The Ice Age Cometh! Forget Global Warming!

[Windmill knight]

Whatever it is, it is BIG news! Like the examples of 'climate change' in other planets, it means that the changes are on the level of the solar system and not just for our little planet!

 

[Richs]

It could be related (or not): http://www.sott.net/articles/show/241428-Is-Venus-Rotation-Slowing-Down-
But since the rotations (revolution and spin) of Venus is both related to Earth's rotation (commensurability), I wonder what kind of a subtle effect it can have here through spin-orbit interaction..

Maybe earth has slowed down an equal amount relative to its size in comparison. (I hope you know what I mean here.)

Question is: would that be due to the approach of a dark body grounding the system? Anybody know enough about electricity or electrogravitics or whatever might be involved, to offer an opinion or explanation?

I was trained in the service as a communications equipment repairman so have a fair grounding of electronics and electrical matters in general. My opinion (hate to use that word):

The Earth is pretty much a big rotating magnet, just like the armature of an electric motor. If a current is applied to the Earth it is very possible that it will react just like any other motor and respond by changing it's speed depending on the amount of applied current and the amount of voltage which is driving it. This is really just 'basic electrics'. If what the C's say is true about the Twin Sun grounding the flow of electricity throughout the system I personally think this is possible. Doesn't seem like the establishment will have anything to say about it anytime soon though! I think McCanney was trying to do some independent measurements of possible Earth rotation slowdown some time back but I doubt he has accurate enough equipment to verify this.

 

[mkrnhr]

I've been thinking about the possibility lately but I have no clear idea of how it would work.
The vague impression I have is that a modification of the electrical/magnetic environment in the solar system will have an effect. One effect on Earth would be through the ionosphere but the signal is buried in the noise of Solar activity. An other effect would be (perhaps) on the earth interior, possibly on the outer core. If the magnetic moment of the Earth is disturbed, than it may also disturb the dynamic moment as well (The magnetic field is believed to be generated by the movement of ionized matter, but a movement of matter in any case - dynamo model), hence the spin rate and even the spin axis. I am still gathering information on this interaction and some data to plot to see if there are any trends that could be seen (an acceleration for example).

All we know is that the magnetic moment is changing dramatically (the magnetic storm documentary) and I don't know what effect it will have on the planet cinematically speaking.

The detection of Venus slowing spin rate may be a signal of something happenning because the solar system is self-organized and the spin and orbit momenta tend to "transfer" (tend to a certain regularity).
The problem is that we don't have precise data about the solar system cinematics for a long time and these changes may appear as secular effects on such a small time. For example, the change of the magnetic field can be traced for a long time but the movement of the Earth and other planet can be traced for only a few decades. The most precise ephemeris we have are merely extrapolations of the actual movements based on models of what we know about the actual movements, they cannot be used to imply what is happening on the long term. It's a little digression here.

We have the magnetic moment variation and if it has a substantial effect on the planetary movement, so maybe something is happening on this front. Venus may be experiencing something we are experiencing on a more subtle level. Only data would tell.

 

[anart]

We have the magnetic moment variation and if it has a substantial effect on the planetary movement, so maybe something is happening on this front. Venus may be experiencing something we are experiencing on a more subtle level. Only data would tell.

Could earth be experiencing it on the same level, only it's not being reported due to the fact that the people making the measurements aren't sharing that information?

 

[Windmill knight]

We have the magnetic moment variation and if it has a substantial effect on the planetary movement, so maybe something is happening on this front. Venus may be experiencing something we are experiencing on a more subtle level. Only data would tell.

Could earth be experiencing it on the same level, only it's not being reported due to the fact that the people making the measurements aren't sharing that information?

It has been reported that Earth's rotation has slowed down by some 7 seconds a year (need to look for the reference and double check but it was on sott), while Venus by 6.5 minutes a day - only that Venus' day lasts 243 Earth days. So depending on the exact figures and when they were taken, it could be that proportionally the effect has been the same, which is what I understood Laura to be saying.

 

[mkrnhr]

Could earth be experiencing it on the same level, only it's not being reported due to the fact that the people making the measurements aren't sharing that information?

