Fifth Way said:
Hello Fifth Way,
do you know this topic already: Becoming a SOTT translator: Help needed? Maybe something for considering!? ;)
"The Prayer of the Soul" Translations
- Thread starter Lucius
- Start date
Hello Fifth Way,
do you know this topic already: Becoming a SOTT translator: Help needed? Maybe something for considering!? ;)
Novelis
Jedi Master
The Chinese Translation of Prayer for the soul:
靈魂的禱告
Oh Divine Cosmic Mind 神聖的宇宙之心
Holy Awareness in All Creation 靈明覺照於萬象眾生
Carried in the heart 它存在於心性中
Ruler of the mind 是心智的引領者
Savior of the Soul靈魂的救贖者
Live in me today 今天請駐於我內
Be my Daily Bread 成為供給我的養分
As I give bread to others 當我把這養分給出時
Help me grow in knowledge Of All Creation請助我增長對萬事萬物的真知
Clear my eyes請清洗我的眼睛
That I may See使我能看
Clear my ears潔淨我的耳朵
That I may hear 使我能聽
Cleanse my heart 拂拭我的心
That I may know and love使我能真正瞭解 能深刻去愛
The Holiness of True Existence那尊貴的真實存在
Divine Cosmic Mind神聖的宇宙之心
When I had a look at this translation, I was fine with the overall attempt, since each word was translated into Chinese, there seem to be no faults with sentence structure or grammar, ect...
However, I have come to notice that a translation that is based on the transferral of English words into basic Chinese "equivalents", i.e. a "literal translation", would be doing so without full knowledge of exactly WHAT is being sent.
literal translations might not be the best choice for messages that are not factual information, but are heavily dependent on the knowledge base and interpretation of the reader.
I am concerned that this translation does not carry the essential/functional message, nor might it have the power to really "strike a chord" within the reader.
We have to take into consideration that the Chinese language is rooted in a completely different socio-cultural background/context, meaning that a literal translation of the discourse would not trigger the same cognitive/affective connections in an eastern mind as it would in the western mind.
This prayer, or rather, the essential meaning behind the words that make up this prayer, is inextricably bound to a western world of concepts that English speakers take as "given", and are familiar with (just from living in a western environment), but this is not nessesarily so for Chinese speakers...
So, instead of a literal translation, I think that a functional interpretation of this prayer would be better suited to carry across the essensial message.
However, just in this little piece of discourse, there are a vast amount of functional concepts behind it that are proving very difficult for me to interpret.
To make my point clearer, I will demonstrate a few points, as far as I can manage, given that my understanding of the Chinese language is still imperfect.
Firstly, the English title, "Prayer of the soul" has been translated as 靈魂的禱告.
soul can be translated as 靈魂, but the western concpetion of "a soul" branched out from western historically based ideas of philosophy.
When we say soul, we say that it is the "spiritual or eternal part of a living being, commonly held to be separable in existence from the body; distinct from the body's physical matter..."
The Chinese also have a similar concept, but the philosophical roots are quite different.
From my studies I think that the Chinese reached this concept through mainly Buddhist/Daoist/Confusian roots, which embodies a whole world of concepts that are distinctly different from western roots.
The literal translation of soul into 靈魂 carries a meaning that is, at best, only partly taking all of this background information into consideration, OSIT.
the word 靈魂 has a meaning that is fairly consistant with the English concept only if the Chinese reader has assimliated western socio-cultural contents, and are either Christian or have lived in the west for a long period of time, with personal variations, of course.
I can quite safely say that western socio-cultural contents have not been wholly assimilated by the Chinese culture, so the number of people who would use this word with the prerequisite knowledge of its contextual meaning are very limited.
So far, I cannot determine which word would be appropriate yet, as I haven't found yet how these two worlds of concepts "bridge".
Next, the word prayer, this word is very heavily "Christian", along with its connotations and philosophical meanings rooted in western culture.
The word used in this translation is 禱告, which in Chinese means to correspond and report something...
It is, I think, an overly simplistic interpretation of what prayer means.
"Oh Divine Cosmic Mind", the first line, contains the word "OH", which has a linguistic function all of its own!
I can't think of a Chinese equivalent without changing the whole structure of the clause...
The word "Divine" is translated as 神聖, but this word, pragmatically, is only ever seen in relation to Christian doctrines written in Chinese.
This word doesn't even come close to the actual/essential equivalent from an eastern perspective.
I want to continue analysing this text, I think I can eventually present a text that I can safely say contains the same essential message and spirit as the English version, but that will take a lot of work that I simply can't do it all by myself.
My time is limited, so I just wanted to point out my general thoughts about this translation.
To summerise briefly, the written word of Chinese has linguistic roots that are completely separate from our Latinate language, and if one wants to understand the Chinese language in a non superficial way, then one has to assimilate an entire world of unfamiliar concepts that only exists in Chinese, not in English.
Even the simplest Chinese words that are used everyday (like numbers, for example) have etymological, philosophical, historical, socio-cultural and contextual roots that cannot be fathomed in its fullest way without a thorough comprehension of the writings that makes it what it is, THROUGH the Chinese language!
Any feedback will be appreciated.
靈魂的禱告
Oh Divine Cosmic Mind 神聖的宇宙之心
Holy Awareness in All Creation 靈明覺照於萬象眾生
Carried in the heart 它存在於心性中
Ruler of the mind 是心智的引領者
Savior of the Soul靈魂的救贖者
Live in me today 今天請駐於我內
Be my Daily Bread 成為供給我的養分
As I give bread to others 當我把這養分給出時
Help me grow in knowledge Of All Creation請助我增長對萬事萬物的真知
Clear my eyes請清洗我的眼睛
That I may See使我能看
Clear my ears潔淨我的耳朵
That I may hear 使我能聽
Cleanse my heart 拂拭我的心
That I may know and love使我能真正瞭解 能深刻去愛
The Holiness of True Existence那尊貴的真實存在
Divine Cosmic Mind神聖的宇宙之心
When I had a look at this translation, I was fine with the overall attempt, since each word was translated into Chinese, there seem to be no faults with sentence structure or grammar, ect...
However, I have come to notice that a translation that is based on the transferral of English words into basic Chinese "equivalents", i.e. a "literal translation", would be doing so without full knowledge of exactly WHAT is being sent.
literal translations might not be the best choice for messages that are not factual information, but are heavily dependent on the knowledge base and interpretation of the reader.
I am concerned that this translation does not carry the essential/functional message, nor might it have the power to really "strike a chord" within the reader.
We have to take into consideration that the Chinese language is rooted in a completely different socio-cultural background/context, meaning that a literal translation of the discourse would not trigger the same cognitive/affective connections in an eastern mind as it would in the western mind.
This prayer, or rather, the essential meaning behind the words that make up this prayer, is inextricably bound to a western world of concepts that English speakers take as "given", and are familiar with (just from living in a western environment), but this is not nessesarily so for Chinese speakers...
So, instead of a literal translation, I think that a functional interpretation of this prayer would be better suited to carry across the essensial message.
However, just in this little piece of discourse, there are a vast amount of functional concepts behind it that are proving very difficult for me to interpret.
To make my point clearer, I will demonstrate a few points, as far as I can manage, given that my understanding of the Chinese language is still imperfect.
Firstly, the English title, "Prayer of the soul" has been translated as 靈魂的禱告.
soul can be translated as 靈魂, but the western concpetion of "a soul" branched out from western historically based ideas of philosophy.
When we say soul, we say that it is the "spiritual or eternal part of a living being, commonly held to be separable in existence from the body; distinct from the body's physical matter..."
The Chinese also have a similar concept, but the philosophical roots are quite different.
From my studies I think that the Chinese reached this concept through mainly Buddhist/Daoist/Confusian roots, which embodies a whole world of concepts that are distinctly different from western roots.
The literal translation of soul into 靈魂 carries a meaning that is, at best, only partly taking all of this background information into consideration, OSIT.
the word 靈魂 has a meaning that is fairly consistant with the English concept only if the Chinese reader has assimliated western socio-cultural contents, and are either Christian or have lived in the west for a long period of time, with personal variations, of course.
I can quite safely say that western socio-cultural contents have not been wholly assimilated by the Chinese culture, so the number of people who would use this word with the prerequisite knowledge of its contextual meaning are very limited.
So far, I cannot determine which word would be appropriate yet, as I haven't found yet how these two worlds of concepts "bridge".
Next, the word prayer, this word is very heavily "Christian", along with its connotations and philosophical meanings rooted in western culture.
The word used in this translation is 禱告, which in Chinese means to correspond and report something...
It is, I think, an overly simplistic interpretation of what prayer means.
"Oh Divine Cosmic Mind", the first line, contains the word "OH", which has a linguistic function all of its own!
I can't think of a Chinese equivalent without changing the whole structure of the clause...
The word "Divine" is translated as 神聖, but this word, pragmatically, is only ever seen in relation to Christian doctrines written in Chinese.
This word doesn't even come close to the actual/essential equivalent from an eastern perspective.
I want to continue analysing this text, I think I can eventually present a text that I can safely say contains the same essential message and spirit as the English version, but that will take a lot of work that I simply can't do it all by myself.
My time is limited, so I just wanted to point out my general thoughts about this translation.
To summerise briefly, the written word of Chinese has linguistic roots that are completely separate from our Latinate language, and if one wants to understand the Chinese language in a non superficial way, then one has to assimilate an entire world of unfamiliar concepts that only exists in Chinese, not in English.
Even the simplest Chinese words that are used everyday (like numbers, for example) have etymological, philosophical, historical, socio-cultural and contextual roots that cannot be fathomed in its fullest way without a thorough comprehension of the writings that makes it what it is, THROUGH the Chinese language!
Any feedback will be appreciated.
shijing
The Living Force
Hi Novelis --
You bring up some good points, and I'd be interested in hearing your suggestions after you have some more time to take a look at this. The brief background of the present translation is that it was done by a Taiwanese native speaker who is also a poet. My Chinese background is good enough to proofread the basic structure, but not enough to critique the finer nuances, so I had to trust them to a certain extent to make the appropriate choices in word content and phrasing.
The only thing that I would be wary of is over-complicating the translation -- that is not to say that your points above are not valid, but I think semantic and pragmatic equivalence is an issue with all of the translations into non-English languages, and it may sometimes be hard to get an "exact" equivalent -- there is some point at which we have to trust that the intention behind the prayer itself is going to compensate for these difficulties.
That being said, its good to have your input since we don't have many Chinese-speakers on the forum (that I am aware of, anyway), either native or non-native. One thing you might do is just pick some of your native-speaker friends there in Taiwan and run this past them, just to see what their reactions are, both overall and about specific words and phrases such as those you mention above. Thanks for taking a look at this :)
Novelis said:
You bring up some good points, and I'd be interested in hearing your suggestions after you have some more time to take a look at this. The brief background of the present translation is that it was done by a Taiwanese native speaker who is also a poet. My Chinese background is good enough to proofread the basic structure, but not enough to critique the finer nuances, so I had to trust them to a certain extent to make the appropriate choices in word content and phrasing.
The only thing that I would be wary of is over-complicating the translation -- that is not to say that your points above are not valid, but I think semantic and pragmatic equivalence is an issue with all of the translations into non-English languages, and it may sometimes be hard to get an "exact" equivalent -- there is some point at which we have to trust that the intention behind the prayer itself is going to compensate for these difficulties.
That being said, its good to have your input since we don't have many Chinese-speakers on the forum (that I am aware of, anyway), either native or non-native. One thing you might do is just pick some of your native-speaker friends there in Taiwan and run this past them, just to see what their reactions are, both overall and about specific words and phrases such as those you mention above. Thanks for taking a look at this :)
.................. this is one of the greathest pray /text i read in my life, it has a Light of the Truth!! :)
I understand it and i think it is good translated (readed it on english).
Seems we have sometning together, we understand the message of this Holly Prayer. But in comunication we have a problems i am sory about that. I am very sory i can not to explain you better.
This pray bring the Light and Harmony! It has connection to the 7-D.
Stay in light, bye!
D.
I understand it and i think it is good translated (readed it on english).
Seems we have sometning together, we understand the message of this Holly Prayer. But in comunication we have a problems i am sory about that. I am very sory i can not to explain you better.
This pray bring the Light and Harmony! It has connection to the 7-D.
Stay in light, bye!
D.
"Oh Divina ment còsmica
Sagrada consciència de tota la creació
Duta al cor
Sobirana de la ment
Salvadora de l'ànima
Viu en mi avui
Sigues el meu pa de cada dia
Així com jo dono pa als altres
Ajuda'm a créixer en coneixement
de tota la creació
Neteja els meus ulls
Perquè pugui veure-hi
Neteja les meves orelles
Perquè hi pugui escoltar
Neteja el meu cor
Perquè pugui conèixer i estimar
allò sagrat de la veritable existència
Divina ment còsmica"
That could be a catalan version
Sagrada consciència de tota la creació
Duta al cor
Sobirana de la ment
Salvadora de l'ànima
Viu en mi avui
Sigues el meu pa de cada dia
Així com jo dono pa als altres
Ajuda'm a créixer en coneixement
de tota la creació
Neteja els meus ulls
Perquè pugui veure-hi
Neteja les meves orelles
Perquè hi pugui escoltar
Neteja el meu cor
Perquè pugui conèixer i estimar
allò sagrat de la veritable existència
Divina ment còsmica"
That could be a catalan version
Here's my Bulgarian version, hope it is accurate:
Oh Divine Cosmic Mind
О Свещен Космически Ум
Holly awareness in All Creation
Свещено Съзнание на Всичко Създадено
Carried in the heart
Носен в сърцето
Ruler of the mind
Владетел на ума
Savior of the soul
Спасител на душата
Live in me today
Живей в мен днес
Be my Daily Bread
Бъди моя Дневен Хляб
As I give bread to others
Както аз давам хляб на другите
Help me grow in knowledge
Помогни ми да развивам знанието си
Of all creation
За Всичко Създадено
Clear my eyes
Изчисти очите ми
That I may see
За да мога да видя
Clear my ears
Изчисти ушите ми
That I may hear
За да мога да чуя
Cleanse my heart
Изчисти сърцето ми
That I may know and love
За да мога да знам и обикна
The Holliness of true existence
Светостта на истинското съществуване
Divine Cosmic Mind
Свещен Космически Ум.
Oh Divine Cosmic Mind
О Свещен Космически Ум
Holly awareness in All Creation
Свещено Съзнание на Всичко Създадено
Carried in the heart
Носен в сърцето
Ruler of the mind
Владетел на ума
Savior of the soul
Спасител на душата
Live in me today
Живей в мен днес
Be my Daily Bread
Бъди моя Дневен Хляб
As I give bread to others
Както аз давам хляб на другите
Help me grow in knowledge
Помогни ми да развивам знанието си
Of all creation
За Всичко Създадено
Clear my eyes
Изчисти очите ми
That I may see
За да мога да видя
Clear my ears
Изчисти ушите ми
That I may hear
За да мога да чуя
Cleanse my heart
Изчисти сърцето ми
That I may know and love
За да мога да знам и обикна
The Holliness of true existence
Светостта на истинското съществуване
Divine Cosmic Mind
Свещен Космически Ум.
Nević Nenad
The Living Force
And here is Serbian complete translation (which is mine from page one of this thread).
Which Jubazo kindly translated in Croatian (if that can be done because that’s the same language, but there it is . . . ) so some sentences were puzzling msasa cause not having biblical tone and slightly different grammar in them (something like difference in English and "American")
Which Jubazo kindly translated in Croatian (if that can be done because that’s the same language, but there it is . . . ) so some sentences were puzzling msasa cause not having biblical tone and slightly different grammar in them (something like difference in English and "American")
Avala said:
Piotr
Padawan Learner
Hello all.. I'd like to add to polish version, just as cosmetic operation only, and would change all "Żebym" for "Bym", its sound better for me, this one "Świętość Prawdziwego Istnienia" for "Świętość Wszelkiego Stworzenia" and "Boski Kosmiczny Umysł" for "Boski Kosmiczny Umyśle" as genitive .... what say you?
Mountain Crown
The Living Force
There are now translations for the Prayer of the Soul in these 27 languages:
Afrikaans
Arabic
Bulgarian
Catalan
Chinese
Croatian
Czech
Danish
Dutch
English
Farsi
French
German
Greek
Hindi
Hungarian
Italian
Japanese
Maltese
Polish
Portuguese
Romanian
Russian
Spanish
Turkish
Ukrainian
Vietnamese
Afrikaans
Arabic
Bulgarian
Catalan
Chinese
Croatian
Czech
Danish
Dutch
English
Farsi
French
German
Greek
Hindi
Hungarian
Italian
Japanese
Maltese
Polish
Portuguese
Romanian
Russian
Spanish
Turkish
Ukrainian
Vietnamese
Jerry said:
Awesome! And the whole EE program is about to be released with subtitles in 19 languages:
English
Bulgarian
Chinese
Croatian
Danish
Dutch
Finnish
French
German
Greek
Polish
Portuguese
Romanian
Russian
Serbian
Spanish
Telugu
Turkish
Vietnamese
We will announce it as soon as it is available on our website. The SOTT translators are working on the last details.
