Session 22 February 2010

Thank-you Shijing, and to all who have posted on this thread, I have learned allot. Specially the article that was added as a post on the Balance between Being and Knowledge. I was under the impression that knowledge would increase your being, this gives me some concrete steps I can take to improve myself, and guage my development either way now... thank-you
Sincerely,
Harold
 
go2 said:
First I will ask the obvious question. How would walking require less brain coordination than crawling? There is indeed a correlation between not crawling and dyslexia. This correlation can’t be causation, as walking requires more motor skill and brain coordination than crawling.

Hi go2,

Crawling does require more brain coordination in a certain way: when done properly, there are simultaneous movements made by "unmatching" body parts that are on the opposite sides of the body's symmetry. Right arm moves together with left leg, and left arm with right leg, that's sometimes called "cross crawl". That's the kind of coordination that improves brain functioning by stimulating myelination in corpus callosum or cerebellum activity. A similar effect is achieved by other activities that require different or opposite movements being made by right and left arms/hands, like rubbing the belly with one hand and taping your head with another.

I would think that the connection between not crawling naturally and dyslexia is mostly correlational, but there is a causative element as well: e.g., it has been noted that a bilaterally coordinated fine motor activity, such as playing piano, can help with dyslexia, speech or spelling issues.
 
Hildegarda said:
Crawling does require more brain coordination in a certain way: when done properly, there are simultaneous movements made by "unmatching" body parts that are on the opposite sides of the body's symmetry.

Hi Hildegarda,

When I walk, there are simultaneous movements of my leg and arm on the opposite sides of the body, plus all the delicate balancing activity to keep the body upright.

Edit: I just got down on all fours and crawled, you could be right. :D
 
chachazoom said:
autistic psychopathy is the original name. I think intelligence levels/personality shape it. I have known one that cannot lie but after years of observation have come to realize that she is the most deceptive person I know. Her whole life is a lie, so enormous you cannot see it. And most every interaction is manipulative. People see her as a saint. I have also known some that are the biggest liars I've ever experienced. I pondered on this deeply. Observed carefully for years. What is consistant is their egocentric thought process. In an autistics world they are the only one that exists in it in a realistic way. That's why they cannot perceive lying the same as non autistics. Lying by definition requires the ability to understand anothers perspective, perception and purposefully to deceive it. In my sil's case she is highly intelligent and I believe she knows that something is very different. There's more to this but I believe she exists to others only through the image of herself she has constructed. She understands much through her intellect and has learned through trial and error how to interact "normal"...
While you made some very good observations earlier about the possible effects of HFAs on the people around them, which I was able to validate to some degree last night talking to the person I live with, I am not sure what you have in mind when you say "that's why they cannot perceive lying the same as non autistics," and I don't see what Hans Asperger's original term for what he observed, "autistic psychopathy," has to do with anything beyond the implication that the particular children he studied may have had impaired empathy, or at least appeared that way to him. Do you understand what a broad generalization you are making based (apparently) upon your family experiences? Is it possible that something else might be running in the family besides (or in addition to) autism?

When someone is obsessive about telling the truth, that is not psychopathy. I am quite familiar with this issue because I have been dealing with it personally all my life. I have only recently (within the last decade) been learning to hold back information when it is socially appropriate to do so. I won't use an alias in this forum because I am not comfortable with doing so. I have also had direct dealings with psychopaths and their "truth is what I believe it to be" form of thinking. These are not the same thing and Asperger didn't claim that they were, that I know of.

Ironically, I think people on the autistic spectrum experience many difficulties because of the lack of empathy shown by so many "normal" people.
 
Hildegarda said:
Laura said:
Unbeknownst to myself, my dedicated effort in breast feeding all three of my children infected them to varying degrees with candida with my latest baby getting the highest doses of all of them.

Rx, I have to say that I was rendered almost speechless by your statement that you knew your children were getting and staying infected with candida from your milk and yet you continued, long past the time when they had teeth, to give this to them, even to the extent of destroying their teeth. In spite of the evidence before your eyes, you still think that your milk is better for them?

