'Survivors' by Terry Nation British TV series 1975-19

[Gawan]

There's also the problem that these people are really ignorant of psychopathology. It's painful to watch them try to live by their old life, fake moralistic ideals while people are getting hurt as a result of it.

And everyone with their own philosophies/worldviews i.e. programs. Anyway, how to give people for example knowledge that is provided on the forum and in many books (after such a bad incident like a flu pandemic), since many people are unfortunately ignorant and will be, as it can be seen in the series? Or wouldn't it matter in a sense, whatever may happen in the future (comets...), cause everything has to be relearned for another big cycle?

 

[theos]

I've watchedd up to series three. It is a good show and gives you plenty to think about. I don't think that one can ever be overprepared for the future.

It drags a bit and I have to keep myself from yelling at the characters and their goofball decision-making. It's good that the main characters are so kind but knowledge of psychopathy is just as important as animal husbandry skills. Oh, and the poor people are so fixated on bread.

 

[Nicholas]

I have enjoyed watching the first two seasons so far. This is the first series I have ever watched without background music. Very refreshing change!

I find it instructional to watch this series. It makes me wonder if I would have more insight, with what I have learned here on the forum, being in their shoes as I am as an onlooker.

 

[Aiming]

There's also the problem that these people are really ignorant of psychopathology. It's painful to watch them try to live by their old life, fake moralistic ideals while people are getting hurt as a result of it.

And everyone with their own philosophies/worldviews i.e. programs. Anyway, how to give people for example knowledge that is provided on the forum and in many books (after such a bad incident like a flu pandemic), since many people are unfortunately ignorant and will be, as it can be seen in the series? Or wouldn't it matter in a sense, whatever may happen in the future (comets...), cause everything has to be relearned for another big cycle?

It also stood out for me that the issue of psychopathology next to psychological disintegration and dealing with those people would be the toughest challenge. I somehow think that survival in and of itself would be rather easily manageable in a mutually supportive group compared to the disruptive influences of ponerization. (Even though there is no way to separate the two in this world, apparently). And I also thought of how and if it is even possible to make people see this pathology - say, I find myself in a group of peeps and a dangerous pathological is wreaking havoc, but upon calling him out, everyone else will just excuse him/her, a la "But we need each other, don't make waves here." etc. And that's just one possible scenario.

In any case, thanks for recommending this series. I also find it instructive and thought-provoking.

 

[Laura]

I've watchedd up to series three. It is a good show and gives you plenty to think about. I don't think that one can ever be overprepared for the future.

It drags a bit and I have to keep myself from yelling at the characters and their goofball decision-making. It's good that the main characters are so kind but knowledge of psychopathy is just as important as animal husbandry skills. Oh, and the poor people are so fixated on bread.

Yes, it drags sometimes and I observe myself being impatient. I sure do scream at them in my head sometimes. But then, I realize that this really is how many ordinary people who have not been occupied gathering knowledge and working on themselves would actually behave - or even worse.

I have enjoyed watching the first two seasons so far. This is the first series I have ever watched without background music. Very refreshing change!

I find it instructional to watch this series. It makes me wonder if I would have more insight, with what I have learned here on the forum, being in their shoes as I am as an onlooker.

These are all questions that we can be asking ourselves. We can watch these people making these huge mistakes, doing really stupid things, bumbling along, and think about how WE would handle similar situations.

And yeah, you really do realize that unless people have a good level of knowledge and really, REALLY good habits of communication/networking, it's just going to be a mess.

In the case of the series, sometimes things turn out "okay" by accident, but it is always at a cost that might have been avoided if they had paid with their self-importance and illusions up front.

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

And I also thought of how and if it is even possible to make people see this pathology - say, I find myself in a group of peeps and a dangerous pathological is wreaking havoc, but upon calling him out, everyone else will just excuse him/her, a la "But we need each other, don't make waves here." etc. And that's just one possible scenario.

My thoughts exactly. Many people simply don't want (cannot?) see, even with repeated evidence. People have these huge programs of 'judge not lest ye be judged' and they just throw all common sense out of the window because of it. I see it every day. Pathological people hurting others purposefully, and when the victims are told the truth about them, they still choose the side of the pathologicals... It's quite disheartening. And since psychopaths in hard times will try to take over and lead people for their own gain and since many people are authoritarian followers afraid of thinking by themselves and too happy that s.o. volunteers to guide them, there's yet another recipe for disaster...

