The Vegetarian Myth

[Gimpy]

Laura

We are all actually eating less and feeling more satisfied; have lost cravings and not just for food, but for all kinds of things. Makes one wonder if unnamed feelings of dissatisfaction and feeling ill at ease, unloved, unhappy in general and so forth might simply be the body's hunger for nourishing food affecting the mind in all sorts of ways.

I hope this happens for me soon. I think I am headed in that direction but it seems to be taking me longer than most.

Same here. Ordered the Vegetarian Myth a couple days ago, since then have been hammered by depression and 'programs'. (The one that actually made me laugh? "You're worth more dead, than alive."--program...my answer to that? "I am NOT Michael Jackson! GEEZ!) ;)

 

[mcb]

...We are all actually eating less and feeling more satisfied; have lost cravings and not just for food, but for all kinds of things. Makes one wonder if unnamed feelings of dissatisfaction and feeling ill at ease, unloved, unhappy in general and so forth might simply be the body's hunger for nourishing food affecting the mind in all sorts of ways.

I'm really glad your BP is down!!!

I am still dealing with a lot of issues, especially the ones I seem to have been born with. The odd thing, though, is that those things are not bothering me the way they did. It helps a great deal that I am no longer gaining weight or going about feeling hungry. Even stress-related eating is diminished. I think you are on to something. :)

 

[Laura]

...We are all actually eating less and feeling more satisfied; have lost cravings and not just for food, but for all kinds of things. Makes one wonder if unnamed feelings of dissatisfaction and feeling ill at ease, unloved, unhappy in general and so forth might simply be the body's hunger for nourishing food affecting the mind in all sorts of ways.

I'm really glad your BP is down!!!

I am still dealing with a lot of issues, especially the ones I seem to have been born with. The odd thing, though, is that those things are not bothering me the way they did. It helps a great deal that I am no longer gaining weight or going about feeling hungry. Even stress-related eating is diminished. I think you are on to something. :)

It takes longer for some of us, but I think the improvements are cumulative. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I even wonder if some DNA changing isn't going on though that may take a bit more time to get operative.

 

[SolarMother]

I posted about this once before about 2 weeks ago and thought it would be better by now, but I am still dealing with constipation re this switch off of carbs and onto sat fat. I take magnesium and pro-biotics regularly and drink about 6 glasses of water daily, sometimes more since it is hotter now.
I get diarrhea or I get constipated--back and forth. Anyone else having these problems for this long a period?
Its been a total of about 5 weeks of having this, with the first 2 weeks being too much meat/protein and now that is corrected, these last 3 weeks being more fat and a lot less carbs.
I am having some fruit here and there, but not daily, and my carbs are about 70g daily.

Forgot to mention that I walk at least 30 minutes daily, hike once a week and do yoga stretches every other day. Sleep has not been good since I am under stress re not finding jobs yet and money running low. But even when there was more money, I had the constipation problem which seems to coincide with the lessening of carbs.
Thanks in advance!

 

[RedFox]

I posted about this once before about 2 weeks ago and thought it would be better by now, but I am still dealing with constipation re this switch off of carbs and onto sat fat. I take magnesium and pro-biotics regularly and drink about 6 glasses of water daily, sometimes more since it is hotter now.
I get diarrhea or I get constipated--back and forth. Anyone else having these problems for this long a period?

It took about 3-4 weeks for me to stabilise, and even now the balance gets upset if I'm not careful.
Psyche mentioned (can't find the thread) that she couldn't get the balance of magnesium citrate right and would either be too loose or constipated, so was using magnesium malate/ororate I think. You could also use transdermal magnesium as that doesn't cause your bowels to be overly loose (you could then at least rule out the magnesium as the trigger).

One thing that does seem to happen is that you become more sensitive to certain things, for example too much sugar (fruit) in one go, or too much salad (insoluble fibre) will set me off. Too much fat will also do so - but this leads to nausea first. Some types of fat did not agree with me either - duck/goose fat seems to suit me best.
I think part of it is that food I thought was ok for me, turns out not to be - especially plants.

Make sure you are taking a good digestive aid (that is gluten/dairy free) with ox bile in too. If I skip those for a day or more I'll end up unbalanced again.

In short, stick with meat, fat and one/two root vegetables (sweat potatoes and carrots are good) until things settle, then reintroduce other vegetables/fruits etc as if doing the ultra-simple food tolerance testing. This is working for me so far.

 

[Gertrudes]

Anyone else having these problems for this long a period?