As I remember the way it works with candida in babies, it's not really that the mother infects the child with candida through breastfeeding.

Yes, I know that. The point is what Rx believed about it. And for all we know, the accepted wisdom about candida that we are told be the same medical profession that doesn't know a thing about how food affects us, makes no protest about mercury toxification, and wants to vaccinate everyone, is wrong and Rx is right.

Every one of my children had thrush at about a month old. The doctor prescribed Nystatin and told me to use Boric Acid solution to wash with before and after nursing, and as a dusting powder in my bra. It worked like a charm.

The point still is: In spite of the evidence before your eyes, you still think that your milk is better for them?
 
Just wanted to say thank you to all involved for the new session. And also I hope that everyone is on the road to recovery.
This thread has been a major eye opener....and has stopped me in my tracks a few times.

I read the thread Friday night before going off to see my girlfriend.....she had said a few things to me about my recent behaviour and how she was feeling about it. What shone through in the post was Laura's huge level of external considering (contrasted to Bob and Sue's lack of external considering)....so I resolved to do my best to be that externally considerate. As a result my girlfriend had a great weekend....I found attempting to keep my programs (especially self pity) below my neck, quite a fight.....but also found the whole thing energising.

Reading the thread Monday and finally catching up today has been a bit shocking to me....I recognise some parts of my own behaviour in the past (and present) in Bob. I will post elsewhere about that.

It was good to know about the eye thing and peoples view of things zooming in....I had that once or twice as a small kid when I stared at things, so its nice to be able to put that to bed.
Being dyslexic myself I find the discussion so far fascinating....the only thing I can really add perhaps is that I remember crawling...but would mostly move about by sitting down and using my arms to move myself around, by lifting my whole body with my arms and sliding along the floor on my bum.

One last thing I'd like to add....
RedFox said:
Just a short update.
It seems over the past three or four weeks now, every Monday after the program I (at some point during the night) dream of Laura and the gang. I'm not sure if its symbolic or something else...but it may be worth noting that this is the only dream I've ever had that's had a consistent theme on specific days! So seems to be a direct result of the E-E program.
Taking all the dreams as a whole...the common themes seem to be mostly just watching and occasionally saying 'hi', mostly because everyone is so busy/focused it seems rude to interupt. The other common theme (appart from lots of old/grand buildings) is still feeling out of step/sync with what is going on in the dreams...which perhaps explains the first theme.....so much so that upon realising I was 'back there again' last night I think I asked Laura what it was I am missing/need to learn exactly to help out more (starting to feel like a third wheel in the dreams). Perhaps I am not active enough in gaining knowledge....
This Monday (yesterday) I didn't dream of Laura and the gang......so the last dream I had was the the 22nd February (which is when I asked about what I needed to know/learn about). I had just taken them as messages about myself, but looking back there may be some odd correlation.
Feb 8th I dreamt of Laura et al preparing for something, probably an excursion. Joe was majorly stressed out....when I said hi I was slightly taken aback by the shortness of his response 'Hi <name>', it wasn't aggressive or curt....but he was stressed and rushing about. We appeared to be in a cafe, with dark wooden furniture....he'd rounded up the group to continue doing whatever it was they where doing. Later the group where taking a boat ride down a river to look at something with Laura sat in the middle of the boat, and people stood in front of those in the boat (in the water, it was shallow) doing a guided tour (or so it seemed). The river was next to an old castle wall (that appeared mostly white/chalky).
I don't remember the 15th Feb dream well, but it was quiet, busy, oddly green/cool and everyone seemed/felt really tired....I stayed quiet the whole time as to not interupt anyone.
Next time I dream of you lot feeling stressed/tired I'll remember to ask if you are all ok.
 
Wow. That was a powerful session. It was some of the more emotionally demanding material I've read here in a long while, but well worth the pain. I agree with the C's. You all did very well; grace under fire. There's a lot I found in the narrative to respect. Thank-you so much for sharing this; hard lessons are often some of the best. They keep those alchemical fires burning!

