The Carnivore Diet

ScioAgapeOmnis

The Living Force
Well, it would be interesting to see some science that supports this diet. Dr. Greger, the guy who founded nutritionfacts.org and has read thousands of scientific papers on nutrition, says that a plant-based diet is ideal for optimum human health. It would seem that the positive effects some people are experiencing on the carnivore diet come from the fact that the diet itself eliminates other substances that caused harm to their digestive systems in the past (e.g. processed foods etc.). The same effects would be seen on most other mono diets.

Well there is a lot of science that supports ketogenic diet, and the benefits of animal fats and proteins. There’s also the information about the nutrient bioavailability and density in meats vs the lack thereof in many plants due to anti-nutrients. We also have a good idea of what sugar and insulin spikes do to people over time. And there is also a lot of studies on intermittent fasting as a beneficial eating modality. So people just put 2 and 2 together and basically you have the carnivore diet. There are also studies on cultures that have eaten primarily meat and fat as well.

I think Dr Gregers is just promoting an ideology, but the science does not support it. And since Veganism has been around for a while, we also have their experiences as a data point, and there are a myriad of health problems associated with their way of eating. Just the fact that their diet requires supplements to make up the nutritional deficiencies from lack of animal products is enough reason to take pause.

So I would say it’s the other way around - those who switch to plant based often see improvements because of less junk and processed foods, not because of the diet. Also, seeds and nuts actually require a lot of processing just to be edible and not acutely toxic, like soaking and other methods. On top of that, something like oxalates are not reduced by most of those methods anyway.

And of course you have the basic logic that if you take away farms and such, and place yourself in a forest, good luck finding enough non-animal food naturally growing around you to sustain yourself. Almost everything that moves can be eaten, but vast majority of plants cannot. So it just makes sense that outside of very special and seasonal circumstances in specific parts of the world, it was just much easier for humans to find and eat animals for most of our past.
 

Goemon_

Jedi Master
Oui c'est très bien!!
Une idée: tu peux mettre du gras (la graisse animale, tu peux demander au boucher du coin, en général il le donne gratuit car d'habitude ça part à la poubelle, ce qui est du gros gachis) dans le four et ça te donne 2 choses intéressantes:
1- du saindoux pour la partie qui a fondu. Ce saindoux tu peux l'utiliser pour cuisiner à la place du beurre, et le beurre tu continues à le manger non cuit pour préserver sa vitamine A et autres merveilleux nutriments que nous donnent généreusement nos animaux.
2- des "chips de graisse"; la partie qui reste. C'est délicieux

Deelp translation:
Yes, it's very good!!
An idea: you can put fat (animal fat, you can ask the local butcher, usually he gives it for free because it usually goes to the trash, which is a big waste) in the oven and it gives you 2 interesting things:

1- lard for the part that melted. This lard can be used to cook instead of butter, and butter is still eaten uncooked to preserve its vitamin A and other wonderful nutrients that our animals generously give us.

2- "fat chips"; the remaining part. It's delicious.
The right french word for "chips de graisse" is 'grattons', also known as 'grillons' and 'frittons' in some parts of France.
The right word for "fat chips" is 'pork scratchings'
 

anartist

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
I have a little problem with the carnivore diet. To me it is a little bit of overconsumption of proteins. As far I as understand the proper diet, the body can produce energy mostly either from carbs or from ketons. The proteins are used for building your cells and for enzyme production. The proteins can be used for the energy generation, but the underlaying biochemical process is very complicated and the body will switch to it only if it has neither carbs nor ketons available for the energy generation. As far as I remember, the Inuits and other hunter-gatherer tribes have a very high fat diet (somewhere between 50-60%). So, for me, eating lean beef is not providing enough saturated fats to your body and overconsuming proteins. So, I mostly eat meat (pork being my favorite), but I eat it with copious amount of fat. The pork I buy locally has 50% fat in it (or more) and I often cook (fry? bake?) bacon (also very fat) in the oven. I am simply not able to only eat lean beef in any great amount, unless it swims in lard or other fat I add to it. So, for me, the carnivore diet may work for some time quite OK, but eventually you need to add some saturated animal fat, which is the the main (?) source of vitamine B. In fact, I feel the best when I eat lots of fat and moderate (around 30%) amount of meat and SKIP vegetables entirely. When I eat vegetables, I try to eat them as seperate meal for dinner (around 18:00) and not mix them into my lunch, but I eat veggies only once or twice a week at most and I add lots of animal fat to the salad. If I eat veggies without the fat, my digestion is always impacted negatively, especially the intestines.

