The Case for Eating more Carbs in the Evening

[Yas]

I agree Ant22, I don't think you're damaged beyond repair, but I understand why you might think it's that way. For some time I had health issues even on a very strict keto diet, and I felt that way too. I'm still not completely sure about what made the trick for me and as Laura says, there's no magic bullet that fixes everything for everyone and it takes time to figure out the best approach to our particular conditions.

If I may ask, what exactly are you eating nowadays? Have you tried an elimination diet or protocol like this one or maybe the carnivore diet? From what I've heard so far and my own personal experience, these diets that eliminate almost everything but meats and fats are helpful for people who still have some symptoms with a regular keto/paleo diet. Of course, they are hard to follow for a long period of time, but if you haven't tried it, maybe you can check it out and try it for a few months to see how it goes, then you can reintroduce some other foods one by one to see how you react to them. But, as dugdeep also said, it can take a while to adapt to the diet too, so maybe you won't feel very well for while before you're body adapts to it.

If I remember correctly, you also have a tendency for iron overload, right? My guess is that you already checked this, but just in case, how are your iron/ferritin/etc. levels?

Another thing that comes to mind is the herxeimer or detox reactions from some protocols. I think you've started drinking Quinton water recently, haven't you? Is it possible that this triggered something like a "healing" reaction? I'm not sure about this and maybe I'm totally off, but some people reported that their symptoms got worse after doing the treatment and then getting much better, so I thought it's worth considering that too.

And just one more thing. I believe that dealing with emotional aspects I had to deal with was very important in my healing process. Reading what is the "emotional" meaning of some symptoms has helped in this regard. You've probably already checked this, but just in case, have you searched for your symptoms in Louise Hay's book or maybe Traditional Chinese Medicine books that deal with the emotional connection to illnesses? I don't particularly resonate with Louise Hay's "affirmations" but I think that using the book as some sort of "index" to find some clues can be useful.

FWIW... and hang in there Ant22!

 

[Laura]

Keeping a food diary is a good way to figure out what is affecting you since some things don't produce a reaction for several days.

 

[Martina]

I wanted to ask Ant if she maybe lost too many kilos like I did? My BMI is currently 17.5 which is officially underweight.

 

[WIN 52]

I wanted to ask Ant if she maybe lost too many kilos like I did? My BMI is currently 17.5 which is officially underweight.

I went down till I was 160lbs at one point, which was too low for my 5'11" frame, over the 11 years. Now my weight has come back to where my bmi is square in the middle of normal.

Imagine that! There was a time when I thought the index was not possible for me to reach a normal score.

 

[Ant22]

A BIG thank you to those who responded with suggestions and their own experience. I'm sorry if the "damaged beyond repair" part sounded a bit too dramatic. I guess I need to work on expressing myself less emotionally, I wouldn't like to come across as someone looking for either pity or answers served on a plate. Many of you have improved your own health so I was just trying to pinch some tips and ideas

This is why I asked whether this thread refers to coming out of ketosis or keeping the carb intake low enough to stay in it. I was not in ketosis during those times I felt well, while ketosis hasn't worked too well for me so far, so I thought that maybe I misunderstood what this thread is about.

My health is improving but at a pace of a snail. Feeling very well for a couple of months made me realise that my previous improvements were tiny and insignificant, and I would really like to have that state back.

Ant22
Reaching a state of Ketosis is the first step of many on the path to try and get your body working better. For me the journey so far has spanned 11 years. There have been many improvements but the journey is still stretching on forward.

I have come to the conclusion that the choices made 11 years ago are still in the process of showing benefits today. There doesn't seem to be a magic bullet that will produce instant results.

Try to not be discouraged and keep walking.

Thanks for that WIN 52, 11 years is a very long time, I'm really glad to learn you're feeling better. I do realise that there is magic bullet other than continuing to experiment and push forward. The possibility of improvement if I keep trying is a better option than certainty of no improvement if I don't.

When it comes to helping your body to heal and recover your health, yeah, there is no magic bullet and it does take time! Pharmaceuticals may stop a symptom in its tracks and that may appear miraculous, but pretty much always, it is paid for by some other body system.

There are some natural tricks that do seem to be more supportive and encouraging of regaining health and may have good results in a short time, but that always depends on what the problems are and how long-standing.

Keeping a food diary is a good way to figure out what is affecting you since some things don't produce a reaction for several days.

Thank you Laura. The thing is, I don't really know what the problem is. Thanks to the forum I've experienced a whole load of incremental improvements but I just can't put my finger on the underlying cause.