The reason I am posting, other than to offer thanks and encouragement, is to note that February was a very hard month for many people, myself included. I can't help but think that some of that nasty airplane-into-IRS-offices energy was triggering things around here in my immediate situation as well.

Through February, I had two bouts of the flu a week apart from one another, (neither as bad as what you experienced, but still enough to make life difficult). But more than this. . , the owner of the house I live in went crazy and things grew quite unpleasant around here, prompting my decision to move out.

Numerous of the characteristics noted in the "Sue" situation struck me as similar; the owner of the house I am in has a slavish devotion to family dependents/parasites, there is a strong history of mental illness with one adult family member suffering and (while able to perform basic work if he so chose), spends his days doing nothing. The other family member is a bed-ridden senior citizen. Everybody in contact with the family feels a sense of pity and offers to help/work for the family with no payment, which the owner asks for frequently and without any degree of hesitation. But the owner also works very hard, being the only bread-winner to care for the other two. A significant portion of the reason I moved into the vacant apartment upstairs was to ensure that there would be another stream of income for the family via my rent, as well as to help out where possible. (I have a well-stocked tool box and I am good at fixing things.)

This scenario with this disadvantaged family has seemed like one of those tipping situations; where the balance of STS to STO behavior indicated a struggling soul with good intentions in the owner, but the situation is by no means free of selfish behavior. I generally walk around with a heightened awareness of this kind of thing, (a benefit largely derived from the excellent work done by the SOTT team), and I constantly review and measure situations.

In the beginning when I first moved in, I felt a heaviness, knowing that I was undertaking a less than perfect living situation, and I was even quite annoyed at points because I felt rather that the universe was railroading me into the situation. But I took reassurance that my time and energy wasn't being wasted here due to the owner's compassionate streak which showed itself from time to time for people in worse off situations, as well as the evident sporadic efforts to work on personal stuff. That seemed very encouraging. I also installed some hefty barriers between my life and theirs, (as well as making use of thick doors and private space which I never allowed to be intruded upon), and while I rendered assistance whenever asked, I was generally able to get on with life without feeling much drain on my energies. The owner and I did have a couple of arguments over some difficult issues, but they resolved in ways which seemed productive and positive. Life lessons learned.

But then February hit and I found myself in a situation where I needed help. Specifically, I needed a lot of storage space. Luckily there was a plenty of it, far more than I required, in the basement. I'd explained when I first moved in that this situation would without question come up after half a year or so. It was something I was planning for. And I'd been led to believe that this wouldn't present a problem; the landlord was extremely eager to have me move in, had in fact been competing with another landlord who had offered me an apartment, (though one which didn't have the space I needed). I slowly learned to suspect, however, that the assurance I had for the space was based on fast and loose promises. Now, to be fair, it is quite possible that my landlord honestly didn't understand, but whatever the case, when the time rolled around when the space would be needed, it was suddenly a big problem.

Excuses were made, and problems arose which would simply make it impossible for me to use the space. I was frustrated but not terribly surprised to see that the sudden 'chaos' (which I had seen before come out of nowhere thus preventing my landlord being able to deliver on past assurances), was indeed very deliberately manufactured. I, however, am quite good at solving chaotic problems. As each lump of chaos began to form, I acted to fix it and smooth things out, dissolving the various issues before they became insurmountable. We played at this game for several days, each of us very tense because we both knew it wasn't about any of these little problems at all, but was in fact a battle of wills, (though I didn't understand why). Until finally, it was realized that the manufactured chaos tactic wasn't going to work. Then the owner simply turned nasty and unreasoning and stubborn. And really, really angry.

That was when I realized it was time to move out. I'd had enough. It had been strongly indicated in early January that I was wanted gone so that they could raise the rent (by more than half!) with the idea that they would find a foreign student from a wealthy family to rent the room to. A few other landlords in the area had achieved this clever trick, so why not them? The awkward friendliness they had once extended to me was retracted, and I threw up my hands figuring, "Okay, fine! It will be a huge relief to out of this mad house."