It is not impossible, but as long as the effects cannot be observed by anyone, we cannot know for sure.

The main idea is that if there is a causal relation between the magnetic field variation and the orbital changes, even if these later are difficult to observe, it may be a non-negligible working hypothesis to "guess" what could be happening. It is known that sudden changes in the magnetic field are related to changes in global temperature, maybe subtle changes in orbital parameters are a missing link. But I'm still collecting the published literature on the subjects (and data).

It has been reported that Earth's rotation has slowed down by some 7 seconds a year (need to look for the reference and double check but it was on sott), while Venus by 6.5 minutes a day - only that Venus' day lasts 243 Earth days. So depending on the exact figures and when they were taken, it could be that proportionally the effect has been the same, which is what I understood Laura to be saying.

It would be nice to get a references on that.

Edit: The few papers I saw (didn't read yet LOL) on the subject discuss the rapid changes in the length of the say, the seasonal trends and those connected to the tides. Maybe we need the long term trends and I doubt we can have them with the actual data.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Could earth be experiencing it on the same level, only it's not being reported due to the fact that the people making the measurements aren't sharing that information?

It is not impossible, but as long as the effects cannot be observed by anyone, we cannot know for sure.

The main idea is that if there is a causal relation between the magnetic field variation and the orbital changes, even if these later are difficult to observe, it may be a non-negligible working hypothesis to "guess" what could be happening. It is known that sudden changes in the magnetic field are related to changes in global temperature, maybe subtle changes in orbital parameters are a missing link. But I'm still collecting the published literature on the subjects (and data).

These sites may help:

_http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc/index.php?index=excitation&lang=en (factors influencing length of day)
_http://sbc.oma.be/earthrot.html

from the second site:

On decadal time scales, the variations in the LOD have been shown
to be correlated with the secular variation of the magnetic field.
This suggests that the core plays an important role in these LOD changes.
These LOD variations are thus believed to be associated with the changes
in the core angular momentum (CAM). See II and III of this web page.
There, we show that different dynamics for the core with different CMB [core-mantle boundary]
velocity fields can lead to CAM explaining the observed scaled decadal
variation of the LOD.

[...]

VII. Present situation / Conclusion

robust correlation between decadal variations of the lod and modelled
core angular momentum;
various coupling mechanisms; a mixture of electromagnetic, topographic
and gravitational most likely;
no constraint on core dynamics from studies of lod variations but study of dynamics
provides the best chance of progress.

But if the electric universe theory is correct, core dynamo isn't the real (sole) reason for our magnetic field. So if outside forces control/affect our magnetic field (i.e. different bodies discharging the solar capacitor), it looks like it's possible that this will have an effect on the length of the day, perhaps via this electromagnetic torque/coupling on the core's angular momentum. (Also consider the possible effects of a changed hydrological cycle and dust loading of the atmosphere on angular momentum, thus changing affecting rotation.) Of course, WYSIATI (what you see is all there is), so as long as these other factors aren't looked at, scientists will try to make sense of it using only what's in front of them.

 

[mkrnhr]

But if the electric universe theory is correct, core dynamo isn't the real (sole) reason for our magnetic field. So if outside forces control/affect our magnetic field (i.e. different bodies discharging the solar capacitor), it looks like it's possible that this will have an effect on the length of the day, perhaps via this electromagnetic torque/coupling on the core's angular momentum. (Also consider the possible effects of a changed hydrological cycle and dust loading of the atmosphere on angular momentum, thus changing affecting rotation.) Of course, WYSIATI (what you see is all there is), so as long as these other factors aren't looked at, scientists will try to make sense of it using only what's in front of them.

That's the point, and thanks for the links ;)

 

[Ronan]

"Maybe earth has slowed down an equal amount relative to its size in comparison. (I hope you know what I mean here.) "

I did a calculation to find how much the arth would have to slow to equal the approximate energy loss of Venus.


