Trump era: Fascist dawn, or road to liberation?

[Laura]

Something happened to a portion of the liberals during the 8 years of Obama, what was it? so many where on their toes during the Bush years and against everything he stood for and watching closely. Maybe people where to wide awake and in need of a sleeping pill, enter Barack Obama with his soothing speech and manner . The neocon agenda moved behind closed doors, no longer in ones face and gave people a much needed rest and time to dream of other things. The New Age movement was going strong during all this time, lots of dreaming going on there, makes me consider what is behind that (I think we know for the most part). In some New Age circles, channelers portrayed Obama as an enlightened being doing his best to save us. Others where dreaming about human rights a lot, I guess. Then all of a sudden BAM! The alarm clock goes off and Trump is the new president! People stumble from their beds agitated and confused then become angry THIS IS NOT MY DREAM they scream! What the hell is going on here??? Who is this man ragging all around and making so much noise and changing things! But they are still dreaming, the scenery has changed and now they find themselves in a nightmare with Hitler.

A lot of these sleepy heads are very young and the dream is all they've known. I wonder how many people are actually involved in this insane acting out. The numbers may be lower then we think (I hope).

This is an excellent description of what happened. Obama was a spell-binder and it didn't matter how many times I pointed out that he was doing all the same stuff that Bush did, and even worse stuff, the liberals simply paid no attention. And while he was doing all the Bush/Neocon stuff, he salted it with a bunch of liberal stuff here and there to keep the liberals attention focused elsewhere.

To me, it is utterly amazing that so many people did NOT realize that Obama was just Bush and the gang in disguise.

And I think that now, a very real hope is born for millions of people. So this is a very dangerous moment because if Trump is stopped in a way or another, this people would not stay silent.

I agree. It does seem that the majority supports Trump, but the vocal minority is given amplification by the MSM.

 

[Windmill knight]

Stefan, I have to ask - have you actually read this thread? Have you read the relevant articles regarding Trump, the immigration ban, the so called Muslim ban on SOTT? I ask because you are regurgitating the arguments and data points we are reading in the MSM and seeing replayed on FB and Twitter, things I am now fed up with refuting

Yes, but I don't read msm. I've read the thread and it's mostly balanced which I liked but here's the finger pointing again, whoever may be in disagreement with your own personal opinion, he must be an msm libtard jumping up and down on Hillary's bandwagon. I wouldn't have liked it if you resort to the same kind of bullying and intimidating classics that the commies used to deploy against their own people - 'you are either with us, or else...' I wouldn't be offended had you deleted my post, it's your forum and rules, so I know. I am expressing my own opinion because, you know, I live in the real world. I don't sit in a house reading and analyzing stuff all day, I know what people want and I live close to the border with Mexico. I wish Trump good luck with the sanctuary cities, perhaps you don't live in one, but that's an assumption I just made. And probably you've never dealt with our local idiots with a badge and a gun. Another assumption of mine, so par me if I am wrong. I've seen much worse, I've lived through enough political promises and bs, I've participated in marches and demonstrations under communist regimes, I know what's it like to live in a dictatorship state, so just spare me this lecture what I've read and what not. I have watched closely and analyzed the financial crisis from 2006 to 2008 just so to understand how the financial barons work and operate. The truth is much uglier than what you've been told to believe. No no no, you gotta read between the lines and form your own conclusions. I've posted in stock market forums and I was bashed, of course, and even made the bold statements that the fed's interest rates will and should go down to zero...You know the feeling when people wave patriotically their flag under your nose - it never happened in the history of America, I was called conspiracy theorist and many other names. Back in 2008 I got so fed up with the lies and deception that I quit reading everything, turned the tv off and looked around myself. Got out the street and saw cars, cars, cars, cars, nobody was giving a flying ef of what was going on. There is no hope for this country, I thought to myself. Yes, that Wall Street. Somehow, for some reason, Trump never made it there but he was a real estate tycoon, just to get as close and as high as possible to the big boys. And perhaps his father never loved him (if he was ever loved by another human being, I'd leave that up to you to decide) so he developed narcissistic traits to outperform his father financially and intellectually, it's just so obvious. I had to laugh so hard when he nominated Jamie Dimon to be his secretary of treasury. I actually pictured Jamie answering to Donald Trump!!! Who's the nominee now, some hybrid of GS and Hollywood, nobody knows...something...I don't know what to tell you, man, it's hopeless anyway, I try to make it out there and do the best I can. We don't even need a president, this is ridiculous, it's an obsolete, outdated job anyway, they are laughing at us, puppets after puppets installed with ever lasting new hopes with ever lasting new problems, what do you expect? Yes, I got fed up!

