The Mecca Mystery: Probing the Black Hole at the Heart of Muslim History by Peter Townsend

Meager1

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Muslims also believe that the Kaaba stone was once part of the stones of heaven. There are various versions of its story of origin, all similar to one the another. When Adam was banished from the Garden of Eden, he was filled with sin. The Black Stone was given to him to erase this sin and allow him entrance back into heaven. Some instead believe the ancient stone was brought from a nearby mountain by the archangel Gabriel.

I was reading about that and some of the earlier religion attached to it.
Seems the whole thing was first related to the "gods" being the sun, and the planets.
For instance it might still explain the bowing at sunrise, mid day, and sunset.
Maybe it was pressure from the jews and Christians that forced the change from the earlier religion to the "modern" one.
The whole Adam and Eve, Solomon being inserted in here just seems a little sketchy.
Below are a few excerpts from the book, I put the link below if anyone wants to have a look.
One thing I found particularly interesting was the size of Adam and Eve`s purported tombs, as they are claimed
to have been taller then the tallest palm trees. And then this one, Sacrifices to the sun, &c.,we learn, took place in Yemen
even as late as the fourth century. Herodotus (iii. 8) writes of the Arabs that " they acknowledge no other gods but Bacchus
and Urania . . . they call Bacchus Orotal, and Urania Alilat." ^ He also states that in giving pledges the hands of the contracting
persons were cut, and while invoking their deities the blood was smeared on seven stones placed between them.


[ Five gods of the antediluvian world are mentioned in the Koran (sura Ixxi. 22, 23), and these having been
recovered after the Deluge (?) were worshipped by certain tribes under various forms. Each tribe had
its special divinity, and each family its idol penates, which were saluted on leaving and returning home.
The worship of the sun at Saba is mentioned by Mahomet (Koran, xxvii. 24) : " Of angels or intelligences
which they worshipped, the Koran makes mention of three only, Allat, Alozza, and Manah, who are called
the daughters of God." ^

The heavenly bodies especially worshipped were Canopus (Sohail), Sirius (Alshira),^ Aldebaran in
Taurus, with the planets Mercury (Otarod), Venus (Al Zohirah), Jupiter (Al Moshtari) ; and Sale states
that the temple at Mecca was said to have been consecrated to Saturn (Zohal).
About the Kaaba was the famous idol Hobal, the tutelary deity of Mecca, supposed to have the power of granting rain,
surrounded by 360 others of smaller size, representing the saints and divinities, which could be invoked
on each day of the year."^..

On their expulsion from Paradise, so the story goes, Adam fell in Serendib, or Ceylon, where the footprint on the top of
Adam's Peak (attributed by his priests to Buddha) was, say the Mahometans, made by our first parent. Eve fell in Arabia,
near Jiddah, and after two hundred years' separation they were permitted to come together on Mount Arafat, near Mecca, where
they lived many years. The tomb of Eve is shown near Jiddah, outside the walls. It is sixty cubits long and twelve wide, for
Adam and Eve in stature equalled the tallest palm-tree !
Adam's place of interment is variously stated to be near Mecca and in Ceylon..

Black Stone at Mecca. This famous stone, which is a fragment of volcanic basalt, sprinkled with coloured crystals, is
semicircular, and measures about six inches in height and eight inches in breadth. It is placed in the wall of the Kaaba, at the
east outer corner, and about four feet from the ground. It has a border of silver round it. Its colour is reddish-black, and its
surface is undulating and polished..

The shooting stars are, by the Moslems, believed to be heaven's artillery, used for the dispersion of the genii and devils, who listen to catch by stealth scraps of the celestial secrets, for the purpose of giving them, like the Promethean fire, to mortals.^

The Genii are stated to have been forced to work in Solomon's presence, " and they made him whatever he pleased "—" of palaces, and statues, and large dishes like fish-ponds " : * and, finally, his army is said to have consisted of " genii, and men and birds." ^..

The early religion of the Arabs, then, was a kind of Sabeanism, and "chiefly consisted in worshipping the fixed stars and planets and the angels and their images, which they honoured as inferior deities, and whose intercession they begged as their mediators with God." ^ This worship of the heavenly bodies is alluded to in the book of Job (xxxviii. 31 33), and the names of certain constellations which were adored are given. Sacrifices to the sun, &c.,we learn, took place in Yemen even as late as the fourth century. Herodotus (iii. 8) writes of the Arabs that " they acknowledge no other gods but Bacchus and Urania . . . they call Bacchus Orotal,and Urania Alilat." ^ He also states that in giving pledges the hands of the contracting persons were cut, and while invoking their deities the blood was smeared on seven stones placed between them.

