Session 28 November 2009

[Justin]

Is the DMSA protocol that was referenced in the session based on Cutler's information?

I think the best approach is to do a thorough research, checking several sources to get familiarized with the side effects, what to expect, how to minimize side effects, checking other people's experience with it, etc. Is important to have in mind that this is no supplement, it is a drug, so one has to be very careful. Every person is different and it also depends on individual mercury or other heavy metal levels. So ideally, there should be some guidance by a health care provider.

I'm trying the DMSA only now, after an year and half of serious detoxing. I had the majority of the side effects: rashes, nausea, gastrointestinal problems, weird introversion symptoms which typically occurs when there is mercury mobilized from the brain, etc. I had 22 mercury fillings which were replaced with no precautions at all a few years ago. I remember even swallowing chunks of the mercury fillings during the procedure (on accident!). I used to eat a lot of tuna as well, so I'm very mercurial . This without mentioning the average heavy metal pollution that surround us...

I'm taking 400mg every other day and I'm looking forward to take a one or two week break. I'm using DMSA from Supersmart and for the time being, I'm following that protocol:

_http://www.supersmart.com/en--DMSA-100-mg--Detoxification--0248

Here is some info, FWIW:

_http://spinelife.stores.yahoo.net/dmtrpr.html
_http://www.vrp.com/articles.aspx?ProdID=1697
_http://naturalcandidacleansing.com/Mercury_Poisoning_Symptoms.html
_http://www.mercuryexposure.org/index.php?article_id=238

Hope this helps.

Thanks Psyche! I've been detoxing without a chelation chemical and have had some weird neurological symptoms. Two months ago I started having adrenal fatigue symptoms as well. I've been detoxing for about 9 months now and I guess I've mobilized some stored mercury, because these symptoms have been getting worse, though they come and go and vary in intensity.

Although I have not had any tests done for mercury, I'm pretty sure my levels are high. I've had numerous amalgams replaced without any precautions at all, and at the time didn't even know they were dangerous so I probably swallowed some bits during the procedures. Three years ago I had 12 amalgams removed with some precautions, but I still inhaled some of the dust and vapors that were created by the drilling. I have a habit of grinding my teeth while sleeping, and had amalgams over much of the biting surface area of my rear teeth, so I probably ingested a good amount over the years. I used to eat tuna a lot, and up to 3 years ago had been eating it regularly since childhood. For 12 years I received allergy shots every week. This was starting in the late 70's, so there is a good chance that thimerosal was used as a preservative.

I'm very wary of the chelation chemicals. I have some DMSA and tried one 250mg dose and had a bad reaction to it. I had weird visual disturbances and it felt like something was squeezing my brain. Alpha lipoic acid makes me feel worse overall, but has a delayed effect so it took me awhile to figure this out. It actually makes me feel better the day I take it, and then 2-3 days later I feel worse. I assume this is due to it mobilizing mercury. So far I'm not ready to try a chelation protocol. I still use caffeine, which is a big no-no with adrenal fatigue, and I haven't given up gluten. I did give it up for 6 weeks and felt no improvement, so it's tough to give it up completely. Also, I need to learn more about chelation and find a doctor who understands it.

Good luck with the heavy metal detox! If you have experiences with mercury detox that might be educational for others, it would be great to hear about them. :)

 

[truth seeker]

My understanding is anticipation involves attachment. So expecting an attack and watching for it, is not anticipation if you are not attached to it. By attached I mean invested or fixated on it, or giving it emotional weight or significance.
Technically you could expect and watch for attacks, and if you where feeling quite emotional about this (fearful or paranoid, taking it all personally) you would in essence be anticipating.....because of your emotional attachment (which is your mind usurping emotional energy from the emotional centre) to it.
This seems to be the key difference osit.

Does this make sense? My understanding of this is a work in progress mind you. I'm still trying to factor in the desire to control the outcome into this mind.....anticipation seems to involve a desire to control the outcome at some level. Presumably to try and releave the tension of the emotional attachment? Hmm, hopefully I'm not wondering off into left field here.

Hi RedFox,

That definitely brought some clarity and AI's explanation further nailed it down. Thanks much!

 

[Bluestar]

Another question I have regarding heavy metal detoxing is, if one has silver mercury teeth filling in the mouth, can we start heavy metal detoxing or is it all for not until we rid the fillings?

