Session 28 May 2013

[Approaching Infinity]

I guess my question is where does consciousness exist. Like you "I think that matter and consciousness (or experience) are tied together." but are they so tied together that they have no separate existence? The C's seem to indicate memories from past lives are stored in our subconscious.

I don't think consciousness exists in a 'place' the way physical objects do. I think the psi evidence suggests that mind is a nonlocal phenomenon. Maybe think about it this way. If mathematics is universally true (and I think it is), then where do mathematical objects (rules, numbers) exist? They need to be accessible from anywhere in the universe. That is, they're everywhere, accessible nonlocally by whatever intelligence has the consciousness necessary to access them. And that implies that our universe truly is a UNIverse, it is ONE, unified. It's not like one part of it can be separate and different in kind from any other part. And just like our own consciousness unifies all our experiences (e.g., individual sensations get combined into one 'gestalt' image), Cosmic Mind unifies all the parts of the universe.

I think it is very possible that atoms have some form of consciousness but humans are much more complex in structure to the point of collecting memories. Do atoms have memory? I don't know. Then there are supposed to be sub-atomic particles too. Do they have memories and learn from their experience? Again, I don't know.

Whitehead and Rupert Sheldrake would say yes. ;) Their memory takes the form of habits, e.g., atoms tend to behave in certain ways because they have done so before many times. They 'remember' via morphic resonance with other things similar to them, and with their own past. But it's only with higher forms of life that memory is a conscious process. Memory is what accounts for the persistence of things, whether in a single life cycle, or all life cycles of a particular 'species'.

Is one iron atom different from another iron atom because it has a different experience?

I think so. But if we think about 'soul pools' (as in animals and OPs), maybe the individuals are even more connected on that level? After all, iron atoms have more in common than two golden retrievers. In Sheldrake's terminology, their morphic resonance with each other is stronger.

Do atoms have mental poles? I do not know the answer. Wow, you have me thinking (with a hammer?). I think my mental pole is getting bent.

I think they must, otherwise we run into the problem of 'magical emergence' (poof! voila! mentality emerges where it didn't exist before). That's one of the arguments for panpsychism.

I only used the word realm as a place-holder so to speak for where the consciousness might exist if it can be separate from the mind/machine. I believe I am attempting to re-think my ideas about "soul" and what does "group soul" mean and perhaps their relationship to consciousness.

Gurdjieff seems to speak of a permanence or imperishability for the man who attains his own "I" by "conscious labor and intentional suffering". If this "I" is imperishable then "where" does this imperishable "I" formed by "conscious" efforts exist?

I've had those Gurdjieff quotes in mind for a while now. I'm reading up on the 'survival' research and philosophy at the moment (just getting started really), so I haven't really developed any solid ideas yet. But at the moment, I think it might have to do with hyperdimensional states. Whatever 'survives' or is 'imperishable' seems to me to be an even more organized form of information (e.g., our personalities). If it's true that animals don't truly reincarnate (i.e., they have a group soul), and that reincarnation is possible for humans, that suggests humans have more 'power', their information is more stable, without the need for a physical body. We're more 'individual', more 'specific' (or at least, we can be, if we put in the work). So maybe by virtue of our complexity, and the more ordered information that results from self-observation (attention brings order, again with evidence from psi) means that that information can persist in a non-material form.

In terms of densities, 5D is the recycling zone for 2D, 3D, and 4D. Why not 1D? Maybe 1D's mental pole is too negligible. The only way an electron 'survives' is by the information it contributes to the collective 'electron morphic field,' i.e., it persists only as memory. 2D survives, but only as species, not as individuals. There's not enough mental information. At 3D an individual can survive as itself. 4D is probably even more specific. All these densities have a material component. 5D is the first purely non-physical density, so I'd guess that that is the lowest level at which such 'imperishable souls' can exist. And maybe 6D is the realm of group souls, and other stuff. Like I said, I haven't totally thought it all through at this point.

 

[sitting]

If this is what you mean then I think you are saying you should take it one step further and ask what this stored information "does" or what is it's function, or what is the purpose of the "information arranged by truth"?

It makes think you could take it one step further and ask what is the nature of the one who created the "truth" even if it is "unknowable" at least for now.