So I served notice and asked that I be allowed to leave my boxes in the basement until I vacated next month. This request was flatly refused. I was frankly astonished and really disappointed by this. I felt numb. I recounted the dozens of times I'd responded to calls for their help, all the jobs I'd done repairing and installing things around the house, doing yard work, and yet this one time, when it would require no effort from the owner whatsoever, I needed help in return. Just some storage space which wasn't in anybody's way. -Now I know that help isn't banked like money to be counted and withdrawn. I realize that. But it should still flow both ways in a healthy community, and I thought I'd been offering a good example for how this worked. But it was made very clear that they didn't care, and that there was just no way, that I was on my own. Sorry, chump.

I stood there amazed by this. Then I calmly pointed out that there were repercussions to this kind of behavior, especially in a small town. When people only take and never give, the community learns, remembers. Our community is full of strong, smart people and while there was plenty of compassion to go around, free rides end when it is felt that others are being consistently selfish.

Oh boy. That was not well received. The owner shook with anger, and I was soundly told not to issue threats and not to bring other people into it. I was once again stunned. While I am ashamed to admit that a very frustrated and upset part within myself did hope that Karma would reward swiftly on this issue, I explained that I was not threatening anybody, simply pointing out the reality of social dynamics.

It was the extreme bitterness on the owner's part which really threw me. I managed to remain calm (externally, anyway. My heart was racing!), through this exchange, but the waves of anger and fear emanating back at me from my landlord felt like oven heat. The whole thing made me feel sick for days; sleep was nearly impossible, and I certainly had that elephant on my chest as well. I felt really stupid for having trusted in the first place; for having wasted my time on these people.

So between bouts of the flu, and not knowing what else to do, I moved all my boxes upstairs from the basement and stuffed them into my apartment. I got nearly nothing of real work done for all of February, and I cannot wait to get out of here.

But here's the thing. . .

All the people who know me told me that they were really glad I'd decided to move out, that they had watched me grow more and more strained and drained over the course of the year and that they were worried about me. But every time they brought up their concerns, I'd countered with defenses of my landlord, pointing out good efforts and deeds. There have been a few, but overall, I am confused and tired out by the whole thing. I can't tell if I found myself in this situation through positive or negative design. Was it a program designed to hurt me, or was I doing some kind of karmic duty by presenting a good example and by delivering some hard truths at crucial points on a difficult learning curve? Maybe a bit of both?

I don't know.


Wow. I didn't think I was going to share this story, but the similarities and timing of the SOTT problems at the Chateau jumped out at me. Oh yeah. In the middle of my challenges, my computer contracted a virus and had to be re-built from the ground up. Twice. And, now that I think about it, I actually managed to roll my chair over the memory chip for my digital camera, destroying it.

But to be honest, in comparing notes, I think you guys got the worse end of that energy storm, being at such a crucial center of it as you generally are. While my computer did die, nothing actually blew up and I certainly didn't break any fingers!

So hats off to you, and thank-you again for all your efforts! They are of incredible value to the world! Thank-you!
 
Laura said:
Rx said:
Man, what an upsetting situation. knowing the world is pretty much a vile, manipulated hellhole is bad enough, but having it presented in ways so immediate and familiar makes it so much worse. I don't even know Bob or Sue or their baby but my heart breaks for them and their future- what a horrendous time.

I will shed my light on the following in the hopes of adding something constructive that might get back to Bob.
With regards to the following comment:

Laura said:
Well, we did ask with the results you see. And they have both dived into DeNile because it is a lot more than just the dull look in his face, the crab-crawling, etc. As Andromeda mentioned, there was an odd smell to the child that the girls described as like "wet cement" that had gone sour. And this was AFTER he was over being sick. His body had no real tone, either. Like I said, in many ways, he presented as a 7 or 8 month old and that's a big gap for one who measures his life in months.


