Session 6 December 2014

michaelrc said:
A.K. said:
Give a pie... or begin to analyze to no end if this is an exercise in futility?

Why, if we want to give a pie to a person that's hungry do we have to ascertain this persons problems? I can see this person is hungry and must have problems ... what ... l don't? We all have problems but to do an indepth analysis on a hungry person?

Wise?

Can a framework be shared to nudge some of us along the right path?

Really michaelrc i don't really know if there's ever a framework that ever exist or we just create one that suits everyone. One thing i do know is everybody has their own perspectives which is different to one another. Example a dog can cause extreme fear in me but not for another due to being bitten by one since young. Thus dogs affect me more than it affect others. Ever noticed all the esoteric works all talks about a common thing but speaks of it in a millions of ways? I guess this framework is suppose to be 'seen' by those whom ever reached that level of seeing & not by the common man. So that's why the WORK is to prepped us to reach that level. Then there's another obstacle which is the mind. Example lets say that you're suppose to be enlighten by doing a specific set of events say A,B,C. Where C is the last event before you enlighten. Then someone comes along and tell you the secret to enlightenment which is C. But once you know that, the mind will go into overdrive to use that information to further obfuscate your WORK. Meaning you're not even close to enlighten. But nature will sort of 'reset' or rearrange that sequence of events and give you another chance.

Maybe i getting too ahead of myself and confuses everyone. I must apologize at this point. I not a guru nor advance being or intellectual just a regular joe trying to get out of this system before everything hits the mud.

I'm still learning as i go along. :D


Thank you A.K. for responding. Anouther forum member referenced Pepperfritz's post. Wow, this understanding has been hashed out much more than many of us new to posting on the forum probably have realized. Anyway Pepperfritz's post...


Service to Others & Service to Self (from the Cassiopaea Glossary):

C's: STO is balance because you serve self through others.... STS is imbalance.... STO flows outward and touches all including point of origin, STS flows inward and touches only origin point.... An STS vehicle does not learn to be an STO candidate by determining the needs of another.... STO gives all to those who ask....


All Who Ask (from the Cassiopaea Glossary):

The Cassiopaea material states that a service to others being gives all to those who ask. This invites the question of what is meant by giving and by asking and who truly are the parties of the exchange.

...

In this world of mixed contents, the motives of giving, whether for personal satisfaction or as an expression of alignment with an impersonal principle cannot always be distinguished nor do they occur separately. Pure expressions of STO or STS are rare....

For a long time now I have thought that all through the transcripts the example of the Cs themselves is an excellent object lesson in how to give with consideration and concern for the needs of those who ask.


Thank you michaelrc for finding the quote "All Who Ask" from the glossary. I had wanted to reply with that too but did not know where to find it. What is more I am sure I have read similar sentiments from the Cs else where in the transcripts.
 
Very interesting and helpful session, to say the least! Thank you all!!
Very interesting that even though I've been reading Laura's work, and SOTT and Cassiopaea.org for a few years now, the reason I finally joined the Forum was because of my yearning for a connection with a tribe - more specifically a like-minded tribe. I haven't posted a lot because I've been reading SO MUCH of the recommended reading list and the Forum so that I don't ask too many repetitive questions. Have learned so much in such a short time and it is just making me so thirsty for more. I love that we have this forum as a tool for learning and networking; Many many thanks!!
 
All Who Ask (from the Cassiopaea Glossary):

The Cassiopaea material states that a service to others being gives all to those who ask. This invites the question of what is meant by giving and by asking and who truly are the parties of the exchange.

The crux of the matter is the difference between asking and manipulation. Manipulation seeks to control the manipulated and thus by definition limit the other's free will. Asking is an open-ended request which leaves the response up to the other party. Manipulation generally implies covert intent whereas asking generally does not. Distinguishing the two is difficult and not always clear-cut. Furthermore, humans generally neither ask nor manipulate as a single, unified being. More often than not, people are amalgams of contradicting programs and impulses, some of them tending towards STS, some maybe towards STO.