Hi SolarMother, I'm just finishing a book that has also been mentioned here and there called "Fiber Menace". It is basically a book about digestive disorders of the intestines (altough he also mentions the others digestive organs). I recently made a post about it that I'll quote again here as some of it seems to apply to you:

I'm reaching the end of the book "Fiber Menace" which is proving to be a very enlightening read. The author has a strong case for how fiber affects our diet in a very negative way. The conclusion I am reaching regarding my own health issues is that I likely suffer from dysbacteriosis, a condition where there is lack of good bacteria. I probably have been suffering from this on and off for years, as occasionally the shape of my stools seem to indicate, and it is now more prevalent. The anti fungals have likely wiped out all my good bacteria and I need to replace them.

Another thing that he mentions and that is making me re consider a lot of my previous approaches to bowel dysfunctions, is that indigestible fiber creates large stools that only strain more the colon leading to its forced enlargement, desensitization, and constipation. This is summarizing to the extreme what he says in a whole book. Up till here so far so good, but what caught my attention is that he says that as the good bacteria is wiped out, we then start adding soluble fiber supplement or excess soluble fiber foods that indeed gives one the impression of having become regular again, altough what in reality is happening is that fiber is working as a laxative, making us fiber dependent and aggravating the condition even more. He calls this latent constipation. In young people the condition might pass undetected, they are still experiencing seemingly normal bowel movements, but as you get older, or if you have any other digestive issues the condition will start showing its true face, latent constipation eventually gives in and become IBS, Crohn's disease, and on and on, a number of afflictions. This also explains why most people become constipated when transitioning to a low carb diet, or simply low fiber diet, we're simply feeling the withdrawal symptoms of a laxative - fiber. I'm getting to the part of the book where he explains how to transition safely.

He also mentions how regular use of muscle relaxants inhibits the proper functioning of peristaltic movements which are crucial for a normal bowel movement. This makes me think of the use of too much magnesium on a regular basis. By too much, I mean enough for us to feel its effects on our bowel movements. So what I'm thinking right now is that magnesium (amongst similar supplements) for bowel movement purposes once in a while can be very helpful and should be used, however, on a long term it may be very detrimental. It is probably best to replace good bacteria and eliminate the possibility of dysbacteriosis (good bacteria are vital to produce stools and keep its moisture) and address all other nutritional factors (less fiber and more meat and fat as advised be author, and as we're pretty much doing here, although our concern is more focused in eliminating carbs, not necessarily fiber). This way we are maintaining integrity of peristaltic function.

Just some things I've been thinking about lately.

He really seems to be on to something osit, I began to find an explanation for many of my intestinal disorders in his book. If he is right, you could be suffering from fiber withdrawal, and that's what's making you constipated. He says that it is common in this case to suffer from alternating episodes of diarrhea with constipation. On top of magnesium and probiotics maybe try taking potassium, in both "Fiber menace" and "Life without bread" the authors mention how you may suffer from a lack of potassium during the transition to a low car diet. The reason why potassium may be low in you is that potassium is apparently what helps keep stool's moisture, without potassium the feces harden up and become dry, which causes constipation.

Also, I have been suffering from IBS related intestinal disorders and over the past few days I achieved some good improvements. First, I increased the dose of probiotics. I was taking about 10billion live bacteria per day (divided in several capsules a couple of times a day) and that made absolutely no difference, then I upped the dose to 25billion and that made a difference, my bowel movements became more regular and with less straining. Then I upped it to 50 billion and that seemed to make a positive difference as well. I stopped probiotics because I wasn't sure of whether that was causing my bloating, but since there wasn't any difference I resumed taking them again and my bowels have been working better since. If it is true that our good bacteria have been wiped out due to carbs and fiber abuse, upping the dose of probiotics may help you as well? I could well be wrong, so if you do up the dose it is best to do gradually, and bear in mind that not all probiotics will work for everyone, some can even make one's symptoms worse.
L-Glutamin is also helpful as it helps in healing the intestinal walls, there may be some leaky gut issues, or even just a damaged wall. My reasoning for posting all of the above is that we may need to restore our intestinal flora and heal the gut.

Another thing that seems to be doing wonders for my bowels is a product mentioned by Psyche mentioned in that other thread called oxy cleanse. I have a similar product called oxy powder, and it has noticeably decreased my bloating. Even though bloating is not your problem, considering that this product helps with intestinal disorders in general it may help, or not, I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Redfox's words above are also very relevant, things will take a while to heal and stabilize, particularly if there were latent intestinal disorders of which we were previously not aware of.

Hope any of this helps.