Hey Flashgordonv, I can understand the frustration and I think we can all agree that what was once the "liberal left" has lost the plot as a whole and Trump is largely misrepresented. However, I think that Stefan made some valid points in his previous post and was expressing legitimate concerns about things Trump is doing. I didn't get the sense that he was coming from the same place as the MSM or Facebookers. Leaving Obama and Hillary's crimes aside, as well as cheap accusations of racism or fascism against Trump, I think it is important to make an effort to see Trump as objectively as possible, so I see no harm in putting those concerns on the table.

For both Stefan and Flash, I suspect there is probably more common ground between the two of you than you now think, so lets try to listen to each other carefully and stick to the rational and civil dialogue please.

 

[piliangie]

Common sense " Trump said....it has another meaning....with him.
After all we don't have to loose the perspective that above all this presidents and goverments ,there are the other beings the ones that rule and keep the world in this nonsense....

 

[Seppo Ilmarinen]

Something happened to a portion of the liberals during the 8 years of Obama, what was it? so many where on their toes during the Bush years and against everything he stood for and watching closely. Maybe people where to wide awake and in need of a sleeping pill, enter Barack Obama with his soothing speech and manner . The neocon agenda moved behind closed doors, no longer in ones face and gave people a much needed rest and time to dream of other things. The New Age movement was going strong during all this time, lots of dreaming going on there, makes me consider what is behind that (I think we know for the most part). In some New Age circles, channelers portrayed Obama as an enlightened being doing his best to save us. Others where dreaming about human rights a lot, I guess. Then all of a sudden BAM! The alarm clock goes off and Trump is the new president! People stumble from their beds agitated and confused then become angry THIS IS NOT MY DREAM they scream! What the hell is going on here??? Who is this man ragging all around and making so much noise and changing things! But they are still dreaming, the scenery has changed and now they find themselves in a nightmare with Hitler.

A lot of these sleepy heads are very young and the dream is all they've known. I wonder how many people are actually involved in this insane acting out. The numbers may be lower then we think (I hope).

This is an excellent description of what happened. Obama was a spell-binder and it didn't matter how many times I pointed out that he was doing all the same stuff that Bush did, and even worse stuff, the liberals simply paid no attention. And while he was doing all the Bush/Neocon stuff, he salted it with a bunch of liberal stuff here and there to keep the liberals attention focused elsewhere.

To me, it is utterly amazing that so many people did NOT realize that Obama was just Bush and the gang in disguise.

Yeah. Maybe what we're seeing now with these snowflakey-type-vehemently-reacting-people is great example of what happens, when you believe such a lies. Like said, in many ways 8 years of Obama was even worse than Bush years: the lies went deeper with bombing of Libya and Syria (among others), funding and arming terrorists, waging secret wars with drones, creating false flags in Europe and US, worsening living standards, reintroducing cold war, and so on. So many events that would have needed reaction by liberal/humanitarian types, yet they decided to stay asleep. Same time it became harder and harder for them to get on board with what's really going on; first you would have to accept your own ignorance, gullibility and participation as a blind bystander in all these crimes. So much easier to just take the blue pill and keep dreaming.

 

[mariowil7]

Is the Fifth Column scenario taking Shape?...

The following excerpt from this article thinks so:

Has Sally Yates been sabotaging Trump’s ‘travel ban’ Executive Order all along? _http://theduran.com/sally-yates-sabotaging-trumps-travel-ban-executive-order/

The LAWFARE reference: _https://www.lawfareblog.com/quick-thoughts-sally-yates-unpersuasive-statement

As anyone who is genuinely familiar with Roman history knows, the parallel Krugman is making between the fall of the Roman Republic and Russia’s alleged support for Donald Trump in the election is entirely false. The Roman Republic did not fall because Roman politicians looked to outsiders for help in their domestic political conflicts as Paul Krugman seems to imply. There was no case of any genuinely prominent Roman politician (not even Mark Antony) ever doing anything like that.

What caused the Roman Republic to fall was that a powerful but self-interested group of wealthy Senators abused constitutional mechanisms in order to preserve its power by blocking necessary reforms urged by politicians they branded “populists”. On occasion this group turned to assassination (as in the case of the Gracchi), or civil war, and in the case of Julius Caesar (the most famous Roman “populist”of them all) they did both. As a result they destroyed the Roman people’s faith in the Republic’s institutions and in its ability to govern properly.

I don’t think the situation in the US is – as yet – remotely as bad. However if Democrats like Sally Yates continue as they have been doing over the last few months it might one day even come to that.