Acceding to manipulation generally amplifies the STS-ness of the manipulator. Thus for STO to be expressed, manipulation should be refused. Asking by people can be highly ambiguous and contradictory. For example, some people may actually ask to be refused when they make excessive demands. With proper discernment, one can give to the STO-tending parts of another and deny from the STS-tending parts of the same person. Denying manipulation may be seen to be doing a favor to the part which does not wish to take unfair advantage, should there be such a part.

We may consider for example lies to be an indirect request for truth. Thus giving all could be said to be giving all things their due, in accordance with upholding the principle of service to others. Discerning the true nature of the asking/request/manipulation is key here.

As with any general principle, this cannot be applied mechanically, without awareness of context. While our first connotation for giving is an exchange between persons, the idea is not limited to this. We can speak of giving all to a principle, as in dedicating one's life to a cause. We could say that making service to others oriented esoteric information available is a giving to the principle of free will. This is on one hand a response to a spirit of spiritual questing that exists among people often disillusioned with standard religion or the New Age, on the other hand a response to the lies and half truths promoted by the control system under the guise of these same movements.

In this world of mixed contents, the motives of giving, whether for personal satisfaction or as an expression of alignment with an impersonal principle cannot always be distinguished nor do they occur separately. Pure expressions of STO or STS are rare....

Thank you michaelrc for replying with the All Who Ask (from the Cassiopaea Glossary). What is said is right. But as cass said it before, we all from 3d realm are STS until 4d. So i guess that as we are helping others, be it directly or indirectly. There exist some form of manipulation there. Because we want something in return like 'i wanna be STO' or 'Gotta reach critical mass soon so we all can ride the wave soon' kind of inner thought. Just to name a few. And since being STO it's not a prerequisite for going up, but it sure save us some learning or choosing once we get there. Like understanding the basics of 4d first before starting the class. So in the end it doesn't matter what you want to do. Just get out there and spread the knowledge for those who wanna learn. As i was saying it's in the spotting of those who want to learn that determine our own level on the work. The more you WORK the more you see.
 
Please thank forum member, Flow. :lkj:

Flow, advised us to go here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,9245.0.html
This is where we found, Pepperfritz's post.
 
michaelrc said:
Please thank forum member, Flow. :lkj:

Flow, advised us to go here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,9245.0.html
This is where we found, Pepperfritz's post.

You're right. I should thank Flow.
Thank you Flow. :thup:
 
Laura said:
Session Date: December 6th 2014

Q: (L) Okay. If people are fully engaged in the network, will they receive information in time?

A: Yes, the operative term being "fully engaged" in any and every way possible.

Q: (Chu) So if they're sitting on the fence, they won't?

(Galatea) They have to commit to it.

(L) Yeah, but you can commit to something and stay right in your regular life. You don't have to commit to something and just throw all caution to the wind.

(Pierre) Fully engaged in every way possible...

(L) I think it means what is possible for that person.

A: Yes.

Q: (Perceval) The previous answer was that there is still a need in these times to prepare to actually receive and aid others in the outer edges of the network. That's us doing the preparation, for example, so that we are effectively acting as proxies for all those others?

[___]

(Chu) Just a comment. I would say that if it applied like Perceval was saying to us, or the US community for example, to be preparing for aiding and receiving other people, in order to do that even more, we need those that are in the outer edges to be doing what is possible...

(L) ...so that we can receive them!

A: Yes yes yes!!

Q: (Chu) It's not that they should just sit and wait...

A: Tribal unit strength should be a goal!

Q: (Perceval) So that last answer then was that there's a need in these particular times, that means people that are out there in the network need to be networking and expanding the network and helping each other.

(L) In the center of the network which is where we and the people in the US house are, they need to be prepared and ready. In other words, people on the outer edges of the network can stay where they are for now and be part of the network and know that if the circumstances or conditions transpire, they DO have a place to go.

