The Usefulness of the Negative Half of the Emotional Center

[arpaxad]

The cassiopieans are us In the future our hire selves chose to be here we are neither created or distroid we cycle back and forth to learn our lessons through experience we develope love light knowledge...Why in the work is there an emphases on developing something that lives on after our physical body? If currently there our higher selves and energy/beings that are us that do last for ever or at least are alive past 3D regardless of our finer energy astral body development. I don't see a need for it per my understanding

This is a realm of speculation, and you should be careful in blindly believing everything you hear and taking things at face value. Even the phrase "you in the future" can be interpreted differently. Who are "you"? Is it somebody specifically or is it the population of the Earth in general, or rather that, unknown yet, portion, that will escape? And what is "future"? How many "lives" away is it? Does it imply a choice? Would you rather wallow in the mud for thousands of lifetimes, before slowly coming to represent what the Cs are referring to, or perhaps make an earnest effort and reach that level in a single one, or two, or three lifetimes? In the end, it may be your choice.

And as for this:

Why in the work is there an emphases on developing something that lives on after our physical body? If currently there our higher selves and energy/beings that are us that do last for ever or at least are alive past 3D regardless of our finer energy astral body development.

Let me try to clarify this once again. The essence of the Work is the development of consciousness. Consciousness is not functions. Higher centers are functions. Thus, you only have access to them when you have developed the ability, not by default. That is my understanding of the theory, although remember, you should only trust your own experience, and do what you feel right for you in the light of what you know for yourself.

 

[Menna]

This is a realm of speculation, and you should be careful in blindly believing everything you hear and taking things at face value. Even the phrase "you in the future" can be interpreted differently. Who are "you"? Is it somebody specifically or is it the population of the Earth in general, or rather that, unknown yet, portion, that will escape? And what is "future"? How many "lives" away is it? Does it imply a choice? Would you rather wallow in the mud for thousands of lifetimes, before slowly coming to represent what the Cs are referring to, or perhaps make an earnest effort and reach that level in a single one, or two, or three lifetimes? In the end, it may be your choice.

Its all a realm of speculation. Talking about something in a network doesn't mean you believe it. Its all speculation unless experienced or proven. In the work you can create finer energy to exist after the physical body dies I get that. However in the speculative theories that have been researched that I have come across that I am now networking about it is my understanding that we have a hire self or exists on another density simultaniusly as we do now and other speculative theories as well including altered DNA and what have you. However If you look into the montauk project and philadelphia experience it doesn't seem as speculative. If we exist at higher levels and else where and we are here to just learn lessons and experience gain knowledge and we will take this will us regardless then my questions remains is there a need not a want or a choice but a need to develop the finer energy in you so that you can live past your physical body if you exists and have always existed without your physical body in the first place? I respect the work ever since finding it nearly 10 years ago it has been a mainstay in my life however in learning about something and learning other things one has questions if I didn't know the work or practice it I wouldn't be here asking this question.

And by posting here on the forum I am trying to find out the necessary and the un necessary so I don't wallow in the mud I think everyone on the forum or at least the vast majority want to progress in the best way possible just like the majority of people who are at a movie want to watch a movie.

 

[arpaxad]

Its all a realm of speculation. Talking about something in a network doesn't mean you believe it. Its all speculation unless experienced or proven. In the work you can create finer energy to exist after the physical body dies I get that. However in the speculative theories that have been researched that I have come across that I am now networking about it is my understanding that we have a hire self or exists on another density simultaniusly as we do now and other speculative theories as well including altered DNA and what have you. However If you look into the montauk project and philadelphia experience it doesn't seem as speculative. If we exist at higher levels and else where and we are here to just learn lessons and experience gain knowledge and we will take this will us regardless then my questions remains is there a need not a want or a choice but a need to develop the finer energy in you so that you can live past your physical body if you exists and have always existed without your physical body in the first place? I respect the work ever since finding it nearly 10 years ago it has been a mainstay in my life however in learning about something and learning other things one has questions if I didn't know the work or practice it I wouldn't be here asking this question.

