Session 30 January 2010

[Darek]

Thank you for the session!

 

[JEEP]

To continue: there is no entry for sociopath in the glossary, but this under psychopathy:

The differentiation between APD (Antisocial Personality Disorder), sociopathy and psychopathy is vague and ambiguous. Most criminals match the APD criteria. Narcissism and psychopathy may also border on each other.

So, again, maybe the true psychopath is a failed OP, but the characteristics of psychopathy can belong to all the other designations, and thus, can apply to all of humanity? It would appear the only defense/immunity to the pervasive infectious sickness of psychopathy is indeed, KNOWLEDGE.

I will say that it is disturbing that some of the defining characteristics of psychopathy mirror those of ADD. But, ADD is, after all, a neurological impairment and as I learned from the characteropath definition entry:

Dr.Lobaczewski refers to characteropathies as character disorders caused by brain tissue damage which play a role as pathological agents in the processes of the genesis of Evil.

[...]In societies with highly developed medical care, we find among the lower grades of elementary school (when tests can be applied), that 5 to 7 per cent of children have suffered brain tissue lesions which cause certain academic or behavioral difficulties. This percentage increases with age. Modern medical care has contributed to a quantitative decrease in such phenomena, but in certain relatively uncivilized countries and during historical times, indications of difficulties caused by such changes are and have been more frequent.

[...]Epilepsy and its many variations constitute the oldest known results of such lesions; it is observed in a relatively small number of persons suffering such damage. Researchers in these matters are more or less unanimous in believing that Julius Caesar, and then later Napoleon Bonaparte, had epileptic seizures.
[...]In most cases, however, epilepsy is an evident ailment, which limits its role as a ponerogenic factor.

In a much larger segment of the bearers of brain tissue damage, the negative deformation of their characters grows in the course of time. It takes on variegated mental pictures, depending upon the properties and localization of these changes, their time of origin, and also the life conditions of the individual after their occurrence. We will call such character disorders - characteropathies. Some characteropathies play an outstanding role as pathological agents in the processes of the genesis of evil.

There is no entry in the glossary for ADD. I can only relate the following. I was seated at a dinner table with a psychiatrist who, in the course of conversation, began describing the characteristics associated with brain damage. I was shocked and alarmed at this information because it sounded like my daughter! I thought, OMG, she's brain damaged! It turns out, she's ADHD and to my mind, many of the characteristics of brain damage are similar to, if not identical to, the characteristics of ADD/ADHD. And there does seem to be an epidemic of ADD in our society, although many question the extent of it.

So, between all the psychopaths, narcissists, sociopaths, characteropaths, and those afflicted by ADD, the human population of this planet is seriously MESSED UP! No wonder we're well on our way to a fatal plunge into a black hole!

 

[JEEP]

Wait a minute! This sheds a new light on the statistics/classifications questions:

The incidence of psychopathy is difficult to measure since not all cases commit crime and essentially never seek mental health services. The common estimates is 4 percent for APD, 2-3 for sociopathy and 1 percent for psychopathy in the American population. Most cases are males. There may be bias of measurement due to women more rarely committing violent crime.

Ok, when it's said that 6% of the population is psychopaths, is that psychopaths alone or does it include the 4% APD and 2-3 sociopathy? Of course, these numbers add up to more than 6%. Does it mean psychopathy has increased from 1% to 6%? That's a scary thought but not really surprising based on current events! And if psychopathy has grown by such an extent, has APD and sociopathy also increased by similar percentages? Disturbing numbers no matter how one looks at it!

 

[Avi]

[quote author=transcript]

(Belibaste) We wanted to know the percentage of psychopaths geographically speaking, like in the US, Israel, UK.

(L) Alright, let's take them one at a time.

(Belibaste) USA?

A: 23 percent.

OMG!

The United States has a total resident population of 308,586,000.
U.S. Census Bureau. _http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html. Retrieved 2008-04-29.
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States


Georgia population = 9,685,744 * 23% = 2,227,721 (approx. # of psychopaths in my home state). Assuming the bulk of the populations in major cities and suburban areas, that's still around one of every 5 or 6 people as a statistical average probability. Even with a very conservative estimate that places a huge segment of the total U.S. population in Texas and California, I could say that one of every ten or twelve people around me could still be potential psychopaths.

That's still a scary thought.

If the Haiti earthquake was an induced earthquake, then I wonder if that 1995 Steven Segall movie was a sort of 'clue' concerning the possible existence of actual related satellite technology:

Plot Summary for Under Siege 2: Dark Territory:
_http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114781/plotsummary


Thanks for posting that session.
[/quote]

Hi Bud and All,

I did some quick research and calculations, just for another way to view the data.

Of course we do not know that this is absolutely correct, (psychopath percentages) but even looking at it as a working hypothesis is very disturbing.

What I chose to do is look at the total land mass per country and based on the percentages of psychopathy reported by the C's per country calculate the number found per square kilometer.

Just another way to view it, such as 23% in US = nearly 1 out of 4 or around 1 out of 5, etc.