Edit: Clarity

 

[Bluestar]

Wanting to give another example of a high protein/fat diet has a marked improvement regarding health.

In my late teens I got really sick and as a result had switched to a veg diet due the material available during the early eighties on it being the healthiest diet. Through my twenties I stuck with it and some of my symptoms got better while other ailments came up. When I met my husband at age 31, he took me to a restaurant in Key Largo, Florida and convinced me that I should try the best beef burger I would ever have. So I did and since have eaten an omnivore diet. Though had less meat/fats and basically stuck to a high carb/veg diet. In my mid forties I developed fibromyalgia and had to rethink diet.

With the assistance of the info here, many of the symptoms of fibro has disappeared. Since early this year with the recommendations here, I have cut carbs way down. I must admit I have had two or three slip ups and went off my diet and had to start over again. Depression And my body paid a heavy price with pain and suffering.

Anyway, I realized that I have a 'comfort food' program where I convince myself that when depressed I will feel better if I eat such and such. Then the program of 'guilt' sets in and I beat myself up over going off the diet. What a vicious circle. Building a life around food has been not only a social thing, but an emotional one as well. So back on a high fat/low carb diet with a few berries and one veg a day. I do eat some almonds and have found that I feel rather well these days. Though adjusting to the new diet has created some indigestion. Digestive enzymes helps. Also I feel taking a multivitamin every other day or so is working pretty well. Take daily fish oil, vit c, ALA/CoQ10, calcium-mag and vit D, plus a supplement for the blood that has iron in it.

We are so bombarded with so much disinformation it is mind boggling. I am so grateful and honor the work of the forum members and can not say enough how much lifesaving information is here. Thank you.

 

[Renaissance]

The results of the low carb, high saturated fat diet has been amazing to me. I was in a drugstore this week and put my arm in the blood pressure machine. I had a bunch of bacon for breakfast, and even smoked a cigarette before going into the store. It turned out my blood pressure is lower than it has been in 25 years. I am very excited about that as that was one of my big worries. So after ten years as a vegan where I did everything you were supposed to do to lower blood pressure with no results, I find this amazing.

That's pretty awesome. I'd love to see how a doctor responds to a patient having lower blood pressure after they reduced veggies and carbs, started eating lots of fats and started smoking!

 

[mcb]

We discussed Fiber Menace in this same topic back in early March, starting here, I think. I have been doing much better since I reduced my fiber intake. It has only been four months, though, and that is not quite enough time to undo 15 years of vegan/vegetarian/hi-fiber diet.

I still have problems with constipation, but the symptoms are much milder now, apparently due to the lack of all that excess fiber. I sometimes go several days between bowel movements, but the stools don't dry out and wreak havoc.

I am trying to figure out what the next step might be. I still experience intermittent gas, apparently from fermentation. The sensations are usually in my lower abdomen, although occasionally I have gas pain all through my GI tract. One problem, apparently, was that I was in the habit of eating too quickly and not chewing thoroughly. I am still working on that -- I have to pay attention or I will still do it, habitually. Another problem might be that I am eating too many veggies, and I am experimenting with reducing them a little more.

It has also occurred to me that my stomach or small intestine might not be operating efficiently, resulting in a large intestine bacterial "feeding frenzy" on food particles that come through undigested. Taking a larger dose of bacterial probiotic does seem to make it worse. I am thinking of trying a digestive enzyme supplement again, now that some of the other issues have settled down and it should be easier to tell if it makes a difference.

I have had "gut problems" all my life, apparently yet another aspect of autistic spectrum issues. This may not be something that responds to ordinary measures. I know I have seen references to recommendations that Dr. Sidney Baker made, but I can't seem to find them in Detoxification and Healing and I am not sure what keywords to search for here in the forum. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

[kenlee]

In short, stick with meat, fat and one/two root vegetables (sweat potatoes and carrots are good) until things settle, then reintroduce other vegetables/fruits etc as if doing the ultra-simple food tolerance testing. This is working for me so far.

Yes, this is working for me as well. I've been eating just meat with a small amount of vegetables for a month now and my energy level has increased along with a steady weight loss. My cravings for other foods like pasta, spaghetti, pizza, pastry, has decreased a LOT at the same time.

It was just the opposite before when I would 'diet' by eating less food, mainly just eating salads (gads!) but still eating bread and pasta even if it was in very small amounts. My cravings for all the breaded foods never lessened with that diet, my energy level never improved, it just got worse, and I still felt terrible physically.