The invocation of Urania, identical, doubtless, with..

 

Tuatha de Danaan

Jedi Master
Nearly finished DID MUHAMMAD EXIST. The information given in this and THE MECCA MYSTERY. is really eye opening and forgetting the authors bias-if that is what it is-gives a very confused picture of those times. Its like watching a progression Judaism, Christianity and Moslem. If what we have learned about earth catastrophes, 7ooyrs.
missing time or meddling with time and back-dating of the above religions, could we be looking of all of them born of one idea and produced by the same time.to be dispersed to different corners of the then known world . Sorry if this is noise.
 

Luks

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Doesn't answer the question.
Okay...

Israel, as a country, want to be perceiving as a friend to USA in the international arena, by "friending" its president and through him with USA citizens, however working through Hollywood create the tensions within USA.

If they plan some color revolution in the USA. Israel may want to posing as the good uncle beyond sea to help poor americans, and be see like that by Americans and the entire world. Don't want to hurt anybody, surely not their president. Of course the whole of it has to serve Israel interest in the USA. Even if not military, then through money and the influences.

Also look that Hollywood aren't perceive as "Jewish" in the America by most of the Americans (as far as I know; I don't know I am not living there and do not examine this). The conflict between Trump and Hollywood is inner matter of Americans. The same relationship between USA and Israel have to be seen as good, but on the other hand they want to mess as much as possible within the USA. And they want to calibrate it to set desired situation and do not prevail over one of the side.
 

Yozilla

The Living Force
It seems that oil is to be ditched as main energy source (even Germans started to produce electric green cars - there is a one producer in Crapatia too/for gods sake:jawdrop:, there is this dude Musk et al, green tis grin tat :pinocchio:) quite soon. If that so what is due for main Gulf producers like Saudi Arabia :huh:. And than what about Main ME security fuse State of Israel?

I guess that Hollywood is still stuck in 20th century (fox) hehe
 

Ursus Minor

Jedi Master
And one question that keeps bugging me is this: Jews are supposed to control the US media, right? So why is the US media so anti-Trump if Trump is such a good "friend of Israel"? Jews are supposed to control Hollywood; why is Hollywood so anti-Trump? None of it makes any sense at all.
There are obviously different factions at work. I remember Obama snubbing Netanyahu in public a couple of times.
It seems as if the Obama/Clinton crowd have much more intense relations with the Deep State than with Israel.
Las Vegas billionaire Sheldon Adelson, who is one of the major sponsors of Likudniks and Netanyahu, is said to have given a huge sum to the Trump presidential campaign.
Adelson himself is known to be at odds with George Soros, another jewish billionaire and "philanthropist".

Apart from being Israel firsters, the media can also be Deep State firsters once their own survival is at stake, which it is since they are so closely connected to that ominous and elusive organization.

Anyway, is Trump such a "good friend of Israel"? I think he moved the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem so quickly as part of a deal to keep the Likudniks off his back (for a while).

We simply don't know what is really going on under the surface of the politcal game board...
 

Joe

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And one question that keeps bugging me is this: Jews are supposed to control the US media, right? So why is the US media so anti-Trump if Trump is such a good "friend of Israel"? Jews are supposed to control Hollywood; why is Hollywood so anti-Trump? None of it makes any sense at all.
I don't think Trump is such a good friend of Israel, and I don't think the Israelis see him that way. Certainly his attempts to pull out of the Middle East do not please the Israelis. When it comes down to it, none of these factions trust each other. At the same time, both the US establishment and the Israeli lobby have a common understanding about the need to contain Trump. And what better way to play him than to to have the media pile pressure on him and force him to go to the Israeli lobby to try and 'help him out'. 'Sure, we'll help you Donald, just move that embassy and we'll see what we can do'. Then they do nothing because they really don't trust him, and he has to be kept on a tight leash anyway.

