Session 22 July 2010

[Possibility of Being]

You can't seriously note anything as truth from any source. Intuition is a legitimate source of knowledge, one more powerful than rational reasoning if you can decipher it.

There is an internal contradiction in that quote, can you see it?

As far as intuition is concerned, it can be, and more often than not it IS highly distorted by numerous factors including traumas, defensive mechanisms, wishful thinking, lack of relevant knowledge, external influences.

I can't help but wonder why you seem to be advocating so strongly against rational reasoning?

 

[Laura]

Hi I've been a lurker for a while now.

I've come to the conclusion that whilst good these scripts are peppered with STS influence. The notion of soul smashing being one of them.

Since I haven't got a clue who you are, where you've been, what research you've done, or anything else about you, for that matter, your conclusion means absolutely nothing because it contradicts the conclusions of a great many people about whom I do know a lot, including the fact that they are intelligent, well-read, have many experiences of value, have excellent thinking skills, etc.

See?

Another thing that I believe shows it to be true is their description of what happened on 9/11. I think by asking a lot of "earthly" questions you open the doors to STS. Of course I don't know anything about channeling to be fair.

Sounds like you've been hanging around the Qu'o people too long. Remember what happened to Don Elkins because nobody was interested in asking any "earthly" questions. This is covered thoroughly in the Wave Series and in various places on the forum here.

<snip>

As for the soul smashing it's at odds with the Q'uo transcripts, which are far less fear mongering in that respect. A lot of religions which are STS influenced such as judaism, christianity, islam etc... all have this idea that something bad will happen if you fail to do a certain thing. Just my thoughts on this, the soul smashing thing surprised me as it seemed way out of key with the cassiopeia message.

I'm really not concerned if what the Cs say is at odds with the Ra material and Qu'o material. This forum exists to discuss the Cs' material and do research inspired by same. If you haven't read The Wave or the other materials referred to in the forum guidelines, best back up and do so before posting further.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, just an opposite point of view to consider. The thing that separates cults from honest debate.

Let me know what you think... Thx.

See above. This forum exists for a particular reason; it is our cyber-home. If you don't like the decor or the food or the other guests and what they are interested in discussing, there is a party over on the Qu'o forum, I'm sure.

 

[darkhazza]

I can't help but wonder why you seem to be advocating so strongly against rational reasoning?

I generally don't. But this "truth" cannot be verified by any source of this world. There can always be a counter-argument against anything and everything. Intuition is the only connection to the creator that is trustable. Albeit often noisy and distorted.

Since I haven't got a clue who you are, where you've been, what research you've done, or anything else about you, for that matter, your conclusion means absolutely nothing because it contradicts the conclusions of a great many people about whom I do know a lot, including the fact that they are intelligent, well-read, have many experiences of value, have excellent thinking skills, etc.

This forum is great for people ignoring a concept because of the person who posted it. You could have just said why you think these parts were un-STS infected, assuming the cass material is STS infected at some point. Which it invariably is, by their own admission. Instead I'm not one of the people you trust to present an idea or concept. It must inherently be false. I need to leave a full resume before I'm qualified to formulate a serious opinion. Random people presenting ideas is a bad idea in this forum... in case it clogs up the intertubes or something with noise.

See above. This forum exists for a particular reason; it is our cyber-home. If you don't like the decor or the food or the other guests and what they are interested in discussing, there is a party over on the Qu'o forum, I'm sure.

lol lol lol... carry on with your circle jerk then. I got nothing against the decor, or people... but instead of saying why my argument is false, why x isn't an STS addition, you ask how I can come to such a conclusion without being an expert. Anything I say will be wrong because I haven't read enough in your eyes. I'm controlled by the mass media etc.

 

[anart]

Actually, no one ever said anyone has to be an expert. It was merely pointed out that it helps to at least know a thing or two before making conclusions about a topic. I wouldn't go to a forum on jet engines and tell everyone that their design was uninspired because I don't know anything about jet engine design other than what I think 'looks cool'. That is subjective on my part. Your 'intuition' is subjective on your part.