A: Where you put your energy, including funding, is where your heart is and where you will be drawn and received when the time comes. [table leg starts squeaking during this answer.]

Q: (Chu) I was thinking it's the clearest explanation that it's not where you are, but who you are and what you see that counts.

(L) Because where you are, IF you see the signs, you can change your position if it's required.

(Chu) Yeah, and people have been worried about preparing, but they're worried about the "where" before worrying about where the heart is.

(Pierre) It's not only who you are, it's what you give as well.

(Perceval) Where you put your energy.

Thank You for another great session!

I may be way off base but reflecting on the reference above to "Tribal Unit strength" what comes to mind is what is purported as "the Hundredth Monkey" effect in raising consciousness and reaching a critical mass in higher vibration.

With those thoughts, The Chateau is the main active nucleus or beacon and by extension, the U.S. House, that those who actively network and involve themselves in it's mandated tenets can work towards "tapping" into the universal mind of the Tribal Unit, through biofeedback in the form of intuition and gut feelings. The matching frequency vibration and it's strength would be the main mitigating factor in tapping into the active nucleus, with location, only as a reference.

Simply stated, The Chateau has been established as a working unit and sending out a signal. It's up to us to work in unity to connect and tap into that frequency to complete the loop, thus expanding it's bandwith in all directions. By working towards a common goal, we help ourselves and those around us.

Maybe, I'm perceiving it wrong?
 
Thank you angelburst29 for mentioning this. I think you're right. The chateau & Laura created the platform for the rest of the world to connect with each other thus by networking & growing together. All potentials can be realized thus reaching critical mass and bringing positive changes into this realm. However, my question is those who are in the tribal unit has to reach the 2nd threshold and beyond? :huh:
 
I have a question for the cassiopeaens:

I have followed this for at least a decade and it seems to me, that on my personal quest of gold timing, that these have several, several times addressed answers that seem to me NOT POSSIBLY addressed to anyone else reading this material than myself.

for instance, "for those those who believe in a fixed future"
"They are far too clever for market timers"
"They have fixed things to the latest time"

Signed Auro/MichaelH

Just ask about Auro.
 
A.K. said:
Thank you angelburst29 for mentioning this. I think you're right. The chateau & Laura created the platform for the rest of the world to connect with each other thus by networking & growing together. All potentials can be realized thus reaching critical mass and bringing positive changes into this realm. However, my question is those who are in the tribal unit has to reach the 2nd threshold and beyond? :huh:

A.K.,

I am not sure which author or book you are referring to when you mention "the 2nd threshold and beyond?". Mouravieff's Gnosis I describes the first threshold as:

CHAPTER XXI 224
The gulf between the wishes and the abilities of modern man. Evolution can fill this gulf. Knowledge, understanding and savoir-faire. The
Androgyne. Return to pre-adamic unity by fusion of two polar Individualities. Halted growth and development of Personality an obstacle to
such a fusion. Personality must be developed all along the Staircase to full expression. Desire, faith, strength and discernment. Love. The plane of
eternity as the domain of the possible. Realization in Time. Pseudo-reincarnation. True reincarnation: conscious, voluntary, and
individual, situated entirely in time. The original film as it is conceived in eternity. Its introduction into time. The eternal return in a so-called
reincarnation; unconscious, involuntary and non-individual. Teams. Free movements of exterior man form the original film, which turns
approximately in a spiral. Karma. Conscious efforts can transform the film. Collective pseudo-reincarnation, conscious work on the film,
neutralization of Karma and the return to the original film. Esoteric shortcut by the joint work and conscious efforts of two polar beings
forming one Microcosmos. Fundamental importance of finding and recognizing the polar being. Prerequisite: renouncing free movements.
Criteria of polarity. Crossing the first Threshold needs renunciation; the second Threshold needs a positive program.