I've been detoxing for about 15 months now and only last month did I begin the process of having my mercury fillings removed. I knew I needed to feel better all over in general before I took the risk of stirring that mess up. In fact, I had the second one removed this morning and will go in Friday to have the porcelain molded one installed. Next week I'll have two appointments and do another. I've got appointments scheduled into February just to get this job done. At the end, I'll have to detox all the novocaine!

Thank you for sharing your experience. I have some zeolite tincture and will start to use it slowly. In the late 1980's I had the opportunity to visit with Hannah Kroeger in Boulder Colorado. It was an interesting session. She used her pendulum and told me I had dioxin poisoning. I was flabbergasted. For the life of me I could not figure how I was poisoned by dioxins. Then I remembered reading that in the 1960's in the US they used dioxin on apples & other fruits & veggies. Maybe that is how? Not much I could do about the hows other then stick as best I can to organics. I used the tincture she sold me, but I am sure that it was not enough to get rid of the toxins. So again thanks for all the info in diet & health.

It is preferable to get the mercury fillings removed first. Otherwise the chelation might cause mercury from the fillings to leak into your blood. If you cannot get your fillings removed soon and still want to detox you could have a closer look at MSM combined with some Vitamin C. MSM is a mild chelator and has many other benefits. It has little to no negative side effects.

Unfortunately I can not afford to get the fillings removed yet. No insurance and was quoted over $2000.00 to have 4 large & 2 small ones fixed. They are all over 20 years old. When I do get to have them changed, I wonder if there is a method that can be applied to lessen the amounts swallowed? Also there is a chelation doctor in the city I live in and will hopefully get the chance to work with him.

Thanks!

 

[Mike]

Unfortunately I can not afford to get the fillings removed yet. No insurance and was quoted over $2000.00 to have 4 large & 2 small ones fixed. They are all over 20 years old. When I do get to have them changed, I wonder if there is a method that can be applied to lessen the amounts swallowed? Also there is a chelation doctor in the city I live in and will hopefully get the chance to work with him.

Hi Bluestar,
You might have a look at this link http://www.iaomt.org/index.asp that was mentioned in 'The UltraMind Solution' for finding a dentist to remove the 'silver' fillings. The note from the book, "Removal of dental mercury or silver fillings should be performed only by a biological dentist." Maybe you can call a dentist in your area from the site and get the answers to some of your questions.

 

[Bluestar]

Unfortunately I can not afford to get the fillings removed yet. No insurance and was quoted over $2000.00 to have 4 large & 2 small ones fixed. They are all over 20 years old. When I do get to have them changed, I wonder if there is a method that can be applied to lessen the amounts swallowed? Also there is a chelation doctor in the city I live in and will hopefully get the chance to work with him.

Hi Bluestar,
You might have a look at this link http://www.iaomt.org/index.asp that was mentioned in 'The UltraMind Solution' for finding a dentist to remove the 'silver' fillings. The note from the book, "Removal of dental mercury or silver fillings should be performed only by a biological dentist." Maybe you can call a dentist in your area from the site and get the answers to some of your questions.

Thanks, I found a dentist in the city my mom lives in.

 

[Nienna]

Thank you Approaching Infinity for the explanation.
I couldnt grasp this 'anticipation concept'.
It gives me a lot of thinking now.

Maybe this will help, too, on figuring out what is meant by anticipation. Anticipation and Non-Anticipation

Ah, I just love the Cassiopedia and the Cassiopaea Glossary

 

[Sonrisa]

A: The wave is coming, you are teaching people to surf it instead of being dragged under and out to stormy seas.

Q: (L) You once said that the wave was something like "hyperkinetic sensate". And I've often wondered if that means that it's something that massively amplifies whatever is inside an individual? And if that were the case and they were full of a lot of unpleasant, painful, miserable feelings, repressed and suppressed thoughts and so forth, and something that was hyperkinetic sensate amplified all of that, what would it do to that individual? I mean, can you imagine any of us in our worst state of feeling yucky and then having that amplified a bazillion times? If it was bad stuff inside you, you would implode!

A: Soul smashing!

Does this mean that anyone who hasn't cleansed all, or most, of the "unpleasant, painful, miserable feelings, repressed and suppressed thoughts and so forth" from themselves by the time the Wave comes, is going to have their soul smashed? EVERYONE? So, even if someone is on the STO path, but hasn't cleansed enough of that stuff from them, they are going to have their soul smashed?

