Speculations about the Comet 17P/Holmes

[Simmi]

I don't think "kaboom, splat" refers to a comet. I think that it was a hint about 911.

I will go re-read. There does seem to be two threads of conversation going on concurrently, apologies.

 

[Simmi]

Humm, well, I do rather get the impression that the subject line started with 9/11 and then a conversation drift happened and then you were back to the comet thing again.

Then something about:
A: Wherever you go, the communication will be more succinct. Now, even if
"nothing happens," how long do you expect to remain in your present state?
Can you remember "35 years ago?" Well??

Q: I am thinking! I was just a kid then. Yes, I can remember.

A: How long "back" does it seem?

Q: Sometimes it seems like forever...

---

Does this offer any more clues?

 

[D Rusak]

The inference being, it's heading right for us. Lol.

Comet tails don't work that way. They ALWAYS point away from the Sun. Even when the comet has gone around the sun and is traveling away from it, the tail will point away from the sun in the direction the comet is traveling.

So, why this one does not have a tail is a great curiosity.

and

Due to radiation and solar wind pressure, the tail points always away from the sun, independent of the comet's movement direction. So it may be that the comet apparently - as seen from earth - moves in one direction while the tail points in another direction. That's how I understand it.

Well, what if something else was deflecting the tail in another direction? Perhaps a star not visible to us (brown dwarf? potential sun's companion star?)??

(is this possible? just a speculation. would we be able to see this tail even if another object deflected the tail in some other direction?)

 

[Lucius]

A: No, because you are still thinking 3rd density. Better to have a "front
row seat," and enjoy!

haha , good:)
then we must just know what is going on ? and enjoy it ?

 

[aurora]

_http://weblogs.marylandweather.com/2007/11/comet_holmes_grows_a_tail.html

There are photos here but I could not copy, paste

Comet Holmes grows a tail

Comet Holmes, the oddball comet that erupted into naked-eye visibility almost three weeks ago, now appears in photo imagery to have grown a tail. It's not much as comet tails go. (Here are some photos of Comet McNaught, one of the most spectacular tailed comets in recent years, but hard to see from here when it peaked.)

Holmes' tail is not apparent to the naked eye, and can't readily be seen in binoculars. But long-exposure photography does show a stubby ion tail. It's stubby because it is being blown away from the comet's nucleus - and away from the sun and Earth. So, from our perspective, it looks very short.

More recent images also suggest that a gust of solar wind has actually detached the tail from the nucleus. Here's the Holmes Photo Gallery.

Got 3-D glasses - the kind with red and blue lenses? Try them on this Holmes image.

Holmes was unusual from the beginning. It brightened unexpectedly from a dim dot in telescopes on Oct. 23, to a bright fuzzball in the constellation Perseus on Oct. 24. It was easily visible to the naked eye, although it looked not so much like a comet as just another unfamiliar star in Perseus. Scientists could only speculate about what sort of an eruption or collapse on the comet's icy nucleus might have caused such a huge exhalation of gas and dust.

In binoculars it looked like a ball of cotton, or a gray billiard ball. It was simple to find, and lots of casual backyard stargazers got a look at their first naked-eye comet since 1997.

In recent weeks, Holmes has moved slowly higher in the sky, climbing in Perseus toward the W-shaped Cassiopeia, in the northeastern sky in the evening hours. It has also appeared to dim somewhat to naked-eye observers, perhaps as the dust and gas expelled with its initial brightening began to dissipate.

But the tail came slowly, and is still not apparent to casual observers. Fortunately, we have digital telescopic images and the Web.

Posted by Frank Roylance on November 12, 2007 10:41 AM | Permalink

The following is interesting: (from Space.com)

From deep space

This comet is part of Jupiter's "family" of comets—a group in which the far end of their respective orbits (aphelia) cluster around the orbit of Jupiter and takes 6.88 years to make one circuit around the Sun.

So why would a comet far out in the cold of space suddenly brighten hundreds of thousands of times? What is the source of such energy? Does it come from within the comet or without?

Alas, comets remain largely mysterious.

Comet Holmes is not alone in exhibiting anomalous effects. In the past, other comets have undergone unexpected outbursts in brightness. And this is probably not the first outburst for Comet Holmes: when it was discovered in 1892, it was likely in outburst mode, since it became as bright as fourth magnitude and was dimly visible to the naked eye.

"It appears that it is undergoing an outburst that strikingly parallels [a] famous 1892 event," said comet expert John Bortle.

 

[GRiM]

Does the short tail give a clue as to its composition, I might have missed some information but I think that if it were a ice/dust-comet it would have a longer tail.