I agree about pharmaceuticals. I certainly don't plan on resorting to any. Back in 2011/2012 my health went from bad to terrible as a result of a tiny problem being mismanaged by my doctor through overprescription of meds that never worked long term, so I'm not very trusting of anything the medical establishment would like to prescribe me. I ended up solving the problem myself back then through addressing the cause, not symptoms.

I started a food diary yesterday, let's see if I can work something out.

I doubt if you're damaged beyond repair, Ant. I thought I needed a certain amount of carbs but was surprised when I actually reduced them further, how my body responded. I would be 0 carbs right now but I have a super low carb yogurt at the end of the day for a treat. 4 grams of carbs according to the label. I definitely don't crave carbs. I eat whatever fat I can when available but don't worry to much about ratios. I just eat when I'm hungry until I'm full.

Are you still eating eggs? I cut out eggs a while back. When I was doing Keto diet back in the 'fat bomb' days, I didn't feel right after after so many weeks. I think it was all them eggs I was eating. Anyway I feel pretty good now. Not perfect but much better. Keep at it. Health is a tricky one for sure!

Hey genero, I'm glad your diet is working for you! I hope I'll find an approach that works for me too

I do eat eggs but not as much as I used to. The fat bomb custard made me realise I can only have small amounts of eggs and butter - which was really disappointing. I can literally eat butter with a spoon, and any other fat is a chore to eat because I struggle with the taste.

As for carbs, I do feel a bit better when I have them but then I crave them insanely. When I cut them out, cravings are less intense but I'm sluggish and a tad brain dead. Oh, what a puzzle

 

[Ant22]

I doubt you're damaged beyond repair too, Ant. Maybe you should tell us what exactly you're eating. It could be that you need to tweak things a bit. Some people actually do take up to 2 months to transition to ketosis, so it could be that you're just one of the unlucky ones. I know you said you're doing electrolytes, but are you getting enough salt? Sodium is really important while transitioning and it can help get rid of some of the symptoms of "keto flu".

Thanks for this dugdeep. If it can take up to two months, I still have around 2 weeks to go. After nearly 6 weeks I'm definitely not fat adapted: I have to take lots of digestive enzymes and apple cider vinegar with fat, otherwise that fat won't last in my tummy too long. And there are still days when even that doesn't help and it just ends up in the toilet.

As for sodium, I still do the iodine protocol so I drink Celtic salt in warm water every morning. I also drink it later in the day and all my food is cooked with Celtic salt. My supplements include potassium and magnesium as well.

As for my diet, this is what I can't understand: the ketogenic diet involves removing food items, not adding anything new. My day starts with a bulletproof tea with beef dripping, sweetened with glycine and d-ribose. If I have time for breakfast, it's usually have fried eggs with ham. If I don't have time, I'll have a large cup of bone broth with a spoon of lard.

My job gives me some flexibility so I have two lunch breaks at work: one at 11am and one at 3-4pm. When I cook bone broth I actually cook meat on bones. At around 1.5-2 hours mark I remove the meat and separate the bones. I cook the bones for 2-3 hours more. My lunch consists of that meat in tiny chunks with bone broth. It looks like a hearty soup. I have another cup of tea with beef dripping and around 10-20 gelatine capsules with lard. Then with my last meal I have oatmeal with some blueberries, or just blueberries. I also have some organic sausage a couple of times a week to have some variety. I read somewhere in the Ketogenic Diet thread that low or lacking DHA is often the reason the ketogenic diet doesn't work for some people so I also have a bit of mackerel (followed by iodine and selenium to neutralise potential mercury). I can't take fish oil pills becuase they make me feel really bad. Adding mackrell did help a bit actually so I will stick to it for now. Apparently lack of hydration can also make ketosis ineffective, and I'm much more thirsty than before, so I utilise advice from this thread to help with hydration.

If I eat out with friends, I order steak or ribs and mineral water or black tea.

I eat gluten and dairy free and my meat and fat are organic and grass-fed.

Non-keto diet in my case would simply involve less fat and some carbs throughout the day, like fruit and vegetables.

The interesting thing is that on Friday I had a very strong reaction to cookies I really like. They're made of mostly butter and rice flour. I wrote my previous post and in a moment of weakness I ate 7 cookies, 45 grams of carbs. I was sure it was going to end the ketosis but I was still excreting ketones before going to sleep. My last meal was around 4.30pm and I felt bloated the entire evening. Then I woke up at 2.30am with a huge nausea. I had to throw up and it made me feel better.