While Mouravieff seems to focus on the ideal of merging with our polar opposite (finding and recognizing the polar being) I think his concept might be applied to a "network" as well. Notice that his refers to "Teams" and "joint work".

I have wondered where I fall in the threshold, staircase scenario myself many times. I have not read Mouravieff and many other books in awhile but try to ponder their meaning and significance. By trying to answer your question I am learning with you.

If the second Threshold needs a positive program then here is Mouravieff's chapter description:

CHAPTER XX 203
Exercises aimed at acquiring the real Present. Mastering the body and the Personality, and making contact with higher levels of Consciousness.
Eight groups of physical and mental exercises — breathing techniques form a bridge between them. Passive constatation. The higher exercises:
concentration, contemplation and ecstasy. Diagram of the Way. Seven sections and three Thresholds: the first, from the wilderness to the Staircase,
leads to the second Threshold. Once crossed, the disciple then enters the Way itself, leading to the third Threshold. The limit of evolution in
terrestrial conditions. Description of the stages of the Way.

I may be wrong but I believe if we have found the forum we are probably coming out of the "wilderness" and at least approaching the Staircase IMHO.

So if that is the case we must be at least getting a glimpse of "the Way" which is beyond the "second Threshold"?

Perhaps (even for myself) as we see through and beyond that 2nd Threshold the steps become more and more visible to our higher intellect and emotions. As the C's encourage us to "network"/Teamwork we will gradually see and connect more dots/steps as we go along. They even are encouraging us to develop a Tribal Unit!
 
Thank you goyacobol for taking time to reply. Yes i was referring to the Gnosis by Mouravieff. Looks like i have to go back to the Gnosis for more understanding for what's beyond the 2nd threshold. Well back to the tribal unit thingy, the wiki says that:

A tribe is viewed, historically or developmentally, as a social group existing before the development of, or outside of, states. Many people used the term "tribal society" to refer to societies organized largely on the basis of social, especially familial, descent groups (see clan and kinship). A customary tribe in these terms is a face-to-face community, relatively bound by kinship relations, reciprocal exchange, and strong ties to place.[1]

The word that caught my eye is 'kinship'. To my understanding this means that cass wants us to be more knitted together sort of like a soul family. Balancing each and everyone in this tribal unit to a common frequency and raise this frequency as a family. Thus gaining protection together as a group just like what Laura & the amazing crew has done. But as cass says before we still not at the required tribal unit level. As far as i see there are a lot of people here better in terms understanding and intellect in the WORK. So i can't seems to understand what is the real actual element here that we're missing. Is it in doing more networking? Sharing more knowledge between each other or gaining understanding to the knowledge that we've attained? :huh:
 
A.K. said:
Thank you goyacobol for taking time to reply. Yes i was referring to the Gnosis by Mouravieff. Looks like i have to go back to the Gnosis for more understanding for what's beyond the 2nd threshold. Well back to the tribal unit thingy, the wiki says that:

A tribe is viewed, historically or developmentally, as a social group existing before the development of, or outside of, states. Many people used the term "tribal society" to refer to societies organized largely on the basis of social, especially familial, descent groups (see clan and kinship). A customary tribe in these terms is a face-to-face community, relatively bound by kinship relations, reciprocal exchange, and strong ties to place.[1]

The word that caught my eye is 'kinship'. To my understanding this means that cass wants us to be more knitted together sort of like a soul family. Balancing each and everyone in this tribal unit to a common frequency and raise this frequency as a family. Thus gaining protection together as a group just like what Laura & the amazing crew has done. But as cass says before we still not at the required tribal unit level. As far as i see there are a lot of people here better in terms understanding and intellect in the WORK. So i can't seems to understand what is the real actual element here that we're missing. Is it in doing more networking? Sharing more knowledge between each other or gaining understanding to the knowledge that we've attained? :huh:

A.K.,

Yes, I think it is more sharing of the knowledge from our individual perspectives and expressing our understanding from the "step" we are on (even if not face to face). I think the C's or Cass are saying we are each a part of a group soul and we will advance as a group if we pull together as the Gurdjieff example of "Women of the Rope".

