Thank you Laura, Ark and crew! And also thanks to all the responders!
Wow, what a session! With the session and input from so many others it has got me thinking in all kinds of directions trying to put pieces together.
From the C's suggestion to connect the dots it sounds like it may be OK to try to connect dots. I have been trying to do this in various directions for many years. But then the following quote had me a little confused:
From the answer above it sounds like even though we should try to connect the dots by carefully "observing reality left and right" we should maybe be wary of "Automatic pattern recognition". I think it is the "Automatic" part that may cause the software to run amok. Anyway, running amok doesn't sound positive to me.
While trying to connect the dots I will also try to be as objective and non-automatic in my pattern recognition as possible. Nevertheless, if you spot any inconsistency or error feel free to let me know so I can get a more objective and "real" or "truthful" view.
There has been much in the session and replies that has sparked connections for me. Maybe my background as a computer programmer/applications developer has a lot to do with how I view information. My last position was working in a data warehouse environment producing reports based on large volumes of data and date ranges. "Software running amok" was not looked upon very favorably.
Continuing with more from the session:
From the answer above I was really starting to re-think the concept of "information" storage. Storing data or "information" in "Consciousness" is not a data-warehouse concept in the usual sense. From this point I had to switch from the strictly mechanical/scientific view to one that includes more esoteric/spiritual concepts of what "information" means.
Actually in the session the question about where information is stored was preceeded by these questions and answers about the relationship between consciousness, information and matter:
Mr. Scott’s reply really inspired me to investigate further into the concept of “information”
Approaching Infinity’s observation’s quoted by Mr. Scott above at first did not compute with me. Approaching Infinity says: “The way I think of it, information is the shaping principle that decides "this way, not those ways." In other words, it chooses and arranges based on the possibilities present.”
As a former computer programmer information has always meant data to me which is contained in those bits and bytes and stored on various media. As I read further and thought about it really hard (thinking with a hammer?) I realized he was using “information” in the sense of “the Stoic philosophy of the logos which focuses on the “informing” part of information. Part of Wikipedia’s definition of logos is:
“Ancient philosophers used the term in different ways. The sophists used the term to mean discourse, and Aristotle applied the term to refer to "reasoned discourse"[4] or "the argument" in the field of rhetoric.[5] The Stoic philosophers identified the term with the divine animating principle pervading the Universe.”
Having been brought up in a Christian environment I used to think another Wikipedia definition of Logos: “The Christian concept of the Logos is derived from the first chapter of the Gospel of John, where the Logos (often translated as “Word”) is described in terms that resemble, but likely surpass, the ideas of Philo:[29]
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.”
As you can see there are different definitions even for the word Logos. Trying to use an analogy that uses computer terms or definitions does not translate very well for the Stoic definition of “information”. However; this does not mean that the computer analogy is not useful for understanding “consciousness”.
I actually agree with the above quote except for “but in doing so we've just limited possibilities for further understanding and discovery.”. After thinking about the difference between the definition of “information” according to Stoic philosophy and computer sciences I can see why Mr. Scott feels “limited”.
If we could look again at the computer analogy we could benefit by adding another term to the model which would be “Program”. Program in my way of thinking would correspond to the Stoic “Logos”. The program “is the shaping principle that decides "this way, not those ways." In other words, the logic of the program "chooses and arranges based on the possibilities present.
The “information” or “data” is what the program “chooses or “arranges” to provide the result or output. In today's information systems the program logic "chooses" or "arranges information". The "information" is used as a noun not a verb. The more "Truth" there is in the "information" the higher concentration of truth you find in the program output.
In relating the session quote above to the computer model there are some interesting comparisons that I find. For instance “pure information”. How many times I have hoped to have “pure information” to work with. There is an acronym GIGO which most in the IT field recognize as “garbage in garbage out”. But the question Laura asks “and information like maybe pure information would be the purest form?” gets the answer:
“A: Not necessarily, information arranged by a truth becomes consciousness. That is why truth and objectivity are so important. Without it, consciousness and individuality fractures and disintegrates.”
Just as computer programmers must deal with impure information the C’s indicate “Not necessarily” do you need “pure information” to get “Different concentrations of truth”. In writing a program many times you must arrange the data by first sorting it. For instance you may wish to sort it by State, County, Date of Birth and Last Name. In addition to sorting you may wish to separate the information into two different files such as Male and Female. The possibilities vary depending on the segment categories or fields for each record.
You may learn that records in your data or information having a Begin Date prior to 2001 are to be excluded from the output due to inaccuracies when they were stored. This could be considered as filtering for “impure information”. Your final result would be a certain “concentration of truth” which you would then become aware of in the form of a report.