This reminded me of someone who mentioned in the Ketogenic Diet thread that they too struggled with grains after a period of the ketogenic diet. That event was a blessing in disguise, I've been trying to cut out grains but I struggled with not eating them. I can't even look at those cookies anymore.

 

[Jenn]

Just an FYI I've been doing the carnivore diet (not militantly) for around a month, initially I was trying to eat lots of fat similar to a keto diet and I just could not tolerate it, even with ox bile and ACV. Over the last week, I have cut all the extra fat such as; butter, drowning my meat in liquid fat from the pan and I'm basically just eating the meat (if it has fat on it fine, if not then I don't add it).
I have noticed a SIGNIFICANT improvement in digestive function. I still have coconut oil coffee in the morning after breakfast, but now I have just a teaspoon or less of oil rather than a tablespoon! Without being too graphic I was going to the toilet 3-4 times in the morning and it was very loose. Now it is once in the morning and a normal consistency.

I know we are all individual and have different tolerances, but if I ate your diet diary I would probably have diarrhea too!! Are you having the eggwhite? And also, what is in the oatmeal? Have you tried cutting down on the fat and upping the protein?

Something you may find helpful is functional testing to investigate what is going on in your gut/ metabolism etc. For me personally, it indicated some pretty significant things, so it may be worth exploring osit. Hang in there Ant

 

[Ant22]

I agree Ant22, I don't think you're damaged beyond repair, but I understand why you might think it's that way. For some time I had health issues even on a very strict keto diet, and I felt that way too. I'm still not completely sure about what made the trick for me and as Laura says, there's no magic bullet that fixes everything for everyone and it takes time to figure out the best approach to our particular conditions.

Yup, agreed Yas, that’s precisely what I’m trying to do I have to admit I felt like I hit a brick wall when my health crumbled again after a longer period of being positive. It's especially hard becuase my job does require alertness and attention to detail and face to face communication with people so a period of feeling bad is really draining.

Do you mind if I ask what your diet is like now? Are you still in ketosis?

If I may ask, what exactly are you eating nowadays? Have you tried an elimination diet or protocol like this one or maybe the carnivore diet? From what I've heard so far and my own personal experience, these diets that eliminate almost everything but meats and fats are helpful for people who still have some symptoms with a regular keto/paleo diet. Of course, they are hard to follow for a long period of time, but if you haven't tried it, maybe you can check it out and try it for a few months to see how it goes, then you can reintroduce some other foods one by one to see how you react to them. But, as dugdeep also said, it can take a while to adapt to the diet too, so maybe you won't feel very well for while before you're body adapts to it.

Based on other people's testimonials in the Ketogenic Diet thread I understand it may take a while to become fat adapted. I asked about the amount of carbs people who said they felt better when they eat them have, because the best I’ve ever felt was when I was not in ketosis. And it lasted for a couple of months, so I started to wonder whether my experience with keto is a rough adaptation or a pointless exercise.

As for your question about my diet, I described it in my reply to dugdeep above

I haven’t tried the elimination diet but I have been following the Carnivore Diet thread, as well as Mikhaila Peterson’s results. I’ll be visiting my family for 3 weeks for Christmas and I would prefer to avoid any carnivore flu while I'm there. It’s on my list of thing to try in 2018. Unless of course my keto adventure does improve.

If I remember correctly, you also have a tendency for iron overload, right? My guess is that you already checked this, but just in case, how are your iron/ferritin/etc. levels?

Yup, you have a great memory Yas! High iron in my case announces itself with tummy aches of a specific kind so I get forewarned. I take large amounts of IP6 on an empty stomach for a couple of days and it helps to stop it. That said, I will have my iron levels checked when I go home for Christmas.

Another thing that comes to mind is the herxeimer or detox reactions from some protocols. I think you've started drinking Quinton water recently, haven't you? Is it possible that this triggered something like a "healing" reaction? I'm not sure about this and maybe I'm totally off, but some people reported that their symptoms got worse after doing the treatment and then getting much better, so I thought it's worth considering that too.

I do suspect some herx response too, ketosis so far has brought stomach pain, fatigue and brain fogs, pretty much constant diarrhoea and one infection after another. It started with a cold within days of re-starting the diet, followed by an all body rash and then a throat infection straight afterwards.

As for the Quinton water, I am reminded about this part of the October session:

(Joe) When people drink Quinton, there have been different experiences - some not so pleasant. Is it kind of like iodine where it kind of energizes good and bad stuff like bacteria? Some people have digestive problems as a result, or they feel tired...