Trump just isn't ideologically possessed in the way that the 'masters of the universe' are. For them, domination and control is an end in itself. For Trump, unless there's money and 'stuff' involved, he's not so much into domination and control, it simply costs too much.
 

herondancer

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Trump just isn't ideologically possessed in the way that the 'masters of the universe' are. For them, domination and control is an end in itself. For Trump, unless there's money and 'stuff' involved, he's not so much into domination and control, it simply costs too much.
In a way, you could call Trump a high-end obvatyl. His approach is very pragmatic, "What are we getting out of it, now?' It drives the ideologues in the administration barmy to be dealing with a market-oriented, bottom-line guy. Even the C's said he looks at all the stupid things the US is doing around the world as a waste of money and resources more than anything else. It's not the most evolved way to deal with the world, but it's not a bad one either.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Nearly finished DID MUHAMMAD EXIST. The information given in this and THE MECCA MYSTERY. is really eye opening and forgetting the authors bias-if that is what it is-gives a very confused picture of those times. Its like watching a progression Judaism, Christianity and Moslem. If what we have learned about earth catastrophes, 7ooyrs.
missing time or meddling with time and back-dating of the above religions, could we be looking of all of them born of one idea and produced by the same time.to be dispersed to different corners of the then known world . Sorry if this is noise.
I haven't read the book yet but I am paying attention to all the reviews and comments.

Your question is one that I have been thinking about in relation to all three of these religions and their timeframe. Who messed with maybe all of them within a short period of history. I don't know if Laura is maybe now closer to putting the pieces together but this following session has made me wonder who the "Greek enforcers" were and how many religions have been created/tampered with due to their interference.

Session 7 November 1994:
Q: (L) You have often stated that the Bible is corrupted, I would like to know who, exactly, corrupted the Bible and when and how they did this?

A: Illuminati brotherhood for a thousand earth years.

Q: (L) Does this mean that up until a thousand years ago the Bible was fairly accurate?

A: No.

Q: (L) Is there any possibility that the Catholic church had anything to do with this corrupting influence?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Does the Catholic church have in its possession actual original texts of the Bible that have not been corrupted?

A: No.

Q: (L) Were there ever such texts in existence?

A: No.

Q: (L) Who wrote the book of Matthew?

A: Greek enforcers.

Q: (L) What are Greek enforcers?

A: Like your FBI.

Q: (L) Who wrote the book of Mark?

A: Same.

Q: (L) Luke and John?

A: Same?

Q: (L) Acts?

A: Same?

Q: (L) Are any books of the New Testament written by who they claim to be written by?

A: No. Remember this is 70% propaganda.

Q: (L) Is 30% then the truth or the actual teachings?

A: Close. Enough you must decipher from instinct through meditation.
 

Hindsight Man

Jedi Master
Nope, but it helped it to spread and helped to bring adherents of those doctrines to European countries. Again, sounds like a set up.
Are you gonna blame the west for the massive rates of inbreeding in predominantly muslim countries too? The west has done it's fair share of terrorism,but looking beyond the last century shows that ME clearly didn't need the help.
 

Laura

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The following is from the Doctrina Jacobi said to have been written in Greek, in Palestine between 634 and 640, at the time of the Arab conquests there.

When the candidatus {member of the Byzantine imperial guard} was killed by the Saracens {Sarakenoi}, I was at Caesarea and I set off by boat to Sykamina. People were saying "the candidatus has been killed," and we Jews were overjoyed. And they were saying that the prophet had appeared, coming with the Saracens, and that he was proclaiming the advent of the anointed one, the Christ who was to come. I, having arrived at Sykamina, stopped by a certain old man well-versed in scriptures, and I said to him: "What can you tell me about the prophet who has appeared with the Saracens?" He replied, groaning deeply: "He is false, for the prophets do not come armed with a sword. Truly they are works of anarchy being committed today and I fear that the first Christ to come, whom the Christians worship, was the one sent by God and we instead are preparing to receive the Antichirst. Indeed, Isaiah said that the Jews would retain a perverted and hardened heart until all the earth should be devastated. But you go, master Abraham, and find out about the prophet who has appeared." So I, Abraham, inquired and heard from those who had met him, that there was no truth to be found in the so-called prophet, only the shedding of men's blood. He says also that he has the keys of paradise, which is incredible." {Not credible.)
Now, according to the accepted history, Muhammad died in 632.
Notice that this Saracen prophet is "proclaiming the advent of the anointed one, the Christ who was to come".

The Dead Sea Scrolls peeps, the "Jerusalem Christians" who were against Paul, expected Christ to come, etc actually fits the bill of this description. The Qumran sect people were thinking and acting based on their texts: it was all (more or less) about evicting and/or destroying the hated Romans.

