The Vegetarian Myth

Nicolas said:
SolarMother said:
After re-starting magnesium, I'm back to the diarrhea. I will play with the amounts of mag, and hope to get the stools at the right consistency. Eating plenty of fat and fatty meat. Maybe we cut our carbs out too fast and could be having yams, carrots and green beans more often--every other day instead of 2 times a week.

It seems to me you should keep your carb intake steady below 50-70 grams per day. Sounds like you are trying to average out during the week which could throw your body in and out of ketosis like a yo yo.

I didn't explain very well. Our carb intake is well below 50 per day, but some days no carbs.
Some days I have yams with fatty meat (one meal during the day), one day last week I had one meal with carrots, with the meat. Many days in the week, no carbs at all. Are you saying that I should be having carbs daily (less than 50g) or not at all?
 
SolarMother said:
Nicolas said:
SolarMother said:
After re-starting magnesium, I'm back to the diarrhea. I will play with the amounts of mag, and hope to get the stools at the right consistency. Eating plenty of fat and fatty meat. Maybe we cut our carbs out too fast and could be having yams, carrots and green beans more often--every other day instead of 2 times a week.

It seems to me you should keep your carb intake steady below 50-70 grams per day. Sounds like you are trying to average out during the week which could throw your body in and out of ketosis like a yo yo.

I didn't explain very well. Our carb intake is well below 50 per day, but some days no carbs.
Some days I have yams with fatty meat (one meal during the day), one day last week I had one meal with carrots, with the meat. Many days in the week, no carbs at all. Are you saying that I should be having carbs daily (less than 50g) or not at all?

Ah, then I didn't understand. Seemed like some days you had low carbs and some days you ate more carbs (example: 10g one day, 90g 2nd day, 10g 3rd day, 90g 4th so average is 50g per day).

I have been doing well with 50-60g carbs per day spread out evenly with my three meals. It took about three weeks for my stools to normalize (alternated from very soft to constipation during those three weeks). Not sure if this regime will help you, just a thought.
 
What was your eating pattern before? I think a lot of people would say they eat until they are full and then are hungry again a few hours later.
At which time they eat again.


Well, I have never eaten breakfast, most days no lunch either if I am home alone.

I would only eat when I really felt I had to eat something, usually around 4-5 in the afternoon when I made dinner for the kids.

This would be a fairly large meal and I wouldn`t get hungry or eat again until maybe 11 at night and that would consist of some junk food thing like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, a hunk of cheese and some chips maybe, eaten while either reading or watching TV.

Getting off the gluten,dairy, peanut butter and jelly etc, made a huge difference in the way I felt but I still wasn`t really getting hungry like I have been since I started on the mostly meat diet.

It seems as though I digest meat rapidly, and actually "feeling" hunger is something I`m not use to. I think feeling hunger is probably a good sign though and would mean that I am detoxing fairly well and that my digestive system is waking up and starting to work properly again.
 
Sometimes I get a serious craving for beans cooked in the crock pot. We soak them 8-12 hours, then cook them another 6-8 hours, depending on the bean...until they're mushy.

While I was reading the book, I realized the beans are sorta like the "tripe" I would find in my food's stomach if I was eating wild ...just like the recommended diet for my dog :-)

It also appears a lot of people have "stool" problems. I've noticed that as long as I eat mostly meat, I don't have any difficulties on that end. I think the fat greases up the colon walls or something like that because you just sit down, relax, and a big, long loaf comes sliding on out...no real effort required. Back when I used to eat bread, that was NOT the case, in fact that how I knew it was bad for me...if something doesn't come out one end as easy as it went in the other, I shouldn't eat it.
 
Guardian said:
I think the fat greases up the colon walls or something like that because you just sit down, relax, and a big, long loaf comes sliding on out...no real effort required.

Guardian, sometimes you say something in a matter of fact way and I have to laugh out loud. This is one of them :lol:. But yeah I've noticed what you describe too.
 
3D Student said:
Guardian said:
I think the fat greases up the colon walls or something like that because you just sit down, relax, and a big, long loaf comes sliding on out...no real effort required.

Guardian, sometimes you say something in a matter of fact way and I have to laugh out loud. This is one of them :lol:. But yeah I've noticed what you describe too.
I agree! I know you were being serious, but still, that was hilarious! :lol:
 
SolarMother said:
Thank you DugDeep.
We've been using sea salt for years, but wondered about the iodized salt since it has iodine in it, and sea salt often does not. Didn't know the rest of the bad stuff about iodized salt. Read somewhere that Himalayan salt (pinkish) has iodine, and I think that was mentioned on the forum as well.

