The Vegetarian Myth

[nicklebleu]

Re: Consuming consciousness - I am stuck

Hi Vic,

Welcome to the forum!

Just want to chime in and add my two cents ...

First I agree that here is one insurmountable fact: If you shun animal meat your body won't run in an optimal fashion. To me (now) this is an obvious and objective fact - having gyrated with my diet more and more towards this over the last few years. I feel much, much better, have lost weight, have normalized my blood pressure etc.

Then there is the spiritual dimension, which of course is much trickier. Many accept the health benefits, but still reject eating animals and preferring to sacrifice their own health "for the greater good", kind of not to incur karmic debt etc. Previous posts in this thread have mentioned the Cs and other spiritual explanations one may or may not follow.

For me there was one explanation that made sense, that I'd like to share, maybe it helps with your conundrum: Once you have studied our existence for a while you will - in my opinion invariable, if you are objective - come to the realization, that we are property, cattle in a pen, animals raised for the benefit of feeding others. We are food. This is a horrible realization! But at the same time you will also gradually realize that it is a necessary condition, a barrier, an obstacle in your path that will force you to make choices and give you an opportunity for growth.

And in a sense it probably is the same with animals, just removed by a density ...

To sum it up - it's the cycle we are in, and to ignore it, is to ignore reality and objectivity and to perpetuate the merry-go-round that we have been trapped in since time immemorial ...

And as others have already mentioned, this is no endorsement of factory farming and animal husbandry!

 

[Deleted member 8431]

Re: Consuming consciousness - I am stuck

This is a very interesting thread.

Hi Vic,

I cannot add much more to what has been said. I can only say that the life on one relies on the death of others - this is the Truth as far as we are concerned.

Just keep in mind that no matter what, agriculture is killing more animals/species that cattle raising alone - including humans of course.

So considering that, what should we eat? I think that the answer lies in science. The fact is that we NEED to eat animal products to get ALL the nutrients that we need. A vegetarian diet lacks essential nutrients (such as quality protein, vitamin A and omega 3's) and that veggies (grains, vegetables and legumes) load us with antinutrients (substances that interfere with the absorption on essential nutrients such as vitamins and minerals). More so, these antinutrients and other substances generate inflammation which has been shown to be associated with pretty much every known diseases.

So although I'd most likely prefer that no lifeforms were injured/killed for my own sustenance, the fact is that we are DESIGNED (genetically speaking) to eat animals. We need their protein, fat and even bones (which contain essential minerals). That's how we've evolved. By eating animals and cooking food.

So don't worry my friend, just keep looking at the evidence and you'll see for yourself.

Take care! :)

EDIT: Grammar

 

[patty2292]

Re: Consuming consciousness - I am stuck

Hello Vic :)

Foxx has taken the words right out of my mouth here!

I think another important thing to note here is that no one is endorsing factory farming. It's brutal torture that destroys animals, humans, and the planet. Healthy animals from healthy farms, however, are treated well, happy, improve the soil, and buying their meat takes money out of the hands of Monsanto and other mega corporations that are destroying the earth and putting it into the hands of generally honest local farmers and local economies, among other things.

We have to eat to live as we are, so I think the question becomes "how to do so while contributing as little as possible to the suffering and destruction of the planet?", which the evidence quite solidly points to being best done through buying meat from small and local farms.

And it seems that as Carlise previously stated, we are in an STS state and that means having to consume consciousness to survive and thrive to improve. So it seems that the higher up the conscious ladder our food comes from, the more energy and possibly consciousness we personally gain. So doing this in the most humane way possible is the most we can do for our part in this cycle, but also for the respect of others - like animals.

 

[Turgon]

Re: Consuming consciousness - I am stuck

Hello Vic :)

Foxx has taken the words right out of my mouth here!

I think another important thing to note here is that no one is endorsing factory farming. It's brutal torture that destroys animals, humans, and the planet. Healthy animals from healthy farms, however, are treated well, happy, improve the soil, and buying their meat takes money out of the hands of Monsanto and other mega corporations that are destroying the earth and putting it into the hands of generally honest local farmers and local economies, among other things.

We have to eat to live as we are, so I think the question becomes "how to do so while contributing as little as possible to the suffering and destruction of the planet?", which the evidence quite solidly points to being best done through buying meat from small and local farms.

And it seems that as Carlise previously stated, we are in an STS state and that means having to consume consciousness to survive and thrive to improve. So it seems that the higher up the conscious ladder our food comes from, the more energy and possibly consciousness we personally gain. So doing this in the most humane way possible is the most we can do for our part in this cycle, but also for the respect of others - like animals.

And maybe that play's a big part in why our paleo ancestors and even some of the more recent North American Native Tribes like the Inuit and Lakota adopted and maintained a lifestyle that was more nomadic and sparse, but in tune with the natural environment. Their main source of food came from hunting animals but they didn't hunt them to extinction or exhaustion or take up agricultural practices that stripped the land of vital ecosystems and make it barren for other forms of life except one specific kind to exist.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Consuming consciousness - I am stuck

Hi, Vic, and welcome to the forum.

