Thiamine (Vitamin B1) - A common deficiency in disorders of energy metabolism, cardiovascular and nervous system dysfunction

The optimal form used was developed as a pharmaceutical in Japan, and is called tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide (TTFD). It is also known as "Lipothiamine" or "Allithiamine", and is produced by a company called "Cardiovascular Research". This is the form used at high doses for long periods of time to restart thiamine metabolism.

S-acyl derivatives
The Japanese investigators synthesized a whole series of thiamine derivatives where the prosthetic group was attached to the carbon atom (bottom right C on the thiazole ring). They are all so-called open ring derivatives but the prosthetic group has to be separated by an enzyme in the body for the thiazole ring to close. The best known of these is known as Benfotiamine and several papers have been published concerning its benefits in the treatment of neuropathy. It has also been published that it does not cross into the brain, whereas TTFD does and this seems to be the major difference between Benfotiamine and Lipothiamine. Benfotiamine, a synthetic S-acyl thiamine derivative, has different mechanisms of action and a different pharmacological profile than lipid-soluble thiamine disulfide derivatives. It is predictable that TTFD would be the best choice since it has beneficial effects both inside and outside the brain and it certainly needs to be explored and researched further as a very valuable therapeutic agent.

Thiamine Salts
Thiamine is found in health food stores as thiamine hydrochloride and thiamine mononitrate. These are known as “salts” of thiamine. Like dietary thiamine, they require a protein transporter to get the vitamin into the cell. Their absorption used to be thought to be extremely limited, but megadoses are effective in some situations. The absorption of salts is therefore inferior to that of the thiamine derivatives discussed above. They are all so-called “open ring (thiazole)” forms of thiamine and represent the most useful way of getting big doses of thiamine into the cell. The reader should be aware that when we talk about big doses of a vitamin, it is being used as a drug. Although they can be used for simple vitamin deficiency, their medical use goes far beyond that because they can be effective sometimes when thiamine absorption is genetically compromised.


I've been trying to find the TTFD version of thiamine but it doesn't seem to be sold in the UK or Europe. Do you know of any suppliers who sell it?

So far I've only found it in the US via eBay:


The above article says that mega doses may be effective, would 2500-3500mg of thiamine HCl do the trick? That's what I've been taking but I can't say I've seen much impact on my overall health so far :-(
 
I've been trying to find the TTFD version of thiamine but it doesn't seem to be sold in the UK or Europe. Do you know of any suppliers who sell it?

So far I've only found it in the US via eBay:


The above article says that mega doses may be effective, would 2500-3500mg of thiamine HCl do the trick? That's what I've been taking but I can't say I've seen much impact on my overall health so far :-(

Thiamine HCL has poor bioavailability, especially if the gut is not working efficiently. Ecological formulas or Cardiovascular research are the only companies I know of, and ebay is the only source in the UK. I am thinking about becoming a supplier in the UK though, but I don't have enough money behind me at the moment to do that.

Furthermore, thiamine is not always going to be low in everyone, so it may be that you don't need it (hence why you are not seeing benefit). It is difficult to say without a full picture, or some testing.
 
Thiamine HCL has poor bioavailability, especially if the gut is not working efficiently. Ecological formulas or Cardiovascular research are the only companies I know of, and ebay is the only source in the UK. I am thinking about becoming a supplier in the UK though, but I don't have enough money behind me at the moment to do that.

Furthermore, thiamine is not always going to be low in everyone, so it may be that you don't need it (hence why you are not seeing benefit). It is difficult to say without a full picture, or some testing.

Thanks Keyhole, I found a UK eBay seller and I decided to try this version: Allithiamine (Vitamin B1) 50mg 60 caps - Ecological Formulas 696859130687 | eBay

Let's see if it helps. If I notice any benefits I'll come back and report. Leaving no stone unturned is definitely costly but so far I've had more success with it than failure :-)

In another thread I was advised to do some detox so in the meantime I'm also going to re-start DMSA and take activated charcoal.
 
That is the correct brand, yes.

In another thread I was advised to do some detox so in the meantime I'm also going to re-start DMSA and take activated charcoal.
Ah ok. What are you trying to detoxify?
 