A: In some cases it is nothing more than a vivid imagination.

Q: (L) So when people are having like super-dramatic effects, they're basically...

(Joe) It's psychosomatic.

Well Yas, it could have referred to myself. This comment made me wonder whether my health issues are in fact psychosomatic. If they are, then I’m even more at my wits end becuase I’ve no idea how to address them. On the other hand, iodine and other advice here on the forum has helped big time so I think there must be a physical aspect to it. And many other people here have had similar health problems so maybe I shouldn't generalise based on a comment referring to a specific case.

And just one more thing. I believe that dealing with emotional aspects I had to deal with was very important in my healing process. Reading what is the "emotional" meaning of some symptoms has helped in this regard. You've probably already checked this, but just in case, have you searched for your symptoms in Louise Hay's book or maybe Traditional Chinese Medicine books that deal with the emotional connection to illnesses? I don't particularly resonate with Louise Hay's "affirmations" but I think that using the book as some sort of "index" to find some clues can be useful.

A book on that would help, if my body wants to tell me something it will have to learn English because I am rather useless at decoding potential hints it’s sending me

FWIW... and hang in there Ant22!

Thanks Yas!

 

[Beau]

As for my diet, this is what I can't understand: the ketogenic diet involves removing food items, not adding anything new. My day starts with a bulletproof tea with beef dripping, sweetened with glycine and d-ribose. If I have time for breakfast, it's usually have fried eggs with ham. If I don't have time, I'll have a large cup of bone broth with a spoon of lard.

My job gives me some flexibility so I have two lunch breaks at work: one at 11am and one at 3-4pm. When I cook bone broth I actually cook meat on bones. At around 1.5-2 hours mark I remove the meat and separate the bones. I cook the bones for 2-3 hours more. My lunch consists of that meat in tiny chunks with bone broth. It looks like a hearty soup. I have another cup of tea with beef dripping and around 10-20 gelatine capsules with lard. Then with my last meal I have oatmeal with some blueberries, or just blueberries. I also have some organic sausage a couple of times a week to have some variety.

This seems like too much fat, your body isn't able to handle all that fat. I'd say get rid of the additional fat in your tea and broth. I know you are trying to get, and stay, in ketosis but you should be responding to your body telling what it can handle and it doesn't seem like your body likes the extra fat. So no lard, beef dripping and gelatine. Go to a carnivore diet and see how you feel.

 

[theos]

This seems like too much fat, your body isn't able to handle all that fat. I'd say get rid of the additional fat in your tea and broth. I know you are trying to get, and stay, in ketosis but you should be responding to your body telling what it can handle and it doesn't seem like your body likes the extra fat. So no lard, beef dripping and gelatine. Go to a carnivore diet and see how you feel.

I would agree. Too much fat and it doesn't seem like you're getting much protein. And it's not necessary to go chasing a certain ketone level by over eating fat. Technically, you can be in ketosis without eating any fat at all as long as your carb intake is low enough. I wouldn't worry to much about ketosis if you feel crappy while in it.

 

[Oxajil]

This seems like too much fat, your body isn't able to handle all that fat. I'd say get rid of the additional fat in your tea and broth. I know you are trying to get, and stay, in ketosis but you should be responding to your body telling what it can handle and it doesn't seem like your body likes the extra fat. So no lard, beef dripping and gelatine. Go to a carnivore diet and see how you feel.

Yeah, I would say so too. I think bone broth is really good, but perhaps don't add any extra fat to it as Beau said, and add more water if you like. Add in some bones with marrow, and mix the marrow in. Also try using bones that don't have much fat on them. I also think your body may like some variety, maybe try some mashed potatoes with a steak. See what your body likes or doesn't like. Good idea of Laura to keep a diary, hopefully that will help. Unfortunately, I'm one of those cases that can't do long fasts, because I lose weight very easily if I would. Is that not the case with you? If it is, maybe have your last meal at a later time instead of the late afternoon. Don't lose hope!

 

[Foxx]

Have you tried seeing any alternative health practitioners Ant22? If not, I think it would be worth seeing one (or perhaps more than one, as it can sometimes take time to find one who's skilled). The body is a very complex machine and there are all kinds of strange things that can happen to it in my experience, so while experimenting can be very useful and insightful and even potentially solve many problems, sometimes it's also possible to get stuck and need an outside opinion or additional diagnostics.