 

[Oxajil]

And I also thought of how and if it is even possible to make people see this pathology - say, I find myself in a group of peeps and a dangerous pathological is wreaking havoc, but upon calling him out, everyone else will just excuse him/her, a la "But we need each other, don't make waves here." etc. And that's just one possible scenario.

My thoughts exactly. Many people simply don't want (cannot?) see, even with repeated evidence. People have these huge programs of 'judge not lest ye be judged' and they just throw all common sense out of the window because of it. I see it every day. Pathological people hurting others purposefully, and when the victims are told the truth about them, they still choose the side of the pathologicals... It's quite disheartening. And since psychopaths in hard times will try to take over and lead people for their own gain and since many people are authoritarian followers afraid of thinking by themselves and too happy that s.o. volunteers to guide them, there's yet another recipe for disaster...

If such a situation would occur, and there are atleast some people (or even one person) who would agree that there is (or are) a pathological person within the group manipulating and causing distress, I would then rather leave the group with the people who agree that this person is causing havoc, than to stay and see how ignorant everyone is being with more and more (emotional or even physical) damage being done. Would it be wiser to leave and put energy and effort into other things? Or would it be best to stay as there is the possibility that when the damage done by this pathological person becomes so obvious and so problematic that atleast some more people would notice? But then as you guys say, there are the "forgive and forget" people, and such dynamics in a group can be quite tiring, like having a repeated harmful cycle going on. So maybe then the best thing would be to leave and to try to atleast form some kind of balanced group, if possible, and to spread awareness of this type of people, and at the same time work on things that are important, like sharing food, thinking about what to do next and so forth. I could be wrong here in my thinking, so fwiw.

 

[seek10]

And I also thought of how and if it is even possible to make people see this pathology - say, I find myself in a group of peeps and a dangerous pathological is wreaking havoc, but upon calling him out, everyone else will just excuse him/her, a la "But we need each other, don't make waves here." etc. And that's just one possible scenario.

My thoughts exactly. Many people simply don't want (cannot?) see, even with repeated evidence. People have these huge programs of 'judge not lest ye be judged' and they just throw all common sense out of the window because of it. I see it every day. Pathological people hurting others purposefully, and when the victims are told the truth about them, they still choose the side of the pathologicals... It's quite disheartening. And since psychopaths in hard times will try to take over and lead people for their own gain and since many people are authoritarian followers afraid of thinking by themselves and too happy that s.o. volunteers to guide them, there's yet another recipe for disaster...

If such a situation would occur, and there are atleast some people (or even one person) who would agree that there is (or are) a pathological person within the group manipulating and causing distress, I would then rather leave the group with the people who agree that this person is causing havoc, than to stay and see how ignorant everyone is being with more and more (emotional or even physical) damage being done. Would it be wiser to leave and put energy and effort into other things? Or would it be best to stay as there is the possibility that when the damage done by this pathological person becomes so obvious and so problematic that atleast some more people would notice? But then as you guys say, there are the "forgive and forget" people, and such dynamics in a group can be quite tiring, like having a repeated harmful cycle going on. So maybe then the best thing would be to leave and to try to atleast form some kind of balanced group, if possible, and to spread awareness of this type of people, and at the same time work on things that are important, like sharing food, thinking about what to do next and so forth. I could be wrong here in my thinking, so fwiw.

If the past (of pathology) is of indication of future, pathologicals won't allow to choose as they are parasites. their strength is other obedience. freedom is as contagious as pathology. Literally all freedom struggles are full of these examples. The only choice is educating the non pathologicals rather secretly , thus countering/cutting the wings of pathologicals. If more pathologicals survive than normal people, the game is already lost.

 

[Bluestar]

There's also the problem that these people are really ignorant of psychopathology. It's painful to watch them try to live by their old life, fake moralistic ideals while people are getting hurt as a result of it.

The Power and Order episode in series one has struck a huge cord with me. Brought up some kind of program or sacred cow thingy. Don't want to spoil the show for anyone so I will speak in metaphors.

You have a situation where an unjustly act has taken place. One person is accused and a quick judgment is taken where an innocent person is convicted of the crime all the while the actual person sits and watches the whole process. Then after the fact and the damage done, the truth comes out. How does the group live with themselves?

The main character Abby is constantly making decisions that effect the whole group. And as Laura posted, people get hurt in the process. Yes, it is entertainment, but there are many important points brought up should this thing happen today. Don't think that we would be able to apply the old ways of doing things. New concepts have to be birthed on how to deal with criminal activity and new parameters of what is criminal. Is consensus appropriate? Democratic votes? It would be a heavy burden for just one person that is non-pathological. We have discussed much of this here no sense in getting into again.