It may be useful to read the following thread:

Here it is suggested that the study in mice that showed that benfotiamine intake does not reach the brain was too short in time. It seems that it does, but it needs a continuous intake of several months.
On the other hand there are doubts about how thiamine is related to cancer. Specifically, it seems that cancer is a great consumer of thiamine, and in fact could cause its exhaustion as observed in some of these patients.
Anyway, just more thoughts ...
 
Thank you so much for starting this thread Keyhole! I've ordered some allithiamine from iHerb in the states, am taking benfotiamine with magnesium in the meantime. I've experienced various levels of chronic fatigue most of my life as well as extreme fight/flight issues, attributed it more to trauma, but am convinced from reading your very informative posts that there definitely is a biological component to it. I've taken b-complex for years but didn't help too much. I felt extremely dizzy and weak after the first small dose of benfotiamine which tells me I am definitely deficient in thiamine. Really enjoyed the interview with Chandler Marrs as well! Thank you for all of your hard work and research.
 
Thank you so much for starting this thread Keyhole! I've ordered some allithiamine from iHerb in the states, am taking benfotiamine with magnesium in the meantime. I've experienced various levels of chronic fatigue most of my life as well as extreme fight/flight issues, attributed it more to trauma, but am convinced from reading your very informative posts that there definitely is a biological component to it. I've taken b-complex for years but didn't help too much. I felt extremely dizzy and weak after the first small dose of benfotiamine which tells me I am definitely deficient in thiamine. Really enjoyed the interview with Chandler Marrs as well! Thank you for all of your hard work and research.
Hi Bluefyre. I am seeing good results with thiamine in practice, although it can sometimes produce negative reactions at first. This is attributed to several things, such as a "kick-start" in metabolism, and also potentially oxalate dumping.

The alli-form is good, but can definitely pack a real punch for some people and cause them to feel worse temporarily. Stick at it and see how things go :)
 
I wanted to update on my thiamine adventure. I started two weeks ago, had one day of dizziness and exhaustion and from there on it has been this gradually increasing sense of well-being and lifting of underlying exhaustion. The first week I was on vacation, so no stress from deadlines so have waited to post with a week of work under my belt and am happy to report a great improvement. I gradually increased up to 400 mg of allithiamine with 100 mg of benfotiamine in the b complex. 400 mg resulted in loose bowels so have backed down to 300 mg and seem to have found the sweet spot and perhaps as my body/mitochondria catch up I can cut back further. I can't tell you how wonderful it is to have this sense of well-being instead of always trying to find the energy to do the things I need to do. I'm experiencing more mental alertness, sleeping in longer stretches and wake ready to face the day. Along with the information on iodine, this another big key for me in my healing journey. So a big thank you again for this information!
 
Reporting in on the allithiamine. I've been taking just 50mg for a month or so, to see how things went. It's been subtle, but the overall sense is that of being more solid and grounded in my body. Along with that the techniques mentioned in Healing Developmental Trauma started working really well.

Other things started happening after a month at this dose. One was a sense that my brain was hungry for more, so I upped the dose to 100mg for a week, and then 200mg and have been at that level for about 2 weeks now.
That's when things got rocky. On a hunch several months back I'd started taking 5HTP again, which helped with things like fatigue and aching muscles (depression without obvious symptoms). Well the allithiamine shifted something, and I began to feel the depression fully. My conclusion was that the depression had been shunted into the physical (creating psychosomatic symptoms), and away from the emotional. It took me a while to realise that was a good thing.
With the amount of things coming up to be processed (that apparently couldn't be processed before?), it's probably worth noting for those taking it.
Physically my lungs (which I use to have issues with as a kid) as well as my brain seem to be going through a lot of healing - which also has the side effect of needing a lot more sleep. So if you find that initially allithiamine gives you lots of energy, followed by becoming more tired over time, it's entirely possible that this is fatigue related to healing long standing issues. So more sleep may be required. Detox might also be a possibility.
It may be easy to think that with everything the supplement brings up you are going backwards, but this feel more like 'going through' rather than backwards.
That is subjective though, so proceed with caution.