And by posting here on the forum I am trying to find out the necessary and the un necessary so I don't wallow in the mud I think everyone on the forum or at least the vast majority want to progress in the best way possible just like the majority of people who are at a movie want to watch a movie.

Menna,

I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Please understand that I have to phrase my answers in a very general sense, because I haven't been communicating for any long period of time with the participants of the forum. So, to make sure that some of the basic things I come from are understood, I put an extra emphasis on them. I am sorry for sounding a bit harsh, if that was the case, I should have phrased my answer differently, perhaps. I hope that this will be improved in the future.

However, did you understand what followed?

I believe my analysis of the Cs' words in the case above is rational.

And, importantly, the last paragraph explains some basic postulates of the Fourth Way, for which you have to fish in the Fourth Way books. I come from the tradition, although don't claim the full mastery of the practices, and I devoted a lot of time to reading the books in the past. I hope that my knowledge can make it easier for you to understand certain principles that can be omitted by fragmentary familiarity with the Fourth Way, but which, nevertheless, play a central role in the logical cohesiveness of the System.

 

[Buddy]

I think it's important though to consider whether the end result G had in mind was something set in concrete by Universal law. I don't think he believed it was set or in anyway guaranteed. There are statements and clues in G's writings suggesting that The Fourth Way was simply an experiment, nothing more. When he secluded himself in a monastery for two years, he was pouring over the notes he had made and all the other info and experiences he had to that point in order to formulate and clarify his theory or theories. When he was ready, his first goal was to gather a few different "types" of people on whom to try his approach. Some have even suggested that his car accident and whatnot was his own brazen attempt to find out if he had reached that goal himself.

I tend to disagree. The Work, in Gurjieff's cosmology, is an expression of the ascending part of the Ray of Creation. Some people are destined to escape, for the preservation of the fabric of the Universe, although that number is small and the process is stochastic -- that is, you can't predict who individually will escape, but only that a certain small number of people will escape. The example provided is that of boiling water and some molecules escaping as steam.

I think your steam example actually supports my main idea that Gurdjieff wanted to see if 'escape' could be accomplished through conscious and deliberate work for specific people that he worked with in person, although I could have made my point clearer, I think.

I'll grant you the point that he may not have believed that 'escape' is impossible any other way but his way. He may even have thought that the wisdom of the ancients must have had some results for someone. Surely he didn't think that random psychologically disturbed people 'escaped', while every single one of those who spent their entire self-disciplined lives in esoteric work accomplished nothing.

And there's also that comment from G's father that G troubles himself to write about in MWRM when he mentions his experiment with that medium and the doll-thing he was making for use while his subject was under hypnosis. The father specifically used a phrase indicating a period of time between something surviving bodily death and before it disintegrated and it read like G and his father was on the same page regarding that issue.

All this is not meant to nullify the principle of verification: i.e., you have to know everything for yourself, based on your own experiments and observations (aka the scientific method). If Gurdjieff knew everything or not, should not be our concern, for even his own words were, in essence, that you shouldn't believe anybody blindly, no matter who says it.

Yeah, we've had similar discussions on here before. We know Gurdjieff didn't have the whole banana (Laura's expression with which I agree for my own reasons), so I think there's no danger of anyone here believing G blindly or believing that he knew everything. That would go against my natural tendency anyway.

 

[arpaxad]

Great.

Thanks. :)

Gurdjieff did present the idea, though, that the "Fourth Way" was present throughout the ages, albeit in different forms and under different disguises. And I would like to stress emphatically that in this he was not dissimilar to H. P. Blavatsky, who essentially offered the same idea.