Actually I was running the other way. :)



I was thinking maybe knowing the effects is about as much as we can hope for. And attempts to know it's essence simply beyond our comprehension. And your further suggestion of tracing the who created it is like...forgetaboutit! :)

 

[Windmill knight]

That's an interesting quote. In Irreducible Mind, Edward Kelly writes:

Something within us, a sort of cosmogenic, world-generating, or virtual-reality system, is continuously updating and projecting an overall model of the perceptual environment and our position within it, guided by very limited samplings of the available sensory information … Neuroscientist Rodolfo Llinas and his co-workers have even advanced the view, which I believe is profoundly correct, that dreaming, far from being an odd and incidental part of our mental life, represents the fundamental form of this projective activity. Ordinary perceptual synthesis, on this inverted view of things, amounts to oneiric (dreamlike) activity constrained by sensory input … (p. 40)

Scale that up, and maybe the universe is the materialized 'dream' of Cosmic Mind?

That's funny. I just had an EE session and when I finished I thought precisely of that quote and went to look for it. Then I read your post, which you must have written very close to the time I was thinking about that. Talk about the Cosmic Mind! ;)

 

[goyacobol]

sitting,

If this is what you mean then I think you are saying you should take it one step further and ask what this stored information "does" or what is it's function, or what is the purpose of the "information arranged by truth"?

It makes think you could take it one step further and ask what is the nature of the one who created the "truth" even if it is "unknowable" at least for now.

Actually I was running the other way. :)



I was thinking maybe knowing the effects is about as much as we can hope for. And attempts to know it's essence simply beyond our comprehension. And your further suggestion of tracing the who created it is like...forgetaboutit! :)

I always have trouble forgetting in the sense it is still on the back burner or in my subconscious. I feel your pain. This is a lot to think about and put together. I hope you don't mind if I just say something like think about the "The Third Man". It seems like it is always that something we don't quite ever see in the background that has us mystified. I am the curious sort I admit so if you want to put the unknown on the back burner I think that's fine. I am still telling myself to "Wait and see".

Thank you for the valued input :),

goyacobol

 

[monotonic]

I have been thinking about how becoming aware could be described as a process of bringing the inner condition to "match" the outer reality. This meaning is reflected in the phrase "give everything it's due". Applying this to a conscious program, we see that the algorithm must "match" with the nature of the inputs and outputs of the program. Perhaps it could be thought of as holographic. Through reasoning, inspiration and curiosity, the program could begin to interface with the world beyond its sensors and outputs, and this would still be a growing "reflection" of the outer environment, with the sensors and outputs being only a material limitation.

This would be objectivity. But what if we don't want our inner condition to match the outer reality? What if the outer reality is nasty? Then we work on creating a new reality. So there's objectivity in the sense of being aware of, and coming to know, objective truth as it is currently manifesting in reality. But there's also the creativity of embodying new truths, that exist only as potentials.

This is a distinct category of mechanisms. You are talking about the consciousness program rewriting itself. You are talking about changes in the arrangement of information that makes up the program, presumably to increase the level of truth. The question is, is truth and information embedded at a level more fundamental than resonance and energy? I suppose the Word must have come before the Circle.

So we absorb Truth and write it into our conscious program.

I keep thinking of the idea of resonance, and how resonators are able to connect across very large distances, and wonder if there is a connection to the way a conscious program can expand even through material limitations, if the necessary effort is applied. Effort strengthens the resonant effect, and at full resonance energy passes freely through the intervening medium with little indication; this is mathematical. This seems to connect with the idea of Will.

Maybe the medium is nonlocal? Free will would be choosing which potential to resonate with.

Yes, that is the idea behind the consciousness program; becoming aware, it can make any choice, and this determines to a limited extent the energies it will encounter. Free will implies a level of control over the writing of one's program. Of which medium is the aspect of rewriting one's program involved in? The rewriting after all is another way one chooses to direct one's energies, altering the correspondence between the inner and outer realities. Perhaps this is its own category of resonance, as it takes place within the feedback loop - in the "inner space".

Resonance is also a way of organizing information. Information can be encoded in the vibration envelope of a resonance. So resonance connects us in more ways than energetically; it provides a conduit for information.

So, maybe this matches with some of the concepts of truth, will, and other things?

So maybe truth arranges information by resonance?

What is the mechanism by which information is arranged? I had the impression that Truth is simply corresponding bits of information, and corresponding information has a tendency to form patterns/organization. Perhaps once a basic level of organization is formed, it becomes compatible with a larger level of organizations. I wonder about the "exponential" nature of self-growth in mathematical terms. If you have self^N, then N can be seen as the number of dimensions or variables you are aware of (think of volume in N dimensional space). I wonder if there is a fractal pattern to information, with discrete "units" of organization.

