Smoking is... good?

[dant]

To: Abstract:
I forgot about this thread on the subject 'Cancer is a fungus?":
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=9883.0

So I added it here for reference.

I wonder if this would assist you in your thread on "Tobacco project/research/video":
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=16418.0

I wonder if it were possible to consolidate smoking/Tobacco etc. into
a category as it seems to be all over the place - seems like it would
be nice to have it all together somehow?

In any case, thanks & networking is FUN!

 

[Erna]

Hookah pipe (hubbly bubbly) - bad for you?

Russ: Do you need to go to Iran to do that? I went to a restaurant last night where we smoked sheesha (middle eastern tobacco) from hookahs. And I live in Australia, not Iran. tongue

They have those in Canada too. I'd think that Adam could do the same thing in Amsterdam.

ye I was checking around and there is even a store in Holland which sells these things _http://www.waterpijpen.nl/index1.html
no need to go to Iran

thanks for the suggestions!

We have this actuality program on tv every Sunday evening called Carte Blanche. This Sunday they had a feature about the hookah (or hubbly bubbly, as it is called here).

They say it's really bad for you, so I was wondering if it was another smoking disinfo campaign, or if there's any truth in the things they were saying. It's a fairly short clip (4:21), and here are some of the things they were saying about hubbly bubbly smoking:

http://www.mnet.co.za/mnetvideo/BrowseVideo.aspx?ChannelId=1&vid=24675

The pipe that smokers use is plastic, and non-porous, so none of the carbon-monoxide is allowed to escape. A recent study in the South African medical journal measured levels of carbon monoxide in the blood. Five minutes after smoking, carbon-monoxide increased by 40% in cigarette smokers and by 482% in hubbly smokers, and so the volume of carbon monoxide is huge, and of course carbon monoxide is the same thing that you use when you want to commit suicide. You attach a hosepipe to your car's exhaust system, and you sit in the car and it's the carbon monoxide that kills you.

We conducted our own tests at Envirocon Instrumentation using a portable gas analyser from Japan. We asked a seasoned cigarette smoker to blow a mouth full of cigarette smoke into a bag. This was then extracted by the machine and showed a sulphur dioxide or SO2 reading of 6.6 parts per million, and a carbon monoxide or CO reading of 300. We then asked a young hubbly smoker to do the same thing. A bag full of hubbly smoke was attached to the machine and the results were dramatic. The digits continued climbing until the CO levels were out of range, over the limit of 500, and the sulphur dioxide level was 10 parts per million.

I don't smoke hubbly, but I always thought it would be cool to get one. Now I don't think so. Currently I roll my own cigarettes with Drum tobacco. Is there a tobacco on the market for hubbly bubblies that are not chemical laden, like you get for hand-rolled cigarettes, or is hubbly smoking just a no-no? I asked the guy at the tobacco shop a few days ago if you can use Golden Virginia or Drum tobacco in a hubbly (since I don't have a clue), and he said no, those are for hand-rolled cigarettes only. So I asked him if there is a natural organic tobacco available for hubblies, and he said not to his knowledge. He didn't seem like the brightest pencil in the packet anyway, and said the 'only' tobacco available everywhere for hubblies are the flavoured ones (cherry, vanilla, banana etc. etc.) I also think the plastic tube for inhaling can't be that good + no filter.

A hubbly bubbly just always looks so social to me...but I might just admire the activity from a distance until I know for sure.

 

[RyanX]

The pipe that smokers use is plastic, and non-porous, so none of the carbon-monoxide is allowed to escape. A recent study in the South African medical journal measured levels of carbon monoxide in the blood. Five minutes after smoking, carbon-monoxide increased by 40% in cigarette smokers and by 482% in hubbly smokers, and so the volume of carbon monoxide is huge, and of course carbon monoxide is the same thing that you use when you want to commit suicide. You attach a hosepipe to your car's exhaust system, and you sit in the car and it's the carbon monoxide that kills you.

We conducted our own tests at Envirocon Instrumentation using a portable gas analyser from Japan. We asked a seasoned cigarette smoker to blow a mouth full of cigarette smoke into a bag. This was then extracted by the machine and showed a sulphur dioxide or SO2 reading of 6.6 parts per million, and a carbon monoxide or CO reading of 300. We then asked a young hubbly smoker to do the same thing. A bag full of hubbly smoke was attached to the machine and the results were dramatic. The digits continued climbing until the CO levels were out of range, over the limit of 500, and the sulphur dioxide level was 10 parts per million.

I don't smoke hubbly, but I always thought it would be cool to get one. Now I don't think so. Currently I roll my own cigarettes with Drum tobacco. Is there a tobacco on the market for hubbly bubblies that are not chemical laden, like you get for hand-rolled cigarettes, or is hubbly smoking just a no-no? I asked the guy at the tobacco shop a few days ago if you can use Golden Virginia or Drum tobacco in a hubbly (since I don't have a clue), and he said no, those are for hand-rolled cigarettes only. So I asked him if there is a natural organic tobacco available for hubblies, and he said not to his knowledge. He didn't seem like the brightest pencil in the packet anyway, and said the 'only' tobacco available everywhere for hubblies are the flavoured ones (cherry, vanilla, banana etc. etc.) I also think the plastic tube for inhaling can't be that good + no filter.