My son had this smell too and I think that it is the result of a candida overgrowth. Unbeknownst to myself, my dedicated effort in breast feeding all three of my children infected them to varying degrees with candida with my latest baby getting the highest doses of all of them. I couldn't figure out why he was constantly having bouts of diarrhea until he ended up with a terrible case of thrush and then I put it all together since I knew I had candida. It has been awful knowing that every time I nurse my baby, I transmit candida to him and that he has been battling this invasion since he was a newborn. The case of thrush was so bad that the acidity in his mouth and body de-mineralized his brand new teeth within a week leaving him with caries that look just like he had "baby bottle mouth" and I've never given him a bottle once. Managing my own candida has been very tricky in this respect as well since if I kill it off too quickly, the toxins released in the die-off get in my breast milk and he gets a rash all around his mouth. And of course every time he smiles his giant cute smile, I can see the caries on his teeth that I've caused indirectly-he'd only had those teeth for a couple of months!!-Not a happy feeling for me when I see this :(.

For managing his candida though, I've introduced one sippy cup per day of slightly alkalized water (a pinch of baking soda, a pinch of potassium salt and a pinch of magnesium citrate) as well as probiotics and this gets rid of that acidic smell completely. I also keep Nystatin on hand just in case because if I'm not extremely vigilant, the thrush will come back in a matter of days. I think the poor guy knows his body is too acidic since he really wants nothing to do with fruit which most babies love.

Anyway, maybe somehow this info will find it's way to Bob so that he can look into it if he chooses.

Shedding light on this darkness is really all that any of us can do in this situation. I hope it helps.

Rx

Rx, I have to say that I was rendered almost speechless by your statement that you knew your children were getting and staying infected with candida from your milk and yet you continued, long past the time when they had teeth, to give this to them, even to the extent of destroying their teeth. In spite of the evidence before your eyes, you still think that your milk is better for them?

To clarify, I was completely ignorant of candida until after my third and last baby had thrush and the damage to his teeth was done. The thrush itself didn't even raise red flags for me since I knew and was told by the doctor that it was quite common in infants. It was only after reading the threads here on the forum regarding candida, in order to help my husband who at the time was suffering from it, did I begin to apply some of the symptoms to myself and my children. This is when I became proactive in treating myself and my baby. I never considered stopping breastfeeding then since he was seven months old, and milk still made up a large part of his diet, so instead I made a point of treating both myself and him for candida with nystatin and dietary changes. I should also mention that his teeth have not demineralized at all since the bout of Thrush and none of my other children have suffered tooth decay from my breastmilk. I also use a toothpaste for him with milk enzymes and calcium in order to help heal them.

It is true that I continued to breastfeed my baby after I suspected I was transmitting candida to him but I believed the measures I was taking to get rid of it in myself and him would justify continuing since he was still very young. Was it the right choice? I don't know but it was the one I made with knowledge I had at the time and the one I was most comfortable with. And after reading this, maybe I wasn't transmitting candida through breast feeding after all since i never had any real discomfort or infections. It could have been that I infected him at birth:

Hildegarda said:
Laura said:
Unbeknownst to myself, my dedicated effort in breast feeding all three of my children infected them to varying degrees with candida with my latest baby getting the highest doses of all of them.

Rx, I have to say that I was rendered almost speechless by your statement that you knew your children were getting and staying infected with candida from your milk and yet you continued, long past the time when they had teeth, to give this to them, even to the extent of destroying their teeth. In spite of the evidence before your eyes, you still think that your milk is better for them?

As I remember the way it works with candida in babies, it's not really that the mother infects the child with candida through breastfeeding. During pregnancy while the mother's defenses are down and the hormone levels are different, it's easier to get a vaginal yeast infection. The baby picks up the candida in his/her mouth in the birth canal during the birth process, and then can infect the nipples during the beginning of breastfeeding, while the nipples are still sore. Then, with continued breastfeeding, it leads to passing the infection back and forth. To stop the vicious circle, they recommend oral nystatin for the baby and nystatin cream for the mother, and also all kinds of things like washing and ironing your bras all the time, etc. In a more serious cases they do also give diflucan for breastfeeding mothers.

