal men (who were painted blue in the ritual, to show they would be sacrificed.) Supposedly, this story was based on Mayan historic accuracy, and though deeply disturbing, is worth seeing. It was interesting to see this perspective on the Mayan culture being shown to be psychopathic cannibals. Somewhere, if I am not mistaken, the C's said that 4DSTS had it's roots in South America?

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Now yes I am confused, because I had a high feeling on the forum and to be considered as a '-shite-', just because I do not say in the right way. And all the people who know me well never say that I am hypocritical...

Perhaps this quote, from Gurdjieff's Paris meetings will shock you, as well?

S: I am very often deceived in my opinion of others. That is bad for me. I give people credit for qualities they do not possess; and as for the people who do possess them, I see it only later when I know them better. I don't know how to detect hypocrisy and I'm always seeing it too late. I would like to have a means of judging people and recognising who can be useful to me and who is useless.

Gurdjieff: You cannot, you must first prepare yourself to see reality. While waiting, play a role exteriorly. Interiorly, recognize your nonentityness. You don't know anything. ... At present, everyone is like you: nothing, zero. Whether he be a workman, or a senator, he is merde like you. Get to work at not being a nonentity; work, so that in a day, a month, or a year you will not be a nonentity. ...

Education makes a mask. When you see people, you believe in this mask. After a while the mask falls and you see that they are the same merde as yourself. No matter whom you see, he represents a mask. If you look at him longer, with impartiality and attention, you see that he is not always able to keep his mask; at the same moment, the merde will show through. It is the same which is in you. He is nothing, as you are nothing, even if he is a colonel, senator or millionaire. it's only the combinations of life that are there. His grandfather was like that, his father was like this, and he profits from it. But he himself represents only nothingness.

Only he is not a nothing who has understood his nothingness and has worked on himself to change it. That man is another quality of merde: with 'roses'. It is still merde but it has not the same odour.

 

[François]

So to change the topic slightly, I had a thought about this last night and it seemed to me that the above has implications as to why those who practice the dark arts involve the drinking of human blood etc. in their rituals( i.e Skull & Bones?). If eating animal flesh & blood is more potent than veggies - consider how much stronger (although extremely taboo and repugnant to "civilized" society) consuming human flesh & blood would be.

Also in primitive societies it was sometimes the practice of a warrior to eat the organs of a vanquished foe - thereby supposedly acquiring the strength of the defeated enemy. I see where this comes from now.

I think that the original ancient knowledge was that animal blood and flesh would "increase strength" or simply that it is the most natural food fitted for man or something like that. And that later the pathological types changed it to eating humans as being more powerful. I think it's psychologically (and physically) unnatural for humans to eat one another, but if you have a psychopath with a different brain, they won't feel the resistance we would feel, because they simply can't and won't. So they change whatever knowledge comes to their paths and fold it in such a way that would be "normal" and more ''interesting'' to them. But I do think that normal people could be influenced and manipulated with so bad, that they could follow the same path. I wonder what eating human flesh and blood would do to a human body, it probably would turn people into monsters and maybe even activate the wrong genes (Neanderthal genes?), but these are just some thoughts, I don't know.Talking about animal blood, I'm thinking about trying some blood sausages...

The movie, Apocalypto (Mel Gibson) showed exactly what happens to "people" that sacrifice and eat the hearts of captured tribal men (who were painted blue in the ritual, to show they would be sacrificed.) Supposedly, this story was based on Mayan historic accuracy, and though deeply disturbing, is worth seeing. It was interesting to see this perspective on the Mayan culture being shown to be psychopathic cannibals. Somewhere, if I am not mistaken, the C's said that 4DSTS had it's roots in South America?

I remember I read recently this on Mayans, and I get the reference :

Q: (BP) Were the Mayans an STS civilization?
A: No.
Q: (BP) Why did they engage in human sacrifice and so forth?
A: They did not.
Q: (BP) They did not?! (L) I think that's an archaeological fallacy. (TM) Yes. (BP) Isn't that fascinating! (TM) I am going to be looking into that in the next
couple of months. (L) You ain't heard nothin' yet! (TM) Wasn't there another group... the Toltecs, were they the ones who engaged in human sacrifice?
A: At some point.

 

[osher]

I've been taking molecularly distilled fish oil for a month now for my Omega 3's and the pain in my joints, especially the constant pain in my shoulders where I have mild arthritis is gone. The true test is when I wake up in the morning. Ever since taking the fish oil the pain has gone away. I used to take flax oil but still had the pain in my joints. Not sure if other factors are involved to help the constant pain go away (such as eating fatty meats, the diet, mineral supplements, etc). Maybe the flax oil would have worked just as well, don't really know but I'm sticking with the fish oil since I've been feeling a lot better since taking it.