A hubbly bubbly just always looks so social to me...but I might just admire the activity from a distance until I know for sure.

I could be wrong, but aren't low levels of carbon monoxide actually beneficial in some ways? Of course, "low" is subjective - I don't have any context to compare the 300 or 500 numbers in the article against. I just got the impression that they were trying to make the equation carbon monoxide = evil, which I don't think is entirely true.

Here's one link I came across that discusses CO:

http://www.data-yard.net/10b/cm.htm

I think Laura has mentioned this as well although I can't recall where.

FWIW, I smoke Organic American Spirit rolling tobacco in a pipe. I know hardcore pipe smokers would probably cringe at this, but it still works. I don't have a lot of money to spend on fancy flavored tobaccos and this tobacco seems general purpose enough to use for just about smoking method. Isn't a hubbly just a water pipe? Should be about the same thing as smoking out of a pipe, except the water filters some of the larger particles out of the smoke, OSIT. I think the method allows a person to inhale a larger quantity of smoke, so that might account for the differences in the study. So instead of taking 3 drags, just take one from the hubbly or whatever one feels comfortable with.

I don't own one of these either, but I always thought they would be fun to try. You're right, it does sound like more of a social way to smoke.

 

[3DStudent]

Yeah I've thought that the hookas are cool too. The water I heard does filter some of the nasty stuff out of the smoke. I'm pretty sure you could make your own shisha out of RYO tobacco. Shisha is just tobacco, honey, and glycerin. I'm not sure if the honey would be bad for because it raises your blood sugar and sugar is inflammatory. I don't know about glycerin either, I think it is sometimes made out of soy, but I think it is used to just give the dramatic added smoke.

And I thought that the CO played a part in the beneficial effect on the brain in relation to the neurological diseases. But that could have been CO2. Of course then there is the plastic of the pipe, but I think the smoke cools quite a bit, especially if you put ice cubes in the hookah. Sessions last 45 mins to well over an hour, so you wouldn't have to rush it.

So I'm not quite sure about if it's totally safe. The things to think about are the ingredients of the shisha, whether the gases are harmful and then the plastic hose, osit.

FWIW, I smoke Organic American Spirit rolling tobacco in a pipe.

I've thought about getting a small bowled meerschaum pipe and smoking organic AS out of it too. It's a little pricey for that tobacco though, 8.5 ounces is almost $50.

 

[3DStudent]

I just wanted to point out something I found out about standard flint lighters. It seems that the flints have some metals in them that are toxic. These will get into whatever you light with the lighter. It's been suggested that you can just let the flame stay lit while the metals disperse. I can't find any real scientific information on this, it is just a word of mouth kind of thing. But I just thought I'd put it out there, fwiw.

 

[1peacelover]

FWIW...........Your lighting implement is just as important as the type of tobacco you are smoking. I was introduced to the Beeline last year and I cannot go back to lighting my cigs directly with a lighter. It tastes just like the butane. Once I forgot to use the beeline & lit the cig with the lighter, I had to dispose of the entire cigarette, because the tobacco & paper absorbed the butane fumes. So I order the beeline by the box and share them with my friends.

http://www.thebeelinestore.com/whyusebeeline.html

 

[RyanX]

I just wanted to point out something I found out about standard flint lighters. It seems that the flints have some metals in them that are toxic. These will get into whatever you light with the lighter. It's been suggested that you can just let the flame stay lit while the metals disperse. I can't find any real scientific information on this, it is just a word of mouth kind of thing. But I just thought I'd put it out there, fwiw.

FWIW...........Your lighting implement is just as important as the type of tobacco you are smoking. I was introduced to the Beeline last year and I cannot go back to lighting my cigs directly with a lighter. It tastes just like the butane. Once I forgot to use the beeline & lit the cig with the lighter, I had to dispose of the entire cigarette, because the tobacco & paper absorbed the butane fumes. So I order the beeline by the box and share them with my friends.

http://www.thebeelinestore.com/whyusebeeline.html

Interesting, I've often wondered about the lighting apparatus too. It seems that one would be inhaling harsh petroleum based solvents by using standard butane lighters. Last summer I started using wooden stick matches to light my pipe just because I had them sitting out for starting fires in my fire pit. I eventually switched to the butane lighter for convenience. I think I'll have to revisit that decision.

Thanks 3D Student and 1peacelover for bringing this to my attention!

 

[Beau]

I don't think hookahs are all that harmful. A lot of tobacco pipes nowadays have plastic in them, just like the hoses do, but they don't pass the smoke through water, which acts like a filter and smooths the smoke out. You don't use butane to light the shisha, they must be burnt using coals. And if you're worried about butane, you can usually get wicks from smoke shops to light your cig/pipe with. They are considered much healthier. Also, you can get good butane that has 0% impurities in them so the risk is lessened. Stay away from Ronsonol if that's your issue.