The discomfort of candida infections is a serious deterrent to continued breastfeeding, but if managed early and comprehensively it shouldn't be an issue. Babies who are bottle-fed are actually more likely to develop thrush/candida: the acquisition route is the same, through the birth canal, but because of the way the mouth moves while sucking on a bottle, it puts more stress on the tissues and the infection is more likely to take on; plus it can be hard to sterilize candida off rubber nipples and pacifiers.

Thanks for that Hildegarda.

Anyway, I've come with some ways to manage it in my baby and he is much better which was what I was trying to offer in my original post.
Rx
 
Now I've read too about some high functioning autistics that truly want to connect but in my experience this cannot be so. They do not understand what it means to connect with another so how can they want what they cannot conceive? They might want to fit in so they're not uncomfortable, they might not want to be alone. They might want to mimic others, (there's actually a book written by a HFA woman called Pretending to be normal.)

Megan said:
Ironically, I think people on the autistic spectrum experience many difficulties because of the lack of empathy shown by so many "normal" people.

Hi Chachazoom,

I realize the limitations of this conversations, as you are talking about people you know and what you read that explains their behavior, and I am talking about people I know and things I read that explains their behavior, so we are talking about different people and very likely different things. So the reason why I am addressing your last comment is not to convince you that your interpretation of what you are seeing is wrong, but to provide more information for others who may be reading this thread, wondering about some of their own experiences.

From what I saw, it is possible for the high functioning autistics to want to connect and they can conceptualize that feeling. The difference is that they can conceptualize doing it in their own way, with the communicational strategies natural to them. This is why, if you have two AS kids in the classroom, or two semantic-pragmatics, they find each other like magnets and stick tight, becoming best friends. It also explains why it is easier for high-functioning autistics to connect to other people through their professional or personal interests. One of the ladies I talked about parlayed it into a networking business where she organizes events for a local community. You wouldn't catch her having tea and chatting at anyone's house or vice versa, but she is very connected to everyone through the proxy of the things she does, and that's just as meaningful for her and for others too.

So their difficulties then would be basically language difficulties (language meaning broadly as a way of communicating), because the neurotypical majority makes the neurotypical way a standard one. That connects to what Megan has said, and that's what makes people feel like they have to "pretend to fit in". Here is a fascinating video that sent me thinking along these lines some time ago, it is made by a severely autistic woman and is called "In my language" (///http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc ). Among other things, she says, "I find it very interesting by the way that failure to learn your language is seen as a deficit but failure to learn my language is seen as so natural that people like me are officially described as mysterious and puzzling rather than anyone admitting that it is themselves who are confused, not the autistic or other cognitively disabled people who are inherently confusing. We are even viewed as non-communicative if we don't speak the standard language, but other people are not considered non-communicative if they are so oblivious to our own languages as to believe they don't exist". The irony though is that a way if self-expression doesn't truly constitute a language until there's someone on the receiving side of it and it is reciprocated, so that's her tragedy and isolation right there. But at the very least, my conclusion from all this and other observations is that it is possible for a high-functioning autistic person to conceive being connected to another.

fwiw,
 
Megan said:
chachazoom said:
autistic psychopathy is the original name. I think intelligence levels/personality shape it. I have known one that cannot lie but after years of observation have come to realize that she is the most deceptive person I know. Her whole life is a lie, so enormous you cannot see it. And most every interaction is manipulative. People see her as a saint. I have also known some that are the biggest liars I've ever experienced. I pondered on this deeply. Observed carefully for years. What is consistant is their egocentric thought process. In an autistics world they are the only one that exists in it in a realistic way. That's why they cannot perceive lying the same as non autistics. Lying by definition requires the ability to understand anothers perspective, perception and purposefully to deceive it. In my sil's case she is highly intelligent and I believe she knows that something is very different. There's more to this but I believe she exists to others only through the image of herself she has constructed. She understands much through her intellect and has learned through trial and error how to interact "normal"...
While you made some very good observations earlier about the possible effects of HFAs on the people around them, which I was able to validate to some degree last night talking to the person I live with, I am not sure what you have in mind when you say "that's why they cannot perceive lying the same as non autistics," and I don't see what Hans Asperger's original term for what he observed, "autistic psychopathy," has to do with anything beyond the implication that the particular children he studied may have had impaired empathy, or at least appeared that way to him. Do you understand what a broad generalization you are making based (apparently) upon your family experiences? Is it possible that something else might be running in the family besides (or in addition to) autism?

