"The Prayer of the Soul" Translations

anart

A Disturbance in the Force
Ailén said:
Awesome! And the whole EE program is about to be released with subtitles in 19 languages:

English
Bulgarian
Chinese
Croatian
Danish
Dutch
Finnish
French
German
Greek
Polish
Portuguese
Romanian
Russian
Serbian
Spanish
Telugu
Turkish
Vietnamese

:thup: :clap:

We will announce it as soon as it is available on our website. The SOTT translators are working on the last details.

THAT is impressive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

istina

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Thank you all!!! :clap: :flowers:
anart said:
Ailén said:
Awesome! And the whole EE program is about to be released with subtitles in 19 languages:

English
Bulgarian
Chinese
Croatian
Danish
Dutch
Finnish
French
German
Greek
Polish
Portuguese
Romanian
Russian
Serbian
Spanish
Telugu
Turkish
Vietnamese

:thup: :clap:

We will announce it as soon as it is available on our website. The SOTT translators are working on the last details.

THAT is impressive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Saša

Dagobah Resident
Avala said:
And here is Serbian complete translation (which is mine from page one of this thread).

Which Jubazo kindly translated in Croatian (if that can be done because that’s the same language, but there it is . . . ) so some sentences were puzzling msasa cause not having biblical tone and slightly different grammar in them (something like difference in English and "American")

Yeah, you're probably right about my reaction, i.e. overaction. My perfectionist program was probably turned on and I insisted on something that's not so important in context of overall meaning and purpose of translating this magnificent piece of Art.

On the other hand, IMO, you are wrong about Cro and Ser being the same language.
I'm not a linguist, so this is not a professional point of view, but I've studied Cro grammar and syntax enough, and through Bosnian father and wife know something about Ser, to say that Ser and Cro are very similar languages but surely not one and the same.
Just my 2 cents.


Ailén said:
Jerry said:
There are now translations for the Prayer of the Soul in these 27 languages:

Awesome! And the whole EE program is about to be released with subtitles in 19 languages:

Wonderful work translation team! :clap: :thup:
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
msasa said:
On the other hand, IMO, you are wrong about Cro and Ser being the same language.
I'm not a linguist, so this is not a professional point of view, but I've studied Cro grammar and syntax enough, and through Bosnian father and wife know something about Ser, to say that Ser and Cro are very similar languages but surely not one and the same.
Just my 2 cents.
Well IMHO this debate is probably not constructive and not appropriate for this forum as even the linguistic experts cannot agree on what defines a language.
Most experts do agree that Serbian and Croatian are two dialects of the same language, and regard them as daughter languages. Due to complex historical and political factors this debate will probably go on for a long time and even get more complicated with the invention of new daughter languages such as Bosnian or Montenegrin. Same as German the language of South Slavs (or Yugoslav language) is pluricentric meaning that it has several standard versions, both in spoken and written form. This situation usually arises when language and the national identity of its native speakers do not, or did not, coincide.
 

Chu

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Stormy Knight said:
msasa said:
On the other hand, IMO, you are wrong about Cro and Ser being the same language.
I'm not a linguist, so this is not a professional point of view, but I've studied Cro grammar and syntax enough, and through Bosnian father and wife know something about Ser, to say that Ser and Cro are very similar languages but surely not one and the same.
Just my 2 cents.
Well IMHO this debate is probably not constructive and not appropriate for this forum as even the linguistic experts cannot agree on what defines a language.
Most experts do agree that Serbian and Croatian are two dialects of the same language, and regard them as daughter languages. Due to complex historical and political factors this debate will probably go on for a long time and even get more complicated with the invention of new daughter languages such as Bosnian or Montenegrin. Same as German the language of South Slavs (or Yugoslav language) is pluricentric meaning that it has several standard versions, both in spoken and written form. This situation usually arises when language and the national identity of its native speakers do not, or did not, coincide.

This is certainly an interesting sociolinguistic discussion, that, as a matter of fact, COULD be discussed within the translators' team if and when needed, given that we currently have translators for both "languages/dialects".

Personally, I think that whether they are dialects of the same language or not, is not an issue. Our goal is to reach more people and make the material understood by as many interested people as possible. Our Serbo-Croatian team volunteered to do even more work that was asked by providing our audience with two different translations, and that says a lot about their caring for the readers/viewers and their commitment to our goal. :thup:
 

Chu

Administrator
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FOTCM Member
Oh, forgot to say that I think you are nitpicking a bit here, Stormy Knight. I can't speak for msasa, but from his post I understood he was also referring to two dialects, even if he didn't use that word. Not everybody (even experts cannot agree, as you said) knows the difference between the definition of a language, a dialect, creole, pidgin, etc.

msasa wrote:

I've studied Cro grammar and syntax enough, and through Bosnian father and wife know something about Ser, to say that Ser and Cro are very similar languages but surely not one and the same.

That is close to the definition of a dialect, which is what you are talking about. Dialects can have a slightly different syntax and grammar apart from their lexicon. I believe that is what msasa was trying to explain, even if it wasn't that clear in his post.

My 2 cents.
 

Avala

Dagobah Resident
msasa said:
. . . and through Bosnian father and wife know something about Ser, to say that Ser and Cro are very similar languages but surely not one and the same . . .

And through MY Bosnian father I have studied Croatian (which indicates so called "differences", which we are talking about :)).