From my text, Josephus, Pilate and Paul:

If you read some of the Dead Sea Scrolls, you can feel their brotherhood’s incandescent hatred for the Romans and all they represented. ... For example, here are some excerpts from the “War of Sons of Light against the Sons of Darkness” scroll:

On the day when the Kittim [i.e. Romans] fall there shall be a battle and a tremendous slaughter before the God of Israel, for He has appointed a day for Himself from of old for a war of annihilation against the Sons of Darkness. ... On the trumpets of the slain they shall inscribe, “The Hand of God’s Might in Battle to Strike All Treacherous Men Dead.” On the trumpets of ambush they shall inscribe, “The Mysteries of God to Destroy Wickedness.” On the trumpets of pursuit they shall inscribe, “God’s Smiting of All the Sons of Darkness.” (His anger will not return until they are completely destroyed.) ...

On the blade of the javelins they shall inscribe, “The Lightning Flash of a Spear for the Power of God.” Upon the weapons of the second group they shall inscribe, “Bloody Missiles to Bring down Those Slain by God’s Anger.” Upon the javelins of the third group they shall inscribe, “A Sword Flash Devouring the Wicked Who Are Slain by God’s Judgment.” ... they shall defile their hands with the corpses of the Kittim in striking them down ¼ All of these [shock troops] will take up the pursuit [of the fleeing enemy] in order to exterminate the enemy in the battle of God in an eternal annihilation. ... When the slain are falling, the priests shall keep sounding the trumpets from a distance, but they shall not come among the corpses so as to pollute themselves with their unclean blood, for they are holy men, and shall not defile the oil of their anointing as priests with the blood of a worthless nation.
Further, one finds that the sect referred to its members as “saints” and “the elect” and its totality as the true “Church of God” and “The Way”, all terms that show up in early so-called Christian literature, even Paul’s writings. That leads to the proposition that the so-called early Jerusalem church was nothing more than the support/recruiting arm of an Essene/Zadokite/Zealot/Sicarii group fomenting rebellion against Rome. That leads to the idea that what they were doing in their so-called evangelizing was gathering recruits, supporters, and funds to conduct their eventual war of liberation, and using messianic hopes to promote it and maintain the spirits and loyalty of the revolutionaries. Based on the historical evidence, that is the sum and substance of the early so-called Jerusalem church. It was certainly messianic and cultic, but not at all in the way the later Christian mythmakers and apologists imagined. ...

Twenty years later {70 AD}, the rebel messianists got what they wanted: war with Rome. But their god and their martial messiahs did not descend from the heavens to make them victorious. Instead, the Romans utterly destroyed them. After the destruction, Gamaliel II brought together all the brotherhoods in a federation, redefining the Jewish nation on the foundations of rabbinic Judaism and marginalizing the more radical factions.

But some messianists resisted the move, were in turn rejected as “minim”, and lived to fight another battle under the “messiah” Simon bar Kokhba’s failed rebellion. Some time after their final destruction in 135 AD, some of the failed messianists went their own way, going down in Christian history as the “Jewish-Christian” Nazoreans.
As Spencer suggests, it appears that Islam actually began as a "Christian sect" in the terms of the Dead Sea Scrolls Christians, i.e. Jewish Messianists of a particularly martial character. He adduces quite a bit of evidence to that idea though he avoids stressing the Jewish nature of the thing. That probably is due to his pro-Zionist bias.

 

whitecoast

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When you put it that way, Muhammad is in competition with Moses, one of the original war criminals, so to say. Of course, biblical studies show that Moses as depicted in the OT didn't exist. However, one of the main models of the character was Xerxes, King of Persia, and there was another war criminal at the core.
There's certainly a dearth of war criminals in the Old Testament (King David comes to my mind). So I suppose the modern Israelis have a lot to take inspiration from when they invade and harass their neighbors constantly. But as minorities in exile they tend to be very vocal in their advocacy of open borders, progressive politics, and so on. They act very differently depending on which foot the shoe is on. "Islamophobia" and "Antisemitism" are both well-worn english words. Why isn't there a word for anti-Christian sentiment?