When someone is obsessive about telling the truth, that is not psychopathy. I am quite familiar with this issue because I have been dealing with it personally all my life. I have only recently (within the last decade) been learning to hold back information when it is socially appropriate to do so. I won't use an alias in this forum because I am not comfortable with doing so. I have also had direct dealings with psychopaths and their "truth is what I believe it to be" form of thinking. These are not the same thing and Asperger didn't claim that they were, that I know of.
I believe however that there is a potential for intellectual deviousness
Ironically, I think people on the autistic spectrum experience many difficulties because of the lack of empathy shown by so many "normal" people.
Megan, apologies if I came across insensitively. By not understanding lying what I meant was that it would require the ability to understand higher mindstates to do so. Although the man I mentioned previously lied consistantly, there was no guilt associated with it and his understanding of the degree that lying is "bad" only goes so far as the consequences or discomfort HE may have to feel if the lie is caught and reacted too. There is no understanding of the degree of hurtfullness it can cause the other. The essence of what makes a lie so repulsive is a mutual understanding of the intent, and all the range of emotions this implies on both sides. It takes two perspectives to meet......I think the man just says the words that will aid him in quickly avoiding discomfort. So I don't really think he's lying even when he is. Also I think many times what appears to be a lie, is actually a completely subjective viewpoint being expressed. I have been very perplexed many times during a communication in which it appears to be a lie, but I also have no doubt that what is being communicated is totally sincere. I also think that to attempt to intentionally decieve, the expressions needed and word choices is too complexed to mimic.
There is potential for intellectual deviousness. FWIW family was only a fraction of my experiences.
 
Hildegarda said:
Here is a fascinating video that sent me thinking along these lines some time ago, it is made by a severely autistic woman and is called "In my language" (///http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc ). Among other things, she says, "I find it very interesting by the way that failure to learn your language is seen as a deficit but failure to learn my language is seen as so natural that people like me are officially described as mysterious and puzzling rather than anyone admitting that it is themselves who are confused, not the autistic or other cognitively disabled people who are inherently confusing. We are even viewed as non-communicative if we don't speak the standard language, but other people are not considered non-communicative if they are so oblivious to our own languages as to believe they don't exist". The irony though is that a way if self-expression doesn't truly constitute a language until there's someone on the receiving side of it and it is reciprocated, so that's her tragedy and isolation right there. But at the very least, my conclusion from all this and other observations is that it is possible for a high-functioning autistic person to conceive being connected to another.

fwiw,

Thank-you....I have viewed this before and agree that it was fascinating. Here's another very interesting film about Dr. Temple Grandin, a well known HFA woman. It's entitleded the woman who thinks like a cow.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+woman+who+thinks+like+a+cow+part+1&search_type=&aq=1&oq=the+woman+who+thinks+like+a+cow
 
As usual, Thank you Laura for sharing and very shocking session after some time.

Laura said:
Session Date: February 22rd 2010


Q: (Andromeda) What about all the high strangeness that we experienced at the time they left the U.S. to come here, the power failure, Bubbles’s computer going dead, and then all the other craziness that was happening, like Mom’s fall, the camera breaking, everybody except Sue getting sick, the faucet in the kitchen breaking when she was scrubbing it and maybe a couple things I forgot?

A: Due to that "little".

Q: (Ailén) What would happen if it was a lot?

(L) All hell would have broken loose! So, in other words, germs, the fall, the power outage, the broken camera, the broken faucet, Bubbles's broken computer... That was not so little!

A: You kidding?!

Q: [laughter] (Perceval) Well, yeah, it was little compared to what it could have been.

(L) Yeah, it was just little stuff.

(Perceval) At least nothing came out [like aliens or demons] and tried to eat anybody!

(Bubbles) Do people like that attract creatures?