I'll try to summarize some of the issues. As was noted, there's no way around the fact that we must consume other life to live in our current estate. There's the more obvious issues of health and optimal functioning as a human (well, obvious if one is open minded enough to actually look at the real data and even experiment). What is the optimal nutrition for humans is one question. But there's also the issue of what is the difference, objectively, of consuming one type of life to sustain our own lives compared to another type. From an objective point of view, could one say, well this life is worth more than that life?

See the problem with the subjectivity of this? From the point of view of all being connected and supporting the life system, one cannot objectively claim that some life can be taken for sustenance but in the case of other life it's just horrible to take, etc. Plants also sense danger and experience stress, etc. Plants are even more vulnerable in many ways than animals. They can't run or fight or hide to defend themselves from lifeforms that want to eat them.

So they engage in a kind of "chemical warfare" defense, especially when it comes to defending their seeds - their future generations. These defenses are in the form of anti-nutrients, lectins, inflammatory proteins, etc. If we could ask plants if they want to be eaten, we can wonder what their answer would be, right? Just because we don't perceive them to scream, for example, does it mean they're thrilled about the fact that they're eaten?

Some of the things the C's have said about these issues make sense to me, but I'm not 100% sure that these are completely verifiable from our point of view. You just have to weigh all the data and decide what's most probable. I think, and I'm pretty sure the C's have said this as well, that eating is much more about the body, although it certainly has spiritual implications as well, like anything else.

One that the C's have mentioned is that, besides giving us the optimal instrument to manifest and develop our consciousness, there's the problem of this subjective false belief that if you don't eat animals you are somehow more spiritually enlightened or evolved. If this is not objectively true, then it is actually DETRIMENTAL to spiritual development, right? Holding on to a false belief and even aggrandizing self with this false belief.

There's another thing that makes one think much deeper about this whole issue. As is explained in "The Vegetarian Myth," agriculture is actually ecocide. ALL life is annihilated on millions and millions of acres of land to plant monoculture crops. There's' vastly more death and suffering than there was during the periods of pre-agricultural hunter-gatherers. The hunter-gatherers took only what they needed from Mother Earth, didn't have much possessions to speak of, would consider ownership of the land as incomprehensible, etc. Hunter-gatherers were not only greatly healthier and happier than agricultural "civilization," but they actually took much less life to sustain their own, and kept their own populations very small.

Now, as of our current situation, we can't suddenly say let's go back to being hunter-gatherers. But the next best thing for now is to support pastured animal raising operations where the animals have a normal, happy, healthy life. These types of relatively small, local farmers actually care about their animals. This, makes a big difference to the animals' overall well being, not just physically, but beyond that. It's not ideal, but neither was hunting-gathering. That's the whole point, again, no matter how you cut it, we have to eat other life to sustain our own - no way of getting around that at this point in the cycle. Hope this has helped to look at the issues from a wider perspective and do look into the material provided here to make up your own mind. I agree that it could be looked at in a more "down to earth" way than whether this will make us more likely to achieve 4th Density STO candidacy - as again, that is certainly something to keep in mind, but more of a working hypothesis than something that can be verified like some of the other points raised.

On a lighter note, Nobody said why we shouldn't eat humans as having even higher consciousness. If you'd like to experiment with that, Nobody, let us know how that goes. Just kidding, of course. If you look at nature, there's a certain order of what eats what, but then again, in the case of severe famines, who knows what will happen.... Just something else to ponder.

 

[Vic]

Re: Consuming consciousness - I am stuck

I am stunned by the quality of responses to my post. Thank you.

I have read and seriously thought about everything you have all said in this thread. Here's where I am now:

I am reluctant to read any more 'scientific' studies into whether or not eating animal products is good or bad for human health. I spent years doing that. 'Facts' and 'findings' are presented from both sides in thousands of studies and books. Being aware of the secret agenda and the use of disinformation and programming, I can never rely on any of it as indisputable truth.

As for the psychological issues - yes, I am sure a major reason for my stance regarding animals is identification of my own suffering (either in this life or another one) with that of animals - but knowing that has no relevance to the issue at hand. Knowing that isn't a trigger for me to become a meat eater. And yes, there is an element of superiority involved. Not in the sense that has been mentioned - spiritual superiority. More in the fact that among most of my peers I am able to shun the temptation to pander to mere taste-buds, and am wise to the secret elite's plan to kill us all off with toxin-filled meat.

I mean the above ironically - with humour. I don't really think I am superior. Not consciously anyway :)

But, in the very first post, Carlisle gives it straight - 'we are STS so live with it' (my paraphrase) Others also pointed this out. I can be objective. I absolutely see that this is what matters - everything else is noise. The cycle is the cycle. I see this, and I also know I have the free will to choose how long it takes for me to circumnavigate it.

In all the programmes (religion, psychology,military, social, political) I have participated in over the years I always went in wholeheartedly. Fanatically in fact. That may be why the illusions never failed to become clear to me, and I got out. Now though I go into new territory with my eyes open - objectively. This is why I am taking the Cassiopaea project so seriously. The fact that Laura spent so much time testing not only what was channeled, but also monitoring her own 'agenda' in how she interpreted and responded to it, gives the whole thing validity. And of course the material itself - the knowledge - is so consistent throughout.