 

[Darren]

Comet Holmes relative to the inner planets when it 'lightened', all lined up on one side of the sun:

http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?soln=K077%2F8;cov=0;sstr=17P;orb=1;log=0#phys_par

 

[Cyre2067]

But now reading all the above, it might be that this brightnes of comet Holmes is more than just a comet?

Dunno how you got that out of it. What interested me were the remarks about "nickel" and plasma and EM and stuff passing between the sun, earth and a comet. Re-read the 19 June 1999 session.

Q: Well, there is another thing that the 'Millennium Group' has brought up,
and that is the possibility that there is some object that has entered our
solar system and the increased sun-spot activity and so forth is a reaction
of the sun to this object or objects. Can you comment on this?

A: The sun needs no such prompting to react thusly. It is a reactor, after
all. It tends to react to less than others react to it.

Q: (A) But what is the 'it?' (L) And, the sunspot prediction was around
a hundred the other day, but the actual sun spot activity was 240, I
believe. Now, supposedly, when this Comet Lee swings around the sun during
this period of high sun-spot activity, the Millennium Group are saying that
it is going to discharge the solar capacitor and that there is a possibility
that great bolts of electricity will pass between planets and the comet or
between planets and other planets, or between the sun and the comet, or
something. Is this, in fact, likely to occur?

A: Bolts charge between positive and negative ions. What is the sun's
atomic structure vis a vis its "children?"

Q: (L) I guess the sun is positive and its children are negative, right?

A: We have a physicist present, yes?

Q: (L to A) Is the sun positive or negative? In an atom, what is the
charge of the nucleus? (A to L) The question is: what is plasma coming from
the sun? Electrons. Then what remains is positive. (L) So the sun is
positive, and, since the electrons flow out toward the planets, then the
planets must be negative, right? (A) That's a possibility.

A: Research this for definitive answers to your question. What about the
positive/negative ratio between earth's ionosphere and possible passing
"objects?"

Q: (L) Well, that's what I was asking. These fellows claim that there
will be discharges either between the sun and the comet, or the comet and
the planets, or the planets and the planets, or the sun and the planets...
all the bases are covered!

A: No they have not. What about the "vacuum" of space?

Q: (L) Are you saying that this electrical discharge can't create visible
bolts of lightning because of the vacuum conditions of space?

A: No we are not. We are posing a question in order to stimulate
intellectual debate and inquiry. Learning is fun, after all!

Q: (A) I want to ask about the 'plasma theory of comets' which the
Millennium Group are promoting.

A: The plasma theory is correct, when certain factors are present. Could
it have something to do with the composition of the object in question?

So after re-reading the thread, my initial impression was along the same lines as Irini. I got that Chronicles of Riddick vibe, in the film the invading aliens posed as a comet, only revealing themselves as invaders when they got in orbit. Then Laura points us back to the 6/19/99 bit and so now i'm a bit perplexed.

If we had a spectral analysis of the comet we could determine it's composition and thus determine if it's a candidate for the solar-flare ZAP described above. I'm also having trouble buying that a flare could erupt from the sun and nail the comet given that it's outside the orbit of mars. That seems a bit far, but then again, everything happens sooner or later I suppose.

And then there's still the gripe about the tail. If there was no tail visible, it was either absent, pointing toward, or pointing away from us. If it was absent, that object isn't a comet, by definition. Given Darren's lil pic above, that seems impossible... there should have been a tail. Now apparently there is one, which feels deceptive to me for some reason. I still think it's aliens. lol.

Oh and Joe - I saw the Jebus too! It's a Miracle! Jebus is coming on a comet! wait.. i've heard that one before....

 

[Beorn]

And then there's still the gripe about the tail. If there was no tail visible, it was either absent, pointing toward, or pointing away from us. If it was absent, that object isn't a comet, by definition. Given Darren's lil pic above, that seems impossible... there should have been a tail. Now apparently there is one, which feels deceptive to me for some reason. I still think it's aliens. lol.

Then there's this:

_http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/10/a-tailless-come.html

Astronomers around the northern hemisphere continue to be delighted by the odd 17/P Holmes, which exploded unexpectedly into naked-eye view last week.

But it's an odd little beastie for a number of reasons. Not only has it decided to be this month's unscheduled Times Square of space, pictures show it lacking the traditional comet's tail.

Today astronomers at Quebec's Mont Megantic Observatory say they have observed a "tail-like feature" at last, sort of, using a near-infrared imager. The picture included here is what they're seeing – a bright slightly elongated section, probably a cloud of dust and gas, at about 145 degrees around the face of this photo.