Other changes include reduced chemical/food sensitivity, and reduction in how much my nervous system hyper-reacts to any/all stimulus (both internal and external). This includes an increased capacity to cope with change/learning/adaptation and stress in general (no hyper overwhelming reaction to it), as well as the understanding of how my own psychological defence mechanisms have shaped my behaviour in order to avoid such things.

Additional things I've been taking: a small daily dose of B2 for MTHFR stuff, a low dose of B6+zinc (apparently oxalates bind to zinc, and B6 doesn't work without B1), magnesium citrate (for magnesium + dealing with oxalates), and multi-B supplements at least once a week so they don't go out of balance. I take the 200mg of allithiamine in the morning on an empty stomach before food (seems more potent that way), and 200mg of benfotiamine in the afternoon.

One last point that may be relevant: I got a droplet of iodine on my hand today when adding my daily dose to water, and to my surprise the stain disappeared within an hour. I've been taking at least 12mg for over a year, with a year or so at 6mg before that.
Is the quick disappearance a reliable sign of iodine deficiency? If it is, then why would that be the case? If B1 is a lynchpin of many processes in the body, it might make sense that all other supplementation (including iodine) can only be helpful at a minor level without it.
Which reminded me of something that has been on my mind the last few weeks, that of an image that came up during a group EE meditation session about 4 years ago that always puzzled me. I was being shown a car engine (cars in dreams usually represent the body/self), and was pointed to two round slots at the top right of the engine bay. One was empty, missing a core engine component, the other only had half it's components. The impression I got was that 'once found, Laura/the group would find all failed health experiments now work'.
Taking that with a huge pinch of salt, maybe after some time loading up on B1 and healing, past experiments might now work/be worth revisiting? fwiw
 
Strangely, the eBay link does not work for me :-( but thanks for bringing it on.
I found the same brand on Amazon.co.uk for 35 pounds and YourHealthBasket has it for just 20! That's a difference now. But I couldn't find the TTFD thing anywhere either. Only Benfotiamin, HCL and Mononitrate.

Would you know, Keyhole, whether that mononitrate's bioavailability is good and if it's suitable?
 
Strangely, the eBay link does not work for me :-( but thanks for bringing it on.
I found the same brand on Amazon.co.uk for 35 pounds and YourHealthBasket has it for just 20! That's a difference now. But I couldn't find the TTFD thing anywhere either. Only Benfotiamin, HCL and Mononitrate.

Would you know, Keyhole, whether that mononitrate's bioavailability is good and if it's suitable?

Try this one. I haven't ordered yet will order next week. Thanks for the information Keyhole.
 
Strangely, the eBay link does not work for me :-( but thanks for bringing it on.
I found the same brand on Amazon.co.uk for 35 pounds and YourHealthBasket has it for just 20! That's a difference now. But I couldn't find the TTFD thing anywhere either. Only Benfotiamin, HCL and Mononitrate.

Would you know, Keyhole, whether that mononitrate's bioavailability is good and if it's suitable?
It is difficult to find in the UK unfortunately. I am currently working on something and there is a chance that, in the future, a purer source in a higher dose will become available on the market in the UK... but am not sure yet.

The mononitrate form is a waste of time. Very poor bioavailability. The next best thing woukd be higher dose thiamine HCL
 
Here is an interesting account from Lonsdale's own clinic back in 2012:

Three weeks on intravenous thiamine (vitamin B1)

The list of symptoms matches with my experience. Is Allithiamine something you can take just to see if it helps or is that inadvisable? I was about to buy the book but I hesitated at the price.
It is remarkably safe, so yes it can be experimented with. However it is recommended to take with a complex of other B vits, and some magnesium.
 
It is difficult to find in the UK unfortunately. I am currently working on something and there is a chance that, in the future, a purer source in a higher dose will become available on the market in the UK... but am not sure yet.

The mononitrate form is a waste of time. Very poor bioavailability. The next best thing woukd be higher dose thiamine HCL
Thank you for the clarification.

Try this one. I haven't ordered yet will order next week. Thanks for the information Keyhole.
That one is for 25 pounds, YHB has it for 20. Looks like the same product.
 
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