And if I can understand you when I am hearing in Serbian and you are speaking in Croatian that is OK for me. Two or one, whatever, just leave out biblical gloss please if it is possible. I think that it could push people off the prayer.
 

Saša

Dagobah Resident
Ailén said:
Oh, forgot to say that I think you are nitpicking a bit here, Stormy Knight. I can't speak for msasa, but from his post I understood he was also referring to two dialects, even if he didn't use that word. Not everybody (even experts cannot agree, as you said) knows the difference between the definition of a language, a dialect, creole, pidgin, etc.

msasa wrote:

I've studied Cro grammar and syntax enough, and through Bosnian father and wife know something about Ser, to say that Ser and Cro are very similar languages but surely not one and the same.

That is close to the definition of a dialect, which is what you are talking about. Dialects can have a slightly different syntax and grammar apart from their lexicon. I believe that is what msasa was trying to explain, even if it wasn't that clear in his post.

My 2 cents.

Thanks Ailen.
I didn't know that different dialects of the same languages can have different syntax and grammar, so I used the term "similar but different languages". From this point of view, yes, Cro and Ser can be regarded as two dialects.


Avala said:
msasa said:
. . . and through Bosnian father and wife know something about Ser, to say that Ser and Cro are very similar languages but surely not one and the same . . .

And through MY Bosnian father I have studied Croatian (which indicates so called "differences", which we are talking about :)).

And if I can understand you when I am hearing in Serbian and you are speaking in Croatian that is OK for me. Two or one, whatever, just leave out biblical gloss please if it is possible. I think that it could push people off the prayer.

It seems that Bosnia is connecting our peoples more than it's been dividing them ;D

I agree, the main thing is that we understand each other when speaking our mother tongues.

And I basically agree about the biblical gloss also. But we have to be careful here.
We've all witnessed (on this forum) how word "religion" (regarding FOTCM formation) created a lot of emotional responses because its meaning has been ponerized (if I understand what ponerization means, still have to read Lobaczewski's book).
So, IMO, to not use some word in translation, which would better convey the original meaning, because this word has been used many times by the Church (or who/what-ever), could poor the translation and deprive depth of the original work from the reader, not to mention the limitation we impose on ourselves when doing this.
Maybe it's better not to assume the reaction of others, but just be fair and honest in our work and do our best when translating things.
As Laura quoted somebody in Amazing Grace, a good translator should allow original author to speak through him, should be a vessel through which author can convey his ideas to people who otherwise would not have had this opportunity.
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Ailén said:
Oh, forgot to say that I think you are nitpicking a bit here, Stormy Knight. I can't speak for msasa, but from his post I understood he was also referring to two dialects, even if he didn't use that word. Not everybody (even experts cannot agree, as you said) knows the difference between the definition of a language, a dialect, creole, pidgin, etc.

Well sorry Ailen but - I don't think so.
He presented the statement that these two are not the same language and I think its quite clear this is what he meant.
The experts can indeed agree on the difference between the languages and dialects, but they cannot agree on what defines the language - geopolitical factors, alphabet or what not - this is what I said and what I meant.

I was making the same point you are trying to make (OSIT) i.e - that this discussion is irrelevant and probably not very constructive or conclusive.
Being the person who actually started the translation of Cassiopean material into Yugoslav language I have experienced the frustration which this artificial separation brings. Before (during the times of good ol Yugoslavia ) - it was all very simple - the language was called Serbo-croatian and you could write in any dialect you wanted, while the bosnians could mix both dialects and nobody would have problems with it.
These days you call it one way or another- certain party might have a problem with it just because of the name -although they all perfectly well understand what it means.
That is all I meant - no nitpicking. Sorry you understood it this way.
I haven't been active in translator's group for awhile so i am not up to date with recent developments but if the same texts are being translated into Serbian and Croatian or even Bosnian that is a terrible waste of time and resources. FWIW
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Are you so busy that you can no longer help with translating, SK?
 

Chu

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
SK, yesterday I sent you an e-mail on behalf of the moderators concerning precisely this topic and your group participation. If you haven't received it yet, please let me know. Thanks.
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Yes, I am so busy that I cannot do it properly. I tried for a while but it was quite a struggle to reach promised dead lines so I deiced to withdraw, thinking and hoping that in the future I might intensify my efforts in this group.
Aileen I am really sorry, the email you have is the account I practically stopped checking regularly since I withdrew from translating group- these days I check it when I remember which is on average once every two weeks.
I will get back to you ASAP. Thank you and all the other members of this extraordinary team for your efforts and I hope to be able to start contributing again.
 

anart

A Disturbance in the Force
Stormy Knight said:
Yes, I am so busy that I cannot do it properly. I tried for a while but it was quite a struggle to reach promised dead lines so I deiced to withdraw, thinking and hoping that in the future I might intensify my efforts in this group.
Aileen I am really sorry, the email you have is the account I practically stopped checking regularly since I withdrew from translating group- these days I check it when I remember which is on average once every two weeks.
I will get back to you ASAP. Thank you and all the other members of this extraordinary team for your efforts and I hope to be able to start contributing again.

Hi StormyKnight, did you tell anyone you were 'withdrawing' from the translating group, or did you just walk away without mentioning it? Also, is there a reason you're coming across as so snippy here:
sk said:
Well sorry Ailen but - I don't think so. ...
I haven't been active in translator's group for awhile so i am not up to date with recent developments but if the same texts are being translated into Serbian and Croatian or even Bosnian that is a terrible waste of time and resources.
?
 
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