But then, what about Julius Caesar, the main model for Paul's Jesus Christ? Surely another war criminal by today's standards?
I do admit that some of the things written about Caesar do give me pause, since he commited acts of war that were even against Roman Law (namely offenisve wars, and also executing a german tribe after declaring themselves allies of Rome). Dan Carlin did a good podcast on the Gallic Wars. But I also think Caesar differs from Moses, David, Muhammad, and Jesus in that most accounts we have of him either come from (edited) accounts by himself, or his enemies. The other three have stories told about them by their fanbases while contemporarneous detractors are absent.

To most Christians Jesus is the hippy in the desert who advises to turn the other cheek, and who claims that those who take the sword will perish by it. David and Muhammad were generals and kings, similar to Caesar. But Jesus was both the ruler of the universe and the criminal executed outside the city walls. Christianity has its history of violence too, but I think had Caesar been the literal model (instead of the occluded root/inspiration) it could have been worse. Not that Christianity didn't already have enough to choose from in the Old Testament.

Another thing that distinguishes Christianity at least in principle from Judaism and Islam is the line "leave unto Caesar what is Caesar's." Nassim Taleb writes about this better than I could here.

People rarely mean the same thing when they say “religion”, nor do they realize that they don’t mean the same thing. For early Jews and Muslims, religion was law. Din means law in Hebrew and religion in Arabic. For early Jews, religion was also tribal; for early Muslims, it was universal. For the Romans, religion was social events, rituals, and festivals –the word religio was a counter to superstitio, and while present in the Roman zeitgeist had no equivalent concept in the Greek-Byzantine East. Law was procedurally and mechanically its own thing, and early Christianity, thanks to Saint Augustine, stayed relatively away from the law, and, later, remembering its foundations, had an uneasy relation with it. For instance, even during the Inquisition, a lay court handled the sentencing. Theodosius’ code was “Christianized” with a short introduction, a blessing of sorts — the rest remained identical to the pagan Roman legal reasoning as expounded in Constantinople and (mostly) Berytus.

The difference is marked in that Christian Aramaic uses a different word: din for religion and nomous (from the Greek) for law. Jesus, with his imperative “give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar”, separated the holy and the profane: Christianity was for another domain, “the kingdom to come”, only merged with this one in the eschaton. Neither Islam nor Judaism have a marked separation between holy and profane. And of course Christianity moved away from the solely-spiritual domain to embrace the ceremonial and ritualistic, integrating much of the pagan rites of the Levant and Asia Minor.

For Jews today, religion became ethnocultural, without the law — and for many, a nation. Same for Syriacs, Chaldeans, Armenians, Copts, and Maronites. For Orthodox and Catholic Christians religion is aesthetics, pomp and rituals, plus or minus some beliefs, often decorative. For most Protestants, religion is belief with neither aesthetics, pomp nor law. Further East, for Buddhists, Shintoists and Hindus, religion is practical and spiritual philosophy, with a code of ethics (and for some, cosmogony). So when Hindu talk about the Hindu “religion” they don’t mean the same thing to a Pakistani as it would to a Hindu, and certainly something different for a Persian.

When the nation-state idea came about, things got much, much more complicated. When an Arab now says “Jew” he largely means something about a creed; to Arabs, a converted Jew is no longer a Jew. But for a Jew, a Jew is someone whose mother is a Jew. (This has not always been the case: Jews were quite proselytic during the early Roman empire). But Judaism, thanks to modernism, somewhat merged into nation-state, and now can also mean a nation.

In Serbia-Croatia and Lebanon, religion means something at times of peace, and something quite different at times of war.

When someone discusses the interests of the “Christian minority” in the Levant, it doesn’t mean (as Arabs tend to think) promoting a Christian theocracy (as I said earlier, the church has always been uneasy in its relationship with the profane; full theocracies were very few in Christian history, just Byzantium, a short attempt by Calvin and few other episodes). He just means “secular” or wants a marked separation of church and state. Same for the gnostics (Druids, Druze, Mandeans, Alawis).
 

Joe

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inbreeding in predominantly muslim countries
By "inbreeding" you mean cousin marriage, mostly in the ME. Cousin marriage is legal in most of Europe and 50% of US states, plus Russia, and was quite common in Europe until fairly recently. So you'll have to find something else to beat the Muzzies with.

looking beyond the last century shows that ME clearly didn't need the help.
I'll have to disagree that looking beyond the last century shows what you seem to be implying here, and I won't go into any detail in my response because your comment is pretty vague.
 
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