"Sluggish" Liver issues.

Psyche said:
In your case, I would continue using it orally because psoriasis has been a potential topical contraindication of DMSO. It was never completely established because DMSO was pulled out from all research studies very early on (early 60s) and it has been slowly picking up where it left during the years.

OK, thanks for letting me know, and I'll continue what I've been doing then. One other reason I was wondering about this was because in the past few weeks, my poo has been off-color (more yellow than brown) and when I did a bit of research on it, the main conclusion seemed to be that the change in color can be indicative of a gall bladder/liver disruption -- I guess bile is the main thing that colors poo brown? Anyway, I've been following this thread and recently picked up some digestive enzymes and milk thistle, just to be on the safe side.

Psyche said:
Have you tried it topically and if then, for how long?

I've tried it topically for a couple of months (although not completely continuously). I originally had three different kinds of skin conditions -- two of them (including the one that best fit the psoriasis profile) cleared up right away when I started using DMSO both topically and internally, but the final one is pretty persistent. I asked a dermatologist about it several months ago, and she basically said she didn't know what it is -- I've been playing around with the idea lately that it might actually be fungal. When I apply DMSO topically, it does cause it to dry up temporarily, but it doesn't seem to be able to get rid of it completely.

Psyche said:
Some people have strong detox reactions when taking it orally. But it can be definitely very helpful in some life threatening conditions. If you feel good with your weekly routine, you can continue doing so. Some say they can feel and concentrate better when they take DMSO, so in that case, it is welcome :)

Yes -- I like being able to concentrate :)
 
Mrs.Peel said:
My point about going back to oilve (or some other like grapeseed) oil for cooking was that perhaps it's not as "fatty" as bacon grease? Cheesy

Laura said:
Well, you need the fats but maybe you could cook with ghee for a bit, making sure you take your milk thistle and digestive enzymes and ox bile.

FWIW, I was using beef tallow or lard to cook, but my skin was not so great, despite taking enzymes (did not try ox bile yet). So I'm sticking to ghee now (and eating plenty of it) and duck fat once in a while and I'm happy to report that my skin looks better already. So maybe ghee instead of olive oil would do the trick?
 
Shijing said:
One other reason I was wondering about this was because in the past few weeks, my poo has been off-color (more yellow than brown) and when I did a bit of research on it, the main conclusion seemed to be that the change in color can be indicative of a gall bladder/liver disruption -- I guess bile is the main thing that colors poo brown? Anyway, I've been following this thread and recently picked up some digestive enzymes and milk thistle, just to be on the safe side.

It can also be an indication of a rapid intestinal transit, or less bile output. You can get some oxbile to have with your meals as well.

If the skin lesion is fungal, it might take awhile longer to disappear with the topical DMSO. Another possibility is to do a trial of nystastin cream to see if it clears up.
 
Psyche said:
It can also be an indication of a rapid intestinal transit, or less bile output. You can get some oxbile to have with your meals as well.

OK, thanks for the recommendation -- if this is the case, I wonder why my intestines are suddenly in such a hurry!

Psyche said:
If the skin lesion is fungal, it might take awhile longer to disappear with the topical DMSO. Another possibility is to do a trial of nystastin cream to see if it clears up.

OK -- I forgot to mention in my last post that, following a previous suggestion, I've also begun taking fish oil. I may not have been using it long enough for it to have an effect, however, so I will keep up with that and the DMSO for awhile, and then try the nystatin cream if I really don't see a difference. Thanks :)
 
Psyche said:
If you have milk thistle, make sure you're taking around 100mg of active silymarin three times per day.

I am on the fifth day of the protocol (including L-glutamine but not on the ultra simple diet yet) and milk thistle definitely has its detox effect on me. But it's not surprising after years of alcohol abuse, in fact I probably have it easy and thank to the diet. Maybe it is also due to the fact that I've been continuously under the weather since early November and my body is weakened, but it manifested itself in muscle pains, bloated stomach, relapsed cold and bronchitis, sinuses pressure and stuffy nose, even ears and especially in the right side of the body. And a lot of anger. It is probably similar to Candida die off symptoms, though Nystatin, nasty as it is, didn't have such strong effect on me in the past. But it's a good thing, and garbage has to come out. Hopefully it will get better soon because this low energy is starting to piss me off. :)
 
Thanks for all the information Psyche and everyone that added on to this discussion. I've been feeling a bit sluggish these past few days followed with headaches, gassiness, dizziness, constipation, so I was thinking it could be food allergies. The holiday season and all I thought I was careful in watching what I ate, but there seems to have been something used in the cooking methods of others that 'hit' me.

Never thought there could be an issue with my liver though. My fat intake has increased a lot, whereas I haven't been eating as much veggies.

So Milk Thistle, with 100mg of sylmarin, 3 times daily. Ox Bile taken with every meal, and digestive enzymes which I'm going to start using more often than I have.

Along with that, increase my Vitamin C intake along with Vitamin D and E. And of course, more veggies.