In addition, I think it's always important to remember that there can multiple issues going on at once, and diagnosing multiple issues, especially without diagnostic tools, increases the complexity of doing so exponentially, in my opinion. Plus, there's always the factor of individual variation--at this point, I'm pretty thoroughly convinced that not only is there not a silver bullet for solving health problems, but there also isn't a single optimal dietary strategy for everyone. These days, I think some things are pretty universally bad (ie: glyphosate definitely, gluten probably, huge amounts of sugar pretty likely, etc), some things are pretty universally good (meat and the paleo diet overall, though even then with complications), and there's a lot of gray area in between where the optimal solution for the individual exists (which can potentially even change over time), as well as a number of factors that can cause things that should normally work well, even for the individual, to cause problems.

FWIW, my current preference is for the diagnostic methods of applied kinesiology, which do have their limitations, but are better than most I've found, and I wrote about my experience pretty extensively here:

SOTT Exclusive: What is Applied Kinesiology and what can it do for you? -- Sott.net

I've also been intrigued lately by Electrodermal screening devices (which I think of as basically being a rapid broad spectrum muscle testing analysis) and had a Zyto scan earlier this year that picked up a severe methylfolate deficiency where no one else had--the scan had a lot of useful information and gave a good overview, but there were some limitations there as well (I also haven't found any health practitioners or modalities that can see the whole picture, FWIW). The Qest4 is another such device that intrigues me, though I haven't had any personal experience with it yet.

In any event, regardless of the modality, if you're stuck on health problems and aren't getting anywhere, then finding an alternative health practitioner could help you locate and correct issues that you've been unable to fix yourself, thereby improving your health and your understanding of what works well for you.

Whatever direction you choose, I hope you can find some relief and improvements soon

 

[Ant22]

Just an FYI I've been doing the carnivore diet (not militantly) for around a month, initially I was trying to eat lots of fat similar to a keto diet and I just could not tolerate it, even with ox bile and ACV. Over the last week, I have cut all the extra fat such as; butter, drowning my meat in liquid fat from the pan and I'm basically just eating the meat (if it has fat on it fine, if not then I don't add it).
I have noticed a SIGNIFICANT improvement in digestive function. I still have coconut oil coffee in the morning after breakfast, but now I have just a teaspoon or less of oil rather than a tablespoon! Without being too graphic I was going to the toilet 3-4 times in the morning and it was very loose. Now it is once in the morning and a normal consistency.

I know we are all individual and have different tolerances, but if I ate your diet diary I would probably have diarrhea too!!

Whoa! You literally described my morning toilet adventures there Jenn! And since I started the ketogenic diet to address the most recent episode of decline in my health, it now also continues throughout the day.

I am SO glad you shared this!

There's one more thing that resonates with me: I recently attended a 3 days conference that lasted 10-12 hours each day. On day one I was diligently eating plenty of fat and I felt rubbish. On day 2 I forgot to pack my beef dripping and lard capsules so I went to a restaurant and had steak with broccoli. I had some blueberries as my last meal. And I felt well despite having an intellectually challenging day. I ate exactly the same things on day 3 I felt quite well again, I was able to focus and take lots of notes, despite the fact that it was a lot to take in and the topic was very unfamiliar to me.

Are you having the eggwhite? And also, what is in the oatmeal? Have you tried cutting down on the fat and upping the protein?

Yes, I always have the whole egg. I normally make oatmeal with almond milk and have fresh blueberries with it. And apart from the above mentioned steak at a restaurant I was actually trying to lower the protein and up the fat.

Something you may find helpful is functional testing to investigate what is going on in your gut/ metabolism etc. For me personally, it indicated some pretty significant things, so it may be worth exploring osit.

You're right about testing being a good idea, I've been putting it off for too long. I had a bit of a red flag today when I did the sodium ascorbate enema as per this discussion and I felt so bad that I had to lie down for good 40 minutes. I felt very weak, dizzy and nauseous and my heartbeat was very fast. Thing is, I always react like this to ennemas and it doesn't matter what's in it: coffee, probiotics or just water. But today it dawned on me that it may actually be stirring up some junk in my tummy.

Hang in there Ant

Thanks Jenn!

 

[Ant22]

This seems like too much fat, your body isn't able to handle all that fat. I'd say get rid of the additional fat in your tea and broth. I know you are trying to get, and stay, in ketosis but you should be responding to your body telling what it can handle and it doesn't seem like your body likes the extra fat. So no lard, beef dripping and gelatine. Go to a carnivore diet and see how you feel.

