Thiamine (Vitamin B1) - A common deficiency in disorders of energy metabolism, cardiovascular and nervous system dysfunction

[monotonic]

The Cs have suggested salt water and that is not entirely unrelated to the Quinton water discussion. The author of one of the books on Iodine also has a book on salt:

Salt: Your Way to Health

If I wanted to understand the effects of salt water I would try that book first, but I haven't read it yet. My adoption of saltwater has been purely empirical. I was experiencing lightheadedness when standing up from a squat or coming up the stairs and I discovered Celtic salt (not Himalayan AKA rock salt) helped with this as well as improving my heat tolerance and ability to sweat. It was probably SOTT articles and other salt-related information at the time that gave me the idea to try it.

From some of my own research I suspected this was postural orthostatic tachycardic hypotension (surprisingly abbreviated POTS in the medical literature). It basically just means for some reason your body can't redistribute blood properly when you change posture. I came across a research article at the time (which I still cannot find to this day) which showed that this condition also reduced flow through the liver and lymph nodes as well as preventing sweating, which ultimately leads to a sort of sickly and lethargic person who may not realize that they overheat frequently. Now that I think about it maybe I can find the article again if I use salt as a keyword.

One thing I used to do when I was feeling sluggish and lethargic was I would take an uncomfortably large breath, hold it and then slowly release it. If I released it at a varying rate in exactly the right way it would stimulate a brief period of lightheadedness and then I felt better and it seemed to get my body past whatever difficulty it was having (but it didn't really seem to be very effective after some reflection). Over time I started to suspect it was making it worse though as I started actually fainting rather than just getting lightheaded. For all I know maybe I was just stimulating a crisis and then riding on the adrenaline it produced.

Since I started taking the salt, getting a better air conditioner and avoiding the things that aggravated it, it has become less of an issue. But then I got interested in vitamin B1 because it also addresses the same set of symptoms.

 

[Matthew]

That is really interesting, thank you monotonic. I shall look into this now that you have given me a way forward. I am so glad that you are getting to grips with your health issues .

 

[monotonic]

After doing some searches I remember now that increased sodium intake was recommended for POTS. The symptoms of POTS overlap with the symptoms of sodium deficiency. Although POTS itself is not purely a sodium deficiency, increased sodium intake is supposed to help (although now I'm wondering if the stated reasons for that are based on the same mythology behind the low-sodium craze). In any case I use the Celtic salt water because I've observed a real improvement, otherwise it's a huge hassle to throw it together in the morning and then wait to eat breakfast.

 

[NewEngland Seeker]

monotonic:

I was experiencing lightheadedness when standing up from a squat or coming up the stairs and I discovered Celtic salt (not Himalayan AKA rock salt) helped with this as well as improving my heat tolerance and ability to sweat.

I had the same symptoms several years ago and it took me a few years to realize I was too yen. I have cut out all sweets, alcohol and fruits. If it tastes sweet, it is sweet. I also increased the bitter and astringent foods (mostly herbal). Sweeter is weaker, bitter is better. Salt and all forms of minerals are of the same energy class of 1rst density, so I take a multi-mineral supplement which is the corner stone (pun intended) of stable energy system. Too much salt (NaCl) increases my blood pressure and rigidity of the body. Multi-minerals are a better way to balance out the yang energy and I only need a touch of salt to round out the total body mineral balance.



Even now after several years of yang type diet I’m still unable to eat any fruit but I can have a little wine or beer and a small serving of sweet pastries. It a thin line so as soon as I feel the light-headedness, I cut it all out for a few weeks to avoid further decay into the yin energy pattern.



Multi-minerals are more important to a healthy diet than any of the vitamins. I had experimented with high dose nutrition and after 40+ years of observation I now have reduced it down to only multi-mineral supplements. It is better to get the vitamins through a food source, so I add animal feed that are high in vitamins and mineral to my garden and the garden food more energized and biologically balanced. This method of soil vitamin supplementation has been an extraordinary improvement in the health benefits of the garden food.



I have been using non-medicated chicken feed with 18-20% protein, trace minerals for calves, blood meal and a high vitamin A-D feed additive. The trace minerals for calves is salty so sprinkle 1 cup per 25’ cu. Ft. area. I’ll cover the planting area a week before planting then weekly light feeding between the rows during the growing season then stop feeding during the harvest month. Light tilling after each application to mix into 2” of soil. It does mold and keep it tilled to avoid burning the plants. The soil keeps improving every year and the food is healthier and tastier.