Mrs. Tigersoap said:
FWIW, I was using beef tallow or lard to cook, but my skin was not so great, despite taking enzymes (did not try ox bile yet). So I'm sticking to ghee now (and eating plenty of it) and duck fat once in a while and I'm happy to report that my skin looks better already. So maybe ghee instead of olive oil would do the trick?

Interesting, I'll try that out. I've noticed some reactions with my skin colour as well, but I use a lot of grapeseed and coconut oil.
 
Hi All,

I am curious as what to do in case of having gall stones? I had to have my kidneys ultrasounded last week and the ultrasound technician asked me if I had ever had my gallbladder looked at. She then proceeded to tell me that I have gallstones, which I kind of thought I might, I have been having a dull pain under my ribs in my right side. I have in the past done a liver cleanse, well a few years back and I did get out tons of "stones" but I don't know if that is the right thing to do now. I wondered if that would be too harsh since I don't have a bladder anymore. Are there any supplements that I should be taking?

I am currently taking vitamin c, alpha lipoic acid, a one a day vitamin, magnesium and a B vitamin. I have cut out gluten, dairy, and sugar for the most part. I just know that I really don't want to have to have my gallbladder removed.

Any advice would be appreciated!!

Angela :)
 
I've been looking at this thread and have had some concern about this. Lately it seems I get bloated and my stomach gurgles when I eat fat. I've been eating a lot of olive oil especially since a few months ago when I found out fat was good for you. I take enzymes and ox bile with meals, but even when I take a few fish oil capsules before bed, it makes it hard to sleep with all the stomach activity.

When I read about Angela's gall bladder concerns I thought maybe my gall bladder may be it. I've had some pains on the left abdominal side, but I think it may just be muscle tears because I watched a lot of funny videos a few nights ago. But a few weeks ago I had a feeling of nausea too. These may not be related, though.

I've had a severe pain a few years ago that reminds me of biliary colic, and I sometimes can't get comfortable at night because my spine hurts. About a year ago I had a really bad what I think to be an appendix attack, that I actually wrote about here.

But the sites I checked out say you can't mess up your gall bladder from eating too much fat. And I don't seem to have any of the risks for a gall stone. Maybe my liver just needs some cleaning, and I remember the coffee enema is supposed to clean the bile ducts out.

I can be a little hypochondriac, but even if it's nothing, I still have the annoying stomach gurgles, which didn't happen when I started to introduce more fats.
 
3D Student said:
I've been looking at this thread and have had some concern about this. Lately it seems I get bloated and my stomach gurgles when I eat fat. I've been eating a lot of olive oil especially since a few months ago when I found out fat was good for you. I take enzymes and ox bile with meals, but even when I take a few fish oil capsules before bed, it makes it hard to sleep with all the stomach activity.

You should be having the fat in the morning along with enzymes and ox bile. Remember: eat like a king in the morning, like a prince at noon, like a pauper at night. Take your fish oil after breakfast. Eat a light soup in the evening and nothing that has to be digested after say, 6 pm.
 
Laura said:
You should be having the fat in the morning along with enzymes and ox bile. Remember: eat like a king in the morning, like a prince at noon, like a pauper at night. Take your fish oil after breakfast. Eat a light soup in the evening and nothing that has to be digested after say, 6 pm.

I have a weird schedule working evenings so my meals are at around 10, 2, and dinner at 9 p.m. I could change dinner to 7 though. I go to sleep around 1:30-2 am, so could 6 pm be bumped a few hours ahead? I've been thinking of just eating two meals, because I could stretch them out a little more and still be satisfied it seems.
 
Just started taking the recommended supplements for dealing with my sluggish liver issues – Gertrudes’ recommendation (Kroeger-Herb-Co-Complete-Concentrates-Milk-Thistle-Veggie-Caps) at breakfast and Psyche’s recommendation (eclectic-institute-milk-thistle-600-mg-veggie-caps) at tea time. I’m already taking Psyche’s other recommendations – ‘1000 - 1200 IU of vitamin E, plus vitamin D (2000 - 4000 IU), plus alpha lipoic acid (200 - 400 mg/day), plus magnesium citrate and vitamin C according to my own needs’ – as a matter of course.

Sorting out this problem may alleviate other problems I’m dealing with - prostrate, skin issues, dehydration, and sleep.

Thanks to iherb for a speedy delivery (3 days from order date) to the UK.
 
Found a link that lists Milk Thistle products and their Silymarin percentages and amounts. Just scroll down to see the table.
 
I just ran across the following article on bile acids and colon cancer here:

Bile Acids Link High-Fat Diet to Colon Cancer

Bile acids could be the missing link between a high-fat, Western-style diet and colon cancer, UA researchers and their collaborators have discovered.

Bile acids could be the missing link between a high-fat, Western-style diet and colon cancer, University of Arizona researchers and their collaborators have discovered.

Seventeen out of 18 mice fed a standard diet topped off with bile acid developed colon tumors after eight or 10 months, the scientists report in the journal Archives of Toxicology.

"It has been known for a while that a diet rich in fat poses a risk for colon cancer," said Carol Bernstein, a research associate professor in the UA College of Medicine's department of cell biology and anatomy and lead author of the study.