If you are limited to a set of discrete units, the possible frequencies within that set are limited. Your wavelength cannot be longer than the total number of units, and not smaller than 2 of those units. Fractional wavelengths are not possible; every wavelength is a factor of units. If information is discrete, then this must apply to it. There must the the unique frequencies of prime numbers, and frequencies being only a combination of other frequencies. So considering this, does it tell us something about the nature of waves?

 

[sitting]

sitting,

If this is what you mean then I think you are saying you should take it one step further and ask what this stored information "does" or what is it's function, or what is the purpose of the "information arranged by truth"?

It makes think you could take it one step further and ask what is the nature of the one who created the "truth" even if it is "unknowable" at least for now.

Actually I was running the other way. :)



I was thinking maybe knowing the effects is about as much as we can hope for. And attempts to know it's essence simply beyond our comprehension. And your further suggestion of tracing the who created it is like...forgetaboutit! :)

I always have trouble forgetting in the sense it is still on the back burner or in my subconscious. I feel your pain. This is a lot to think about and put together. I hope you don't mind if I just say something like think about the "The Third Man". It seems like it is always that something we don't quite ever see in the background that has us mystified. I am the curious sort I admit so if you want to put the unknown on the back burner I think that's fine. I am still telling myself to "Wait and see".

Thank you for the valued input :),

goyacobol

I think I made it all sound too black and white and that is clearly not the case. Nor was it my true intent. I have this bad habit (from my commodity trading days) of being too curt. It is not a good thing, especially when communicating with others through text only. I meant no offense.

And yes, I will keep the points you raised in mind and consider them with care. :)

 

[OpenHeartMonk]

(There must be truth for a lie to exist.)

classic duality.. points to an inherent delusion

 

[OpenHeartMonk]

Session Date: May 28th 2013
Q: (L) Which reminds me... What is the nature and function of the human capacity for belief?
A: Automatic pattern recognition software run amok.

excellent Q&A

what runs software?

Computer software is run by hardware. A biologically-based computer might be called wetware by some science fiction or cyberpunk writers. If those terms both seem too materialistic to describe human psychology, perhaps a more spiritually-minded analyst could use a term like "soulware"?

perhaps the central nervous system of the human instrument is the physical 'computer' on which belief (automatic pattern recognition) software runs..

I am not sure though that what runs the software is of paramount importance. For example, some Windows software might be run on a Windows PC, or the same software could be run on a Mac that is running a Windows emulator progam. I think for most purposes we would be more interested in what kind of outputs we get from the inputs, and what the software is doing on a functional level to get to those outputs from those inputs, rather than whether it is a Mac or a PC, or what elements the circuitry is made from.

well i thought it was interesting that Laura asked this question, and found cass' answer instructive.

like all man-made physical computer hardware, we know the human instrument rots after soul evacuation (death)

so i wonder sometimes, why bother feeding a system that is destined for destruction? it seems like a lot of wasted effort, and beliefs based on fragmented knowledge can tie up a person's essence processing it over and over and over again. not to mention issues of belief projection.. oh my!

 

[Hashhashin]

Hi Laura and co.

I found this article: http://phys.org/news/2013-05-comprehensive-analysis-impact-spherules-theory.html that states the discovery of cometary impact 12,800 years ago. The interesting thing is 12,800yrs is almost exactly half a precession.....yet more evidence supporting yours, and the C's, information regarding our history.

 

[mkrnhr]

Hi Laura and co.

I found this article: http://phys.org/news/2013-05-comprehensive-analysis-impact-spherules-theory.html that states the discovery of cometary impact 12,800 years ago. The interesting thing is 12,800yrs is almost exactly half a precession.....yet more evidence supporting yours, and the C's, information regarding our history.

This is a very good continuation on the work described in R. Firestone, A. West & S. Warwick-Smith's "The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes: How a Stone-Age Comet Changed the Course of World Culture" (_http://www.amazon.com/The-Cycle-Cosmic-Catastrophes-Stone-Age/dp/1591430615/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370481968&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=cyclic+catastrophes+firestone) that relates to the Carolina Bays and the megafauna extinction. It is described in Chapter 3 of The Horn of Moses book.
The actual paper "Evidence for deposition of 10 million tonnes of impact spherules across four continents 12,800 y ago" by Wittke et al. is accessible here: _http://www.pnas.org/content/110/23/E2088

Edit: The PNAS paper is not freely accessible but copies can be found here and there in the internet.