Ironically, all the iodine is taken out of salt with all the other minerals in the refining process and then is added back in to make it "iodized" :rolleyes:. As a general rule, anything coming from the sea is a good source of iodine, including fish, sea weed and sea salt (unrefined). The sea salt coming out of your average grocery store is usually refined. Like I said, if it's unrefined it will usually say so and it often has a greyish tinge instead of being pristine white (although there are exceptions to this. Unrefined sea salt from the Dead Sea is reportedly really white).
 
Guardian said:
...It also appears a lot of people have "stool" problems. I've noticed that as long as I eat mostly meat, I don't have any difficulties on that end...

If your gut bacteria are healthy, you shouldn't have trouble with a mostly-meat diet, at least not after adjusting to it. Fiber Menace goes into a lot of the yucky details. The idea that we need fiber to digest meat is nonsense. We need fiber to help digest plant material!

Some of the stool problems are probably coming from the enzyme balance issue described in the "tips" articles. I think I may also be feeling "die-off" effects from starving out something that doesn't belong there, something that feeds on plant residue. I am satisfied just to have something happen for once. Nothing else I have tried so far has made a difference with my gut, but it is feeling better now even with the constipation and diarrhea!

I don't necessarily want to stay on a mostly meat diet, but that will be the subject of further testing once I make it through this part. And who knows what will turn up in the reading in the mean time.
 
Meager1 said:
...It seems as though I digest meat rapidly, and actually "feeling" hunger is something I`m not use to. I think feeling hunger is probably a good sign though and would mean that I am detoxing fairly well and that my digestive system is waking up and starting to work properly again.

Perhaps. There may have been something peculiar going on for you to not feel hungry until later in the day. I have read something about that recently, but I can't recall it now -- perhaps someone else here can.

If you can bring your eating times earlier to match your energy needs it should help, unless there is something else you are dealing with that makes you not want to eat early. I have been eating around 7:30 AM and again at 1 PM or so, with little need to eat again after that. Eating meat late in the day can keep your digestion going long after you go to sleep, so eating earlier may help with sleep.

If you keep your carb intake low and you are hungry, just eat. It should be that simple. You can watch the scale if it makes you feel better, but I have been doing this for a couple of months now and I have lost a small amount of weight, not gained.
 
Meager1 said:
No, I was eating until I was full.
But then a few hours later my stomach was screaming for more!

I have never eaten this much, ever.
I feel ok, good actually except for the hunger pangs.

So glad that you brought this issue up and having read some of the replies has helped a lot. Having similar issues with weight loss (which I can not afford to lose) and feeling hungry. Usually I eat way more at one sitting then I used to before and after a few hours, the hunger sets in. So now I see I am not using enough fat.

Funny thing for me all my life I related to the old nursery rhyme 'Jack Sprat could eat no fat. His wife could eat no lean' I was Jack Sprat. Animal fat just turned my stomach. The consistency gets me. So lately I have been just eating it, well more like swallowing it. Cooking a lot of stew meat and pork rib meat for long periods of time. The fat is melted and goes down easier. Then I drink up the broth it is cooked in. The advice here is use "extra" fat like butter to build up the fat intake. Also fry bilini's in bacon fat. Though I only make them once in a while.

From my last post I was thinking that my carb intake was low when actually it is more then 50 grams. More like 75 to 100grams. Though having previously lived most of my life on carbs as primary food source, this is a good step. It is a juggling game for me because my programs are so firmly set.

Like today, I was in between meals and the hunger set in and I cut up some fresh strawberries( about three quarters of a cup) and added a half of a cup of walnuts. (Yes they were all from US farming processes, organic is very expensive. It is difficult to escape the system) I did find a grass fed beef farmer pretty close to where I live and will be visiting her soon. Her prices are very reasonable. Pork is a tough one. Will keep up the search.

Thanks to all for all the advice.
 
Re: The Vegetarian Stance

LQB said:
On animal slaughtering, here is an interesting post from Stonybrook Farm:

Recently an environmental science and photography student from NYU came out to the farm to work on a farm to table project. She is also a vegan. In addition to seeing my farm, we planned to visit my local slaughterhouse, and a local farm where I get the grain I feed to the pigs.