I also add vegetable oil to the garden which enhances flavor, reduces heat stress and softens the soil.

 

[monotonic]

That does not match with my experience. If anything I've found citrus fruits and apples to be helpful when I'm dealing with lethargy among other things. I'm sure the vegetables are great and I always wondered about gardening with soil fortification.

Have you tried Allithiamine? It seems like you may benefit from it.

 

[NewEngland Seeker]

That does not match with my experience. If anything I've found citrus fruits and apples to be helpful when I'm dealing with lethargy among other things. I'm sure the vegetables are great and I always wondered about gardening with soil fortification.

Have you tried Allithiamine? It seems like you may benefit from it.

Thanks for the feedback. My comment was for the light-headedness, fatigue is a different issue of which I no longer use supplementation for. Sorry about not addressing the main issue. I apologize for coming across as a recommendation for you.

As far as Allithiamine, no I have not tried it nor see any need to. The nutritional enhancement of the soil is like converting regular vitamins into supper improved nutrients. All vitamins are chemically made and purified at least 4-5 times before sold for human consumption. This is the reason I add the less expensive animal vitamins to the soil and let nature convert the chemical vitamins into biologically alive vitamins. This method of eating from enhances soil has eliminated any need for any vitamin supplementation. The soil continues to improve each year, so the nutrient value keeps making quantum leaps. I consider it a health investment which benefits to the soil, plants, animals, insects, mushrooms, worms, etc.

 

[cope]

After reading about b1 deficiencies, i started using sulbutiamine, with magnesium citrate. Four months ago, i switched to ¨alcohol detox¨ plus magnesium malate, 3x daily, as i do have some liver damage. Detox has benfothiamine 25mg and b1 hcl 50mg. Slowly i got better. The muscle pain went away and did not come back, the gasping for air went down a lot, too. Nightly carbo cravings, my other big problem, went down and are now manageable. And i can keep drinking coffee! Supersmart has another mix in capsules: rehab, with 50mg benfothiamine, 120 for 40eu, but offers sometimes 2 for 1, this seems a better deal then detox-mix. They deliver really quickly.

 

[Gaby]

From Pediatric Pearls, Townsend Letter:

Pediatric Pearls (July 2019) Townsend Letter, Alternative Medicine Magazine

Pediatric Pearls by Michelle Perro, MD** Townsend Letter, the Examiner of Alternative Medicine alternative medicine magazine articles are written by researchers, health practitioners and patients.

www.townsendletter.com

Thiamine Reduces Mortality in Patients with Septic Shock

A retrospective cohort study was conducted on 123 patients with septic shock who received intravenous thiamine within 24 hours of hospital admission (median, 6.4 hours; range, 3.8-11 hours) and 246 matched controls who did not receive thiamine. Two-thirds of the patients received 500 mg of thiamine every eight hours for three days; the others received 100-400 mg (apparently every 8 hours for 3 days). Compared with no thiamine, thiamine treatment was associated with more rapid lactate clearance (which is a predictor of increased survival) and a significant 33.4% reduction in 28-day mortality.

Comment: Septic shock is a serious condition that has a mortality rate of 40-50%. Critically ill patients are frequently deficient in thiamine, and in these patients the presence of thiamine deficiency is associated with an increased risk of death. In the October 2017 issue of the Townsend Letter, I discussed the work of Dr. Paul Marik and coworkers, who administered vitamin C, hydrocortisone, and thiamine intravenously to 47 patients with septic shock. As compared with similar patients who did not receive this treatment, those given vitamin C, hydrocortisone, and thiamine had a 79% reduction in the mortality rate. Previous research had provided evidence that intravenous vitamin C by itself can reduce the death rate in patients with severe sepsis. The results of the present study suggest that thiamine was an important component of Marik's protocol, and that it may have enhanced the benefits of vitamin C.

Woolum JA, et al. Effect of thiamine administration on lactate clearance and mortality in patients with septic shock. Crit Care Med. 2018;46:1747-1752.

 

[nicklebleu]

Thiamine Reduces Mortality in Patients with Septic Shock

Unfortunately, retrospective studies are not very accurate. I remember dozens of things that in retrospective studies showed amazing results, but when prospective randomized studies were done subsequently, the effect disappeared. So I hope they’ll do these studies soon.