Earth mass (M) 5.98 x10^24Kg
Earth radius (R) 6.378X10^6m
Earth moment of inertia( I) 2/3MR^2= 1.621731509X10^38Kgm^2
Earth rotation rate (w) 1 day(86400seconds) to turn 2pie radians =2pie/(24x3600)=7.272205217x10^-5 rads/s
Earth rotation energy 1/2x Iw^2= 4.288261006x10^29 Joules

Venus mass 4.87 x 10^24Kg
Venus radius 6.052 X 10^2m
Venus moment of inertia (Iv) 1.18914699 x 10^38Kgm^2
Venus rotation rate (wv1) 243.0185 earth days = 2.992448224 x 10^-7 rads/s
Venus day increased by 6.5 minutes= 6.5/(60x24) =4.513888889 x 10^-3 of a day
Venus new day length( wv2) 243.0230139 earth days = 2.992393642 x 10^-7 rads/s
loss of energy from Venus 1/2x Iv (wv1^2-wv2^2)
1/2x(1.18914699X10^38)x((2.992448224x10^-7)^2-(2.992393642x10^-7)^2)
= 1.942261367 x 10^20 Joules say 2x10^20 Joules
equivalent change in earth's rotation rate
sqrt ((= 4.288261006x10^29-1.942261367 x 10^20)x2/ 1.621731509X10^38)
=7.272205215x10^-5 rads/s earth new rotation rate
new day would be 2pie/7.272205215x10^-5= 86400.0000167 seconds long
So for the same energy loss Earth's day would lengthen by 0.0000167 seconds.

 

[Ronan]

Opps
I made an error the moment of inertia of a sphere is (solid one) is 2/5MR^2 not 2/3MR^2 so the answer would change by a factor of 3/5.

Basicially though the change in rotation rate of earth would be difficult to detect without precision instruments.

 

[Laura]

Basicially though the change in rotation rate of earth would be difficult to detect without precision instruments.

So that means that whatever is shockingly affecting Venus could be having the exact same effect on Earth, though we would hardly notice it though, certainly, the planet might notice it very well.

 

[Windmill knight]

Ok, the rate of slowing down is not as much as I thought it was, but I did find the reference for Earth's rotation:

https://www.sott.net/articles/show/107491-Wait-a-sec-for-leap-into-2006

 

[Konstantin]

Here is my opinion.
Take for example an electric motor. It have Stator and the rotor. Spining of the rotor is an efect of the magnetic fields between the stator and the current that is running thrue the rotor. The amount of curent in the rotor determines the magnetic field in the rotor and with that the rotation of the rotor. This rotation can be manipulated also by the strenght and direction of the Stator magnetic field.
So here is analogy . Let say that the earth is the rotor and it have a constant rotation on the relative constant magnetic field. In this case the stator magnetic field will be sun, and outes space magnetic field.So in this system the earth ( or any other planet) is rotating with relative constant speed.

Now get back to the motor. If we change the magnetic field othe stator we are changing the rotation. With the analogy - if we change the outer magnetic field that is influencing the earth we are changing the rotation.If that Sun twin is coming this way it means that the efects of his magnetic field will increase, and with that the influence of the planetary rotors will be much bigger.

 

[Laura]

Now get back to the motor. If we change the magnetic field othe stator we are changing the rotation. With the analogy - if we change the outer magnetic field that is influencing the earth we are changing the rotation.If that Sun twin is coming this way it means that the efects of his magnetic field will increase, and with that the influence of the planetary rotors will be much bigger.

But does that speed up or slow down the earth? What other effects might it have?

This is the kind of thing that I THNK could be set up in a laboratory.

 

[Konstantin]

Well it depends of the direction of the magnetic field i think. If the outer magnetic field is the same direction as the
stator fields it should increase total outer magnetic field and also increase rotation. If the outer magnetic field( i mean from the brown dwarf) is with oposite direction then it should decrease total outer magnetic field and also slow the
rotation.


I don t know. this is only my opinion. Maybe i`m wrong. I have study electrotechnics on high school and on the coledge.

Maybe i`m missing something. Vibrations ( frequency ) is also important factor, but i dont know how can that influence on the final results. I think that something can be made in labaratory. It is good idea. Its also good if someone who is good at math and in computers can make some mathematical model and make some simulation.