This show is based around large population loss. What if the population does not lose millions? Then there are that many more people "fighting" for survival. Was watching the American TV show "Revolution" (_http://www.nbc.com/revolution/) and it's premise is that an EM wave knocks out all power for good. Everyone survives. A militia is created and the same old fear and struggles occur. About 10 minutes into the show, our power went out. Oh what a feeling of unknowing. Was it just us, our neighborhood, the world? Many thoughts went through my mind. First I had to go out and see what was what. Saw it was everyone around me. Then called the power company and found out the issue. Then waited in the dark (candles) for 2 hours before it was turned on again. Irony at it's best I think. I was not frightened, concerned yes. Did not feel anxious, just needed to find out what was up. And once I knew, then I got to thinking about this thread. wrote a long journal entry and went to sleep.

Gonna watch episode 11 series 1 today at some point.

Edit- fixed the title of the episode*

 

[Atuya]

Totally engaging and thought provoking material. FWIW, I find the mis-en-scene to be enjoyable, white low-heel shoes and all.

I've also watched with exasperation as the protagonists of the series continue to make bad decisions as a result of their limited knowledge. However, through the first six episodes they continue to blaze a trail based on some inner AIM that hasn't brought them much good, but importantly hasn't seen them become obsessed/stuck in someone else's fixed ideas. Which is to say, things could have already ended badly if they were absolutely lacking at least *some* critical thinking.

An interesting detail presented is when it's said that not one survivor had known previously another survivor, nor known somebody who was known by another survivor (well, this is contradicted by the fact that the big-dog psychopath was already known because he was a politician/union leader). FWIW. Anybody here that can relate to that? ;)

Reflecting on these first six episodes, I get the notion to start immediately, as if there has already been societal collapse, and every person I meet tomorrow is another survivor looking to gain another day of life. To go cautiously into the world with my own AIM and evaluate every card dealt before I discard or hold.

Each character in the show is a spore of human life in its totality, and from what I've seen so far, most of the surviving spores are doomed for STS travesties of life.

Also presented is the quickness of authoritarian camps to eliminate or subjugate the others who don't follow them. Recognizing these types and deciding to move along and leave the group must be done instantaneously! But this doesn't exactly solve the longer term problem of these pathological groups slowly infiltrating and dominating other groups over 500 years, vis a vis the Roman empire. And as far as the "Survivors" series goes, I'm sure that I've not seen the last of those bastard "New British Government" goons. How would you propose stalking and enclosing on that group?

 

[loreta]

Yesterday I saw the chapter Power and Order. I was very angry with the attitude of Mr. Greg. I don't like him, he is really an authoritarian type of man. And Abby also is very authoritarian. Both of them are characters that I don't like anymore. What was interesting to see in this chapter was the division between men and women and even then, women did nothing to change the situation. (I don't explain this because maybe some of you did not saw the chapter yet). But I was very chocked by the decision and very sad also to see how people are unable to defend others even if they think they are innocent. Mr. Greg is really antipathetic. If I was in this group I will leave the group right now. He is a "little" dictator, and as he say, a "manager". What the group did is inconceivable for me. Their vision of what is just or not. I think that maybe this chapter is what we use to say: there is a before and a after and nothing now is like before.

We can see how Mr. Greg is, the little remorse, and also Abby. Power is their objective. Interesting, yes indeed.

 

[Gertrudes]

Yesterday I saw the chapter Power and Order. I was very angry with the attitude of Mr. Greg. I don't like him, he is really an authoritarian type of man. And Abby also is very authoritarian. Both of them are characters that I don't like anymore. What was interesting to see in this chapter was the division between men and women and even then, women did nothing to change the situation. (I don't explain this because maybe some of you did not saw the chapter yet). But I was very chocked by the decision and very sad also to see how people are unable to defend others even if they think they are innocent. Mr. Greg is really antipathetic. If I was in this group I will leave the group right now. He is a "little" dictator, and as he say, a "manager". What the group did is inconceivable for me. Their vision of what is just or not. I think that maybe this chapter is what we use to say: there is a before and a after and nothing now is like before.

We can see how Mr. Greg is, the little remorse, and also Abby. Power is their objective. Interesting, yes indeed.