Your post makes me self-remember and my reply may help you to do the same. By holding on to the rope and pulling together we might increase our knowledge and as a result increase the group-soul's level of being.

Going back to the Mouravieff threshold concept that you started with I went back to tried to put some of the "pieces" in place.

Laura explains the nature of the forum's purpose in Session 06-09-2009:
Very good points. And for public readers who wonder what that message to our online school said, I will post it below.
Quote
Hello to New Members/students and old members/students/teachers. This group is emerging from the lessons that the QFG have learned over
the past seven years of group work together. At the inception of this working group, it seems appropriate to discuss what we are and what we
hope to do. The C's - our 10 % inspiration that must be matched by 90 % perspiration - have pointed us to "networking" many, many times, but
other than clues, don't give us many exact details. As time has gone by, as we researched, experimented, learned, gained
experience, we have found that the work of Gurdjieff, supplemented by Mouravieff and Castaneda, Sufism, and some other bits and pieces, seem to fit together like puzzle pieces in the framework given by the C's. This is why, after all this time, we have come to think of the C's
and our "public work" as a TRUE 4th Way Work. Gurdjieff describes a True Fourth Way Work as follows:
Quote from: Gurdjieff
"The fourth way differs from the old and the new ways by the fact that it is never a permanent way.
"It has no definite forms and there are no institutions connected with it. "It appears and disappears governed by some particular laws of its own.
"The fourth way is never without some work of a definite significance, is never without some undertaking around which and in connection with
which it can alone exist. "When this work is finished, that is to say, when the aim set before it has been accomplished, the fourth way disappears, that is, it
disappears from the given place, disappears in its given form, continuing perhaps in another place in another form.

To me it seems that the main component of putting the pieces together is largely based on our "faith" in the framework and clues the C's are trying to give us. After all would we even be here on the forum if we had not been intrigued by the answers to the questions asked of the C's and their answers?

In the past I have had difficulty in relating to some of Mouravieff's terminology due to his "Biblical Gloss" as talked about in Session 07-13-2002:

Q: Mouravieff says that there are two kinds of humans - he calls the "pre-Adamic" and "Adamic," (discussed in book III). The idea is
that pre-Adamic human types basically have no "soul" nor any possibility of growing one. This is a pretty shocking idea, but there
have been recent scholarly discussions of this matter based on what seems to be clinical evidence that, indeed, there are human
beings who are just "mechanical" and have no "inner" or "higher self" at all. [See: "Division of Consciousness"] Gurdjieff talked about
this and so did Castaneda. Are these ideas Mouravieff presents about the two basic TYPES of humans, as far as they go, accurate?
A: Indeed, though again, there is a "Biblical Gloss."
Q: Mouravieff says that the "pre-Adamic" humans do not have the higher centers, nor the possibility of developing them in this cycle -
which we assume to be the Grand Cycle you have previously described, the length of which is around 300,000 years. Is this an
accurate representation of "pre-Adamic" beings?
A: Yes, they are "organic" portals between levels of density.
Q: Based on what Mouravieff has said, it seems to be so that any efforts to try to raise the consciousness of such individuals is
doomed to fail.
A: Pretty much. Most of them are very efficient machines. The ones that you have identified as psychopaths are "failures." The best
ones cannot be discerned except by long and careful observation.

Even though there may be a "Biblical Gloss" in Mouravieff's writings I think that we may find valuable pieces to the puzzle we hopefully are trying to put together.

So with the puzzle pieces in mind I would like to return to your original focus on "Thresholds". I will just go back to Mouravieff's description of the Third Threshold with "Biblical Gloss" as the C's have indicated may be his perspective views.