What I think it might mean is that it's important to be prepared to deal with our inner psychological world by becoming more conscious of those hidden forces and motives which reside in the subconscious. If we deal with this as the Wave approaches by doing the Work, the readings, doing the breathing program consistently and dealing with our psychological “stuff” as the images and feelings of past traumas get released from the body and surfaces into our conscious awareness (which also parallels the physical detox) then it won’t be so much of a surprise when (assuming this to be a very real possibility) the wave of hyperkinetic sensate amplifies these feelings. Since we have already dealt with some of our suppressed emotions/learning how to deal with them, then we’ll be in a much better “able state” to make proper choices to do the right thing and to not go with those entropic forces and emotions that can play us from within and without and take us down if we allow it and which can destroy our spirit.

I think that as a consequence of one single blind moment of passion or fear we can lose permanent contact with our essential selves and our potential individuality which includes the denial of the reality of the higher worlds (of Being) because of this loss of contact.

Carlos Castaneda in his book Tales Of Power talks about the tonal and nagual and possibly this soul smashing is the destruction of the tonal and it’s loss of contact with the nagual. So it may be that “cleaning the tonal” is a kind of psychological/physical detox so it can be in an able state to receive and be absorbed into the nagual. I guess if the tonal is living in lies and delusion then the potential soul can get “smashed” when the possibility of the tonal integrating with the nagual is no longer possible.

Excerpts from Tales Of Power by Carlos Castaneda on the tonal and nagual:

The tonal is everything we know ... and that includes not only us persons but everything in our world. The moment we breathe the first gasp of air we also breathe in the power of the tonal. So, it is proper to say the the tonal of a human being is intimately tied to his birth. ... The tonal begins at birth and ends at death'. '... the tonal makes up the rules by which it apprehends the world. So in a manner of speaking, it creates the world' although it 'doesn't create a thing'. The tonal is an island. There is a personal tonal for every one of us and there is the collective tonal of the times which unites us.

'The nagual is the part of us which we do not deal with at all. The nagual is the part of us for which there is no description - no words, no names, no feelings, no knowledge'. 'The mind, the soul, even god are all items of the tonal. The nagual on the other hand is at the service of the warrior. It can be witnessed but it cannot be talked about'. The nagual is there ... surrounding the island, there where power hovers' (Castaneda 1979 124).

[...]"'Indians are the losers of our time. Their downfall began with the Spaniards and now under the reign of the descendants of the Indians have lost everything. It is not an exaggeration to say Indians have lost their tonal." (Castaneda 1979 138)

'The tonal is very vulnerable. It cannot withstand mistreatment. The white man, from the day he set foot on this land has systematically destroyed not only the Indian tonal of the time, but also the personal tonal of every Indian. One can easily surmise that for the poor average Indian the reign of the while man has been sheer hell. And yet the irony is that for another kind of Indian it has been sheer bliss'.

'Who are you talking about, don Juan? What kind of Indian is that'?

'For the sorcerer the Conquest was the challenge of a lifetime. They were the only ones who were not destroyed by it, but adapted to it and used it to their ultimate advantage. After the tonal of the time and the personal tonal of every Indian was obliterated, the sorcerers found themselves holding on to the only thing left uncontested, the nagual. In other words their tonal took refuge in their nagual. The men of knowledge of today are a product of those conditions'. (Castaneda 1979 139)

Thank you, Kenlee, that helps my understanding of what was meant. I'm definitely keeping going with the breathing/ meditation program!

 

[dugdeep]

A: Keep on the course. Did you ever wonder if some of the "failure" of the other side might not be a result of the energy you are generating?

It's quite amazing to have the C's say this as this actually mirrors what I had been thinking last week. I remember having the thought that perhaps people doing the EE program are indeed having an effect on the planet when that U.S. Preventive Services Task Force announced their finding that mammograms actually cause more harm than good. It seemed to me that people were starting to objectively look at the pathocracy surrounding us and calling the cancer industry on their lies.

Great session, thanks to all involved.

 

[anart]

I've had some serious "mental cleansing" going on the last month or so - ever since I started doing the EE-round breathing through the nose I guess!!! I'm hoping that I'll reach "the other side" and stability soon and can help in some suitable way with the valuable work you guys are doing. Right now I'm feeling too fragile to do anything "useful". :(

If you want to talk about this in the swamp, it might help. I know that the times I've been struggling, it has helped enormously to just talk about it to the network. In one instance, just talking about it and getting feedback helped pop me out of what was becoming a bit of a 'wallow in misery' situation, emotionally.

Just remember that we're here to help, if you feel up to it. Also remember that this too shall pass, and you'll be stronger for it when it does.