As for the Meetings with Remarkable Men references, I don't dig most of them, for it's been a while since I've read it. I wasn't impressed by it, and, moreover, as I have written here somewhere already, it was intended for being introduced only to those students who have "passed" the thourough study of the Beelzebub's Tales. Besides possibly being just a fragment of the intended second series, it may not all represent real events (although I, personally, don't have an innate tendency to not trust the author's words in this case, as also emphatically applies to H. P. Blavatsky, or, rather, her self-assured critics who like to call everything that was not documented by an official record of some sort "unreliable later accounts" and "falsifications" :P).

 

[obyvatel]

[quote author=Menna]
Its all a realm of speculation. Talking about something in a network doesn't mean you believe it. Its all speculation unless experienced or proven. In the work you can create finer energy to exist after the physical body dies I get that. However in the speculative theories that have been researched that I have come across that I am now networking about it is my understanding that we have a hire self or exists on another density simultaniusly as we do now and other speculative theories as well including altered DNA and what have you. However If you look into the montauk project and philadelphia experience it doesn't seem as speculative. If we exist at higher levels and else where and we are here to just learn lessons and experience gain knowledge and we will take this will us regardless then my questions remains is there a need not a want or a choice but a need to develop the finer energy in you so that you can live past your physical body if you exists and have always existed without your physical body in the first place?
[/quote]

Hi Menna,
I think the question you asked is tied to the more general question "what is the aim and purpose of human existence". It is an important philosophical question. It has resulted in different speculative views about the nature of existence. There is no definitive answer as yet.

I am more interested in the effect such questions have on us from a psychological perspective. Whether it is existential crisis/hedonism in materialistic perspectives, "coating of higher being bodies" in 4th Way, "enlightenment/nirvana/satori" in eastern religions and their offshoots, or attaining "paradise" in Abrahamic religions, these images/ideas affect us in certain ways, influencing our behavior and lives.

I came across the term "curative fantasy" in context of meditation.

[quote author=Barry Magid]
A curative fantasy is a personal myth that we use to explain what is wrong with us and our lives and what we imagine is going to make it all better.
[/quote]

I think speculations about "higher realities" often contain a component of such a "curative fantasy". It is not necessarily bad or harmful. I guess at our level it can have the effect of keeping us going in the face of adversity. However, it may be useful to be aware of the existence of personal or collective curative fantasies.

[quote author=Menna]
Why in the work is there an emphases on developing something that lives on after our physical body? If currently there our higher selves and energy/beings that are us that do last for ever or at least are alive past 3D regardless of our finer energy astral body development. I don't see a need for it per my understanding
[/quote]

For myself, developing something that can potentially live after death has no practical appeal. What I get from 4th Way Work are applications of

- self observation
- non-identification
- self remembering

These principles are practical. The results they produce are real and quite useful for life on earth here and now.

Add on to the above

- conscious labor
- intentional suffering

which lead to doing things that potentially benefit others.

If doing all this in life leads to something in "after-life", so be it. But that is not a reason to follow the 4th Way path for me.

 

[Menna]

Hi Menna,
I think the question you asked is tied to the more general question "what is the aim and purpose of human existence". It is an important philosophical question. It has resulted in different speculative views about the nature of existence. There is no definitive answer as yet.

I am more interested in the effect such questions have on us from a psychological perspective. Whether it is existential crisis/hedonism in materialistic perspectives, "coating of higher being bodies" in 4th Way, "enlightenment/nirvana/satori" in eastern religions and their offshoots, or attaining "paradise" in Abrahamic religions, these images/ideas affect us in certain ways, influencing our behavior and lives.

I came across the term "curative fantasy" in context of meditation.

Quote from: Barry Magid
A curative fantasy is a personal myth that we use to explain what is wrong with us and our lives and what we imagine is going to make it all better.

I think speculations about "higher realities" often contain a component of such a "curative fantasy". It is not necessarily bad or harmful. I guess at our level it can have the effect of keeping us going in the face of adversity. However, it may be useful to be aware of the existence of personal or collective curative fantasies.

Not human existence in and of itself but I speculate and ask for a level above. What is the purpose of human existence for the next level and the level beyond that and for the evolution of ones being what is the universal aim for the reason we chose to have this human existence?. In understanding the term curative fantasy - Is there another term for building on a personal truth to find out the need/objective of that personal truth? I speculate to understand so I can work in the right way. Not so much explain what is wrong with myself but to find out what I am doing that is wrong correct or throw it out and get back on the path In and of itself if I correct what I am doing wrong then my function after doing what is right will align with my new mentality/actions/understanding and what is wrong will fall away organically. I am talking about higher realities to ask the questions if (in speculation) we exist in these higher realities or at the same time as now in a different reality regardless of our physical body then what is the need to create a finer energy that exists after the physical body (speculation)? Existing at higher realities is speculation and so is the idea of creating the finer energy to exists after physical body death. However I believe that personal truth is recognized through feeling/knowing by the emotional center/solar plex this is important to follow (personal truth) until theres an experience that proves its wrong or needs to be adjusted. I do believe regardless if its a personal myth and or speculation and or relative truth that we are here to gain wisdom/knowledge/understanding and that our soul/being exists past 3D. This leads me to my question what is the bigger picture of gaining wisdom, knowledge and understanding for next step purpose what is the application? I am asking these other speculative question based on my personal truth because to use an analogy if I am using ingrediance (wisdom/knowledge/understanding) to make a dessert I can better work with the ingrediance the process is easier for me if I have a picture of what the result from putting the ingrediance together will be. Now this is all my thinking and words coming from a 3D mind using 3D language trying to understand what is not 3D so please bare with me as I am not trying to use a word to ask a question I am trying to use a concept based on a personal truth to ask a question.

developing something that can potentially live after death has no practical appeal. What I get from 4th Way Work are applications of

- self observation
- non-identification
- self remembering

These principles are practical. The results they produce are real and quite useful for life on earth here and now.

Add on to the above

- conscious labor
- intentional suffering

which lead to doing things that potentially benefit others.

If doing all this in life leads to something in "after-life", so be it. But that is not a reason to follow the 4th Way path for me.

Exactly and I have the same mentality with the work the concepts are real and have application in life however the results of creating finer energy for after life would be something extra something that happens without me wanting it or trying to attain it. However I am asking is there a need for that to happen? Following my personal truth of gaining wisdom/knowledge/understanding being the reason for our human existence why we chose to be here then the question comes what is the application/reason for our human existence in terms of why we chose to be here from a next level standpoint what do we do with our human existence after we have it what is the universal objective? Now this is where speculatory research and concepts enter in however I welcome them. I was born in the 80's and feel that I have "time" (unfortunate accident aside) and I don't mind researching and coming across, networking about speculatory theories/research that is in line with this mentality this way of thinking. I have done this research before however have not networked about it. I have time and want to experience situations and different things keeping my personal truths, universal truths and speculatory theories in mind as I go through experiences that I chose to have. This is why I ask.

Maybe the finer energy exists in a time/space where those without it don't go and there is greater understanding to gain/experience that will lead to understanding of universal objective? Totally speculative however thinking like this creates motion in me I am able to entertain ideas sit with them for however long and then stop or continue giving energy to them

 

[arpaxad]

I think this is all good thinking by Menna, and I generally sympathize with it, although, being practically on the same level, I can only answer in the same context of "personal truth" or "curative fantasy," whichever term you prefer. I think that this, ultimately, comes to one's own personal search, and unless one meets a real Teacher, whose truthfulness one can trust, it may only be supported by reference to other sources, which all still stand to be verified. However, also, as obyvatel so wonderfully explained, one may see the underlying Unity in almost all traditions -- be it the Abrahamic traditions, Eastern spirituality, or the Fourth Way.

In that respect, if you dig the development of the Will and Individuality, as well as Consciousness, you may also dig the resulting ability to work for the Highest Cause (completely aligned with the STO ethics, IMO). What comes to mind is the boddhisattva ideal of work for the benefit of all beings before personal liberation can be fully achieved. That, imho, is the highest ideal one may follow, and that is something that appeals to me, being put in the most succinct way.

 

[Menna]

That, imho, is the highest ideal one may follow, and that is something that appeals to me, being put in the most succinct way

Yes however in my experience activily pursing an idea or value has to stop being active when coming up against or in certain situations. At the end of the day we are STS and do live in an STS world. Even when striving to be STO we sometimes have to be STS if you know what I mean. My activities that I don't take a break from are gaining knowledge to progress, in my career, interests and physical and mental abilities. I more so follow what life, the work, and experience has taught me to continue on in the different areas of my life that I chose to pursue if they are totally STO or STS or a mix of both im not sure however based on what you have stated I am going to go out on a limb and say that you might surmise that we chose to be STS to actively strive to be STO or in going with the bolded above it feels right to you to continuously strive to be STO? In this "appealing to me" this is in the realm of the person truth or the esoteric feeling that I was talking about in my last post.

 

[Buddy]

Not human existence in and of itself but I speculate and ask for a level above. What is the purpose of human existence for the next level and the level beyond that and for the evolution of ones being what is the universal aim for the reason we chose to have this human existence?

I think Laura has covered this type of territory before insofar as the C's use of the grade school analogy has been explained.

Basically, I see your questions as essentially asking what is the aim and/or purpose of fourth and fifth grade before actually getting to a point in 3rd grade where your understanding of what you have learned can show you a clearer picture of where you are going and what tasks might be left to do in 3rd before summer recess.

I don't mean this in any kind of derogatory way at all, just trying to understand how to answer by finding an appropriate analogy to map your concerns to a more concrete example. If you were part-way through learning basic mathematics (or business math) and you were told that next up was algebra with its variables, square root symbols and whatnot, would it make complete sense to you before you experienced the transition to that next level and actually learned by working the patterns of the equations?

 

[obyvatel]

[quote author=Menna]
In understanding the term curative fantasy - Is there another term for building on a personal truth to find out the need/objective of that personal truth?
[/quote]

I do not know if there is such a thing called "personal truth". There is "truth" and there is "personal experience" through which one can understand truth.

Curative fantasy refers to a belief. It is a specific type of belief which is related to solving our problems and curing our ills.

If we start any practice with unexamined beliefs or expectations, there may come a time when we start questioning the practice. At that time it is useful to uncover such expectations and ask whether they are realistic in the context of the practice. So a question to ask is "why do I engage with this practice? Or what do I expect to get out of it?"


[quote author=Menna]
I am talking about higher realities to ask the questions if (in speculation) we exist in these higher realities or at the same time as now in a different reality regardless of our physical body then what is the need to create a finer energy that exists after the physical body (speculation)?
[/quote]

I would ask you to ponder why this question is important to you. Any attempt to answer such a question will involve many assumptions and beliefs. I will try to provide a speculative answer in a framework where we assume there exists higher selves in multiple realities.

An analogy may be useful in this regard. Some time ago my computer "died". I knew it was dying and I tried to download all the personal data I stored in it to a portable drive. I was partially successful. When I get a new computer, I will download that data into the new computer.

I can treat myself as a higher self and the computers as lower selves. I can say a lower self (old computer) died and reincarnated (in the new computer). I can extend the situation to multiple computers operating simultaneously and potentially sharing data. This will be akin to parallel lives. I, the higher self, use the computers, the lower selves, to learn, and do work.

In order for me to use the computers properly, they should work properly. If they are virus ridden, they cannot be of use to me and cannot provide me with useful data.