POSTSCRIPT: Since writing the above I have seen the following article – posted by the estimable Luciana Bohne – by Jack Goldsmith, the Henry L. Shattuck Professor at Harvard Law School, co-founder of Lawfare, a Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, and co-chair of its Working Group on National Security, Technology, and Law, who makes essentially the same criticism of Sally Yates’s conduct that I do. If she felt she could not ask Department of Justice lawyers to defend the Executive Order in court for the reasons she says, then her proper course was to resign, not publicly campaign against it whilst sabotaging its enforcement.

A little bit of "food" to ponder...

Post Edit Added...

Here is the Lawfare conclusion:

Yates is obviously in an extraordinarily difficult position as Acting Attorney General for a President whose policy goals she does not share. She is clearly repulsed by the EO, and wants no part in its enforcement. (One of the many elements of poor governance by the Trump administration was to issue the controversial and poorly thought-through EO when Barack Obama’s Deputy Attorney General is serving as Acting Attorney General.) But if Yates feels this way, she should have resigned (though if Yates goes, there may be no statutory officer in DOJ who can approve FISA orders.) Instead, she wrote a letter that appears to depart sharply from the usual criteria that an Attorney General would apply in deciding whether to defend an EO in court. As such, the letter seems like an act of insubordination that invites the President to fire her. Which he did.

 

[BHelmet]

I wonder if the violent scene on Portland airport were real liberals or agents provocateurs?

 

[Nević Nenad]

What hapens now in USA is new only to Americans. It did happen already in lots of places, especially in eastern Europe. With that in mind Trump is not standing so bad at all, actually he is doing his job so far very good. The problem is the media, which he doesn't control, but his adversaries does. Trump needs to shut down the media, but as silently as it is possible. The idea to shut down cnn, for example, sounds really strange and impossible to Americans right now, because its so 'big', but remember that 'Trump as a president' was strange and impossible not so long ago. So, I think that Trump would be very stupid to play their game (he doesn't so far) and media and the evil empire will lose the momentum they have (and already are losing it). It just needs time and patience.

 

[Nević Nenad]

Actually Trump must do for America what Putin did for Russia. Its only that Putin had 12-13 years for that, Trump don't have that time.

 

[mkrnhr]

Scott Adam has an interesting observation that joins the different concerns expressed here, mainly about the mob mentality and the ego-driven self-righteousness display: _http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156540315831/be-careful-what-you-wish-for-especially-if-it-is

But lately I get the feeling that Trump’s critics have evolved from expecting Trump to be Hitler to preferring it. Obviously they don’t prefer it in a conscious way. But the alternative to Trump becoming Hitler is that they have to live out the rest of their lives as confirmed morons. No one wants to be a confirmed moron. And certainly not after announcing their Trump opinions in public and demonstrating in the streets. It would be a total embarrassment for the anti-Trumpers to learn that Trump is just trying to do a good job for America. It’s a threat to their egos. A big one.

and elsewhere

... I’m talking about ordinary people doing ordinary things to turn Trump into an actual Hitler. For example, if protesters start getting violent, you could expect forceful reactions eventually. And that makes Trump look more like Hitler. I can think of dozens of ways the protesters could cause the thing they are trying to prevent. In other words, they can wish it into reality even though it is the very thing they are protesting.

 

[luc]

Scott Adam has an interesting observation that joins the different concerns expressed here, mainly about the mob mentality and the ego-driven self-righteousness display: _http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156540315831/be-careful-what-you-wish-for-especially-if-it-is

But lately I get the feeling that Trump’s critics have evolved from expecting Trump to be Hitler to preferring it. Obviously they don’t prefer it in a conscious way. But the alternative to Trump becoming Hitler is that they have to live out the rest of their lives as confirmed morons. No one wants to be a confirmed moron. And certainly not after announcing their Trump opinions in public and demonstrating in the streets. It would be a total embarrassment for the anti-Trumpers to learn that Trump is just trying to do a good job for America. It’s a threat to their egos. A big one.

...

Interesting. And not only would they be confirmed morons if Trump doesn't turn out to be Hitler, they would have to face a HUGE pile of lies that they believe in - and realize the media are lying, the liberals are murderous criminals, and that they are actually way more stupid than their precious self-image makes them think they are etc. etc. It is a huge task, and for many of them, an impossible one. So indeed, they might unconsciously create a reality where Trump (or someone else) really becomes Hitler. I hope we can split off from their reality eventually...