Occasionally, I'll lose my discipline and eat some fruit, or drink too much fruit juice, and it seems that this triggers my desire for bread and sugar, almost instantly, so I've really going easy on the fruit and vegetables. A mango or papaya every once in a while, maybe some blueberries or a little blueberry juice but I can't take too much of that or all hell breaks loose! In fact I'm gonna disciple myself to eat no fruit for a while, with almost no vegetables and then eat a mango or some other fruit and see what happens.

At the moment I have not fully correlated my eating too much fruit with my feeling bad (body aches, stomach troubles, arthritic feeling in my joints, brain fog, etc.), other variables may be involved, but it sure seems that sugar products and too many vegetables are a major contributing factor in all this.

Also, I recently got a cyst cut that was causing a skin infection and the doctor was very surprised at how quickly it healed (although I'm still taking antibiotics and will finish the prescription in a couple days). But I think my eating mostly meat protein/animal fats prior to this was a big factor in the wound healing so quickly.

Its hard to explain how I feel after eating meat. My energy level increases but I can feel the energy at a very deep visceral/ instinctive level. It's like a total body feel of energy, going on very deep and into the internal organs, even into the bones and it's constant. There's a total body thing/feeling going on there, compared to the superficial diets, kinda like the difference between how long a thin flat two dimensional plate of metal and a 3 D solid piece of steel would compare with the retaining of heat energy. It's not at all like the superficial energy I feel after drinking coffee or dieting by eating salads and/or eating less foods or not eating at all.

 

[Laura]

I take magnesium and pro-biotics regularly and drink about 6 glasses of water daily, sometimes more since it is hotter now.

You don't need the probiotics - people only need that stuff after antibiotics, and if you eat a lot of carbs and veggies. They can make you constipated otherwise.

Its been a total of about 5 weeks of having this, with the first 2 weeks being too much meat/protein and now that is corrected, these last 3 weeks being more fat and a lot less carbs.
I am having some fruit here and there, but not daily, and my carbs are about 70g daily.

If you are having fruit, that could be causing the alternating diarrhea. Probably best to leave that off completely for awhile.

Are you taking the enzymes and ox bile and maybe the hydrochloric acid tablets?

Forgot to mention that I walk at least 30 minutes daily, hike once a week and do yoga stretches every other day. Sleep has not been good since I am under stress re not finding jobs yet and money running low. But even when there was more money, I had the constipation problem which seems to coincide with the lessening of carbs.
Thanks in advance!

You are obviously not getting enough fat. That's the only thing I can think of. And you really have to go strict for an extended period with no fruit or probiotics or whatever AT ALL to get the metabolic shift to kick in. Try eating some thin slices of ham spread with butter and rolled up a few times per day. Sardines in olive oil. Fatty ribs. And take the digestive aids. If you don't clear up doing that for a couple weeks, then maybe your system is one that won't accommodate the change?

 

[Gertrudes]

I am trying to figure out what the next step might be. I still experience intermittent gas, apparently from fermentation. The sensations are usually in my lower abdomen, although occasionally I have gas pain all through my GI tract. One problem, apparently, was that I was in the habit of eating too quickly and not chewing thoroughly. I am still working on that -- I have to pay attention or I will still do it, habitually. Another problem might be that I am eating too many veggies, and I am experimenting with reducing them a little more.

I can relate to this. After having eliminated gluten and dairy all gas cramps disappeared, literally in the blink of an eye, but since having become bloated after starting the candida my gut has been complaining. I also think that this might be related to vegetables, I'm finishing what's left in my fridge of vegetables and then will do a couple of days on a all meat diet to see how it goes.
Another thing that causes me pain is if my clothes are not wide enough in the waist. If my trousers/skirts are too tight I can be sure that I'm up for another episode of pain. Just throwing it out a this could be another possibility for you Megan.

I have had "gut problems" all my life, apparently yet another aspect of autistic spectrum issues. This may not be something that responds to ordinary measures. I know I have seen references to recommendations that Dr. Sidney Baker made, but I can't seem to find them in Detoxification and Healing and I am not sure what keywords to search for here in the forum. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

I don't remember Sidney Baker's take on autism, but I do remember that Dr. Hyman spoke a lot about it in the Ultra Mind solution, and how gut problems were indeed so related to autism.

 

[Laura]

I can relate to this. After having eliminated gluten and dairy all gas cramps disappeared, literally in the blink of an eye, but since having become bloated after starting the candida my gut has been complaining. I also think that this might be related to vegetables, I'm finishing what's left in my fridge of vegetables and then will do a couple of days on a all meat diet to see how it goes.

Am I understanding you correctly, that you are eating veggies as an "anti-candida" thing?