Just my 3 cents...I may be wrong on some points, so feel free to point it out.
Well you do mention that the body can produce energy mostly from Carbohydrates(glucose) or Ketones, but you left out Fat. I think Fat is used for energy in the body, and Ketones from Fat are used by the body, but more specifically in the brain and heart for example. A carnivore diet does not, to me anyway, mean eating lean meat. It would seem that the original Carnivores were eating large mammals with quite a bit of fat on them, and to recreate this form of eating we have to add fat to the mammals we eat in order to try and match what the early carnivores were eating. I agree with most of what you've written above, and I am only emphasizing that when we are fat burners we are using fat and ketones for energy, as well as glucose produced via gluconeogenesis,
 
So I would say it’s the other way around - those who switch to plant based often see improvements because of less junk and processed foods, not because of the diet.
As a personal experience, I've never felt as good as the days of the ultra simple diet, where I ate very little meat and even then only fish. It was mostly grains and vegetables. The "high" that some people get on keto I got on the ultra simple diet. I cannot dismiss the effects of some nutrients that all those vegetables contained but I think a significant part of the positive effect was due to exactly what you said, giving up junk and processed foods.


And of course you have the basic logic that if you take away farms and such, and place yourself in a forest, good luck finding enough non-animal food naturally growing around you to sustain yourself. Almost everything that moves can be eaten, but vast majority of plants cannot. So it just makes sense that outside of very special and seasonal circumstances in specific parts of the world, it was just much easier for humans to find and eat animals for most of our past.
I watched a documentary once about a family of indians in a jungle somewhere in South America that still lived like their ancestors. The father and the elder son would hunt monkeys. To do that they had to make some kind of paralyzing poison which took days of work and a lot of expertise to prepare, then they made blow darts to dip in the poison. As for the hunt itself, it took a long time to find the monkey and hit it with multiple blow darts as it tried to escape high up in the trees. And then the monkey got paralyzed on top of a tree, so the father had to climb up to get it. It was a lot of work for very little meat. They also planted some root vegetables but I don't remember which. And they were nomadic, so they had the custom of burning down their house and vegetable garden at every move. Overall it seemed food was not abundant or easy to get, if I remember correctly meat was highly prized but they depended on plants for a lot of their sustenance.

I don't intend to generalize this case, their situation was in large part dictated by their environment and the technology they had available, but I find it a good reminder that even with plenty of animals around it was not always so easy for our ancestors to fill their bellies with tasty meat.
 
After reading this thread I thought I would give this a go. I have nothing to lose since my normal diet is terrible. I am completely inept about eating properly and regularly and have been so for the best part of twenty years. Somehow I am still alive!

I went to my local supermarket which is handily two minutes walk away and picked up a cheap 500g packet of beef mince. I could have gone for steak mince but that was more expensive and leaner so I decided that I would rather have that tasty fat! I fried it up with some lard I had in the fridge and had to leave at least half of it because I was full. That will do for an easy breakfast tomorrow.