Having said that, given that thiamine is very innocuous, I definitely would like to have that given, if I had septic shock.

 

[nicklebleu]

Thiamine Reduces Mortality in Patients with Septic Shock

Unfortunately, retrospective studies are not very accurate. I remember dozens of things that in retrospective studies showed amazing results, but when prospective randomized studies were done subsequently, the effect disappeared. So I hope they’ll do these studies soon.

Having said that, given that thiamine is very innocuous, I definitely would like to have that given, if I had septic shock.

 

[Keyhole]

So, here is a testimonial from one of my client's auntie. She writes about how her 13-year old neice with unrelenting chronic fatigue is finally making significant improvements after we have had her megadosing allithiamine (900mg per day). The testimonial is on Chandler Marrs' website Hormones Matter:

HPV Vaccine Healing: A Story of Hope - Hormones Matter

Only weeks after the HPV vaccine, she was struggling to attend school with all the symptoms described above, plus new ones.

www.hormonesmatter.com

HPV Vaccine Healing: A Story of Hope



On 24 June 2019, eight months after her HPV vaccination, my 13 year old niece Rebecca was diagnosed with moderate Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS). This followed months of illness that had resulted in her being unable to attend school. Her symptoms at this time included crushing fatigue made worse by activity such as sitting up, talking or walking. Her fatigue was not relieved by rest. Indeed rest was impossible. She couldn’t sleep, and when she did, she woke frequently despite spending most of the time lying in bed in the dark. She was in pain, her muscles aching constantly and her abdomen tender and cramping. She felt sick and dizzy, had ‘brain fog’, headaches, word finding difficulties, a chronic cough, and chest pain. She was extremely emotional and in constant need of comfort. She did not want to eat, sometimes going days with only mouthfuls of food and craved only simple carbs such as pasta. She contracted shingles and was so ill that an ambulance was called.

Fortunately, by the time of her diagnosis, my sister (her mum) and I had begun to treat her with a nutrient cocktail that included high doses of thiamine and she was already showing signs of a positive response. We had started down this path after I had come across an article by Chandler Marrs on Hormones Matter back in April 2019, I ordered Drs. Lonsdale and Marrs’, Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia, and High Calorie Malnutrition and read it from cover to cover in a matter of days. I am not a medic. I read with Google by my side, gradually learning what words such as syncope and pseudohypoxia meant. The more I read, the more convinced I became that thiamine deficiency and dysautonomia described perfectly what was happening with Rebecca. I noted that alongside the many symptoms described that matched Rebecca’s, HPV vaccination was thought to be a factor in precipitating full blow thiamine deficiency. Indeed, as I read, it became clear that this CFS had not come out of the blue.
Childhood History of Unrecognized Thiamine Insufficiency
Rebecca had a history of weird and seemingly unconnected symptoms throughout her childhood. As a young child, she had episodes when her lips went blue, though no heart problems. She was a sweaty sleeper. She had always had word finding difficulties, and regular mild tummy aches. She had been ‘sensitive’ to stimulus such as noise, strong tastes and smells and even as a toddler would frequently withdraw to her bedroom for downtime. She had a diagnosis of childhood migraine at age 9 and a brain scan done at 10 years old revealed lots of ‘white matter lesions’, though the doctor was unable to interpret what this might mean other than they were common in migraineurs. She had never been the most energetic child despite coming from a sporty family and needed frequent rests and naps after school and at the weekend to manage the demands of her life. When she contracted viruses, she would take longer than her peers to recover from the same virus. Aged 10, she had episodes of blurred vision, unexplained by visits to the opticians or specialist doctors. Alongside all of these symptoms, she had also been diagnosed with vitiligo and had light therapy for 6 months at age 9 years old.
Enter the HPV Vaccine
Our current understanding is that this situation of low level puzzling symptoms may have continued, however in October 2018 she had her first and only dose of the HPV vaccine. This, we think, given an existing thiamine insufficiency, may have been enough of an insult to her system to precipitate the debilitating symptoms that medicine has labelled CFS. Only weeks after the HPV vaccine, she was struggling to attend school with all the symptoms described above. Frequent visits to the doctors as the symptoms progressed led to various prescriptions for antibiotics, anti-nausea drugs, pain killers, a triptan for migraine, and on diagnosis of the CFS, Rebecca was offered anti-depressants. The antibiotics made her tummy pain and discomfort worse. The anti-nausea drugs had no effect at all. The triptan made her nausea worse. Three days of full doses of nurofen, paracetamol and codeine did not work to take the pain away either. We chose not to take the consultant up on the idea of taking anti-depressants. Instead we did our research, found, what we believe was the root cause, and began thiamine therapy. Rebecca’s recovery began soon after.
Time Course of Recovery