I've been taking flax oil, got out of it like 2 weeks ago and from few days my joints started to crunch more and more. And remedies like viper venom ointment doesn't work this time at all. It was ok with flax oil, but i'm sure there's much more to that. Especially WHEAT - i eliminated it a year ago and recently all other grains. Year ago also had accupuncture - i'm sure u know it works miraculously if done properly, but from previous experiences - the pains (not only joints) always came back. But it didn't this time - a year almost free of pain - first year in since i remember. Every ingredient that use of or lack of in diet causes inflammation is important, and that can be many things, as we learn here. So thanks for reminding about importance of fish/flax oil - i just recently wanted to switch to fish oil from flax SEEDS oil.

 

[SolarMother]

Francois

I remember I read recently this on Mayans, and I get the reference :



Quote from: Session February 25, 1995
Q: (BP) Were the Mayans an STS civilization?
A: No.
Q: (BP) Why did they engage in human sacrifice and so forth?
A: They did not.
Q: (BP) They did not?! (L) I think that's an archaeological fallacy. (TM) Yes. (BP) Isn't that fascinating! (TM) I am going to be looking into that in the next
couple of months. (L) You ain't heard nothin' yet! (TM) Wasn't there another group... the Toltecs, were they the ones who engaged in human sacrifice?
A: At some point.

As long as this was not a "Frank corrupted" session, it could have been an older civilazation, the Toltecs.--that makes more sense.
The session below, 10, December 1994, is not the one I had in mind (about South America) but it does say something about the Mayans, but nothing about them eating people, but they themselves being eaten!

Q: (L) What happened to the Mayans?

A: Taken by Lizard beings to cosmos in 4 D. "Lizzieland."

Q: (L) What did they do with them there?

A: Many possibilities.

Q: (L) Do any of those possibilities include having them for dinner? Sorry about that, I couldn't help myself. (J) "Mayan Helper." And I helped!

A: Maybe.

 

[Pierre]

Actually, one of the things that are wrong with the French is that very often, they only see the good things!

Exactly!

We, French people are very much chauvinistic, that is we are very identified with our own country. We have much difficulties differentiating France, the country, the culture, and who we are as individuals.

Education plays a major role in shaping our chauvinism. At 6 we start learning French history and French geography, we also deeply study the French language, its orthography, grammar, conjugation. At an early age we also study French literature, then French philosophy and it goes on for years and years.

Later (high school and college), the French education address international topics but it keeps dedicating most the class time to France related topics.

The second cause was mentioned somewhere by Ailen: The whole world believes that France is such a great country: its exemplary revolution, its thinkers, its artists, its monuments, its capital, its wine, its gastronomy, its landscape, its fashion,... are all highly regarded.

The problem is that 1/ those assessments are not always objective (see the true History of the Revolution for example) 2/ those assessments are positive features about the country that don't reveal anything about its citizens (for example France having nice landscapes doesn't say anything about the pros and cons of its citizens).

In end, Frenchs are intensively conditioned towards chauvinism/identification by their education and this conditioning is reinforced by overseas opinions that keep repeating how great France is. When French and overseas sources repeat the same things it's difficult to get free from one's chauvinism!

So, yes, most French are identified to their countries. I'm not unlike most French people in this regard. But, maybe a first step is to try to see this identification, start too see how we take general remarks as personal, start to see how comment about France modifies our emotional state. Start to contemplate how and why the country and the individual are totally different things. Start to look for the truth about French mentality, about French History...

 

[Laura]

On the topic of education, this is a great (and funny) little video about what is wrong with modern education. The guy is talking about education in the U.S. but everything he is saying applies to France in spades. Enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

 

[Lucius]

very good animation there is one more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3oIiH7BLmg&feature=relmfu
at 05:50 about school system

 

[François]

For answering your question, Ailén :

I understand.

I was sincere.

I am not hypocritical.

This is your forum, your data. Feel free to exclude me.

I am sincerely sad about all that, but this life.

I think you don't realize how many contradictions there are in your posts in this thread. On one, you agree, on the next one you scream, on the next one you are obnoxious, etc. So, there can't be one "I" that is sincere, not hypocritical, etc.

The point is, that French or not French, your posts continue to be noise and draining, and even if you weren't French, these things would have been pointed out to you here. This is not about criticicing the French. It is about studying human beings. It just so happens that France was one of the topics, but it could have been any other country.

You are angry because we are mostly discussing what is wrong with the French culture. But everybody knows the good things!! Actually, one of the things that are wrong with the French is that very often, they only see the good things! So I see no point in talking about them in the context of this discussion. But you seem unable to understand the goal of it all. We have tried to share our observations, but you seem to be more interested in what YOU (which You?) think. So, why are you here, anyway?

