Session 3 September 2008

[Windmill knight]

Maybe to the channeler that's true, but to generalize it for everyone else is outrageous.

Stephen LaBerge, a sleep scientist will disagree (that lucid dreaming is mainly for entertainment) because according to his research a lot can be gained from lucid dreaming:

1- Overcoming Nightmares
2- Overcoming Phobias
3- Creative Problem Solving
4- Practice & rehearsal for unlimited events

So I guess the C's are wrong on this one

Hi sami. Bear in mind that one of the things that the Cs have been saying repeatedly since the start is that 'all there is is lessons'. In an absolute sense, then, it is true that one can learn with lucid dreaming - like with anything else! But that was not what the question was about, nor the response. It was more about how useful it could be for growth and spiritual development, and the answer "not really" means that it is not very useful.

It's like asking "how useful is TV for learning?". The answer is "Not much, really'. And then a third person says "But wait! The other day I watched this very good show and it got me thinking, so I guess watching TV is good for learning after all!" Well, yeah, everything has potential for being a learning experience, even if just a little. But that's not really the point here.

More to the point: It may be that some people find it easier to manage phobias through lucid dreaming, but I really doubt it would help overcome the real problem, of which phobias are most probably just the symptom.

 

[sami]

Thanks for your reply. I just want to know the truth because I’m fed up of all the lies. even though the C’s have turned my world upside down, my life is still the same. I still go to work, eat my lunch and do the things I used to do. I always suspected that the truth would set me free, but I guess that is just wishful thinking. I’m always on the lookout for the truth, but to be honest I’m a bit lazy and my job and lifestyle doesn’t make it easier. So I depend on the research and conclusions of others, to be spoon fed, which is my vulnerability. To be honest, the C’s have given me a rush and a high, but now it is gone, so I’m back on the lookout mode, hoping to find another source to feed my hunger of the truth. I’m just used to keeping an open mind.

 

[Nienna]

Thanks for your reply. I just want to know the truth because I’m fed up of all the lies. even though the C’s have turned my world upside down, my life is still the same. I still go to work, eat my lunch and do the things I used to do. I always suspected that the truth would set me free, but I guess that is just wishful thinking. I’m always on the lookout for the truth, but to be honest I’m a bit lazy and my job and lifestyle doesn’t make it easier. So I depend on the research and conclusions of others, to be spoon fed, which is my vulnerability. To be honest, the C’s have given me a rush and a high, but now it is gone, so I’m back on the lookout mode, hoping to find another source to feed my hunger of the truth. I’m just used to keeping an open mind.

There is more to this forum than the C's sessions, although they are a part of it. It is also the Work that Gurdjieff and Mouravieff have given us. This is also what the C's have led Laura to uncover through all of her intensive and time consuming investigations and research.

If you are familiar with the Work, then you will know that to just sit and be spoonfed from one "truth" to the next is not even remotely what this forum is about. What the C's, Gurdjieff and Mouravieff have said is that in order to wake up we need to clean our machine. To learn about the programs/buffers that have made us into reaction machines and to learn how to get them under control. To become less a reaction machine and more of a conscious being. To do this requires a LOT of work on the self.

There are a lot of good psychology books in the recommended reading list that give everyone a good idea of how to start Working on the self.

The C's said that all one needs to do to prepare for 4d is to learn all the lessons of 3d which are karmic and simple understandings.

So it is ultimately up to you what you want to do. All there is is lessons. :)

 

[PepperFritz]

Thanks for your reply. I just want to know the truth because I’m fed up of all the lies. even though the C’s have turned my world upside down, my life is still the same. I still go to work, eat my lunch and do the things I used to do. I always suspected that the truth would set me free, but I guess that is just wishful thinking. I’m always on the lookout for the truth, but to be honest I’m a bit lazy and my job and lifestyle doesn’t make it easier. So I depend on the research and conclusions of others, to be spoon fed, which is my vulnerability. To be honest, the C’s have given me a rush and a high, but now it is gone, so I’m back on the lookout mode, hoping to find another source to feed my hunger of the truth. I’m just used to keeping an open mind.

Sounds to me like you're just on the lookout for another "rush and a high" that will feed your "wishful thinking". If you truly had a "hunger for the truth", you would pursue it without excuses. As those of us here who endeavour to follow Gurdjieff's 4th Way teaching have come to realize, "truth" begins with the truth about oneself. As long as you continue to search outside of yourself and "depend on the research and conclusions of others", there will always be someone there to "spoonfeed" you the lies you claim to be "fed up" with. And you will also continue to mis-read other materials the way you have the Cassiopaea transcripts -- emphasizing that which attracts you and fits in with your current belief system, and ignoring the rest.

 

[Joe]

Thanks for your reply. I just want to know the truth because I’m fed up of all the lies. even though the C’s have turned my world upside down, my life is still the same. I still go to work, eat my lunch and do the things I used to do. I always suspected that the truth would set me free, but I guess that is just wishful thinking. I’m always on the lookout for the truth, but to be honest I’m a bit lazy and my job and lifestyle doesn’t make it easier. So I depend on the research and conclusions of others, to be spoon fed, which is my vulnerability. To be honest, the C’s have given me a rush and a high, but now it is gone, so I’m back on the lookout mode, hoping to find another source to feed my hunger of the truth. I’m just used to keeping an open mind.

I think the truth can set you free, but for that to happen we must find some of it and then, as in the parable of the talents, we must multiply it rather than keep it hidden away waiting for someone to give us the next installment. If you love the truth, then you will desire to be useful to it, right? To serve the truth is to add to its existence in as many ways as possible

 

[Adaryn]

Q: (L) Okay. Why do you introduce tonight's adventures with "US is headed for destruction"?

A: Passed the point when anything could possibly be done to change the outcome.