 

[Buddy]

A: The wave is coming, you are teaching people to surf it instead of being dragged under and out to stormy seas.

Q: (L) You once said that the wave was something like "hyperkinetic sensate". And I've often wondered if that means that it's something that massively amplifies whatever is inside an individual? And if that were the case and they were full of a lot of unpleasant, painful, miserable feelings, repressed and suppressed thoughts and so forth, and something that was hyperkinetic sensate amplified all of that, what would it do to that individual? I mean, can you imagine any of us in our worst state of feeling yucky and then having that amplified a bazillion times? If it was bad stuff inside you, you would implode!

A: Soul smashing!

Does this mean that anyone who hasn't cleansed all, or most, of the "unpleasant, painful, miserable feelings, repressed and suppressed thoughts and so forth" from themselves by the time the Wave comes, is going to have their soul smashed? EVERYONE? So, even if someone is on the STO path, but hasn't cleansed enough of that stuff from them, they are going to have their soul smashed?

What I think it might mean is that it's important to be prepared to deal with our inner psychological world by becoming more conscious of those hidden forces and motives which reside in the subconscious. If we deal with this as the Wave approaches by doing the Work, the readings, doing the breathing program consistently and dealing with our psychological “stuff” as the images and feelings of past traumas get released from the body and surfaces into our conscious awareness (which also parallels the physical detox) then it won’t be so much of a surprise when (assuming this to be a very real possibility) the wave of hyperkinetic sensate amplifies these feelings. Since we have already dealt with some of our suppressed emotions/learning how to deal with them, then we’ll be in a much better “able state” to make proper choices to do the right thing and to not go with those entropic forces and emotions that can play us from within and without and take us down if we allow it and which can destroy our spirit.

I think that as a consequence of one single blind moment of passion or fear we can lose permanent contact with our essential selves and our potential individuality which includes the denial of the reality of the higher worlds (of Being) because of this loss of contact.

Carlos Castaneda in his book Tales Of Power talks about the tonal and nagual and possibly this soul smashing is the destruction of the tonal and it’s loss of contact with the nagual. So it may be that “cleaning the tonal” is a kind of psychological/physical detox so it can be in an able state to receive and be absorbed into the nagual. I guess if the tonal is living in lies and delusion then the potential soul can get “smashed” when the possibility of the tonal integrating with the nagual is no longer possible.

Excerpts from Tales Of Power by Carlos Castaneda on the tonal and nagual:

The tonal is everything we know ... and that includes not only us persons but everything in our world. The moment we breathe the first gasp of air we also breathe in the power of the tonal. So, it is proper to say the the tonal of a human being is intimately tied to his birth. ... The tonal begins at birth and ends at death'. '... the tonal makes up the rules by which it apprehends the world. So in a manner of speaking, it creates the world' although it 'doesn't create a thing'. The tonal is an island. There is a personal tonal for every one of us and there is the collective tonal of the times which unites us.

'The nagual is the part of us which we do not deal with at all. The nagual is the part of us for which there is no description - no words, no names, no feelings, no knowledge'. 'The mind, the soul, even god are all items of the tonal. The nagual on the other hand is at the service of the warrior. It can be witnessed but it cannot be talked about'. The nagual is there ... surrounding the island, there where power hovers' (Castaneda 1979 124).

[...]"'Indians are the losers of our time. Their downfall began with the Spaniards and now under the reign of the descendants of the Indians have lost everything. It is not an exaggeration to say Indians have lost their tonal." (Castaneda 1979 138)

'The tonal is very vulnerable. It cannot withstand mistreatment. The white man, from the day he set foot on this land has systematically destroyed not only the Indian tonal of the time, but also the personal tonal of every Indian. One can easily surmise that for the poor average Indian the reign of the while man has been sheer hell. And yet the irony is that for another kind of Indian it has been sheer bliss'.

'Who are you talking about, don Juan? What kind of Indian is that'?

'For the sorcerer the Conquest was the challenge of a lifetime. They were the only ones who were not destroyed by it, but adapted to it and used it to their ultimate advantage. After the tonal of the time and the personal tonal of every Indian was obliterated, the sorcerers found themselves holding on to the only thing left uncontested, the nagual. In other words their tonal took refuge in their nagual. The men of knowledge of today are a product of those conditions'. (Castaneda 1979 139)

Thanks Sonrisa and Kenlee for those posts! I particularly enjoy reading the C's and Castaneda integrated like that!