"But until now, it wasn't known exactly why."

Her husband and co-author, Harris Bernstein, added: "Since the 1970s, people in the field have suspected that bile acids play a role, but they were thought to act merely as promoters, enhancing the cancer-causing effect of some other substance. Our findings show that bile acids themselves cause colon cancer."

Harris Bernstein is a professor of cell biology and anatomy.

Over the past 25 years, the Bernsteins have collected evidence suggesting that bile acids cause changes in the cells lining the walls of the colon, sending them down a path toward becoming cancerous.

"The bile acids cause damage to the cells' DNA, leading to mutations," explained Carol Bernstein. "Those mutations then cause changes in the activity of cancer-related genes."

Encouraged by their findings in mice, the Bernsteins are submitting a grant proposal to investigate the bile acids' role in cancer formation in more detail and how it compares to the situation in humans.

Bile acids are the body's own "dishwashing detergent." Produced by the liver and stored in the gall bladder, they are released into the intestinal tract to emulsify fat in food once it is passed on from the stomach to the intestine.

"Because it has been known for a while that bile acids such as deoxycholic acid, or DOC, play a key role in the formation of colon cancer, we wanted to know whether DOC alone is enough to trigger tumor formation," said Carol Bernstein.

To test their hypothesis, the scientists divided wild-type mice into four groups and fed them a standard diet for eight to 10 months, either with or without DOC added. DOC levels were assessed in the study animals' excrements. To make the experiments relevant to the human condition, the Bernsteins added DOC to the point where it showed up at the level found in previous studies in humans who were eating a high-fat diet.

"Obviously, there is still a difference in that mice are much smaller than humans," Carol Bernstein said, "and the exposure is much longer in humans. We get colon cancer mostly after the age of 50."

Of the 18 mice that received DOC in addition to the standard diet, all but one (94 percent) developed colon tumors, including 10 animals whose tumors had progressed to full-blown cancers. In contrast, no tumors were found in mice eating a standard diet without DOC.

Previous work done by the Bernsteins and other scientists showed that bile acids lead to the formation of additional reactive oxygen species, molecules that can damage cells. Also called free radicals, these molecules are normal by-products of metabolism. They are highly reactive, and if they encounter another molecule such as a protein or DNA, a chemical reaction occurs in which the target molecule is damaged.

The Bernsteins believe that DOC could increase reactive oxygen species to a level beyond the ability of a cell to repair all the damages they cause, ultimately leading to cancer.

"Even the average human cell that is not exposed to excess bile acids accrues about 10,000 damages over the course of a day through normal metabolism," Harris Bernstein said. The cells in our bodies depend on specialized enzymes to repair these average levels of damage."

Could bile acid cause colon cancer by ramping up the levels of the destructive free radicals? To address this question, the researchers fed mice with a standard diet containing bile acid, but also chlorogenic acid, an antioxidant found at high levels in blueberries, coffee and eggplant. Antioxidants are known to protect cells from damage by oxygen radicals.

Only 64 percent of mice in this category developed tumors, suggesting that chlorogenic acid offsets some of the cell damage inflicted by the bile acid.

Again, no colon tumors were found in any of the mice belonging to the control group fed with a standard diet plus antioxidant.

The Bernsteins are now beginning to measure the levels of excess DNA damage caused by increased DOC in the colons of mice. They are also starting to find reductions in DNA repair enzymes caused by addition of DOC to the diet.

Their new work could further explain the mechanism of how bile acids cause progression to cancer in the colon.

I am not sure how to interpret this, so I was wondering if anyone has feedback about it -- they are not saying that there is a link between a high-fat diet and colon cancer per se, just that it is mediated by high levels of bile acid.
 
I can't help wondering just what they fed those mice in addition to extremely high doses of DCA acids. Inflammation from wheat, dairy, corn, and soy, in addition to high bile acids could kill anything given long enough.

Two of my biological grandparents died of colon cancer, but their diets were loaded with processed foods, wheat, and dairy. One was very high fat, the other was low fat but high in processed junk. Both passed away

from complications of bowel cancer. In the case of my grandmother, she had had her colon removed for about a year before she passed. I don't remember if that was true of my grandfather.

Having a sluggish liver seems to be part of the problem, osit. We are programmed so early that fat is bad for us, that we don't eat near enough and the liver congests. Its like walking around with a headcold..the liver can't 'breath'.

Does that make sense? ;)
 
It would be interesting to see the same experiment now being done without injecting bile acid but purely dividing mice into high fat fed, an non high fat fed, and see whether we would obtain similar results.
Something worth investigating I think.

Gimpy said:
I can't help wondering just what they fed those mice in addition to extremely high doses of DCA acids. Inflammation from wheat, dairy, corn, and soy, in addition to high bile acids could kill anything given long enough.

This experiment that questions High Fat Diet Linked to Breast Cancer? is a good example of how often experiments can be hijacked because of equating junk food to whatever it is claimed to be tested. In this case it was also fat.
 

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