It all resonates with me.

It seems that for the sake of spiritual growth I might have to eat animals. If I do then as it stands at the moment I would be able to consume fish only. As for other animals the very thought of it makes me gag. I'll have to see how it goes.

Thank you again for the fantastic feedback.

I'll post an introduction asp as requested by Alada.

 

[Cyle]

Re: Consuming consciousness - I am stuck

Hello and Welcome! :)

---
Mod edit: Removed the standard forum welcome message that had been quoted here. As a general rule for all, it would be best to have that message used only within the newbies welcome section in response to introductions, thanks.

 

[HiThere]

Re: Consuming consciousness - I am stuck

Welcome Vic, and thank you for your thoughts and insights! :)

 

[paralleloscope]

Re: Consuming consciousness - I am stuck

There's a really good article and summary of the ketogenic diet on SOTT, which may whet your appetite ;) before digging in to the Big diet threads on the forum : http://www.sott.net/article/265069-The-Ketogenic-Diet-An-Overview

 

[ocean59]

Re: Consuming consciousness - I am stuck

Hi Vic, and welcome. :)

It took some digging, but I was finally able to find this thread which you may find useful. It is a discussion about respecting the lives of the animals which we eat (and other related topics). You have to read a ways down to get to the part I was remembering, but the entire conversation is worth reading imo.

 

[loreta]

Re: Consuming consciousness - I am stuck

Every day I eat meat and fat and I love animals and care for them and was vegetarian some years me too. But my health and the health of my husband is necessary to survive in this planet and what is more important is to understand why they wanted us vegetarians... Every day when I prepare my food I have always a big "thanks" to the animal who gave his life for me. It is a sort of little prayer I give to the Universe, in particular to the pig or cow that give me energy for my body and my soul. It took me some months to accept this situation and sometimes even now I feel sad. Reading about Paleo Diets and Keto diets help very much to understand why we have to eat meat and fat.

I respect people who are vegetarians. I don't even want to argue with them because myself was vegetarian and who I am to tell them what to eat or not. I try to give them some clues... but to not avail. What is important is to understand the program of food in our mind and specially in our culture. It is a fascinating program, the base of almost everything. And eating meat and fat help to this understanding. What is very interesting too is to see that the majority of carnivores are not aware of the why they eat meat...

 

[Vic]

Re: Consuming consciousness - I am stuck

Thank you everyone, for your help and feedback. I am halfway through The Vegetarian Myth thread, have followed some of the links you have provided me with, and will be following the links that I haven't looked at yet.

The main truth that has hit me from all the feedback is that acceptance of the fact that we are STS third density is the key to resolving my issue. In fact it has resolved my issue.

I just posted my intro. I should have done that before posting here, and I should really have started this thread under The Vegetarian Myth. So, unless a moderator tells me different, I'll hop over to the VM thread with an update.

Thanks to you all.

Vic

 

[Nobody]

Re: Consuming consciousness - I am stuck

On a lighter note, Nobody said why we shouldn't eat humans as having even higher consciousness. If you'd like to experiment with that, Nobody, let us know how that goes. Just kidding, of course. If you look at nature, there's a certain order of what eats what, but then again, in the case of severe famines, who knows what will happen.... Just something else to ponder.

Don't be afraid, it's only a thought-experiment...

Q: (L) Where did the Orientals come from?
A: Same as all others. Result of experimentation.

Q: (L) Did they originate on this planet? Are they native to this planet?
A: Both. Orientals reserved for souls most advanced; Aryans most aggressive; Negroes most naturally attuned to earth vibrational frequency. So are “native Americans”.

Should we eat the Japaneese? Or does consuming consciousness means something more? If I eat an oriental OP for dinner I rather don't consume much consciousness. By the way, some tribes used to eat flesh (mostly brains) of their enemies. Especially if theese enemies were great warriors. How do you differentiate animals in terms of consciousness? Does eating a cat feeds me more than eating a cow?

Damn, 'Nobody' is such a shitty nickname. I should have chosen 'Dr Lecter' ;D

 

[HiThere]

Re: Consuming consciousness - I am stuck

Should we eat the Japaneese? Or does consuming consciousness means something more?

I'm inclined to think so.

How do you differentiate animals in terms of consciousness? Does eating a cat feeds me more than eating a cow?

Physiologically it's been established that meat of herbivores is the most nourishing alternative for humans, as reflected by eating customs through history.

You seem to be cheerful about the alternative options. Is this matter of no real concern in your opinion, or am I reading your post wrong?

 

[Nobody]

Re: Consuming consciousness - I am stuck

You seem to be cheerful about the alternative options. Is this matter of no real concern in your opinion, or am I reading your post wrong?

I would never hurt a human being. But talking about consuming 'the highest consciousness possibe' eventually leads to the case of cannibalism. Aren't we also the body of the Mother Earth sacreficed for consumption by beings of higher consciousness?