Your reaction to having this pointed out, however, is very telling about your character and mind set. You'll be much, much happier elsewhere, 'darkhazza' - so I hope you find what you're looking for out there.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Why do so many people consider anything that's not happy, warm, and fuzzy is STS? The idea of there existing consequences for your actions, that some actions lead to pain and suffering while others do not, is somehow STS just because someone dares mention the words suffering or hardship. It's nice to think that no matter what you do everything will be just fine and dandy and rosy, but that's not how reality works, and being uncomfortable with something has absolutely nothing to do with whether it is true or not, and whether it is STS or STO.

Everyone likes to hear that everything will be ok, that they're safe, that God/aliens/whoever will take care of them, we just need to pray and meditate and fill ourselves with imaginary white light and blissful feelings, and smile and love everybody and we're well on our way to a spiritual existence. Any talk of spiritual pain, of emotional suffering, of our predatory nature and pathocratic conditioning, of having to cut off the food supply of others by refusing to be food and fighting against our predator's constant attempts to feed on others, etc, all of that is of course just STS nonsense because it's just so uncomfortable, it means we're not guaranteed salvation/ascension/eternal spiritual bliss/whatever.

How dare someone suggest that the universe doesn't throw free money at everyone, that there is no free lunch? Well, how many snake oil salesmen does it take before someone stops believing that life is easy and all the gifts of the universe are free, and all the answers are "within" (read: wishful thinking), and that nothing must be earned or paid for up front? Yeah these ideas please our STS natures, our desire to always get something for nothing, and that's why we can be so easily manipulated and sold snake oil. The bottom line is that extra virgin olive oil is way better, just make sure to get a dark bottle because light has a negative effect on it (that means don't surround yourself with spiritual light until after you eat it), and it's not really meant for high heat. I get mine at Trader Joe's and it's a decent price.

 

[Laura]

Why do so many people consider anything that's not happy, warm, and fuzzy is STS?

The same people think Twinkies and Ho-Hos are nutritious! Or, conversely, think that raw vegetables are a good idea for the entire diet.

The idea of there existing consequences for your actions, that some actions lead to pain and suffering while others do not, is somehow STS just because someone dares mention the words suffering or hardship. It's nice to think that no matter what you do everything will be just fine and dandy and rosy, but that's not how reality works, and being uncomfortable with something has absolutely nothing to do with whether it is true or not, and whether it is STS or STO.

It's the Fundie Jesus rant in a different suit of clothes: just BELIEVE and all will be fine! And if it isn't, then you aren't believing hard enough!

Everyone likes to hear that everything will be ok, that they're safe, that God/aliens/whoever will take care of them, we just need to pray and meditate and fill ourselves with imaginary white light and blissful feelings, and smile and love everybody and we're well on our way to a spiritual existence. Any talk of spiritual pain, of emotional suffering, of our predatory nature and pathocratic conditioning, of having to cut off the food supply of others by refusing to be food and fighting against our predator's constant attempts to feed on others, etc, all of that is of course just STS nonsense because it's just so uncomfortable, it means we're not guaranteed salvation/ascension/eternal spiritual bliss/whatever.

So many people want a free lunch. Those are the people that usually ARE lunch!

How dare someone suggest that the universe doesn't throw free money at everyone, that there is no free lunch? Well, how many snake oil salesmen does it take before someone stops believing that life is easy and all the gifts of the universe are free, and all the answers are "within" (read: wishful thinking), and that nothing must be earned or paid for up front? Yeah these ideas please our STS natures, our desire to always get something for nothing, and that's why we can be so easily manipulated and sold snake oil.

It is interesting to observe, isn't it?

 

[Psalehesost]

So you think that the truth will come without work or effort on anyone's part?

Precisely. There is a natural progression of this world[...] If there was no natural progression everything would still be at 1st density. That which is natural is not work/effort. Work/effort is required to alter the natural course of events, in order to speed the process or in the case of STS to control the situation. [...] If it comes without work and is fun and feels right invariably it is part of a natural progression.