I am going to have to look into what to cook on this diet as I think that I would get very bored with it very quickly without adequate variety. However, I have decided not to jump right into the deep end of this diet yet so will allow myself eggs and dairy products which I fortunately love. That will help. If I cut out processed foods and all those bad carbs this will be worth doing if only for that.
 

nature

Jedi Council Member
After reading this thread I thought I would give this a go. I have nothing to lose since my normal diet is terrible. I am completely inept about eating properly and regularly and have been so for the best part of twenty years. Somehow I am still alive!

I went to my local supermarket which is handily two minutes walk away and picked up a cheap 500g packet of beef mince. I could have gone for steak mince but that was more expensive and leaner so I decided that I would rather have that tasty fat! I fried it up with some lard I had in the fridge and had to leave at least half of it because I was full. That will do for an easy breakfast tomorrow.

I am going to have to look into what to cook on this diet as I think that I would get very bored with it very quickly without adequate variety. However, I have decided not to jump right into the deep end of this diet yet so will allow myself eggs and dairy products which I fortunately love. That will help. If I cut out processed foods and all those bad carbs this will be worth doing if only for that.
Surprisingly, at 6 months, I'm not yet bored.
I used to eat meat well-cooked. Since one week, I eat it bled and I noticed I"m more easily full. Maybe because vitamins are more preserved that way? I even do myself country ham and dried raw sliced beef. It prevents from getting bored + less denatured peoteins, more vitamins. i also do homemade bone broth. Next, I'll try tartar steak, it will add to variety ;-)
My only concern is that I'm not pleased to eat animals. I'm content I don't have to eat plants.
 
Surprisingly, at 6 months, I'm not yet bored.
I used to eat meat well-cooked. Since one week, I eat it bled and I noticed I"m more easily full. Maybe because vitamins are more preserved that way? I even do myself country ham and dried raw sliced beef. It prevents from getting bored + less denatured peoteins, more vitamins. i also do homemade bone broth. Next, I'll try tartar steak, it will add to variety ;-)
My only concern is that I'm not pleased to eat animals. I'm content I don't have to eat plants.
I would rather not have to eat other life forms either but that is reality of life if one is at a 3D level, unfortunately. Thankfully, we have higher densities where we don't eat other life forms to look forward to :-). Unless, of course, one devolves into complete STS annihilation but I think one has to really work at it to get there! :lol:
 
Well I have been doing this now for about a fortnight so thought I would give some feedback.

I have completely cut out processed and junk food so no more doughnuts, :-( biscuits, sweets and snack food. It has been meat e.g. mince, pork chops, bacon or salmon, pan-fried [butter or lard] instead. I have also eaten greek yoghurt and cheddar cheese when I feel the need for a snack and don't want meat sitting in my stomach late in the evening. Drinks have been lots of tap water, tea, decaf/coffee and hot chocolate [naughty because of the sugar in it but :-P]. My diet has been awful for 20 years and I have practically lived on those drinks. It is going to be a tremendous wrench to give those up so that day can wait until I am strong enough to handle it. I am eating more regularly now and although simply, a better quality of food without all that processed junk so I shall celebrate my improvements and not try to scale the mountain in two seconds.

I am yet to develop the ability of flight and controlled telepathy but I live in hope. However, the greatest benefit for me so far is that my energy levels are much improved and pretty stable. I can generally think more clearly and easily too. So I've been able to get more done than I would normally which has given me a boost in mood and morale. For example, I have had a book that I have been wanting to re-read and take notes on that has been high up in priority in my 'to do' list for months but I just couldn't face it. I didn't have the energy or mental focus required to do so. I finally tackled it last night hoping to do one chapter if I was lucky but ended up doing four. That gave me such an emotional high which might sound ridiculous but that has been nagging at my conscience for so long. I am hoping to finish it tonight.

So nothing earth shattering so far but even positive baby steps are very welcome for me. I'll let you know when the flight and telepathy kick in.
 
Well I have been doing this now for about a fortnight so thought I would give some feedback.