I am here because I thought C's material I discovered on the Net 10 years ago is valuable (that I said as newbie)

(this is why I today posted a comment to SolarMother on Mayans because I think it was interesting to do it...)

- my intention was not to irritate anyone.

- the diect answers to me :
- some ones contain deep meanings and of quality, so to say, and thanks for that
- some ones hurt me deeply (not shock) and install a deep sadness

- the lesson for me :
- I was not able to present me correctly, and the today image depicting me is not mine
- again some comments/answers about hurt me deeply, and sadness is the only word coming to me...

I will ask my friends their points of view...

 

[Beau]

- the lesson for me :
- I was not able to present me correctly, and the today image depicting me is not mine

Actually, I would say the opposite is true: You presented yourself exactly as you are. The fact that you are unhappy with how your presentation was received doesn't change that.

 

[François]

You presented yourself exactly as you are.

Could you be more explicit please.

 

[Cosmos]

On the topic of education, this is a great (and funny) little video about what is wrong with modern education. The guy is talking about education in the U.S. but everything he is saying applies to France in spades. Enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

great video . the most depressingly (and so true part) is the study that is presented where kidergarten kids were tested on their capacity of divergent thinking and they were brilliant and the more the human gets "educated" in our society the lower the capacity of divergent thinking.

It almost seems that todays education systems are disigned to make people dumb and ignorant and to lower their capacity of thinking outside of the box and to make them believing lies as much as possible !

 

[Approaching Infinity]

- my intention was not to irritate anyone.

Except in rare cases, that is no one's intention here. But this forum is primarily a 'school'. We interact, sometimes we irritate others or are irritated. That's beside the point. The point is what we learn about ourselves in the process. You mention you came here because you liked the C's. Well, this forum is also primarily based on Gurdjieff's thoughts and methods: discovering the truth about ourselves. Are you familiar with Gurdjieff's work?

- some ones hurt me deeply (not shock) and install a deep sadness

That IS a shock, in Gurdjieff's language. It is a shock to your own image of yourself and your self-importance. The point is to learn HOW we react, then WHY we react. If you were a whole, complete, non-contradictory being, you would not be hurt, offended, or saddened by any of the 'direct responses' you've received. The fact that you were means you've got some learning to do when it comes to learning to be objective with yourself. That's what the Work is all about.

- the lesson for me :
- I was not able to present me correctly, and the today image depicting me is not mine

This forum isn't about impression management and giving the right impression. It's about interacting sincerely (to the extent which we are able to do so), receiving feedback, and learning about ourselves from that feedback. The fact that things haven't so far turned out the way you 'planned' just goes to show there is a disconnect between who you are and who you think you are. It's up to you whether you want to see yourself objectively. As Gurdjieff said in that answer I quoted, the first step is realizing how little you know, how mechanical you are, how ineffectual you are, how transparent you are to those who have been doing this for a while. Either that, or continue living the lie that has been instilled in you since you were a child.

Again:

You cannot, you must first prepare yourself to see reality. While waiting, play a role exteriorly. Interiorly, recognize your nonentityness. You don't know anything. ... At present, everyone is like you: nothing, zero. Whether he be a workman, or a senator, he is merde like you. Get to work at not being a nonentity; work, so that in a day, a month, or a year you will not be a nonentity. ...

Education makes a mask. When you see people, you believe in this mask. After a while the mask falls and you see that they are the same merde as yourself. No matter whom you see, he represents a mask. If you look at him longer, with impartiality and attention, you see that he is not always able to keep his mask; at the same moment, the merde will show through. It is the same which is in you. He is nothing, as you are nothing, even if he is a colonel, senator or millionaire. it's only the combinations of life that are there. His grandfather was like that, his father was like this, and he profits from it. But he himself represents only nothingness.

Only he is not a nothing who has understood his nothingness and has worked on himself to change it. That man is another quality of merde: with 'roses'. It is still merde but it has not the same odour.

- again some comments/answers about hurt me deeply, and sadness is the only word coming to me...

Would you rather react? Or know WHY you react?

 

[anart]

- some ones hurt me deeply (not shock) and install a deep sadness

That's what shocks do Francois, they hurt - deeply. This is what a shock IS.

He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Agamemnon, Aeschylus

 

[Laura]

- some ones hurt me deeply (not shock) and install a deep sadness

That's what shocks do Francois, they hurt - deeply. This is what a shock IS.

He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Agamemnon, Aeschylus

Notice that Anart quoted my signature line. Do you think I chose it for no reason?

The entire process of the Cassiopaean Experiment has been one long series of shocks for ME that have transformed me. There were sessions and experiences throughout the whole process that hurt me deeply - so deeply, indeed, sometimes I felt that I couldn't stand the pain.

But it changed my life and opened my eyes. I wouldn't go back to that state of ignorance for anything in the world.