After a tour of the farm, we had about half an hour before it was time to leave for the slaughterhouse, so we went inside for a cup of coffee, during which I brought up the fact that she is a vegan, and questioned why she would choose a livestock farm as her farm to table project. Her answer was very reasonable and straightforward: if people are going to eat meat, the animals should be humanely raised and killed. As a vegan, she was willing to accept that most people would continue to eat meat; she just hoped that the animals wouldn’t come from factory farms and wouldn’t be killed in industrial slaughterhouses.

After our cup of coffee, we hopped into her car and started off for the slaughterhouse, which is about twenty minutes from my place. On the way, I reiterated that I thought she would have fairly limited access to the kill floor. My expectation was that she would get to stand in the doorway and take pictures from there.
However, much to my surprise, when we showed up and I introduced the student to the slaughterman running the kill floor, he immediately invited her in. First the student had to don a white coat and a hard hat, which she happily did. She, a vegan, was almost giddy with the excitement of being given access to the whole kill floor.

There were only two rules: 1) One is not allowed to take pictures of the USDA inspector (a USDA rule) and 2) She was not allowed to take pictures of the act of stunning the animal or slitting its throat (a slaughterhouse rule, promulgated not out of a feeling that they have anything to hide, but out of a justified paranoia of potentially being portrayed in a bad light).

As she stepped past the threshold of the door onto the kill floor, I said, “just let me know when you’ve had enough, and we’ll go over to the cutting room.” In order to keep the kill floor from getting crowded, I hung out in the doorway and watched from there.

For the next half hour or so, the photography student poured over the kill floor, snapping photos of everything, only pausing when the slaugtherman brought a new pig onto the floor to kill. But, rather than turn away for the killing, since she couldn’t photograph it anyway, she watched, intently, as the slaughterman placed the captive bolt gun against the pigs forehead and activated it.

BANG! about as loud as a cap gun, and the pig dropped like a stone each time. Then she watched just as intently as the slaughterman put down the captive bolt gun and picked up his knife, which he deftly and expertly plunged into the pig causing the blood to gush out in a huge stream. A moment later, which is why you have to act fast when killing pigs, the pig’s death throes started, which, compared to other animals, is very violent. The pig, unconscious from the blow of the captive bolt gun, and quickly dying and then already dead, thrashes around like mad. It is in fact the most difficult part of watching a pig killed because it is so easy to imagine that the pig is thrashing around because it is in pain (and, I grant the possibility, though remote, that we do not properly understand the physiology of death and the pig is in pain, in which case what we are doing is very much an ethical transgression). Nevertheless, as soon as the slaughterman pulled the knife out of the pig and stepped away, the student rushed in to start snapping photos again.

She took pictures of everything: of the moments immediately following the kill, of the pig being hoisted up by a hind leg to finish bleeding out and then be hosed off, of the pig being skinned, of the pig’s head being cut off, of the pig being disemboweled, of the pig being split in half with a bone saw, and finally of the pig halves being run down the rail to the cooler.

The whole time, too, she was aware that these were my pigs that were being killed. Not the very pigs that she had just seen alive and well on my farm, but the same pigs, nonetheless. They were not abstract pigs. They had faces and attitudes and personalities. They had lives that she had witnessed and documented just before seeing them killed.

I thought she would never tire of the kill floor, and I think she might not have. It seemed that everything attracted her. When not much was going on, she pointed her camera down at the floor and snapped pictures of spatters of blood and bits of skin and fat, the detritus of death.
Every now and then, however, she would look at me, and say, “just a few more minutes.” Until finally, she walked over to me and said, “OK. I’m ready.”
From there we moved on to the cutting room, where for our safety, we had to stand behind the cutting table, between it and the wall. There is a cinder block on the floor, the primary purpose of which is to put the middle leg of the table on at the end of the day after it has been scrubbed clean and hosed off to drain, but it also makes an excellent perch from which to take photographs.

The cutting room is a very different place than the kill floor. Everything is pretty familiar. As the carcasses come out of the cooler, they are quickly broken down into cuts that we are used to seeing in packages at the supermarket. Nevertheless, she snapped away, just as excitedly as she had on the kill floor.
After about a half an hour in the cutting room, we were ready to go. We said our thanks and left.

On the way back to my place we were pretty quiet, but at one point she said, “You know, it wasn’t that bad.”

“Yeah, I know what you mean,” I said. “My first time there, I was surprised at how easy it was to watch my animals be killed. After thinking about it, I realized that it is because the place, the whole place, everything about it, from the tile walls, to the hard hats, to the stainless steel, to the chains and pulleys of the hoists, to the attitudes of the people working on the floor, is designed and organized to do the job. Somehow that design and organization makes it so that on the kill floor, killing seems perfectly normal, natural, even.