Where is the report stored? It is stored on various kinds of media such as hard drives, tapes, CDs, DVDs or flash drives. Until you access the report for viewing it will stay out of sight on your storage device much as information lies hidden in our subconscious. The information becomes “consciousness” to us only upon retrieval.
Where is “Consciousness” stored? How about at least partially in our grey “matter”?
Just as hard drives sometimes have faulty sectors on them and even sometimes crash we can also develop Alzheimer's disease and dementia. This may affect our “concentration of truth”.
So far this is probably very mechanical and boring zzzz….
. Rather than continuing to ramble on I will wrap up with a short list of ideas than came to me as I was reading this session and the previous session:
1. Storing oil (pure information) in our lamps (hard drives ect.) is like storing "true" knowledge or "data arranged by truth" as the C’s mention above.
2. I believe the oil may be stored in our subconscious. Gurdjieff speaks of the subconscious:
4. Gurdjieff says the subconscious contains our real "Conscience".
8. Deprogramming the mechanical machine requires "Work" to access "data arranged by Truth" from our subconscious and store ongoing observations of "data arranged by truth" in our subconscious (i.e. our lamp). Part of the deprogramming requires that we also clean the machine of data not arranged by truth (not so easy) and discover our "mission destiny profile" (I'm still working on all of this too). Mouravieff observes most if not all of what we read, study and absorb from objective observation is stored in our subconscious and we have to do the “Work” in order to access it.
[quote author= Boris Mouravieff GNOSIS BOOK ONE
The Exoteric Cycle Chapter 5 pgs 34-35]
The intellectual centre in the child is a tabula rasa. It can be compared to a
system of gramophone discs which have not yet been recorded. The
system is vast, well regulated, and provided with a mechanism — that of
association—by which any disc arriving at its end automatically releases a
second, the contents of which are related to the first. A record which turns
as someone speaks can similarly provoke in us—again by association—the
release of an equivalent record. In general this is how dialogue is born and
sustained.
This procedure is mechanical. We can easily observe this in any conversation
between a number of persons who know each other slightly.
Such an interchange necessarily falls to an elementary level of the most
banal interests: weather, political news, or the city. We hear these records
being played, turning continually and passing from one person to another,
each with their faces congealed in a grimace which—we commonly agree
— gives evidence of an amiable attitude.
The recording continues practically forever, as the disc library is vast
and the recording apparatus very sensitive. When a person speaks, it is
generally easy to distinguish whether his records are playing or whether he
speaks from some deeper part of himself. In the latter case, he uses a
pictorial, rustic and sometimes awkward language; in the former he speaks
in a singing tone of voice. It is important to make these observations upon ourselves, in order to be able to constate such variations of speech. One
moment it is 'I' who speaks then, unnoticed, it is no longer I; a recording
from the past begins to play in me. A curious thing: once a record has been
started, it is almost impossible to stop it before it has run through its
content.
There are discs which we should carefully preserve, while others should
be re-recorded. A special series of discs sometimes concerns the techniques
of one's work. Everyone in his everyday work unconsciously creates a
collection of such discs, which he uses for the needs of his profession.
Beside these recordings are others whose contents are without sense:
they do not correspond either to needs or facts. This category includes for
example anecdotes and what seems to the speaker to be witty conversation.
Interior observation of this phenomenon would reveal a whole repertoire
of such records. A discovery like this would offer us the opportunity of
working to control the release of a particular type of recording, and so try
to eliminate it completely.
For that, we must first start to distinguish these from useful discs which
have some purpose. This is done by analysis of their contents, and by the
inner 'taste' which causes them to be played, as well as by the characteristic
intonation that they give to the voice. Thereafter, we must try to catch the
exact moment of their release. It is in that precise moment — we shall see
later on why this is so — that it is possible to control these recordings and
eliminate those which are useless.
[/quote]
9. Perhaps the coming Wave will activate DNA and produce a "hyperkinetic-sensate" state of self-remembering or greater access to our subconscious. This sudden "hyperkenetic-sensate" state may, for those who have not prepared for it, become "post transformational trauma and confusion" (http://cassiopaea.org/2010/05/18/the-wave-chapter-25-a-walk-in-nature-among-the-names-of-god-where-we-have-an-interview-with-the-vampire-and-discover-a-cosmic-egg/).
Perhaps preparation prior to the full impact of the Wave may as the C's say make it “smoother” to make the transition to our new "state" or "density". Storing good clean oil and cleaning our lamps as much as possible before the full impact of the Wave arrives may be crucial.
Mucho Gusto,
goyacobol
Wow, what a session! With the session and input from so many others it has got me thinking in all kinds of directions trying to put pieces together.