Work and effort may well also arise as part of a natural progression - there may be more than one natural progression - and this being an STS world, things flow very easily towards entropy, while moving in the opposite direction is harder, suggesting that the kind of natural progression where work and effort in a certain direction is invoked is that which leads towards STO - and that that which involves a warm and cozy passivity is quite the opposite.

 

[shijing]

So you think that the truth will come without work or effort on anyone's part?

Precisely. There is a natural progression of this world[...] If there was no natural progression everything would still be at 1st density. That which is natural is not work/effort. Work/effort is required to alter the natural course of events, in order to speed the process or in the case of STS to control the situation. [...] If it comes without work and is fun and feels right invariably it is part of a natural progression.

Work and effort may well also arise as part of a natural progression - there may be more than one natural progression - and this being an STS world, things flow very easily towards entropy, while moving in the opposite direction is harder, suggesting that the kind of natural progression where work and effort in a certain direction is invoked is that which leads towards STO - and that that which involves a warm and cozy passivity is quite the opposite.

That's true -- and I think the world is full of examples of what could be considered a natural progression, but still require an enormous amount of work.

 

[Gonzo]

Wow. I feel really sad for darkhazza if he/she cannot see how entrenched beliefs hold one back. On the other hand, I don't feel too bad if darkhazza came her to impose on everyone his/her "truth".

Judging by the behaviour, I'm leaning toward the latter, although only on the surface as the comments about fear mongering seem to have been part of the thrust and the main intention was more likely to inject chaos, to self gratify, and perhaps even copy and paste to pals and say "my what a good boy/girl am I."

I appreciate that no one took the bait and reacted emotionally. On a few occasions such emotional reactions, as much as I understood them, may have effectiveness of pointing out the posters' illogical beliefs, subjective perceptions or need to seek professional help, OSIT.

I do wonder if there was anything that could have been said (aside from adulation and agreement) that might have pleased this hazza of the dark or aided in this poor soul's need for illumination of his/her extreme subjectivity.

however, I do find the nick, darkhazza, interesting.

According to one entry in the highly reputable and infallible Urban Dictionary, hazza might be a term to denote a non-Christian follower of Christ.

So, maybe a darkhazza is the above mentioned during a blackout or perhaps with a significant visual impairment.

Hmm, if you Google darkhazza you might see a few interesting results, including a FB page, a Dig profile and some online gaming references. I'm on my mobile, so I can't really see the sites that well.

Honestly, I haven't a clue what a hazza is, although I think I heard my step-son exclaim the term a few times when he was a pre-teen and had a Harry Potter cape and wand. But surely a dark hazza can't be good. Can it? Dark thoughts, dark mood, dark side (heck even darkness is nowhere near as interesting as Loch Ness).

Aside from chocolate, the taste of which I barely recall now that I'm eating better, I can't think of much that is improved by modifying a noun with a preceding "dark".

So, can anyone enlighten me? Does hazza mean anything? I'm feeling old and out of touch.

Gonzo

 

[Buddy]

...but instead of saying why my argument is false, why x isn't an STS addition, you ask how I can come to such a conclusion without being an expert. Anything I say will be wrong because I haven't read enough in your eyes. I'm controlled by the mass media etc.

You don't have to be "well read" for this thread to be educational and beneficial for everyone, but it would help if you could catch an overview of your own thinking patterns and assertions (which are hindering you from grasping what is going on here, OSIT). Examples follow:

Is this a confession to being merely superficial?

No it's just very easy to shut out ideas because someone hasn't read what you have, or as much as someone else.

I'm not convinced you understood my question. Your statements must either be connected to the ground of reality, through your own observation, experience and knowledge or they are not. If they are not, then your statements are meaningless type. You already prove you know this when you attempt to reason with others.

That which is natural is not work/effort.

This is a falsehood on its face. This statement treats "natural" and work/effort as mutually exclusive. In addition, the statement includes an implied value judgement about work/effort, like: "Work/effort is bad/undesirable" and that work/effort means the same to Universe as it does to lazy-natured general man. Also, you have a point of view which is obvious whether your posts point it out or not and the fact of it adds further qualification to what you say.