In religious terms there is Gnosis II:

The Baptism of Water, the baptism of repentance, is given before the first Threshold. This is the consecration in Hope of Salvation.
The Baptism ofFire, which is the ultimate proof of purification, is given before the second Thresholding, preceding the second Birth, It is the baptism of Life, the consecration of Salvation, although it is not final as the possibility of another fall is not yet excluded.
The Baptism of the Spirit is given before the third Threshold; it is the baptism of eternal Life, the consecration of final Salvation by the Holy Spirit, the Comforter. From that point on a fall will no longer be possible.

An element of the Third Threshold and the whole of the "Great Ladder" according to Mouravieff also seems to include sexuality:

Gnosis II:
Here, we will reintroduce the old terminology which defines the three great categories into which the whole of humanity is divided: hylic, psychic and pneumatic.
By hylic, we mean the man who lives below the first Threshold, by psychic we indicate psychological man, one who has crossed the first Threshold, and who has started on the Staircase leading to the second Threshold; by pneumatic, we refer to one who, having crossed the second Threshold and reached his second Birth, is making progress towards the third Threshold.
As we have seen, everything that lives, lives by Love, and aspires to Love, And by changing its appearance, Love manifests itself as a whole scale of values. It is, however, important to understand that this whole scale of values corresponds to several different levels of Consciousness. And in the case of Love as in that of Consciousness, the acquisition of the higher level does not automatically exclude or annihilate the lower level that has been transcended, but transform! it.
One often speaks of the sublimation of sex which follows the passage to higher levels of Consciousness. In fact, this sublimation takes place continuously on the whole Great Ladder of the evolution of living beings. For mankind it involves three steps which correspond to the three categories, already described, into which humanity is sub-divided.
The hylic man is satisfied with life below the first Threshold, whether he is a 'success' or not, whether he is rich or poor, happy or unhappy. As a result his aspirations and his desires, like his loves, ate aiso kept below the first Threshold.
The pneumatic man, that is, one who has crossed the second Threshold and has been born again, aspires to attain and cross the third Threshold, which will open up the Way leading to the Pleroma, the ineffable Love in the bosom of the Absolute,
The psychic (psychological) man also aspires to this state; but before it becomes possible for him to work effectively in this sense, he must be regenerated and come to the second Birth. In the first volume of our work, we studied the elements of the Way in detail and pointed out that access to what is properly called the Way demands assiduous work which may be divided into four stages. This forms a Staircase of four 'steps' of which the last is Love—the level that the man of the psyche must attain to appear before the second Threshold and to cross it. We indicated the traditional virtues which correspond to these four stages: Faith — Hope — Knowledge (Gnosis) and, lastly hove. The execution of this successive programme of work depends on the continuity of the faithful's efforts. The latter are often super-human, and must be made in the framework of one of the four Ways, which must correspond to the neophyte's type of psyche.
In this second volume we have also seriously studied the fifth Way, which offers the possibility of rapidly attaining and triumphantly crossing the second Threshold. This way is only possible to two polar beings in a united and conscious effort. This is the way of the Knight and the Lady of his Dreams.

Gnosis III:
It is necessary to state here that the sublimation of sex is not an aim in itself,
but a means. It has four degrees, of which the three that follow the ecstasy of
the mystical marriage appear in an order opposite to that in which courtly Love
had led the couple to the androgynous consciousness. The second is the synergic
and synchronous passage from Ml 12 to FA 6 in both the man and the woman, a
passage which is instantaneous and has an effect analogous to conception. The
third degree is the passage from SOL 12 to LA 6 which happens gradually and
demands time: we can compare this with the stage of pregnancy; lastly, if
nothing happens to stop the process, the couple reach the fourth degree, the
simultaneous passage from SI 12 to DO 6: this is the Birth, the Third Birth
which, with the crossing of the Third Threshold, opens up the way that will lead
the Knight and the Lady of his thoughts towards the empyrean of the Pleroma.