 

[Mjolnir]

Thanks, Approaching Infinity for the clarification. ;)

positive anticipation of positive event: not really anticipation, but awareness of probabilities without attachment. Things are done for their own sake. Has to do with authenticity. E.g. A "christian" who gives to the poor because they are "supposed to" in order to "go to heaven", and not for any feeling of empathy and assessment of the law of three. The future unfolds naturally.

I think that it's when C's tell us "Have Faith".

 

[broken.english]

Good luck with the heavy metal detox! If you have experiences with mercury detox that might be educational for others, it would be great to hear about them. :)

As you ask for personal experiences, here is mine.

My amalgams were removed without appropriate precautions by my former dentist. Then(!) I went to a holistic dentist and had three detox rounds with chlorella and cilantro according to the Klinghardt protocol. Then a longer break after which I continued with MSM and recent addition of Vitamin C. To date I have consumed almost 1 kg of MSM in powder form in teaspoon quantities.

As for side effects I have only two real hard facts: I survived and I never was bedridden. My overall condition is not so bad but as a former consumer of gluten, MSG, aspartame and what have you I am still in need of further detox and have little issues every now and then. With a precondition like mine it is almost impossible to say what exactly causes unpleasant feelings. All I can say is that neither chlorella nor MSM caused any major problems for me.

Regrettably there is controversial information about almost everything.

On chlorella/cilantro: while widely used and recommended in Germany, Cutler remains reserved

On MSM: Cutler says it just stirs up the mercury, a naturopathic lexikon says it is a good chelator and almost identical with DMSA.

I have no means to resolve the controversy. I sincerely respect the work of Cutler. In lack of better information his protocol could be a good choice. Based on my own experience I am very much relaxed about the MSM question though. If I had to decide again I would even start with MSM after amalgam removal due to its other benefits such as an anti-inflammatory effect. As always, I might be wrong.

Music for mercury detox: Mercury Blues (D. Lindley)

 

[Green_Manalishi]

Hi. Don't known if someone has noticed, and talked about the fact that in the last sessions the C's seem to talk less, and it is the persons that are together in the session that do most of the "interaction". Its like you guys are really becoming yourselves in the future, giving the answers by yourselves without less hints by the C's.

 

[truth seeker]

Hi. Don't known if someone has noticed, and talked about the fact that in the last sessions the C's seem to talk less, and it is the persons that are together in the session that do most of the "interaction". Its like you guys are really becoming yourselves in the future, giving the answers by yourselves without less hints by the C's.

Interesting you should say that. What I thought I noticed was that the C's sound more and more like Laura (and possibly the reverse as well). Sort of like they are becoming each other.

 

[Justin]

As you ask for personal experiences, here is mine.

My amalgams were removed without appropriate precautions by my former dentist. Then(!) I went to a holistic dentist and had three detox rounds with chlorella and cilantro according to the Klinghardt protocol. Then a longer break after which I continued with MSM and recent addition of Vitamin C. To date I have consumed almost 1 kg of MSM in powder form in teaspoon quantities.

As for side effects I have only two real hard facts: I survived and I never was bedridden. My overall condition is not so bad but as a former consumer of gluten, MSG, aspartame and what have you I am still in need of further detox and have little issues every now and then. With a precondition like mine it is almost impossible to say what exactly causes unpleasant feelings. All I can say is that neither chlorella nor MSM caused any major problems for me.

Regrettably there is controversial information about almost everything.

On chlorella/cilantro: while widely used and recommended in Germany, Cutler remains reserved

On MSM: Cutler says it just stirs up the mercury, a naturopathic lexikon says it is a good chelator and almost identical with DMSA.

I have no means to resolve the controversy. I sincerely respect the work of Cutler. In lack of better information his protocol could be a good choice. Based on my own experience I am very much relaxed about the MSM question though. If I had to decide again I would even start with MSM after amalgam removal due to its other benefits such as an anti-inflammatory effect. As always, I might be wrong.

Music for mercury detox: Mercury Blues (D. Lindley)

Thanks! I have finished reading Cutler's book and found it to be quite useful. Much of the information he presents is corroborated in other sources, so I do think he generally knows what he is talking about. Some of the information he gives I can confirm via personal experience. The one area where there are not secondary sources that I know of is with regard to his chelation protocol information and chelation agents. I will give his program a try when I'm really to do heavy metal detox. If only I had read his book 10 years ago when it was first published, I could have saved myself a lot of trouble. :)