You don’t even need to distance yourself from it. You can watch, you can stand there and say to yourself, okay, this is my pig, a pig that I cared for three times a day for five months, you can even recognize the pig — oh, look, that’s that pig that liked to have its belly scratched so much that it would topple over onto its side as soon as you started rubbing it — and then BANG! the pig drops like a stone and the wheels of the machine, yes, a killing machine, start rolling, so smoothly that there is no question whether it is right or wrong. From start to finish it is exactly as it should be. Simply put, it just is. You know what I mean?” I turned my head to look at her while she was driving.

“Yeah,” she said, nodding her head slowly, “I do. It wasn’t that bad,” she said again.

_http://stonybrookfarm.wordpress.com/


This may be emotional thinking but to reading this my reaction is :barf:
 
Re: The Vegetarian Stance

iloveyoghurt said:
LQB said:
On animal slaughtering, here is an interesting post from Stonybrook Farm:

This may be emotional thinking but to reading this my reaction is :barf:

It is emotional thinking to some extent. Have you read "The Vegetarian Myth" ? I got a lot sicker realizing what we are doing to the entire planet with agriculture. As the Cs say, if you can't stand the heat...
 
Ground pork makes a good burger if you ask the butcher to add extra fat into the grind.



Well that reminded me of the venison burger sitting in the freezer.

The boys added a lot of pork and fat when they processed the last deer because venison is pretty dry otherwise, but dry was the way we were used to eating it, and how I liked it, so to my thinking they had ruined it.. and it has stayed in the freezer uneaten since.

I guess it`s time to start eating that too and maybe get over my fear of fat and heart disease which I admit was what I had immediately thought of, when they put all that fat in the burger!

I cooked some of the bacon yesterday and then cooked the pork chops in the grease and the chops were really good that way. Something I would have shuddered over not to long ago.

We ate the bacon with the chops too and neither of us were hungry again right away like with the leaner meat, so the fat is key there. I also bought a pound of unsalted butter yesterday and plan to make some ghee today from that, just to try it.
 
Meager1 said:
I guess it`s time to start eating that too and maybe get over my fear of fat and heart disease which I admit was what I had immediately thought of, when they put all that fat in the burger!

This is why it is important to do the reading associated with dietary changes. You really need to have accurate knowledge to get over that programmed "fear of fat." Though it has been said before, I'll say it again: carbs and the related insulin levels are what are actually implicated in coronary and arterial diseases. The list of disorders that implicate carbs as the cause is longer than you might imagine. In fact, it could be said that, due to some very flawed studies and outright cooking of the data, all the things that are blamed on fat are actually caused by carbs. So, do the reading!!!

Meager1 said:
I cooked some of the bacon yesterday and then cooked the pork chops in the grease and the chops were really good that way. Something I would have shuddered over not to long ago.

Amazing what programming does to us, eh? It's also really odd, when you think about it, that those of us who are so knowledgeable in the fields of conspiracies and KNOW what the PTB are up to in hundreds of ways, have never really thought about the fact that all the health info they give and propagate must also be equally corrupted.

Meager1 said:
We ate the bacon with the chops too and neither of us were hungry again right away like with the leaner meat, so the fat is key there. I also bought a pound of unsalted butter yesterday and plan to make some ghee today from that, just to try it.

Any particular reason why you bought unsalted butter to make the ghee? You need to increase your salt intake overall, so why deprive yourself of one source?

Also, you very much need to be eating meat and fat in the morning, before 9 a.m. The eating habits you described sound suspiciously like adrenal fatigue. Not being hungry in the morning is characteristic of that condition. You need to help your adrenals to rest by sleeping in total darkness, getting up and eating meat and fats in the mornings.
 
Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Laura said:
iloveyoghurt said:
LQB said:
On animal slaughtering, here is an interesting post from Stonybrook Farm:

This may be emotional thinking but to reading this my reaction is :barf:

It is emotional thinking to some extent. Have you read "The Vegetarian Myth" ? I got a lot sicker realizing what we are doing to the entire planet with agriculture. As the Cs say, if you can't stand the heat...

I agree here with Laura. It's the amount of damage to the eco-systems divine balance that agriculture destroys that hurts me. There is or I should say was a 5 acre plot near my house that was a thriving forest. Old oak trees and saw palms. The area was thick with life. Just last week I passed by it and it was all gone. They put in a farm. My heart ached when I saw it. It was like a war zone. Total destruction!
 

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