Laura said:
From the C's suggestion to connect the dots it sounds like it may be OK to try to connect dots. I have been trying to do this in various directions for many years. But then the following quote had me a little confused:
Laura said:
From the answer above it sounds like even though we should try to connect the dots by carefully "observing reality left and right" we should maybe be wary of "Automatic pattern recognition". I think it is the "Automatic" part that may cause the software to run amok. Anyway, running amok doesn't sound positive to me.
While trying to connect the dots I will also try to be as objective and non-automatic in my pattern recognition as possible. Nevertheless, if you spot any inconsistency or error feel free to let me know so I can get a more objective and "real" or "truthful" view.
There has been much in the session and replies that has sparked connections for me. Maybe my background as a computer programmer/applications developer has a lot to do with how I view information. My last position was working in a data warehouse environment producing reports based on large volumes of data and date ranges. "Software running amok" was not looked upon very favorably.
Continuing with more from the session:
Laura said:
From the answer above I was really starting to re-think the concept of "information" storage. Storing data or "information" in "Consciousness" is not a data-warehouse concept in the usual sense. From this point I had to switch from the strictly mechanical/scientific view to one that includes more esoteric/spiritual concepts of what "information" means.
Actually in the session the question about where information is stored was preceeded by these questions and answers about the relationship between consciousness, information and matter:
Laura said:
Mr. Scott’s reply really inspired me to investigate further into the concept of “information”
Mr. Scott said:
Approaching Infinity’s observation’s quoted by Mr. Scott above at first did not compute with me. Approaching Infinity says: “The way I think of it, information is the shaping principle that decides "this way, not those ways." In other words, it chooses and arranges based on the possibilities present.”
As a former computer programmer information has always meant data to me which is contained in those bits and bytes and stored on various media. As I read further and thought about it really hard (thinking with a hammer?) I realized he was using “information” in the sense of “the Stoic philosophy of the logos which focuses on the “informing” part of information. Part of Wikipedia’s definition of logos is:
“Ancient philosophers used the term in different ways. The sophists used the term to mean discourse, and Aristotle applied the term to refer to "reasoned discourse"[4] or "the argument" in the field of rhetoric.[5] The Stoic philosophers identified the term with the divine animating principle pervading the Universe.”
Having been brought up in a Christian environment I used to think another Wikipedia definition of Logos: “The Christian concept of the Logos is derived from the first chapter of the Gospel of John, where the Logos (often translated as “Word”) is described in terms that resemble, but likely surpass, the ideas of Philo:[29]
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.”
As you can see there are different definitions even for the word Logos. Trying to use an analogy that uses computer terms or definitions does not translate very well for the Stoic definition of “information”. However; this does not mean that the computer analogy is not useful for understanding “consciousness”.
Mr. Scott said:
I actually agree with the above quote except for “but in doing so we've just limited possibilities for further understanding and discovery.”. After thinking about the difference between the definition of “information” according to Stoic philosophy and computer sciences I can see why Mr. Scott feels “limited”.
If we could look again at the computer analogy we could benefit by adding another term to the model which would be “Program”. Program in my way of thinking would correspond to the Stoic “Logos”. The program “is the shaping principle that decides "this way, not those ways." In other words, the logic of the program "chooses and arranges based on the possibilities present.
The “information” or “data” is what the program “chooses or “arranges” to provide the result or output. In today's information systems the program logic "chooses" or "arranges information". The "information" is used as a noun not a verb. The more "Truth" there is in the "information" the higher concentration of truth you find in the program output.
Laura said:
In relating the session quote above to the computer model there are some interesting comparisons that I find. For instance “pure information”. How many times I have hoped to have “pure information” to work with. There is an acronym GIGO which most in the IT field recognize as “garbage in garbage out”. But the question Laura asks “and information like maybe pure information would be the purest form?” gets the answer:
“A: Not necessarily, information arranged by a truth becomes consciousness. That is why truth and objectivity are so important. Without it, consciousness and individuality fractures and disintegrates.”
Just as computer programmers must deal with impure information the C’s indicate “Not necessarily” do you need “pure information” to get “Different concentrations of truth”. In writing a program many times you must arrange the data by first sorting it. For instance you may wish to sort it by State, County, Date of Birth and Last Name. In addition to sorting you may wish to separate the information into two different files such as Male and Female. The possibilities vary depending on the segment categories or fields for each record.
You may learn that records in your data or information having a Begin Date prior to 2001 are to be excluded from the output due to inaccuracies when they were stored. This could be considered as filtering for “impure information”. Your final result would be a certain “concentration of truth” which you would then become aware of in the form of a report.
Where is the report stored? It is stored on various kinds of media such as hard drives, tapes, CDs, DVDs or flash drives. Until you access the report for viewing it will stay out of sight on your storage device much as information lies hidden in our subconscious. The information becomes “consciousness” to us only upon retrieval.