As Lierre Keith writes in "The Vegetarian Myth"

There are essential amino acids, the so-called building blocks of protein. They're essential because humans can't make them; we can only eat them. Likewise, there are essential fatty acids— fats—which, despite being vilified, can only be ingested, not made.
And carbohydrates? There is no such thing as a necessary carbohydrate.

What's the difference between complex carbohydrates and sugar? Despite the intense propaganda to declare the former "good" and the latter "bad," not much. "Many people are of the opinion that there are good and bad carbohydrates, when in actuality there are barely tolerable and awful sugars," write the Drs. Eades.37 Whether "complex" or "simple," all carbohydrates are sugars. The only difference is whether they are individual sugar molecules or a string of sugar molecules. Glucose is the simplest sugar, made of a single molecule. Sucrose, regular table sugar, is made of two molecules and is, hence, a disaccharide. There are three-molecule trisaccharides. Sugars with more molecules are called polysaccharides. These include grains, beans, and potatoes.

That is to say, you have been FEEDING the candida.

Yes, I know, we all thought that advice given from "alternative health sources" about anti-candida diets and all that was gold, but apparently it is all lead with paint on it.

Candida is gone completely in the gut after about a week on all meat and fat. Probably within a month or less, it is completely gone from the entire body. And no herbals or drugs need to be taken. You just do NOT feed the stuff! It dies. You stop having gas. You stop bloating. Pounds of bacteria that were living in your stomach as a result of veggie and fiber fermentation are excreted from the body and your feces even stops having much odor to it.

But only if you are really strict about carbs... and veggies are carbs.

 

[SolarMother]

RedFox, Gertrudes and Laura--It looks like I need digestive aids/enzymes, ox bile and hydrochloric acid tablets and magnesium malate instead of citrate-- since our finances are low at the moment, do I really need these or can just high fat meat do the trick, cutting out fruit and veggies completely? Or, if I had to choose one supplement which I can afford, which should it be? It does look like, according to what Gertrudes quote stated, that too much magnesium is detrimental, so perhaps I should rule that out for a time.

I have been able to get pork ribs, ham, bacon, duck, lamb and pork belly fat (which I made chicarrones out of) & sardines bought awhile ago --these are the best high fat meats I can find and I have some high fat t-bone steaks I need to use up, but beef is not my best meat.
So I will lay off all fruit (and fruit juice) and no more green salads with my meat for lunch but yams and carrots are ok, it sounds like--also avacados.
Is Xylitol/coconut oil/cocoa powder made into the mousse ok? :/
I did not know that pro-biotics were only for after taking anti-biotics--I got some after reading your same post on another thread, Gertrudes. But you are saying it doesn't cause constipation in you. Sounds like I better lay off them and see what happens.
Very helpful, thank you all. We'll see how things are in 2 weeks. According to Laura, after going on nothing but high fat meat, none of us should ever be testing veggies and fruits again?!

 

[Gertrudes]

Am I understanding you correctly, that you are eating veggies as an "anti-candida" thing?

Oh gosh no, far from that, sorry if I worried you there for a moment :) What I meant was that the small amount of vegetables I still consume is irritating a gut that's been irritated by anti fungals. My diet is meat and fat based and I have a small portion of veggies on the side. As in, REALLY small. I also stopped having avocado, nuts or coconut as I used to eat occasionally as a snack. I snack on meat. The only reason why I am not eating 100% meat at the moment is because I had a fridge full of veggies as I usually stockpile for a month. Fortunately that's finishing, I'm looking forward to having a few days of 0 vegetables to see what happens.

I began to cut down my veggie intake since having started the candida diet as I was worried about the possibility of carbs feeding my candida. But that was still not as low as it is now, only after the thread on Life without Bread did I begin to seriously cut on all and anything that not meat and fat. Initially I felt very tired, then my energy picked up and I've been feeling great ever since. Except for my bloated abdomen. Still, bloating has significantly decreased since I stopped taking anti fungals a couple of days ago and started on oxy cleanse. A relief!!

Candida is gone completely in the gut after about a week on all meat and fat. Probably within a month or less, it is completely gone from the entire body. And no herbals or drugs need to be taken. You just do NOT feed the stuff! It dies. You stop having gas. You stop bloating. Pounds of bacteria that were living in your stomach as a result of veggie and fiber fermentation are excreted from the body and your feces even stops having much odor to it.

Yes, I think it was actually the herbals that messed up my gut. If I had known better I would have just gone straight into a 100% meat/fat diet... Oh well, a lesson learned.