ISRAEL USA RUSSIA UK HOLLAND FRANCE ETHIOPIA SPAIN CHINA SAMOA

POPULATION 7,465,000 308,586,000 141,927,297 61,113,205 6,065,459 65,447,374 79,221,000 46,661,950 1,338,612,968 179,000

LAND AREA 20,770 9,629,091 17,075,200 244,820 41,526 547,030 1,127,127 504,782 9,596,960 2,944
(sq/km)

POP DENSITY 359.41 32.05 8.31 249.63 146.06 119.64 70.29 92.44 139.48 60.80
people/sq km

PSYCHOPATH % 0.42 0.23 0.17 0.14 0.13 0.10 0.03 0.0260 0.0090 0.0060

PSYCOPATH 150.95 7.37 1.41 34.95 18.99 11.96 2.11 2.40 1.26 0.36
DISTRIBUTION

PSYCOPATH 3,135,300 70,974,780 24,127,640 8,555,849 788,510 6,544,737 2,376,630 1,213,211 12,047,517 1,074
VOLUME


First, sorry for the formatting problems, if it is too difficult to read once posted I will edit/remove and redo in different format. Have not figured out how to attach XLS so inserting line by line and trying to format that way. It's not working very well.

The very simple calculations reveal, however, ~150 psychopaths per square kilometer in Israel, compared to slightly over 7 per sq. kilometer in the US, nearly 12 per sq. km in France, 35 per in the UK and so on.

(N.B. I just saw someone post a question on the population of the Netherlands and will update this if that new data is correct.)

I find it interesting to look at it this way as well as the percentage of population for as we know countries have various sizes and so based upon population density you have varying statistical odds of coming into contact with other people, first off, and second, psychopaths. Of course with the internet these days a country's land mass should not be seen as too important in terms of the likelihood of coming into contact with psychopath but nonetheless it seems interesting.

No matter how one looks at the data though, I find it incredibly depressing and disturbing.

With kind regards,

~Leoursa


PS - this is where I got the land mass data:

http://www.mongabay.com/igapo/world_statistics_by_area.htm

Used the stats provided by AI for population

PPS - Have to say Spain looks very appealing based upon this.

 

[JEEP]

70,974,780 psychopaths in the USA but only 7 per sq km. Well, yeah, that's way better than 150 per sq km!!! Thanks Leoursa for those numbers even though they do make me sick!

 

[un chien anadolu]

ISRAEL USA RUSSIA UK HOLLAND FRANCE ETHIOPIA SPAIN CHINA SAMOA

POPULATION 7,465,000 308,586,000 141,927,297 61,113,205 6,065,459 65,447,374 79,221,000 46,661,950 1,338,612,968 179,000

LAND AREA 20,770 9,629,091 17,075,200 244,820 41,526 547,030 1,127,127 504,782 9,596,960 2,944
(sq/km)

POP DENSITY 359.41 32.05 8.31 249.63 146.06 119.64 70.29 92.44 139.48 60.80
people/sq km

PSYCHOPATH % 0.42 0.23 0.17 0.14 0.13 0.10 0.03 0.0260 0.0090 0.0060

PSYCOPATH 150.95 7.37 1.41 34.95 18.99 11.96 2.11 2.40 1.26 0.36
DISTRIBUTION

PSYCOPATH 3,135,300 70,974,780 24,127,640 8,555,849 788,510 6,544,737 2,376,630 1,213,211 12,047,517 1,074
VOLUME

I doubt that this kind of linear distribution formula is applicable for psychopaths since vast majority of them will choose urban areas, big cities etc. where they can feed and hide much more easily.

 

[Joe]

70,974,780 psychopaths in the USA but only 7 per sq km. Well, yeah, that's way better than 150 per sq km!!! Thanks Leoursa for those numbers even though they do make me sick!

I wouldn't take those figures as really being reflective of the odds of meeting one. Most are probably centered in cities, where all the "action" is.

 

[shijing]

One other thing I've been wondering about is, for Israel -- would I be correct in assuming the figures given include the Palestinian territories? If so, I'd hazard a guess that the distribution of psychopaths would be rather uneven according to which side of the line you were on (making the figures even more stunning, I think).

Also, for the USA, if we assume that roughly half of the population are OPs, then that means that 46% (approximately) of that group would be psychopaths, as they are 'malfunctioning OPs' -- right? So essentially one psychopath for every 'normal' OP, more or less. Please let me know if my logic is off.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I find it interesting that the countries with high psychopathy populations are predominantly "white". Suggests a link with "Aryan genes"... Also, looking at the governments of the past century in China and Africa, it seems to me that populations with a LOW percentage of psychopaths require a more overtly brutal and repressive government. Countries with lots of psychopaths are more "open", i.e. "free market", "dog-eat-dog". They embody the psychopathic mindset and don't need as much prodding. Just an hypothesis...

 

[gaman]

I'm thinking along similar lines AI. I certainly don't know much about cultures in other countries, but things here in the U.S. have been focused on "I WANT" and how to get what one wants for a long time. These "open" cultures combined with all the push in multiple venues to sell people what they don't need probably provide the perfect foundations to build on as one becomes more addicted to obtaining what "I WANT".