Laura said:
Where is “Consciousness” stored? How about at least partially in our grey “matter”?
Just as hard drives sometimes have faulty sectors on them and even sometimes crash we can also develop Alzheimer's disease and dementia. This may affect our “concentration of truth”.
So far this is probably very mechanical and boring zzzz….
. Rather than continuing to ramble on I will wrap up with a short list of ideas than came to me as I was reading this session and the previous session:1. Storing oil (pure information) in our lamps (hard drives ect.) is like storing "true" knowledge or "data arranged by truth" as the C’s mention above.
2. I believe the oil may be stored in our subconscious. Gurdjieff speaks of the subconscious:
4. Gurdjieff says the subconscious contains our real "Conscience".
G.I.Gurdjieff Beelzebub'sTales to His Grandson Chapter 48 pgs 24-25] I shall expound my thoughts intentionally in such a sequence and with such logical confrontation that the essence of certain real ideas may pass automatically from this "waking consciousness said:
8. Deprogramming the mechanical machine requires "Work" to access "data arranged by Truth" from our subconscious and store ongoing observations of "data arranged by truth" in our subconscious (i.e. our lamp). Part of the deprogramming requires that we also clean the machine of data not arranged by truth (not so easy) and discover our "mission destiny profile" (I'm still working on all of this too). Mouravieff observes most if not all of what we read, study and absorb from objective observation is stored in our subconscious and we have to do the “Work” in order to access it.
[quote author= Boris Mouravieff GNOSIS BOOK ONE
The Exoteric Cycle Chapter 5 pgs 34-35]
The intellectual centre in the child is a tabula rasa. It can be compared to a
system of gramophone discs which have not yet been recorded. The
system is vast, well regulated, and provided with a mechanism — that of
association—by which any disc arriving at its end automatically releases a
second, the contents of which are related to the first. A record which turns
as someone speaks can similarly provoke in us—again by association—the
release of an equivalent record. In general this is how dialogue is born and
sustained.
This procedure is mechanical. We can easily observe this in any conversation
between a number of persons who know each other slightly.
Such an interchange necessarily falls to an elementary level of the most
banal interests: weather, political news, or the city. We hear these records
being played, turning continually and passing from one person to another,
each with their faces congealed in a grimace which—we commonly agree
— gives evidence of an amiable attitude.
The recording continues practically forever, as the disc library is vast
and the recording apparatus very sensitive. When a person speaks, it is
generally easy to distinguish whether his records are playing or whether he
speaks from some deeper part of himself. In the latter case, he uses a
pictorial, rustic and sometimes awkward language; in the former he speaks
in a singing tone of voice. It is important to make these observations upon ourselves, in order to be able to constate such variations of speech. One
moment it is 'I' who speaks then, unnoticed, it is no longer I; a recording
from the past begins to play in me. A curious thing: once a record has been
started, it is almost impossible to stop it before it has run through its
content.
There are discs which we should carefully preserve, while others should
be re-recorded. A special series of discs sometimes concerns the techniques
of one's work. Everyone in his everyday work unconsciously creates a
collection of such discs, which he uses for the needs of his profession.
Beside these recordings are others whose contents are without sense:
they do not correspond either to needs or facts. This category includes for
example anecdotes and what seems to the speaker to be witty conversation.
Interior observation of this phenomenon would reveal a whole repertoire
of such records. A discovery like this would offer us the opportunity of
working to control the release of a particular type of recording, and so try
to eliminate it completely.
For that, we must first start to distinguish these from useful discs which
have some purpose. This is done by analysis of their contents, and by the
inner 'taste' which causes them to be played, as well as by the characteristic
intonation that they give to the voice. Thereafter, we must try to catch the
exact moment of their release. It is in that precise moment — we shall see
later on why this is so — that it is possible to control these recordings and
eliminate those which are useless.
[/quote]
9. Perhaps the coming Wave will activate DNA and produce a "hyperkinetic-sensate" state of self-remembering or greater access to our subconscious. This sudden "hyperkenetic-sensate" state may, for those who have not prepared for it, become "post transformational trauma and confusion" (http://cassiopaea.org/2010/05/18/the-wave-chapter-25-a-walk-in-nature-among-the-names-of-god-where-we-have-an-interview-with-the-vampire-and-discover-a-cosmic-egg/).
Perhaps preparation prior to the full impact of the Wave may as the C's say make it “smoother” to make the transition to our new "state" or "density". Storing good clean oil and cleaning our lamps as much as possible before the full impact of the Wave arrives may be crucial.
Mucho Gusto,
goyacobol
Thanks for this session, tons of work ahead for me and so little time left, I think I need a cigarette now 
:)
.