Intuition is a legitimate source of knowledge, one more powerful than rational reasoning if you can decipher it.

Says who? Can you give an example? If you replaced "knowledge" with "data/information", the statement would be interesting to discuss.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Cliches? Do you not "intuit" what's wrong with that one? In a sense, it reverses cause and effect. Greed/pathology comes before the effects of the corruption of power in it's manifestation. IOW, absolute greed corrupts absolutely, would be closer to the truth, OSIT.

I can't help but wonder why you seem to be advocating so strongly against rational reasoning?

I generally don't. But this "truth" cannot be verified by any source of this world. There can always be a counter-argument against anything and everything. Intuition is the only connection to the creator that is trustable. Albeit often noisy and distorted.

Godel's Incompleteness Theorem is a demonstration of an interesting phenomena. That is to say, there are some 'truths' that can be arrived at inductively/deductively that cannot be satisfactorily expressed/conveyed deductively.

But even so, a 'truth' that cannot be explained or deductively illuminated with language, is a worthy subject for intense scrutiny and research which has already been pointed out:

This forum exists to discuss the Cs' material and do research inspired by same.

So it appears to me that all the bases are covered at this point and that darkhazza's "arguments" can take their rightful place on the list of proofs of how we can't think about the way we think, WITH the way we think, OSIT. :)



Edit: clarity

 

[Vulcan59]

So, can anyone enlighten me? Does hazza mean anything? I'm feeling old and out of touch.
Gonzo

Hi Gonzo,

My definition; hazza = troll and so the "dark" was very appropriate, OSIT.

 

[Buddy]

So, can anyone enlighten me? Does hazza mean anything? I'm feeling old and out of touch.

Unless the person is related to the Chinese manufacturer of handbags, travel bags and luggage, a participant of the Opera-related "Place For Our Combined Randomness" (_http://my.opera.com/hazza_world/about/), then I would support Vulcan's "intuition":

Hazza'rah is a shadow hunter-like troll ghost boss that can spawn from the Edge of Madness event in Zul'Gurub. The event requires a Gurubashi Mojo Madness, the recipe for which can be learned by an alchemist from the Tablet of Madness located in the area.
_http://www.wowhead.com/npc=15083/hazzarah

:D

 

[truth seeker]

I do wonder if there was anything that could have been said (aside from adulation and agreement) that might have pleased this hazza of the dark or aided in this poor soul's need for illumination of his/her extreme subjectivity.

Probably not. From what I was able to make of a couple of darkhazza's contradictions, he/she was comfortable with the doom and gloom scenario but only to a certain point. It seemed to be the soul smashing that was too much. At that point, fault was found with much if not all of the transcripts. I guess this was their attempt at self soothing.

Sometimes, the best way for someone to be "illuminated from their subjectivity" is to be left alone with it. One can only reach out a hand but so far. There needs to be someone reaching back as well otherwise the one reaching out can fall over the edge in their attempting to assist.

It can be difficult or uncomfortable to see conflict and hope that we can do something to make it better. There comes a point, however, when an attempt to help can become self serving and does more harm than good. A tricky situation yet important to discern. :)

 

[Chopper]

Thank you again Laura & team !

I just about have my boat ready and it seems just in time after reading this session.

I am done with the Phyco's and haveing to live under thier land laws ( and the more laws to come for shure)

Thank you again Laura.

I have tried to do my part getting out the word and letting ppl know about you and your books and this site , needless to say told to the wrong ppl all the sudden "I" become the phyco LOL ...... but I am careful and all the ppl I know personally have allready arrived at these things like myself ...

 

[Cosmos]

Thank you again Laura & team !

I just about have my boat ready and it seems just in time after reading this session.

I am done with the Phyco's and haveing to live under thier land laws ( and the more laws to come for shure)

Thank you again Laura.

I have tried to do my part getting out the word and letting ppl know about you and your books and this site , needless to say told to the wrong ppl all the sudden "I" become the phyco LOL ...... but I am careful and all the ppl I know personally have allready arrived at these things like myself ...

What do you mean with "I just about have my boat ready and it seems just in time after reading this session" can you explain in more detail ?