 

[Divide by Zero]

I am not sure though that what runs the software is of paramount importance. For example, some Windows software might be run on a Windows PC, or the same software could be run on a Mac that is running a Windows emulator progam. I think for most purposes we would be more interested in what kind of outputs we get from the inputs, and what the software is doing on a functional level to get to those outputs from those inputs, rather than whether it is a Mac or a PC, or what elements the circuitry is made from.

well i thought it was interesting that Laura asked this question, and found cass' answer instructive.

like all man-made physical computer hardware, we know the human instrument rots after soul evacuation (death)

so i wonder sometimes, why bother feeding a system that is destined for destruction? it seems like a lot of wasted effort, and beliefs based on fragmented knowledge can tie up a person's essence processing it over and over and over again. not to mention issues of belief projection.. oh my!

We feed the system because we are here for some reason. Despite the interface being an "accessory" of the soul, there is something that the soul learns from interacting here. If we go to discover Mars with a robot, does that mean that keeping the robot working is not needed?

I guess it comes to this question: Can the soul - the software, run without hardware? To run the soul (software) on Earth (like in Mal7's analogy, Windows OS), requires hardware and some emulation (like the Mac emulator) that also requires hardware.

That is why diet and health are so important. Sure, you can run software on a computer that crashes or has bugs, but the hardware bugs can and will cause corruption in the software!

 

[WIN 52]

Q: (Perceval) 8.35 billion?

They're so far wide of the mark...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

As of today, it is estimated to number 7.088 billion by the United States Census Bureau (USCB). The USCB estimates that the world population exceeded 7 billion on March 12, 2012. According to a separate estimate by the United Nations Population Fund, it reached this milestone on October 31, 2011. [...]

...and apparently always have been...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

There is no estimation for the exact day or month the world's population surpassed one or two billion. The days of three and four billion were not officially noted, but the International Database of the United States Census Bureau places them in July 1959 and April 1974. The United Nations did determine, and celebrate, the "Day of 5 Billion" on July 11, 1987, and the "Day of 6 Billion" on October 12, 1999. The "Day of 7 Billion" was declared by the Population Division of the United Nations to be October 31, 2011.

...that I'm thinking we have nothing to fear from their 'Total Information Awareness' obsession! All that data to hand and they can't even get the basic numbers more or less right

The point was never, of course, to 'know absolutely everything about everybody then watch their every single move'... the herd is finely controlled by being induced to believe that they know absolutely every move we make and have all-seeing eyes that report us to central command at the first sign of dissent. After that, the masses self-regulate.

It likely is a result of some sort of breeding program for some STS plan for the Wave's arrival. The difference is an official position versus an actual head count.

For me, this answers a few questions I have been asking for 45 years, or so, about the roll my existence here has played out in this physical walk. But there are always more questions. Possibly this STS plan will backfire/has already backfired?

There also always needs to be a balance of STO and STS here and in 4D, apparently! Does that mean all souled beings will move to 4D? In a way, that would also kind of be a balance. This is a one in 300,000+ year event, we should be happy and excited not doom and gloomy.

It seems that people(souled beings) will have the opportunity to catch the wave from a non physical state of being as well as physical. I guess that is where the standing without flinching comes into play. Treat the lamp with care while it holds your flame so your flame will cast a bright light. "The truth will set you free"......

 

[piliangie]

MUCHO GUSTO! WITH A LOT OF PLEASURE!! OR MAYBE IT WAS A PLEASURE! TO BE WITH ALL OF YOU...OR MAY BE BECAUSE WE ARE IN THE
FORUM MANY SPANISH SPEAKERS HAHAHAH AND JUST SAID HELLO! :) NAAAA JUST WONDERING

 

[mkrnhr]

Hi piliangie, When you write in capital letters (in English) it means you are yelling at people. Just so you know for your future posts.

 

[sitting]

We feed the system because we are here for some reason. Despite the interface being an "accessory" of the soul, there is something that the soul learns from interacting here.

I think we exist primarily as an instrument through which the universe experiences itself. For the universe to know itself. To actualize some of it's infinite potential. In a sense, "all there is is lessons" applies to the universe itself as well.

Castaneda used a rather unflattering term to describe this. He said "gluttony" was the reason the universe created such a vast array of sentient beings. In order to devour their experiences at life's end. That term (gluttony) has always made me uncomfortable...as it strikes being borderline blasphemous. I would've preferred something like "experiential maximization" instead.