I have completely cut out processed and junk food so no more doughnuts, :-( biscuits, sweets and snack food. It has been meat e.g. mince, pork chops, bacon or salmon, pan-fried [butter or lard] instead. I have also eaten greek yoghurt and cheddar cheese when I feel the need for a snack and don't want meat sitting in my stomach late in the evening. Drinks have been lots of tap water, tea, decaf/coffee and hot chocolate [naughty because of the sugar in it but :-P]. My diet has been awful for 20 years and I have practically lived on those drinks. It is going to be a tremendous wrench to give those up so that day can wait until I am strong enough to handle it. I am eating more regularly now and although simply, a better quality of food without all that processed junk so I shall celebrate my improvements and not try to scale the mountain in two seconds.

I am yet to develop the ability of flight and controlled telepathy but I live in hope. However, the greatest benefit for me so far is that my energy levels are much improved and pretty stable. I can generally think more clearly and easily too. So I've been able to get more done than I would normally which has given me a boost in mood and morale. For example, I have had a book that I have been wanting to re-read and take notes on that has been high up in priority in my 'to do' list for months but I just couldn't face it. I didn't have the energy or mental focus required to do so. I finally tackled it last night hoping to do one chapter if I was lucky but ended up doing four. That gave me such an emotional high which might sound ridiculous but that has been nagging at my conscience for so long. I am hoping to finish it tonight.

So nothing earth shattering so far but even positive baby steps are very welcome for me. I'll let you know when the flight and telepathy kick in.
Please do let us know when they kick in! Your experiment certainly sounds promising.
I have been toying with the idea of going "full carnivore" myself as there are so many things I have trouble with - nuts, dairy, chocolate, etc. I went wheat free first over ten years ago, then Paleo, then keto for the last two years (occasionally reverting back to Paleo but never breaking the rule about wheat or grains). I have a husband at home half of the time who isn't even Paleo most of the time, so it requires huge amounts of will power sometimes to even stay as closely (or not some days)keto as I have.
But I'm tired of being just on the edge of the results I'm looking for. And if anybody can go full carnivore with ease it's me - I raise my own pork, beef and have laying hens. It should be a walk in the park. However, I love to cook and try new foods, and I love vegetables. But I feel like food is maybe my one true addiction. Perhaps going carnivore will be beneficial in my spiritual growth?
 
Please do let us know when they kick in! Your experiment certainly sounds promising.
I have been toying with the idea of going "full carnivore" myself as there are so many things I have trouble with - nuts, dairy, chocolate, etc. I went wheat free first over ten years ago, then Paleo, then keto for the last two years (occasionally reverting back to Paleo but never breaking the rule about wheat or grains). I have a husband at home half of the time who isn't even Paleo most of the time, so it requires huge amounts of will power sometimes to even stay as closely (or not some days)keto as I have.
But I'm tired of being just on the edge of the results I'm looking for. And if anybody can go full carnivore with ease it's me - I raise my own pork, beef and have laying hens. It should be a walk in the park. However, I love to cook and try new foods, and I love vegetables. But I feel like food is maybe my one true addiction. Perhaps going carnivore will be beneficial in my spiritual growth?
Will do! :ninja: Perhaps you could just try it for a period? I more or less tried what I am doing on a whim. My nutrition was so poor anyway I thought that it probably couldn't hurt. Try it for 3 months and see how you get on?
 

PERLOU

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
J'ai commencé le régime carnivore depuis le 01 04 19, j'étais à 68kg3.
Aujourd'hui le 20 07 19, je suis à 61kg...
Je mange du steack haché (boeuf d'herbe, paté label rouge,fromage lait cru)

I started the carnivorous diet since 01 04 19, I was at 68kg3.
Today 20 07 19, I am at 61kg....
I eat ground steak (grass beef, red label paté, raw milk cheese)
 

karo

The Force is Strong With This One
Well I have been doing this now for about a fortnight so thought I would give some feedback.