The images "display tantalizing evidence of a tail," they say in a press release today, although noting that the feature does not in fact point in the direction opposite the sun, as do most comet tails.

I'm no astronomer, but I have to say this barely looks like a "tail-like feature" to me. Nevertheless, it's definitely interesting. I'd love to hear more about this puzzling visitor.

(Image: 17/P Holmes as viewed through SIMON, a Near Infrared Polarimetric Imager. Credit: Canadian
Astronomical Society (CASCA), University of Montreal)

Just a thought. If this is not a conventional tail that has it's direction dictated by solar wind and the infrared imager is heat sensing then could it be that the slight hint of a tail that has been described is in fact an indication of direction of travel?

JP.

 

[Rabelais]

Here is a site with some spectral information on Holmes. I don't really know what I am looking at there. Anyone out there with a background in this discipline, please jump in.

Is there anything in this information that might give a clue as to the composition of the core(s)?

http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/holmes/obs.htm

 

[GRiM]

Here is a site with some spectral information on Holmes. I don't really know what I am looking at there. Anyone out there with a background in this discipline, please jump in.

Is there anything in this information that might give a clue as to the composition of the core(s)?

http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/holmes/obs.htm

I dont have the knowledge to determine if this is right or wrong but here is what another person wrote:

This l ong-slit spectrum covers about 2/3 of the visible spectrum. The slit made a spatial slice across the coma, nicking the nucleus. The dark absorption bands are primarily the solar Fraunhofer lines from reflected sunlight (in the blue these can also be seen in the skyglow away from the comet). The bright bands are generated by ionized gas seen extending beyond the inner dust-dominated region.

The most prominent bandhead in the green is due to the C2 molecule, as is the fainter bandhead in the blue. Other emission features in the green and yellow are due to more C2 and NH2.

source: _http://www.spaceweather.com/comets/gallery_holmes_page3.htm?PHPSESSID=df1be2qi1il4jnpenblkqfdnl1

Amine (NH2)
http://www.bionewsonline.com/e/what_is_amino_acid.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NH2


edit: this seems to be a very good "general" thread for 17P/Holmes

_http://mensnewsdaily.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5113

 

[Laura]

If we had a spectral analysis of the comet we could determine it's composition and thus determine if it's a candidate for the solar-flare ZAP described above. I'm also having trouble buying that a flare could erupt from the sun and nail the comet given that it's outside the orbit of mars. That seems a bit far, but then again, everything happens sooner or later I suppose.

I don't think that the point is that a flare would "nail the comet," but rather that the comet might act as a "ground". A solar flare that would erupt as EM energy flowing toward a "ground" wouldn't have to nail the comet to cause US problems.

The other thing that interests me is the reference to nickel and cobalt. Let me go through this and make some comments in brackets:

Q: (L) You said that the primary composition of this comet is nickel?
A: No, we said "nickel?"

[The Cs used the word "nickel" as a clue... When you think of the word "nickel," what phrase comes to mind? What I think of is "a bright, shiny new nickel."

This current comet is, indeed, bright and shiny. And, without the usual tail, it is rather more round which is also reminiscent of a nickel... ]


Q: (L) What does 'nickel' mean? (A) It's a shiny metal. (L) A coin, a five cent piece...

[Ark got the message: "shiny." And all the hoopla about the sudden brightening... ]

A: What does molten nickel look like against the backdrop of space?

Q: (A) It would look like silver... (L) Would it have a color? (A) I don't think so.

A: Does it conduct electricity? Is it magnetic?

[Here, the Cs are suggesting that comets may be composed of something other than ice and a few rocks, that they can be conductive... which means that they could act as a "ground." One wonders, of course, if the sudden brightening of this comet has anything to do with the grounding effect. If you look at what Darren found, that the planets were all basically lined up, then you could think that this would be a powerful ground for EM energy of some sort passing through all the planets to the comet. It may not even be the comet that is important, it may be that the line-up of the planets IS important. Remember this:]

the
Millennium Group are saying that it is going to discharge the solar capacitor and that
there is a possibility that great bolts of electricity will pass between planets and the comet
or between planets and other planets, or between the sun and the comet, or something. Is
this, in fact, likely to occur?

A: Bolts charge between positive and negative ions. What is the sun's atomic structure
vis a vis its "children?"

[Keep in mind that a "bolt" does not have to be visible ... but it may have been made visible by the Comet as evidenced in its sudden brightening, after the "bolt" passed through the lined up planets... And we have NO idea what this kind of energy passing through the planets can do. The C's made a remark about the ionosphere:]

A: Research this for definitive answers to your question. What about the
positive/negative ratio between earth's ionosphere and possible passing "objects?"