Q: (L) What is this outcome?

A: Increasing inner turmoil. Review what happened in Germany.

Q: (L) Well, what happened in Germany in what period?

A: Towards the end of the war. Hitler's madness and the hatred of the world towards Germany.

Q: (L) Wasn't a pretty picture, was it? (J) In Germany, the rest of the world bombed Germany...

Now, I'm wondering if that 'prediction' applied to a McCain/Palin, or to an Obama configuration? As has been said here, he's not president yet, anything can happen in between to bring chaos and destruction for America and the rest of the world :/

 

[Nević Nenad]

Prayers

You said it like there is some crucial difference between Obama or McCain.
As I can understand it, Cs didn’t specified that point of imminent destruction of America is crossed with Sara Palins choice for vice-president. Or that she has something with that. Though that choice of her maybe could help indirectly Obama to win.

They just said:

A: Passed the point when anything could possibly be done to change the outcome.

As I understand that, point is crossed Obama or no Obama.

 

[Adaryn]

Prayers

You said it like there is some crucial difference between Obama or McCain.

That's not what I meant. In the "grand scheme" of things, there's probably no difference as we're headed towards really bad times anyway.
I was just thinking of all the discussions on Palin, and the idea that she might be a new Hitler.

Q: (L) What is this outcome?
A: Increasing inner turmoil. Review what happened in Germany.
A: Towards the end of the war. Hitler's madness and the hatred of the world towards Germany.

The Palin 'option' certainly fitted the scenario of a "mad Hitler" much better than Obama. So, keeping this quote in mind, I just wonder how it's gonna play out.

 

[Nević Nenad]

Apologies for misunderstood you.

Me too thinks it is interesting times ahead of us. This all looks more and more like film. And it will be even more interesting with Obama. Palin is so obvious :)

 

[M4N4MK1]

i remember reading the c's, that a president would die in office. i mite be wrong.

 

[webglider]

i remember reading the c's, that a president would die in office. i mite be wrong

I remember this quote as well, and I've been unable to find it. I remember the C's saying something to the effect that "There are many ways to die." so the death may not necessarily be a physical death but that of the soul or the ego.

I thought of this when I saw the video of world leaders not shaking hands with Bush, and I thought as I watched it that Bush is indeed dead although he is alive in that his influence, his power is gone.

The video seems to no longer be on the SOTT Newspage though or else I would have provided a link to it.

 

[Craig]

I remember this quote as well, and I've been unable to find it. I remember the C's saying something to the effect that "There are many ways to die." so the death may not necessarily be a physical death but that of the soul or the ego.

They may need another controlled demolition for that...

I thought of this when I saw the video of world leaders not shaking hands with Bush, and I thought as I watched it that Bush is indeed dead although he is alive in that his influence, his power is gone. The video seems to no longer be on the SOTT Newspage though or else I would have provided a link to it.

Take a look at this page.

 

[Erna]

[quote author=webglider]
I thought of this when I saw the video of world leaders not shaking hands with Bush, and I thought as I watched it that Bush is indeed dead although he is alive in that his influence, his power is gone.

The video seems to no longer be on the SOTT Newspage though or else I would have provided a link to it.
[/quote]

Here's a link to it on Youtube: _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6Y_ncOVlDw&eurl=http://dotconnectoruk.blogspot.com/2008/11/bush-snubbed-at-g20-meeting.html

Apart from the fact that no-one is shaking his hand, his behaviour is also strange. It's as if he knows not to reach out to anyone to spare himself possible embarrassment. Makes one wonder what kind of dialogue transpired prior to this behind closed doors.

EDIT: Whoops! Leopher, you beat me to it.

 

[webglider]

Take a look at this page.

There's still something "off" about Bush even with the explantion that he is the host and had already shaken hands, and at the time of his entrance was searching for the mark that indicated his spot in the line.

I don't quite understand why the host would keep his head down, and it did seem that the others were avoiding looking at him.

It seems hard to believe that his self-importance would allow him to blot out the realilty of his country's and the world's opinion of him. But nothing about that man ever coincided with ordinary reality.

Still, he doesn't have much influence anymore. At least I hope not.

 

[spyraal]

I remember this quote as well, and I've been unable to find it. I remember the C's saying something to the effect that "There are many ways to die." so the death may not necessarily be a physical death but that of the soul or the ego.
I thought of this when I saw the video of world leaders not shaking hands with Bush, and I thought as I watched it that Bush is indeed dead although he is alive in that his influence, his power is gone.

Good point Weblinger. This sounds quite plausible when i think of it... Bush is a "politician" and maybe his scripted role will come to lead -by design or miscalculation- to a "political death" who may render him useless for the PTB hierarchy. He already served much of his purpose, and after all the PTB frontmen have a certain "shelf-life". After which, the facade must be changed again for people to continue to hope for "better days", believing that the system will somehow fix itself....

The video link with the world leaders was quite amazing too! Considering the protocols and the notion of "political correctness" that usually exists in such summits among "friends and allies", i can't but wonder how not even one of the other leaders offered his hand to Bush or even gave him a decent stare! He was almost like a ghost. It hard for this event to be a mere and meaningless coincidence... :/

It looked like the other world-leading-puppets were indeed trying to keep a distance from Bush. They all seem to simply ignore him! Such extraordinary conformity in "impolite" reactions is very strange at that level of politics where IMO there a meaning to such "non-gestures". Observing this evident pattern of behaviour i wonder, they were allowed to do so (but such freedoms are unlikely to exist), or they were told to do so? Were they "briefed" on a change of the current status quo during the summit or they were staging a light public "impeachment"? Was it that there was word about Bush's time for being "recycled" or even word to distance themselves from his future (what he is about to do)? Who knows... It is interesting to see how things will evolve..!

:)