I have completely cut out processed and junk food so no more doughnuts, :-( biscuits, sweets and snack food. It has been meat e.g. mince, pork chops, bacon or salmon, pan-fried [butter or lard] instead. I have also eaten greek yoghurt and cheddar cheese when I feel the need for a snack and don't want meat sitting in my stomach late in the evening. Drinks have been lots of tap water, tea, decaf/coffee and hot chocolate [naughty because of the sugar in it but :-P]. My diet has been awful for 20 years and I have practically lived on those drinks. It is going to be a tremendous wrench to give those up so that day can wait until I am strong enough to handle it. I am eating more regularly now and although simply, a better quality of food without all that processed junk so I shall celebrate my improvements and not try to scale the mountain in two seconds.

I am yet to develop the ability of flight and controlled telepathy but I live in hope. However, the greatest benefit for me so far is that my energy levels are much improved and pretty stable. I can generally think more clearly and easily too. So I've been able to get more done than I would normally which has given me a boost in mood and morale. For example, I have had a book that I have been wanting to re-read and take notes on that has been high up in priority in my 'to do' list for months but I just couldn't face it. I didn't have the energy or mental focus required to do so. I finally tackled it last night hoping to do one chapter if I was lucky but ended up doing four. That gave me such an emotional high which might sound ridiculous but that has been nagging at my conscience for so long. I am hoping to finish it tonight.

So nothing earth shattering so far but even positive baby steps are very welcome for me. I'll let you know when the flight and telepathy kick in.
Thank you for your post, and the previous one too. I read this thread and also saw a youtube video from Mikhaila talking about going carnivore and this seems super promising to me even if I don't have so much trouble with health, but I'm struggling with low energy and long sleep spans and low motivation. So I thought to try avoiding some foods in my diet and just doing so seems to improve mood radically because I see thay I can do that, simply, and that I'm not a puppet of my moods and I try to recognize when this is only craving for some junk as they are addictive and have a discussion inside about what I want for my every day and not for this moment when I hear the voice 'you did a lot and worked out so you should get some ice cream as a reward". I wish everyone much strenght on keeping with the diet, trying on it and doing even baby steps in order to improve every single day. Thanks for your messages that gives a lot of hope and strenght. When you see you are not alone in doing or undoing some things its easier to keep on going.
 
Thank you for your post, and the previous one too. I read this thread and also saw a youtube video from Mikhaila talking about going carnivore and this seems super promising to me even if I don't have so much trouble with health, but I'm struggling with low energy and long sleep spans and low motivation. So I thought to try avoiding some foods in my diet and just doing so seems to improve mood radically because I see thay I can do that, simply, and that I'm not a puppet of my moods and I try to recognize when this is only craving for some junk as they are addictive and have a discussion inside about what I want for my every day and not for this moment when I hear the voice 'you did a lot and worked out so you should get some ice cream as a reward". I wish everyone much strenght on keeping with the diet, trying on it and doing even baby steps in order to improve every single day. Thanks for your messages that gives a lot of hope and strenght. When you see you are not alone in doing or undoing some things its easier to keep on going.
My energy levels are much improved now which has improved my ability to cope with the day to day demands of life so it is definitely worth trying for that reason if nothing else. I know how difficult it is to live with low energy and motivation so this is a most welcome development. Jordan Peterson says that setting ourselves tasks and then achieving them fires up the part of the brain that fires up when we are happy. I have definitely found that to be the case. My normal day sees me struggling to get out of bed with a low mood. It can take a while to get going but once I start doing some chores that lifts my mood and I can do more. I have a book that I had set myself to re-read and take notes from but I failed to do so for the best part of a year. The other day I had done all my daily chores and was looking for something else to tackle. I started on the book hoping to get a chapter done. However, once I had done that it gave me such a lift I ended up doing four chapters in all. For me, that is quite a triumph. That is not every day of course; this diet is not a magic pill that eases all ills, nothing is, but for me, it has proven to be very positive. All the very best karo :hug2:.
 
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