 

[NormaRegula]

Scott Adam has an interesting observation that joins the different concerns expressed here, mainly about the mob mentality and the ego-driven self-righteousness display: _http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156540315831/be-careful-what-you-wish-for-especially-if-it-is

But lately I get the feeling that Trump’s critics have evolved from expecting Trump to be Hitler to preferring it. Obviously they don’t prefer it in a conscious way. But the alternative to Trump becoming Hitler is that they have to live out the rest of their lives as confirmed morons. No one wants to be a confirmed moron. And certainly not after announcing their Trump opinions in public and demonstrating in the streets. It would be a total embarrassment for the anti-Trumpers to learn that Trump is just trying to do a good job for America. It’s a threat to their egos. A big one.

and elsewhere

... I’m talking about ordinary people doing ordinary things to turn Trump into an actual Hitler. For example, if protesters start getting violent, you could expect forceful reactions eventually. And that makes Trump look more like Hitler. I can think of dozens of ways the protesters could cause the thing they are trying to prevent. In other words, they can wish it into reality even though it is the very thing they are protesting.

This part of Adam's blog on this subject is interesting too:

And this gets me to my point. When millions of Americans want the same thing, and they want it badly, the odds of it happening go way up. You can call it the power of positive thinking. It is also the principle behind affirmations. When humans focus on a desired future, events start to conspire to make it happen.

I've been dealing with anti-Trumpers on a daily basis through co-workers and at home. It's extremely stressful to deal with. Sometimes I literally become heated - just horribly hot - from the strain of keeping my mouth shut. The few times I attempted to diffuse a topic with some common sense I was looked at suspiciously and treated as if I were the crazy one. The conservatives I know tend to have more critical-thinking skills but have just about had it with the left's ranting insanity.

Have to wonder if the millions of Americans, both pro and anti-Trump, are actually wishing for the same thing together, but for different purposes. Does that make sense? The liberals I know cry Hitler and fascism daily until I'm numb to it. On the other hand, the conservatives I know are itching to get back at the liberals and lying MSM who they think are the true fascists that want a bloody civil war. The conservatives laugh at first, then say bring it on and relish the idea of shooting or locking-up SJWs and their kind.

Good chance a majority of American will get what they want and it won't be pretty.

 

[mkrnhr]

Interesting. And not only would they be confirmed morons if Trump doesn't turn out to be Hitler, they would have to face a HUGE pile of lies that they believe in - and realize the media are lying, the liberals are murderous criminals, and that they are actually way more stupid than their precious self-image makes them think they are etc. etc. It is a huge task, and for many of them, an impossible one. So indeed, they might unconsciously create a reality where Trump (or someone else) really becomes Hitler. I hope we can split off from their reality eventually...

Not only that, but there is also a psychological aspect to it. It is extremely hard for a normally constituted adult to recognize errors and to question former and actual beliefs (we've all been there now and then and know how devastating it is). Now imagine how hard it would be for a malformed (mentally, emotionally, and probably neurologically) snowflake who cannot even face the least annoyances of the outer reality without a meltdown and reversing into primal rage (and consequently violence, it could be coming). Facing their internal shadows, they would instantly turn into dust so the only survival mechanism would be to escape further into psychosis. There is no turning back. If this situation, from the viewpoint of mind engineering, has ever been constructed on purpose, it's the work of a stunningly genius evil mind.

 

[Ca.]

Trump Backlash Turns Mexicans Against Nafta (Video)
_https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-31/outraged-mexicans-to-trump-tear-up-nafta-we-re-sick-of-it-too
January 31, 2017, 11:00 AM GMT+1 January 31, 2017, 3:41 PM GMT+1

The Zocalo, a vast square in the heart of Mexico City, has been a gathering place since the days of the Spanish conquistadors. Walk through it today and you’ll encounter, as expected, intense hatred of Donald Trump.

But what you’ll also find is that Mexicans are just as furious at their own government for letting the U.S. president push their country around. What’s more, many proclaim to be fed up with Nafta. Trump’s pledge to rewrite the trade pact doesn’t go far enough for them. It should be scrapped entirely.

“We will be better off,” said Eduardo Avila, on a break from his job as a driver. He dug into the pocket of his jeans jacket to show off the lapel pin and ribbon he’d just bought, both emblazoned with a suddenly popular slogan: “United For Mexico. Buy Mexican Goods.”

Skipping Down:

None of that matters to Alejandro Sanchez, a vendor on the outskirts of the Zocalo. He welcomes what before Trump’s election was the unthinkable: an end to decades of friendship and economic cooperation with the U.S.

“They can raise the tallest wall in the world, in fact they should. They can keep their burgers and fast food, their junk culture,” he said, peering out from behind stacks of magazines, coloring books and cigarette packets. “I think most of us feel the same way -- this is an opportunity. We are such a big country that this will help us activate our domestic economy.”