[Now, let's come back to the session in order:]


Q: (A) Yes, it can conduct, but its not magnetic. Why 'molten?'
A: What about the "tail" of such an object coming into contact with the ionosphere?

Q: (L) Oh. I think I get it. The Nostradamus thing about a great comet's tail or
something... let me look it up:

After great trouble for humanity, a greater one is prepared
The Great Mover renews the ages:
Rain, blood, milk, famine, steel and plague,
Is the heavens fire seen, a long spark running.

[And this is, I think, the major clue: that the comet is a harbinger. This comet, itself, may not be an agent of change, but merely shows up at the same time that something else is happening - that MAY NOT BE VISIBLE. Also, the comet and the agent of change may be unrelated in direct terms, and only related in the sense of "harbinger and event." That's why I included the other session which said:]

Q: (A) Okay, that's it. I have some idea about this. Now, I
understand that, either by chance or by accident, two
things are going to happen at essentially the same time.
That is the passing of this brown star, and this comet
cluster. These are two different things?

A: Yes. Different, but related.

and

Q: (L) And in addition to that comet cluster, there are also
additional comets that are going to get whacked into the
solar system by the passing of this brown star?
A: Yes.

and

A: Disasters involve cycles in the human experiential cycle
which corresponds to the passage of comet cluster.

and

Q: (L) Okay, all of these freaky weather patterns and bizarre
things going on on the planet, how does it relate to the
comet cluster and the brown star? Is it related?

A: Human experiential cycle intersects.

and

A: Did you catch the significance of the answer regarding
time table of cluster and brown star? Human cycle mirrors
cycle of catastrophe. Earth benefits in form of periodic
cleansing. Time to start paying attention to the signs.
They are escalating. They can even be "felt" by you and
others, if you pay attention.

[FELT - - i.e. Global "warming", etc.]


and

A: Approach of wave stimulates precursor activity which in
turn causes effects which in turn stimulates further
"heating up" of activity...

and:

A: Global warming, a part of the human experiential cycle.

and

Q: (L) Okay, is there anyway we could graph this ourselves,
and if so, what types of events would we include to create
the background data?

A: "El Nino, La Nina," etc...

[Just the other day I was writing about La Nina... ]


Q: This one is supposed to refer to something that occurs at the turn of the Millennium... is
this what we are getting at here? Something that will look like a 'long spark running'
which then comes in contact with the ionosphere which may exchage potentials with the
earth by virtue of this conducting, molten nickel tail? Yes????? Is that good?

A: Ask Arkadiusz.

[Notice that they refer to Ark to answer the question. ]

Q: (L) Well, honey... am I on to something here? (A) The point is that this comet is in
space. Space is rather cold, so the question is: what would make nickel molten? (L)
Well, it will be close to the sun! That will heat it up! (A) This particular comet is not
going to come close enough to the sun to melt it! (L) Well then, how can the nickel be
molten???

A: What about flares?

[The Cs are trying to make us think in a particular way here, they are not saying that a "flare" is the answer.]

Q: (L) That's it! A bodacious solar flare! And, combined with the bodacious solar flare
is a change of trajectory because of its accumulation of matter... so that it is closer to the
sun ... (A) But it is not coming close enough to the sun to be caught in a solar flare!

A: Is nickel magnetic?

Q: (L) No. What does it mean to this subject that a nickel is not magnetic?

A: Does nickel have a companion?

Q: A) Well, when we say a 'companion,' it means another metal in the same family in the
Mendeleev Table. I believe that cobalt and Nickel are in the same family, but I will have
to check...

A: And cobalt is invisible in the good old vacuum of space, but not nickel!

Q: L) Does that mean it will attract cobalt?

A: No, cobalt will attract.

Q: L) The cobalt will attract flares... electromagnetic phenomena...
A: Et al.

[This is what makes me wonder if there is stuff out there composed of cobalt that we do not see? Is there a a cloud of cobalt around this comet that is way bigger than anything we notice? Is this cobalt accompanied by nickel? Is something else unusual going to happen with this comet as it gets closer? ]

Q: (L) I see.
A: Now, you need to know the composition of this comet... And any other closely
following same. We have alluded to the increased cometary activity before. Oort, and
that which cyclically disturbs it.

[This final remark was about the comet under discussion at the time. We could say that the current comet is one that "closely follows" the comet of 1999. ]


In short, this is a puzzle, the Cs have given some clues, all of these clues are connecting in my head and what concerns me most is:

After great trouble for humanity, a greater one is prepared
The Great Mover renews the ages:
Rain, blood, milk, famine, steel and plague,
Is the heavens fire seen, a long spark running.