I have been the perfect example of this in the past and never even questioned whether this was good in the longer term view vs immediate gratification. Mine long term view/goals and strategy to support them was always how to get more of what "I WANT". A slippery slope indeed!

 

[seek10]

[quote author=seek10]
but looking at the danielS's calculation , I have to assume India should have lot of psychopaths. with china eliminated from the picture and there should be around 270 million extra psychopaths in the world and india with more than billion people can have good chunk of psychopaths.

I actualy continued on with the calulations and the 6% worldwide figure in fact proved to be true. So keeping that figure contant (actually used 5.86 %), India has 66,812,456 psychopaths second only to US and I am not surprised. The place is choke full of sickos and smug middle class trying to stomp on each other. Just my observations!

-Sid

well that figure is around 6% of the Indian population, right? So while it is a high number of psychopaths it is pretty low in terms of percentage compared to the Israel, US, UK, France, etc.
[/quote]

with 22% poverty level ( until decade back it is 32%) , 12 times dense ( than US) , 40 yrs of extreme corrupt ( though it is not Zionism style organized black hole) political system, 6% is very high.

 

[Avi]

70,974,780 psychopaths in the USA but only 7 per sq km. Well, yeah, that's way better than 150 per sq km!!! Thanks Leoursa for those numbers even though they do make me sick!

Hi Jeep,

You're welcome but all I did was some basic calculations based upon available data. And I cannot share your enthusiasm that this is 'way better' - for any way we look at the numbers it is very disturbing.

Un chien andalou has a point that the distribution cannot be taken as totally accurate, though I would not say the numbers are not applicable, per se. As far as the data goes that we have at present, it is merely one way of looking at the numbers. I agree that it is most likely that a higher distribution exists in higher populated cities than in lower-populated areas, but then again it is also possible that some remote places have high numbers too. All I am saying is that we do not know what the distribution might actually look like. All I did was take some known figures to do some basic arithmetic and come up with another possible data-point, though it does have its faults.

For sure the chart is not an exact statistical distribution. Considering the U.S. for instance, perhaps it is 70% of Los Angeles population, perhaps 90% of Washington D.C., 10% for Boston, etc, etc. (of the 23% of total US population).

I am merely making those numbers up right now for demonstrative purposes, we simply do not know how the number C's gave, being 23%, 42%, etc, would distribute. Sure we could take 23% of each major population/city, and the surface coverage area of each, to come up with different numbers, but in the end I think it is just playing with numbers and what matters is the awareness that such a significantly high proportion of society appears to be psychopathic.

Cheers,

~L

 

[Avi]

I'm thinking along similar lines AI. I certainly don't know much about cultures in other countries, but things here in the U.S. have been focused on "I WANT" and how to get what one wants for a long time. These "open" cultures combined with all the push in multiple venues to sell people what they don't need probably provide the perfect foundations to build on as one becomes more addicted to obtaining what "I WANT".

I have been the perfect example of this in the past and never even questioned whether this was good in the longer term view vs immediate gratification. Mine long term view/goals and strategy to support them was always how to get more of what "I WANT". A slippery slope indeed!

Hi gaman,

Wendell Berry wrote something along these lines, that what is wrong with the U.S. (he is Kentucky native) is such an emphasis upon what the individual wants.

We have lived our lives by the assumption that what was good for us would be good for the world. We have been wrong. We must change our lives so that it will be possible to live by the contrary assumption, that what is good for the world will be good for us. And that requires that we make the effort to know the world and learn what is good for it.

Your post reminded me of this as I was reading his work just recently and thought I'd share.

 

[Galaxia2002]

I find it interesting that the countries with high psychopathy populations are predominantly "white". Suggests a link with "Aryan genes"... Also, looking at the governments of the past century in China and Africa, it seems to me that populations with a LOW percentage of psychopaths require a more overtly brutal and repressive government. Countries with lots of psychopaths are more "open", i.e. "free market", "dog-eat-dog". They embody the psychopathic mindset and don't need as much prodding. Just an hypothesis...

It could be possible. it sounds like they need to meet a goal of collected energy as a seller try to do a number of sales by month to reach a goal and what you have said could be a way. In a place with high number of psychopaths you could have your psycho at home while in a low psychopaty population you need a big general psycho. OSIT

 

[JEEP]

And I cannot share your enthusiasm that this is 'way better' - for any way we look at the numbers it is very disturbing.

Yes, I agree that these numbers are definitely disturbing and I'm sorry if my sarcasm gave the impression that I was expressing enthusiasm about such. That said, I have to assert that the situation in the US is a picnic compared to that of the Palestinians. I'm actually working on a compilation of various articles involving Operation Cast Lead, among other things. Yeah, 150 psychopaths per sq km really IS way worst than 7!

I totally agree concerning the whole "what was good for us (General Motors) would be good for the world (country)" mindset - definitely not the way to do things. Oh, wait a minute! Didn't General Motors go bankrupt?! What's that saying . . . no honor among thieves (psychopaths)?