Yeah, I just finished watching that episode. Pretty disturbing. I wouldn't say that Greg and Abby's objective is power though, at least right now I'm not reading it that way, although that might change as the series develops.
To me they seem like two people trying to manage a community, making serious mistakes along the way due to their very poor knowledge and lack of self work. About them not showing remorse, if there is one thing I think that the way the series is directed is to blame, is the overall lack of emotional display in the face of things that would put any normal human being to pieces, so that may account for that? I mean, awful things happen and they just keep strolling along, showing only a little bit of discomfort...why, I feel way more discomfortable then they seem to be, and I'm just watching it!

***Spoiler alert******
I simply can't understand how a group can make such a serious decision regarding Barney with so little data. I mean, it's a person's life we're talking about for Christ's sake.... Ok, we think it's him, out of all the other people living within the community, none of which were questioned, not to mentioned the possibility of an outsider having broken into the building whilst the party was going on, still, we think it is him, let's kill him! Never mind gathering more data, never mind giving ourselves more time to find the right course of action.

What bothered me also was the fact that despite all evidence from the beginning of the series, and there was plenty, that Price was a very, very shady character, they kept him because they needed him. And after two of them knew the truth about Wendy's murder, they still kept him because he was needed/useful. Sure, he murdered someone, but he's got a good pare of spare hands, so why not keep him?? Greg's last decision was extremely poor, not just because of his total lack of perspective of the overall situation, but even using his own very narrow reasoning which seems to be strictly confined to the number of people they have, what about the fact that Price has made them lose 4 spare hands?
Contextualizing this within my own life, how many things might I have lost due to giving in to an immediate need?

Feelings of "need" have been brought up several times under different circumstances in the series, and those feelings were responsible for some of the worst decisions several of the characters have made, as I see it. It has made me ponder though, with the survival mechanism being triggered so quickly and strongly one is likely much more vulnerable to feelings of self interest and egoism, and finding that barrier between a natural instinct of survival of the self, and needs in the name of self interest, can become extremely foggy....worrying indeed.

 

[Chrissy]

***Spoiler alert******
I simply can't understand how a group can make such a serious decision regarding Barney with so little data. I mean, it's a person's life we're talking about for Christ's sake.... Ok, we think it's him, out of all the other people living within the community, none of which were questioned, not to mentioned the possibility of an outsider having broken into the building whilst the party was going on, still, we think it is him, let's kill him! Never mind gathering more data, never mind giving ourselves more time to find the right course of action.

*****spoiler alert******

I agree! A man's fate was decided in a few hours based more on feeling than evidence. There was no investigation shown to be done and no further questioning of Barney. Could he have shown them where he killed the rabbit with possibly blood on the ground. Would it have come out at a later date that Tom told him about Wendy's murder? No one was physically examined for scratches or bruises. I couldn't see any form of creative thinking on what other scenarios could have been the cause of death of Wendy.
I am very curious to see the further development of these characters and what paths they take. The final decision to not tell anyone really got me. Seems they're community is taking the same shape of society as we know now. The ones in charge know more than the citizens with the excuse that it's for their benefit.

 

[Laura]

Yup, that was the episode when I decided that we all need to be watching this just for the lessons about the behavior of people who do not have knowledge nor have they worked on themselves, and to understand how societies form. We ALMOST decided to stop watching the whole thing after that episode because we were SOOO steamed about it. I mean, making that HUGE, HUGE mistake due to lack of knowledge, care, patience, and the COMPOUNDING IT in the worst possible way by concealing it!!! I mean, what kind of community can you have if stuff like that goes on???

 

[Gertrudes]

Yup, that was the episode when I decided that we all need to be watching this just for the lessons about the behavior of people who do not have knowledge nor have they worked on themselves, and to understand how societies form. We ALMOST decided to stop watching the whole thing after that episode because we were SOOO steamed about it. I mean, making that HUGE, HUGE mistake due to lack of knowledge, care, patience, and the COMPOUNDING IT in the worst possible way by concealing it!!! I mean, what kind of community can you have if stuff like that goes on???

Precisely!
It was all so wrong one doesn't even know where to begin!!
Now imagine the internal scar this leaves, the scar of a heinous act but worse, the scar of acknowledging (partly) the mistake, and keeping it secret from others? How would you ever be able to live with that? And they only acknowledged that they got the wrong man, whilst the ENTIRE scenario was just plain WRONG....boy, oh boy.....the seeds of intrigue, lies, and internal corruption have been abundantly sowed...isn't that familiar?

I mean, what kind of community can you have if stuff like that goes on???

The type of larger scale, men on planet earth "community" we have today?..........


Added:

Seems they're community is taking the same shape of society as we know now.

Indeed.