• On 7 May 2019, Rebecca took her first 50mg dose of thiamine and we gradually increased the dose. Her symptoms did get worse initially, exactly like the refeeding syndrome or paradox described by Lonsdale and Marrs.
• On 16 May, my sister had a consultation with the naturopath Elliot Overton who suggested adjustments to the type and dose of thiamine.
• On 28 May, Rebecca started 150mg of allithiamine in three separate doses each day.
• On 29 May, one hour after her first 50mg dose of allithiamine, for the day Rebecca got out of bed briefly and ate. Over the next few weeks we noticed her mood and activity levels went up and down with the thiamine doses.
• On 28 June, we noted that Rebecca was more emotionally stable. She was more socially interested and her appetite and sleeping were improving.
• On 10 July, the thiamine dose now increased to 400mg across the day.
• The time to recover from activity decreased and at times she became more animated and talkative than ever.

Where We Are Now
It’s now September and the start of a new school year. Rebecca is taking 900mg of allithiamine a day. In August she managed to participate gently in two family breaks, including some beach time and short walks. A couple of weeks ago she spent some time playing energetically with her family in their pool, interspersed with rests. Her mum and I are so cheered to watch her have fun and laugh again. Rebecca reports that she no longer craves pasta and her mum notices that she sleeps earlier and wakes less frequently during the night. Rebecca still needs to rest and pace herself, and sometimes she will overdo it and need a day or two for recovery, but we are confident in that recovery now. Rebecca has this week returned to school part time.

When this stuff it used properly, it really can work miracles! I am seeing it more and more.

 

[Gaby]

So, here is a testimonial from one of my client's auntie. She writes about how her 13-year old neice with unrelenting chronic fatigue is finally making significant improvements after we have had her megadosing allithiamine (900mg per day)

That is a wonderful testimony! I hope more people, especially those who are more vulnerable, will learn more about this topic.

 

[monotonic]

This looks like a really good video on the rundown of symptoms from Thiamine deficiency. If I had watched this years ago I would have made the connection immediately. This is what I would share with others if I thought they may have a deficiency.

I find it weird that he advises Benfotiamine and then describes it with the benefits that are normally ascribed to Allithiamine. I wonder if this is a mistake or is he just comparing Benfotiamine to Thiamine mononitrate?

 

[Ruth]

Unfortunately, retrospective studies are not very accurate. I remember dozens of things that in retrospective studies showed amazing results, but when prospective randomized studies were done subsequently, the effect disappeared. So I hope they’ll do these studies soon.

Having said that, given that thiamine is very innocuous, I definitely would like to have that given, if I had septic shock.

If you had septic shock you would most likely be dying in ICU of organ failure. Having said that, Dr Paul Marik's protocol was discovered quite by accident. Their patient 'was going to die', no two ways about it. They had nothing to loose. The results were astonishing and completely surprising.

His protocol included thiamine in the regime and it was so overwhelmingly successful that at his facility it became unethical to withhold it. They almost had a 100% success rate. The protocol includes thiamine, but also vitamin C and hydrocortisone. These three things seemed to potentiate each other and end up functioning like some sort of metabolic resuscitation.

However, this protocol is very cheap, can't be patented, and will not make Pharma any money, so it's not going to be supported by them and because of this will most likely not get widespread support.

DISCUSSION: Dr Paul Marik's Sepsis/SIRS Protocol for ME/CFS? (Vit C / Hydrocortisone / Thiamine)

Dr Paul Marik (of Sentara Norfolk General Hospital) has recently developed a novel treatment protocol for life threatening sepsis. [Edit: full protocol] IV Vitamin C (1.5 gm every 6 hours for 4 days) Infused over 30 to 60 minutes and mixed in 100ml normal saline / D5W in water IV Thiamine...

forums.phoenixrising.me

 

[Yupo]

Interesting about Thiamine deficiency in wildlife: Zombie Alligators in Florida: