The Vegetarian Myth

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

I remember the books content somewhat but not the name of the author. She claimed to be telepathic and to be able to speak to all her animals on her farm. The author even had courses in animal-telepathy, be that as it may it seemed to me from her writing that she really loved her animals, dog, cats, cows and all manners of critters on her farm.
The main point for me was the fact that she gave up meat because of that, her close relationship with animals, for some time - and she wrote that it made her weak and lethargic. She began to eat meat again once a week to survive basically and my impression was that she really appreciated her animals even more for it. That made a very strong impression on me.
 
Re: The Vegetarian Stance

...if a vegetarian had come to him as a disciple, the first thing he would insist was, "Eat meat!"
Not for health, but for shock. This was a very shocking thing for a vegetarian -- to be told to eat meat.
And Gurdjieff was a tough master; he would throw you out if you didn't listen to him, if you didn't follow the command, if you didn't follow the discipline. He would force you to eat meat. Now, when a vegetarian eats meat he becomes very conscious -- he has to. He has no idea in the past, no experience in the past, of eating meat.

And if a meat-eater had come to him as a disciple, , then Gurdjieff would say, "For a few weeks you be just vegetarian. No meat at all -- no eggs, no milk, no animal food of any kind. Just eat vegetables."
The whole body system had become accustomed to a certain pattern.
He would change people's eating hours. If you were eating every day at one o'clock, he would say, "Eat at nine." If you were going to sleep every day at twelve, he would say to go at two or at ten. He would change everything.
A man who had never been drinking wine, he would force to drink wine just to change and shatter his pattern. The man who had been a drunkard, he would stop him from drinking.

Gurdjieff was puzzling to people, but the method is simple: he was trying to de-automatize. He was one of the greatest masters of this age, very much misunderstood. Naturally, everybody was against him. Who has ever heard of religious masters forcing their disciples to drink? -- FORCING, actually forcing. And he would sit there....

The greatest thing in his commune was the dinner. It used to last four, five, six, seven hours. Every evening it would start... and it would end in the middle of the night. And he himself would take care of everybody, of what was being eaten, of what was given to them -- and he would go on forcing. People would become so drunk they would fall on the ground, and they would start saying things in their drunkenness -- and he would sit by the side and listen. He also used to drink with them, but he had worked hard on the way.

So don't get caught up in the method. Don't go to extremes now. Eat for health, too much of anything makes a glutton. I am an omnivore, a little of this, a little of that. You need Vitamin B-12. Plants do not have it. If you don't want liver, eat fish, snapper and salmon. If you don't want meat, use a B-12 supplement. Research. There are things you need to know...Vitamin B6 is required for proper absorption of vitamin B12...Conversion of vitamin B12 from its non-active into its biologically active form requires the presence of vitamin E. ...many medications can diminish the body's supply of vitamin B12.

There are many more health concerns; obesity, acid/alkaline imbalance...look in the mirror, it's not about who is better, watch the ego, it makes a mockery.

Remember,
--”Remain completely undisturbed.” Once you know a cool center within you in a hot situation, you cannot forget it, and then in any hot situation you can remember it, reclaim it, regain it.

--"This is a dream." Walking on the street, "This is a dream"; the dog barking, "This is a dream."

--Make yourself non mechanical...self-remembering.
 
Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Hi karl,

As we don't encourage double posting, I removed your second post in the other thread. I would like to encourage you however to post an introduction in the newbies thread. It doesn't have to be long, just little something about yourself and how you found the forum.
 
Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Also, Karl, your advice doesn't apply nowadays. If a person who has allergies eats a little bit of this and a little bit of that, they will suffer. Also, our food environment is filled with cleverly engineered "food" made from dangerous yet enticing substances, cereal grains, way too much sugars, not to mention pesticides, GMO soy and corn products, etc. Maybe your advice would apply during hunting gathering times, but not now.

You also use a lot of command words "Don't do this," "Do this," etc., while invoking Gurdjieff as an authority. Maybe just describing how you choose what to eat would be better than making prescriptions for everyone.
 
Re: The Vegetarian Stance

truth seeker said:
Hi karl,

As we don't encourage double posting, I removed your second post in the other thread. I would like to encourage you however to post an introduction in the newbies thread. It doesn't have to be long, just little something about yourself and how you found the forum.
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I appreciate you removing the double post! It was a mistake, and I found there was no way to delete a post, or report oneself to the moderator. Thank you.
 
Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Mr. Premise said:
Also, Karl, your advice doesn't apply nowadays. If a person who has allergies eats a little bit of this and a little bit of that, they will suffer. Also, our food environment is filled with cleverly engineered "food" made from dangerous yet enticing substances, cereal grains, way too much sugars, not to mention pesticides, GMO soy and corn products, etc. Maybe your advice would apply during hunting gathering times, but not now.

You also use a lot of command words "Don't do this," "Do this," etc., while invoking Gurdjieff as an authority. Maybe just describing how you choose what to eat would be better than making prescriptions for everyone.
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Yes, you are correct.... a little bit of this and that works for me because I know my body and what doesn't work. And my "bits" will not be necessarily be others bits. I have adverse reactions to some foods that others don't..When I say omnivore, I clarify, an omnivore within a certain framework...

How I choose what to eat;
I am not a fan of GM crops or seeds, nor of industrial animal farms and the injections of hormones and antibiotics and animal feed supplies with genetically-modified organisms, I avoid dairy because of my own negative body reactions, eat a wide variety of fruits and vegetables, brown rice, legumes, very little wheat and cereals, certain fish and seafood, range fed chicken eggs.
I don't eat soy products, or processed sugar, no sodas, chips and other "fillers", processed foods, and alcohol gives me indigestion!
I eat organic, as much as this is possible in this world with pesticide drift.

I avoid neurotoxic food additives/poisons such as aspartame, monosodium glutamate, textured vegetable protein, hydrolyzed oils, food dyes... that can cause severe reactions like migraines, asthma, depression, anxiety, aggression, chronic fatigue, cancers,
http://www.rtnc411.org/rtnc-list.html

I am constantly amazed at the"eat whatever we say to eat" dictates from the corporate meat, dairy, processed food, chemical and pharmaceutical cartel propagandists, and at the gullibility of it's subscribers.

That is why I advocate dietary research. Vegetarians aren't wrong, meat eaters aren't wrong, ignorance can run in both circles and generalizations fail...one just need a little care into body requirements.
As far as Gurdjieff's dont's for meat eaters/vegetarians, it was a technique to alter perceptions and foster self-awareness, not dietary dictates, but you knew that!
Thanks
 
Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Thanks for the clarification, Karl. Since you like to do research and are very knowledgable you will probably enjoy the Diet and Nutrition sections of the forum. Tons of good stuff there.
 
Vegetarian Myth

I am disappointed & disgusted that SOTT would stoop so low as to carry this ill-written rant & then delete the link provided by Topher - if this were not bad enough, there is another poorly researched article about "killer rats" - both unsubstantiated nonsense. I shall be "un-liking" this site on my FaceBook page, & leaving the forum.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/229711-The-Vegetarian-Myth

I daresay you will be deleting this entry as well.
 
Re: Vegetarian Myth

Taitai,

If after being a member on this forum for almost 3 years and still know so little about who we are and what we do, then I really don't know what to say.
 
Re: Vegetarian Myth

truth seeker said:
Taitai,

If after being a member on this forum for almost 3 years and still know so little about who we are and what we do, then I really don't know what to say.
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Can we say "sacred cow".

In the QFS slang, this refers to a tightly held belief with which one is identified. Questioning the belief will be seen as questioning the holder of the belief and often taken as a personal attack. Oftentimes, the more the sacred cow is at odds with reality, the more ferociously the believer will cling to it.
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Re: Vegetarian Myth

taitai said:
I am disappointed & disgusted that SOTT would stoop so low as to carry this ill-written rant & then delete the link provided by Topher - if this were not bad enough, there is another poorly researched article about "killer rats" - both unsubstantiated nonsense. I shall be "un-liking" this site on my FaceBook page, & leaving the forum.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/229711-The-Vegetarian-Myth

I daresay you will be deleting this entry as well.
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After 3 years you should know that nothing that can be seen as an example will be deleted. :knitting:


Good luck, dude. If you change your mind, we'll be here. :bye:
 
Re: Vegetarian Myth

Gandalf said:
Can we say "sacred cow".
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You can say that again! Wow! I don't know if you also meant to write a pun, Gandalf, but this term is quite funny when considering the topic... ;D

We get that reaction very often about vegetarianism. It is amazing how the system has made it so that this is such a sensitive topic. A lot of data is available to prove that a vegetarian diet is not the best, to say the least, but people still insist on it being good. The mere concept is fully charged.
 
Re: Vegetarian Myth

taitai said:
I am disappointed & disgusted that SOTT would stoop so low as to carry this ill-written rant
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I read the article and can see neither poor writing skills or ranting, but instead a review of a book that seems to fit quote well the theory of diet we have been researching/developing/refining on the forum for some years.
Perhaps you would care to point out the ranting and poor writing skills? Or is your reaction based purely on emotions that it brought up?

taitai said:
unsubstantiated nonsense
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So you've read the book reviewed and have plenty of data to back up this claim? Or is it that vegetarianism a sacred cow you are actively defending instead of questioning, as the books author points out?

I was on the side of righteousness, and like any fundamentalist, I could only stay there by avoiding information.
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Given the women was a vegan for 20 years, perhaps you should (if you are even able too?) consider her position and research for more than a moment?

Or do you find yourself unable to even entertain the possibility, all the while your emotions run away with you and your blood boils? Reacting purely mechanically? Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why you can only react in such a way and no other?

Ms. Keith was a practicing vegetarian (vegan) for twenty years, driven by her passion for kindness and justice for all creatures. She couldn't bear the thought of even killing a garden slug, or, for that matter, even removing a garden slug from her garden to a place where something or someone else might kill it. Her years of compassionate avoidance of any foods of animal origin cost her her health. Her story of coming to grips with the realization that whatever she ate came as a consequence of some living being's having to die form the matrix onto which her narrative hangs.
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Re: Vegetarian Myth

For the benefit of anyone who's interested in learning about this subject further, the link below may be of help:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=20771.0
 
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