Good, high-end hookahs will be composed of a combination of glass and brass, aside from the hoses which I've never seen made of anything other than plastic. If you wanna avoid some plastic leak into the smoke, you can find yourself one of those. The shisha is a little worrisome because it is mass produced and contains molasses and the flavoring of the brand, like banana, grape, or cappuccino. But who knows how much of that survives the burning process.

I've never heard of anyone putting rolling tobacco in a hookah, so I can only speculate. I don't see why it would be so bad, you just won't have to use charcoal to light it.

 

[abstract]

and you sit in the car and it's the carbon monoxide that kills you.

Bunch of other chemicals in a car's exhaust that could kill you. Why do they keep picking on carbon monoxide?

Unless i missed something.

 

[dant]

[Off Topic? Dunno...]

Well, well, this came out:
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/204924-Senate-Bill-Wipes-Out-Indian-Tobacco-Industry

It shows just how insidious greed is and the PTB to stamp it out but, we knew that!

For fun, I was looking at places in my state, to buy tobacco directly from the tribes in
cases where I wanted to continue my "habits" should the supply avenues become
restricted/extinct, so did a search as to where I could just drive to these places and
purchase what I need. So, I did a google search for: "<your state> indian tribes tobacco"
and a long list was produced. I also wondered if there is a law making it illegal to
purchase these products from reservations, but putting this aside for now, I
stumbled on the following:

[Promoting Tobacco Control Policies in Northwest Indian Tribes]
_http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/reprint/85/7/991.pdf

Interesting... establishing a pretext for producing the data to fit the agenda
as with most everything else?

There was another SOTT Forum thread that discusses growing
your own, but in another forum, it was found to be illegal to grow
your own, and may cost you big fines (AUS: $50,000)!

Makes me wonder if someday (soon) the Feds will be raiding
homes/places for tobacco stashes/plants like they do with
the prevailing "medicinal" plants... and a prison sentence?

Geez... the PTB never rests... are our days are numbered?

 

[abstract]

Makes me wonder if someday (soon) the Feds will be raiding
homes/places for tobacco stashes/plants like they do with
the prevailing "medicinal" plants... and a prison sentence?

Geez... the PTB never rests... are our days are numbered?

Go ahead and LET THEM TRY! I'm so tired of making nature illegal.

Look, it's like laura keeps sayin' over and over...this is the hysterization of society which comes before the collapse of said society.

They're gonna make anything and everything illegal and when all you can do to avoid trouble is stay in your home with the doors locked and blinds closed,

you're gonna say "wait!!! HOW DID IT GET THIS WAY?" -cue dramatic music-

Edit by Johnno: Abstract, I had to remove an inappropriate sentence.

 

[3DStudent]

Yeah, I have been looking at the PACT act info. I'd like to order some tobacco online before it comes into effect. So I guess we just endure these things until it comes to a critical point where people will then take action.

 

[anart]

Yeah, I have been looking at the PACT act info. I'd like to order some tobacco online before it comes into effect. So I guess we just endure these things until it comes to a critical point where people will then take action.

It is usually the case that once a 'critical point' is reached, it's too late to take action.

 

[Pierre]

I think the method allows a person to inhale a larger quantity of smoke, so that might account for the differences in the study. So instead of taking 3 drags, just take one from the hubbly or whatever one feels comfortable with.

I've been using a water pipe for years and I noticed that, indeed, it allows the user to take a larger quantity of smoke. I assume it's due to the fact that the smoke goes through the water, gets colder and therefore denser. Thus while inhaling the same volume of smoke you also inhale a larger quantity of active molecules.

I don't think hookahs are all that harmful. A lot of tobacco pipes nowadays have plastic in them, just like the hoses do,

Initially I was smoking from plastic water pipe but i got worried since the smoke and the water are in direct contact with the plastic. I noticed that where the smoke starts to reach the water, at the end of the hose, which is close to the lower part of the plastic container, the plastic was getting kind of thinner, I don't know if it melts, burns or dissolves, but it made me suspicious that it could go into my lungs.

Last years I started building glass and metal water pipe. I also replaced the regular glue with wax.

I use a small beer glass bottle for the container. Wine bottle won't work because the glass is thinner and will break when you drill holes. I drill those holes with a stonedrill. Then I stick a metal hose in the glass bottle and seal it with wax.

 

[3DStudent]

FWIW, I found some mini hookahs on ebay that have a metal hose here: _http://cgi.ebay.com/MINI-PERSONAL-HOOKAH-SHISHA-PORTABLE-HOOKAH_W0QQitemZ170414951194QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27ad85cb1a

Belibaste, do you use regular shisha in your hookah?

Edit: Hmm, there's one more thing to consider and that's the use of aluminum foil on the top that you poke holes in. I wonder if any of it would leach into the smoke.