Thank you Beau! This will actually make eating so much less of a pain. I'll try the carnivore version and if I notice my body wants some veggies, I'll add them to my meat too. I have been craving broccoli and cauliflower recently, but I bullied my body into lard instead.

My idea that skinny people like me should have more fat came from this exchange:

Q: (dugdeep) I've got a whole paragraph here about diet, but I'll just break it down. [Regarding the paleo/keto diets], is it more about spiking insulin than it is about total carbs and protein?

A: Yes.

Q: (dugdeep) We were wondering about why these skinny people seem to lose what seems like too much weight. Is it necessary for them to keep a certain amount of insulin raised in order to not lose too much weight? Or can that be countered by eating more fat?

A: More fat. Insulin causes stress to the body across the board.

It turns out I might have overdone it.

I would agree. Too much fat and it doesn't seem like you're getting much protein. And it's not necessary to go chasing a certain ketone level by over eating fat. Technically, you can be in ketosis without eating any fat at all as long as your carb intake is low enough. I wouldn't worry to much about ketosis if you feel crappy while in it.

Thank you Odyssey, I think I really needed to hear this. The Ketogenic Diet thread is consists of such convincing data and research that I too wanted to get those benefits. And I was quite foolishly prepared to get them at whatever cost. It turned out to be quite counter productive.

Yeah, I would say so too. I think bone broth is really good, but perhaps don't add any extra fat to it as Beau said, and add more water if you like. Add in some bones with marrow, and mix the marrow in. Also try using bones that don't have much fat on them. I also think your body may like some variety, maybe try some mashed potatoes with a steak. See what your body likes or doesn't like. Good idea of Laura to keep a diary, hopefully that will help. Unfortunately, I'm one of those cases that can't do long fasts, because I lose weight very easily if I would. Is that not the case with you? If it is, maybe have your last meal at a later time instead of the late afternoon.

Thank you for this Oxajil! Yes, I'm another case of a skinny person who takes a deep sigh and 2 kilograms are gone. I started doing intermittent fasting as a result of this protocol and it really proved to be beneficial. I too was worried I was going to lose weight but somehow I didn't, despite the fact that I have experience of not eating enough for a couple of days due to stress, and then struggling to put the weight I lost back on. It's been nearly 6 months now and I'm not even hungry in the evenings anymore. Initially I was worried about losing more weight but interestingly enough, intermittent fasting has worked very well for me.

To my absolute delight, the recent fat overload enabled me to put on a little bit of weight. But I think I much prefer to be tiny than put up with constant diarrhoea and nausea.

Thank you for the practical tips about bones with marrow, I'm not the best cook so every little advice helps.

Don't lose hope!

Thank you Whenever my mood gets too low I remind myself that the alternative to pushing on is even worse than force feeding myself lard. Works like a charm every time

 

[dugdeep]

This seems like too much fat, your body isn't able to handle all that fat. I'd say get rid of the additional fat in your tea and broth. I know you are trying to get, and stay, in ketosis but you should be responding to your body telling what it can handle and it doesn't seem like your body likes the extra fat. So no lard, beef dripping and gelatine. Go to a carnivore diet and see how you feel.

I'd agree with this also. The good thing about the carnivore diet is there's no counting anything - ketones, calories, protein or fat. You just eat meat and salt (I would say go heavy on the salt, particularly during transition. Add a pinch to your water whenever you drink. It really helps with transition symptoms). No restricting protein to try to get ketone levels up, no peeing on sticks, no eating more fat than seems natural. I've been reading "Fat of the Land" by Vilhjalmur Stefansson who was an arctic explorer in the early 1900s. His recounting of the way people ate is pretty amazing - just fatty muscle meat, not even the organs (they gave them to the dogs, except for some situations where they'd feed the kidneys to children). They obviously weren't concerned with whether or not they were in ketosis. They just ate what they ate and felt good about it.

It makes a lot more sense to me than creating a non-intuitive eating regime by striking a precarious balance between macronutrients. I think a ketogenic diet is great as a therapeutic diet, particularly for certain conditions that benefit from raised ketone levels (epilepsy, dementia, cancer), but for others, the carnivore diet seems to make more sense. Carnivore dieters are no doubt in ketosis sometimes, maybe even most of the time, but it's not an issue.

But if you're not into the idea of doing just meat, maybe keep your diet just a meat-heavier version of what you're doing for the time being. Don't pack in tons of extra fat, but just eat as fatty as you feel comfortable with.