The above quotes seem to illustrate the sexual component and speak also of the 5th Way that can accelerate development between polar opposites. I will not even pretend to understand the complexities that Mouravieff describes. He uses many of Gurdjieff's concepts involving frequencies in a musical scale diagram and even temperature relationships with the sun etc..

So, I will return to more of the C's clues to try and piece some things into the puzzle such as references to physicality:

Session 08-28-1999:
Q: Okay, so this realm changed, as a part of the cycle; various choices were made: the human race went through the door
after the 'gold,' so to speak, and became aligned with the Lizzies after the 'female energy' consorted with the wrong side, so to speak. This is what you have said.
This resulted in a number of effects: the breaking up of the DNA, the burning off of the first ten factors of DNA, the separation of the
hemispheres of the brain...
A: Only reason for this: you play in the dirt, you're gonna get
dirty.
Q: What was the motivating factor for playing in the dirt?
What essential thing occurred? You said once that it was 'desire based imbalance.' What was it a desire for?
A: Increased physicality.
Q: What was the objective sought for in this desire for increased physicality?
A: Sensate.

Q: How was sensate experienced so that these beings had an idea that they could get more if they increased their idea that they could get
more if they increased their physicality?
A: Not experienced, demonstrated.
Q: Demonstrated how, by who?
A: Do you not know?
Q: It was demonstrated by the Lizzies?
A: Basically.
Q: Demonstrated in what way? Did they say: 'here, try this!'
Or did they demonstrate by showing or doing?
A: Closer to the latter.
Q: They were doing, experimenting, playing, and saying: 'look, we are doing this, it's so great, come here and try it?'
A: Not really. More like: "you could have this."
Q: What seemed to be so desirable about this increased physicality when they said 'you can have this?'
A: Use your imagination!
Q: Was there any understanding, or realization of any kind, that increased physicality could be like Osiris lured into his own coffin by Set?
That they would then slam the lid shut and nail him in?
A: Obviously, such understanding was lacking.
Q: Sounds like a pretty naive bunch! Does the lack of this understanding reflect a lack of knowledge?
A: Of course. But more, it is desire getting in the way of...
Q: Okay. The 'Fall' occurred. It seems like, and some of the archaeological studies indicate, that for many thousands of
years, there was a peaceful existence and a nice agrarian society where the goddess or female creative forces wereworshipped.
At least, this is what a lot of present-day booksare proposing...
A: No. These events took place 309000 years ago, as you measure it. This is when the first prototype of what you call

Perhaps, "increased physicality" whether sexual or otherwise is the basic message of our "fall" into 3D. We should of course pay attention to all the authors that the forum recommends for our learning experience and not discard any nuggets of truth that are contained for our learning the ropes so to speak? I have had difficulty sorting through all of this but it does give me more to think about and hopefully I will gain more understanding by doing the searching.

I do think that the kinship we develop will help each one of us find missing pieces and put the puzzle together.

Thanks for the inspiring question. :)
 
From everything Gurdjieff has said about the Macro Cosmos and everything in it, and the many things the C's have said over 20 years about Densities and Consciousness, it seems that the increased physicality humans "went for" would necessarily have a consciousness limiting effect. Just to keep that in mind, as it has been described that the different Densities (or Worlds) have a correspondence to the amount of physicality (and how much physicality dominates by the number/order of physical laws that apply, the lower you go). The C's have made this even clearer, as they use the 7 Density model to show that there are 3 physical densities, 3 purely ethereal densities, and one paraphysical (4th) density in between. And the C's and G agree that there's nothing in existence that doesn't have some amount of consciousness; it's just that the lower the density, the more physical laws dominate and limit the freedom to access awareness of higher levels and ultimately Universal Consciousness. At 1st density, it seems that the physical is non-living with NO consciousness, but that's just because it has become SO mechanical that it looks as if ONLY physical laws apply.

However esoteric science/knowledge says there's still a very low level of consciousness that reaches even "inanimate" objects/substances (also after all, we and all living things are made up of those substances on this planet - when enough consciousness/information receiving/transducing capability is channeled down, the inanimate becomes animate, so some amount of connection with consciousness must be maintained even with inanimate objects for them to even exist).
 