A: Yes.

Q: (Perceval) Was she abducted to install her implant?

A: Oh yes. Why do you think she is so resistant to the topic of aliens and UFOs? It has been programmed into her.

..


Q: (Burma Jones) Is there anything we could have done to protect ourselves from the little meanies coming in?

A: You actually did quite well!

Q: (L) So it could have been a LOT worse! [laughter]

A: Yes.

Q: (L) That's comforting to know.

..

Q: (Mr. Scott) Can it be fixed if Laura does an exorcism, or do we have to send it in? That's the question. [laughter]

(Burma Jones) Was there anything symbolic about how that camera went out, or was it just Sue sort of sending some psychic energy?

A: EM bursts.

Q: [short break to discuss answers] (L) So we've got a couple of questions now. Well, this scenario that has been described about Bob and Sue and us suggests either time travel, or as Burma Jones said that they've got a whole lot of women floating around that are preprogrammed and prepared to be activated and used when and where needed. So, which is it?

A: Both.

Q: (Perceval) They cover all bases.

(Bubbles) Did someone make an effort to go back in time to mould Sue' future the way they wanted it?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Well, that's entertaining to say the least. (Bubbles) Who went back in time to mould her future?

A: "Them".
Implants can burst EM waves means?, This is really really scary. It is scary to observe planting people in our lifes. It tells how deep 4D STS goes. It is depressing.
 
Thanks for asking about me and the wife's Alice in Wonderland syndrome. ;)

I bet mine is related to taking anti-depressants. Good to know.
 
I would also like to add that having indirect contact with the C's was a really awesome experience! Gave me chills! Thanks again!
 
Sorry for the late post I have been on travel. I have a couple of things to add

These two taken together:

[quote author=anart]No matter how much I learn about 'the Consortium', their cruelty continues to floor me - it is unfathomable to me.[/quote]

[quote author=iconoclast]i just wanted to point out to anyone who is single and feeling unhappy about it or the need to 'do' something about it:
there is probably a reason why society at large places so much importance on being in a relationship/getting married/hooking up with someone!
think about it! you get bombarded with it almost non-stop (even worse for women)!
or the look you sometimes get when you tell people you aren't in a relationship!

it's the perfect vehicle to inject chaos into people's lives.

and also consider how much of your desire to 'find someone' is purely motivated by STS thinking.[/quote]

Thanks both of you! Don't forget that many of us come from broken homes where we had love and intimacy swept away as children, and have been striving to restore it since. There's a BIG Achilles' heel! EDIT: noise deleted.

[quote author=chachazoom]It is called or was, autistic psychopathy. One thing I've learned is it takes a lot of intuition as much as anything else. Also, long term exposure to a HF undiagnosed autistic causes the partner to mirror them and it has been my experience that it is very difficult to discern which is the autistic and which the affected. And also in my experience, the partner of the HFA dies early.[/quote]

Thank you for all of this chachazoom. It seems that several of us met similar women in 2006. In my case she was an LMFT relationship therapist, and I took that as a sign she had above average relationship skill. Hah! Lesson learned. My guess: Hear your inner voice, stand up for what you believe. Then the fire will turn even more bitterly against you, and your inner voice will cry, "See!! I told you so! Better now than later!!"

[quote author=Los]Today I feel like I am seeing women with slightly different eyes. There's no desire to 'have' or imagination of what life could be like with this or that woman (which I think was always present to some degree, even if there was not the conscious thought). The muddy longing to be with another is gone and I hope it stays that way. I hope I'm not misunderstood to be dogging genuine love, because I'm not. But it's impossible to be open to real love when you're stuck in it's false image.[/quote]

I recently punted the quest also. Very good decision. I will not even look with wont now. No response to sexual/attraction desire. It's tough, but I can go out now and hold the line. Result: Now I am looking at everyone's pain instead of being a tripping lust head. And it hurts a lot. Isn't it interesting how desire for intimacy blinds us?

EDIT: I am glad for this though it has been painful. Fit right in with my finishing HS. Thanks everybody!
 

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