We have certainly had great trouble in the form of 911 and the subsequent wars and anti-human activity disguised as "The War Against Terror."

Now, what if this quatrain does not necessarily refer to a celestial phenomenon, but rather something like a new 911?

This takes us back to the other Nostradamus quatrain that I think referred to 911. So, let's look at that, again, with comments in brackets:

[session excerpt]
Apparently there is a newly discovered comet that some people are suggesting fits the
prophecies of Nostradamus where he says in quatrain 10.72:

L'an mil neuf cens nonante neuf sept mois,
Du ciel viendra vn grand Roy d'effrayeur:
Resusciter le grand Roy d'Angolmois,
Auant apres Mars regner par bon-heur.

which translates into English:

The year 1999, seventh month,

[notice the combination of numbers - only three 9s and a 1. Can we think that the code is to reverse the arrangement: 9111? In that case, we only have to figure out why we must drop one of the 1s. Even without dropping one of the 1s, it's damn synchronistic if you ask me! The "seventh month" is simple - "Sept" - not July.]

From the sky will come a great King of Terror:

[The word is quite appropriate... "terror," as in "terrorist." But we know that it wasn't an ordinary terrorist, but rather an "official act of terrorism by a nation state."]

To bring back to life the great King of the Mongols,

In my "Mongols series, I am going in the direction of showing that the Ashkenazi Jews are descendants of the Khazars, and it was the Khazars who were the "mongols." ]

Before and after Mars to reign by good luck.

[Mars can be taken to mean War, but we also notice that the war on Iraq was begun in March... Perhaps we should now be looking for something else to happen in March? I'm not attached to that idea, just tossing it out there.]

[back to the session]

The reason for the comparison is because it is thought that Nostradamus was referring to
September and NOT July, and, in point of fact, this comet will have made its circuit
around the by September, and some folks are theorizing that it could be 'vacuuming' and
picking up a lot of matter which could slow it down, change its direction, and cause it to
interact with the Earth in a detrimental way. Is this, in fact, going to happen?

A: Nostradamus had a specific date tied to a vague prediction.

Q: You are right. Yes, that's true. Are you suggesting that there is some other event
besides a cometary one that he is referring to in this prediction?

A: If he was, let it not be known. The question is: is "1999" a number, or is it more?

[This is interesting, isn't it, in retrospect. The Cs almost definitely confirm that this quatrain has nothing to doe with a comet, but rather something that "let it not be known." That is, a conspiracy, something covert. In the terms that I have used above, reversing the number to 9111 seems to make a clear connection (to me, anyway).]

Q: You mean that 1999 could imply a code of some sort?

A: Perhaps it is best for you to see events in this subject unfold, then analyze later.
Maybe it is a beginning of a cycle...

[And it sure was! When was the election held that put Bush in power? And the use of the word "cycle": we come back to: ]

Disasters involve cycles in the human experiential cycle
which corresponds to the passage of comet cluster.
*******************

I hope I have been clear on this, if not, fire away.

 

[Petey of Lone Tree]

Laura wrote:

Can we think that the code is to reverse the arrangement: 9111? In that case, we only have to figure out why we must drop one of the 1s.

Why "drop one of the 1s"? With it "in", the code becomes a little more obscure, but then it reads almost perfectly in a numerical sense--09/11/01.

 

[Zadius Sky]

I am not sure if this would be of some interest.

I just noticed on _spaceweather.com today where coronal holes of the Sun are large at the moment.

Tonday, Japan's Hinode spacecraft is monitoring a large dark hole in the sun's atmosphere--a coronal hole.

Coronal holes are vast regions where the sun's magnetic field opens up and and allows solar wind to escape. A solar wind stream issuing from this hole is blowing against Earth and it could spark a geomagnetic storm. High-latitude sky watchers should be alert for auroras in the nights ahead.

Since all the planets are lined up, the Sun's solar wind will hit all inner planets including Earth. Its effect on the comet may or may not be affected, but we'll see...

Just thought I'd throw this in the pot here.

 

[Jacques]

notice the combination of numbers - only three 9s and a 1. Can we think that the code is to reverse the arrangement: 9111? In that case, we only have to figure out why we must drop one of the 1s. Even without dropping one of the 1s, it's damn synchronistic if you ask me! The "seventh month" is simple - "Sept" - not July.

I might be way out but 9111 does look like 9|11 which look like 9/11. Which meant we do not have to drop one 1 but just bend it a bit to do a / with it.

my 2 cents.