Perhaps, "increased physicality" whether sexual or otherwise is the basic message of our "fall" into 3D. We should of course pay attention to all the authors that the forum recommends for our learning experience and not discard any nuggets of truth that are contained for our learning the ropes so to speak? I have had difficulty sorting through all of this but it does give me more to think about and hopefully I will gain more understanding by doing the searching.

I do think that the kinship we develop will help each one of us find missing pieces and put the puzzle together.

Thanks for the inspiring question. :)

Yes, as cass has said before we fall into 3D after that pot of gold. And if i remember correctly, because we are being possessive of the physicality of this realm thus we get stuck with this realm. Not that we can't enjoy the physicality but to remember not to let them control us. Just like Caesar! ;D
And also i check this out: http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/mouravieff2a.htm in case anyone wants to read the whole thing.

If we remember that the kingdom of heaven is within, and NOT outside us, then we begin to understand that some force or even violence must be employed INTERNALLY to retake our own fortress.

This is very often necessary to eliminate the roots of Illusion within us, the mother of lies to ourselves.

Thus we see that the test at the fourth step is decisive. Until lying stops, man drags along the defects of his past: lying, weakness, self-pity, inner compromise.

Generally, it takes time, the opportunity and the possibility to rid himself of his baggage before committing himself to the fourth step is met. Many individuals, because of the weight of their past, waste time and allow many opportunities which present themselves to go by.

But, on the fourth step, the balance sheet must be drawn up and accounts settled. Man, poor and naked, is accepted at the second Threshold, but only on condition that he is consistent and pure.

The essential is that he be consistent, meaning that he contains within himself true Love, which can only be revealed by the cessation of lying to the self.

Everything false within him will be burned by the flames of this blazing sword.

All of these steps happen more or less together in many combinations. They are distributed unequally according to different personalities, and driven by the force of our Desire to be free.

In stepping onto the Staircase, to approach and then cross the Second Threshold, man adopts a new attitude towards himself: from this point on, he takes his fate in his own hands.

As goyacobol has pointed out it is the 'faith' in the framework that compels us to seek further up the ladder to understand our nature of reality and ourselves. Thank you goyacobol for clearing part of the fog in my mind.

From everything Gurdjieff has said about the Macro Cosmos and everything in it, and the many things the C's have said over 20 years about Densities and Consciousness, it seems that the increased physicality humans "went for" would necessarily have a consciousness limiting effect. Just to keep that in mind, as it has been described that the different Densities (or Worlds) have a correspondence to the amount of physicality (and how much physicality dominates by the number/order of physical laws that apply, the lower you go). The C's have made this even clearer, as they use the 7 Density model to show that there are 3 physical densities, 3 purely ethereal densities, and one paraphysical (4th) density in between. And the C's and G agree that there's nothing in existence that doesn't have some amount of consciousness; it's just that the lower the density, the more physical laws dominate and limit the freedom to access awareness of higher levels and ultimately Universal Consciousness. At 1st density, it seems that the physical is non-living with NO consciousness, but that's just because it has become SO mechanical that it looks as if ONLY physical laws apply.

However esoteric science/knowledge says there's still a very low level of consciousness that reaches even "inanimate" objects/substances (also after all, we and all living things are made up of those substances on this planet - when enough consciousness/information receiving/transducing capability is channeled down, the inanimate becomes animate, so some amount of connection with consciousness must be maintained even with inanimate objects for them to even exist).

Thank you SeekinTruth for putting it better than i can say it. :-[

So can i say that for example a computer engineer created a 'square blue mouse' which he/she channel down his/her consciousness into that inanimate object which he/she create call 'square blue mouse'. Thus to this 'square blue mouse' the computer engineer is his higher consciousness and so they're connected yet they're not. :huh:
 
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