Give Trump credit, he added. “This man did something right. He united us."

Link for full View:

Another Goldman Sachs Administration?
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/01/31/another-goldman-sachs-administration/
January 31, 2017 Paul Roger Craig
Nomi Prins says that based on the past history of Goldman Sachs executives in public service, President Trump’s appointment of Goldman Sachs alumni Steven Mnuchin and Gary Cohn means that the one percent of the one percent will continue to feast on the rest of us.
The Goldman Sachs Effect How a Bank Conquered Washington
By Nomi Prins

Irony isn’t a concept with which President Donald J. Trump is familiar. In his Inaugural Address, having nominated the wealthiest cabinet in American history, he proclaimed, “For too long, a small group in our nation’s capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have borne the cost. Washington flourished — but the people did not share in its wealth.” Under Trump, an even smaller group will flourish — in particular, a cadre of former Goldman Sachs executives. To put the matter bluntly, two of them (along with the Federal Reserve) are likely to control our economy and financial system in the years to come.

Infusing Washington with Goldman alums isn’t exactly an original idea. Three of the last four presidents, including The Donald, have handed the wheel of the U.S. economy to ex-Goldmanites. But in true Trumpian style, after attacking Hillary Clinton for her Goldman ties, he wasn’t satisfied to do just that. He had to do it bigger and better. Unlike Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, just a sole Goldman figure lording it over economic policy wasn’t enough for him. Only two would do.

The Great Vampire Squid Revisited

Whether you voted for or against Donald Trump, whether you’re gearing up for the revolution or waiting for his next tweet to drop, rest assured that, in the years to come, the ideology that matters most won’t be that of the “forgotten” Americans of his Inaugural Address. It will be that of Goldman Sachs and it will dominate the domestic economy and, by extension, the global one.

Link for the entire View

The Pot calling the kettle Black

Google's Eric Schmidt: Trump Admin Will Do "Evil Things" 1-31-17
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-31/googles-eric-schmidt-trump-admin-will-do-evil-things

As we reported earlier, thousands of Google employees staged protests on Monday over Trump's executive order on immigration with Bloomberg noting that more than two thousand Google employees participated across several offices.

What we did not report, however, is what Google executive chairman and staunch Hillary supporter - recall the leaked Podesta email which revealed Google's strategic plan to help Democrats win the election - Eric Schmidt told an earlier audience of Google employees. Quoting BuzzFeed, the CEO of one of the world's biggest and most influential companies said that the "Trump administration is “going to do these evil things as they’ve done in the immigration area and perhaps some others."

For a company whose original motto was "don't be evil", but was changed to "do the right thing" when Google became Alphabet, one would expect Google to be an expert in such matters, and yet questions remain.

View for links within links:

Safe Zones: Trump Continues War in Syria 1-30-17
Boiling Frogs Post

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Feinstein on Muslim Ban (Women and Children)
SenatorFeinstein
Published on Jan 30, 2017
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2cL6DTm7Fc

Senator Dianne Feinstein spoke on the Senate floor on January 30, 2017, to discuss her legislation which would rescind the president's executive order barring refugees from some countries.

 

[luc]

Not only that, but there is also a psychological aspect to it. It is extremely hard for a normally constituted adult to recognize errors and to question former and actual beliefs (we've all been there now and then and know how devastating it is). Now imagine how hard it would be for a malformed (mentally, emotionally, and probably neurologically) snowflake who cannot even face the least annoyances of the outer reality without a meltdown and reversing into primal rage (and consequently violence, it could be coming). Facing their internal shadows, they would instantly turn into dust so the only survival mechanism would be to escape further into psychosis. There is no turning back. If this situation, from the viewpoint of mind engineering, has ever been constructed on purpose, it's the work of a stunningly genius evil mind.

I think you put it very well, and this was kind of what I was getting at - I remember all too well the utter havoc and misery that I felt for quite some time when I found this place here some years ago, most of it having to do with realizations about myself. But that was voluntarily, the information and philosophy here was inviting me to completely change perspective so to speak, I could have just walked away. Now imagine you are a self-absorbed, smartphone-addicted snowflake who feels oh so special and entitled for a long time, programmed into complete narcissism and ignorance, and then reality forces you to change 180° or... what? This is soul-smashing business.

 

[RflctnOfU]

I wonder if the violent scene on Portland airport were real liberals or agents provocateurs?

My gut feeling when watching the escalation was that the 'kids'/guys in hoodies were paid to escalate disturbing irony of the whole situation seemed lost on the anti Trumpers.

Kris