Keeping this general picture in mind, consider that I am now physically far away from these computers. These are on a network and I still get a download of data from them periodically. If the fidelity of the data is questionable, then I have limited means at my disposal to correct the situation. I may try to download and run an anti-virus program through the network. If the network connection is slow and unreliable, then the computers at the receiving end do not receive what I transmit. In addition, there could be other users hacking into the connection and taking control of the computers.

Working to develop a finer body that survives physical death could mean a higher quality and quantity of data acquired during the lifetime of the computer given back to the source (higher self/system administrator) with minimal errors. No Work, no coherent finer body, means not much useful data fed back to the source. Like if a computer is virus ridden the data is corrupted. If it dies suddenly without having backed itself up ( in the finer body?) all the data acquired may be lost.

One can make this analogy better, separating out storage capacity (memory), processing power and quality of network connection. But this is a general theme. In a nutshell, the computers exist to serve some purpose and they need to be in good working condition to serve their purpose. Good systems also have backups to prevent loss of data. In the 4th Way context, developing higher bodies may be analogous adding features to improve memory, backup storage, processing ability and networking capability with the higher self/system administrator.

fwiw

 

[Buddy]

Love that computer analogy! Hope you don't mind if I add to it.

Working to develop a finer body that survives physical death could mean a higher quality and quantity of data acquired during the lifetime of the computer given back to the source (higher self/system administrator) with minimal errors.

...and here is where we might link and emphasize responsibility for the software we install (the quality and usefulness of the information and instructions for computing). Example: raising the quality of data output could be related to making a tax return more accurate by using calculating software that can produce an accuracy to 23 decimal places (as compared to cheap, two decimal accuracy and what can be underpaid when large sums of money have to be accounted for). Software=what we decide to invest time in studying and learning.

 

[arpaxad]

Yes however in my experience activily pursing an idea or value has to stop being active when coming up against or in certain situations.

An ideal is, by definition, something that will come up against real-life situations, yet, IMO, its continuing value is due to the fact that it corresponds with the person's analysis of the situation on a higher scale.

At the end of the day we are STS and do live in an STS world.

Questionable, IMO, unless one's care for the machine should be classified as STS. As exemplified by many spiritual teachings of the past (e.g., Buddhism), this necessary care can be practically limited to the most optimal scenario. Also see the example by Obyvatel above.

[I']m not sure however based on what you have stated I am going to go out on a limb and say that you might surmise that we chose to be STS to actively strive to be STO

I am not making any assumptions on this.

or in going with the bolded above it feels right to you to continuously strive to be STO?

I admit that may be a possibility. :)

 

[Neil]

I think this question of growing the higher bodies can be more accurately explained in terms of the Cassiopaeans' concept of receivership capacity. I think cross referencing what the 4th way stuff says about creating a real I with what the Cassiopaeans say about higher densities and how they interact with us can provide something of an answer.

Let's review the default state of a person not involved in esoteric work. They consist of many i's. There is one i that is very selfish and consumptive and likes to go to the mall on Saturdays and spend money frivolously. There is another i that likes to go out to charity events and volunteer at soup kitchens for the homeless. These two i's are antipodes and their efforts and tastes basically cancel each other out so that the overall organism/collective of i's merely spins around in a circle without being united by a common aim. In the average "John Doe" these days, the fragmentation is severe enough that when his contradictory behavior is pointed out to him, he merely rationalizes it as "preference" or "moods," and sees nothing particularly the matter with it. It is a logical deduction to say that these two i's are completely unknown to each other, and they are even unknown to the incarnated consciousness, if there is one, until it learns to self-observe. These i's are separated by a rift formed from a low level of being and lack of knowledge and awareness. According to Gurdjieff, this type of person is "dead inside" and lives life completely under the slumber of A influences, so that when he dies, nothing is preserved because nothing was ever solidified/crystalized in him in the first place.

The object of the 4th way techniques such as self-remembering, conscious labor, non-identification, etc is to build a permanent I that is no longer subordinate to the winds of fate, but in control of its own destiny. As the I is perfected it moves through different levels of refinement such as man number 5, 6, and 7. Theoretically, a man number 7 would have learned all of the karmic lessons of this density and would be ready to move on to the next one. In a higher density, he gets a more rarified body with greater capabilities that is subject to lesser number of laws. He moves into a higher cosmos that has commensurately fewer laws. Perhaps this could be the "mental body."

But this man number 7 is only one I. There are different versions of himself in different timelines and different universes. Some never had any interest in esoteric work, some are very far advanced, some are STS and some are STO. In some timelines he didn't incarnate at all. Some multitudes of these I's eventually did get to 4D, but they are all more or less on their own separate paths with their own agendas. Let's look at this in the context of this quote.

Q: (T) Okay, you are riding on the crest of this wave in 6th density, is this true?
A: Yes. We are you in 6th density.
Q: (T) You are we, that is me T***, Laura, J*** and F***?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Are you alternate selves extending into higher densities?
A: At your current reference point in space time, we are you in the future.
Q: (T) We are your destiny?
A: And vice versa.
Q: (L) You are not, by any chance, one of those weird ant or preying mantis beings are you?
A: Yes and no.
Q: (T) You are just another part of ourselves? You, us, the Lizards, the ants, the grays, the trees...
A: We are your whole self as you/we are in 6th density.
Q: (T) So, what we are working to become is You? You are us?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) So, when we move to 4th density and become whole with ourselves, we will know you also for a short time?
A: Not whole yet when at 4th density.
Q: (T) But in order to move to 4th density...
A: Closer.
Q: (T) We, us, in this room, are closer than others are?
A: No. Closer when at 4th density.
Q: (L) When S*** was under hypnosis she described seeing a fleet of space ships "riding a wave" and this unnerved her. She felt this wave was a fearful, invasion-type thing. Was this you and your wave she was perceiving?
A: Wave is transport mode.
Q: (L) Is that transport mode for many beings?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Are you coming to invade us?
A: No, merge.

So one is only "whole" at 6D, where all of the I's in the lower densities, STS and STO, are integrated into the I of the oversoul in a realm of perfect balance. This would correspond to the "causal body," the only body in the 4th way literature which is considered immortal. All lower bodies are subject to the cycle of reincarnation and are impermanent. From the point of view of 6D everything happens simultaneously, but as a 3D fragment stuck in linear time, these higher bodies appear to be grown in our future, because we are currently working to create a vessel of Being which can receive enough higher impressions to reconnect with the whole. This is why they say "we are you in the future, at your current reference point in space time," when it is the present for them. This is similar to the fragmentation of the little i's in the crucible which are fused into the I of the individuality during esoteric work in 3D, only the scale is different. We are sort of like the little i's of our 6D selves. I guess this is why they say helping us helps them, because the more we work on ourselves and integrate ourselves, the better they are able to work on themselves and integrate themselves, making it easier to merge at some distant day in the "future."

It is a somewhat theoretical understanding of the bodies, but an explanation which I think jives very well with the observations from what has been ongoing with the Cassiopaean experiment.

 

[Buddy]

Neil, as soon as you logged on, I somehow knew you'd come over here and add to this thread. I must be going psychic! :D Thanks for the input.

This is why they say "we are you in the future, at your current reference point in space time," when it is the present for them.

Based on the timeless or reciprocal principle, would you also say there is something else implicit in that statement that is just as important:

"we are you in the future, at your current reference point in space time," ...and as your current state of development projects/creates us/you into the future? (or how would you rephrase that?)

If so, that would link up with the already expressed idea that if Laura et al were to shut down her work (something happened to her) they'd most likely be no "we are you in the future" in any way that we currently recognize. It would also link to the idea of acting today, the way we want to be tomorrow, etc., etc., so that what we do today is how our future self would break down if we could see time flow backwards from the future. This idea would also seem to be reflected in the manifestation exercise I've read about by putting pieces together from what I've read on here.