Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ?

[Laura]

Just wondering could have the life of Julius Caesar, be embellished also to be more like a divine being rather than just a man? Considering he was later a figure of worship amongst competing figures of worship, it makes sense that it could be likely.

Not very likely. Most of what we know is from hostile sources.

 

[dantem]

Q: (L) During a previous reading we asked several questions about Jesus of Nazareth known as the Christ. The question was asked: "Was Jesus special, that is, Christed, in some way?" The answer came back was: "Quick exalted; wars; civil entrancement. Zindar council." I would like to know the meaning of these references.

Just a note here, I remember some years ago to have searched for "Zindar", and nothing came up. Today's there was a catch though:

Shahr-i-Zindar Monuments
It's a Mosque in Samarkand, Uzbekistan. Who knows

 

[Palinurus]

Caesar's comet was quiet an exceptional event. It occurred in July 44 B.C. during games organized in his honor. So the comet crossed the skies during Caesar's birth month and 4 months after his death.

Caesar's comet is one of the brightest comet ever observed if not the brightest one. It was visible for 7 days in a row. Its magnitude was estimated to be between -3 and -4, knowing that the more negative the magnitude of a celestial body, the brighter it is. For comparison in recorded history only 5 comets have exhibited a negative magnitude.

Found this:
Title: Book Review: Caesar's comet: the comet of 44 B. C. and Caesar's funeral games / Scholars Press, 1997
Journal: Journal for the history of astronomy vol. 28, pt. 4, p. 348 - 350 (1997)
Bibliographic Code: 1997JHA....28..348R
Source: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1997JHA....28..348R

Was going to post some copy/pasted interesting snippets but found out I'm not able to do that as this is a photo of the pages. So have a look for yourself. It's worth it, I think. :)

 

[Laura]

Found this:
Title: Book Review: Caesar's comet: the comet of 44 B. C. and Caesar's funeral games / Scholars Press, 1997

It's on my night table.

 

[Zadius Sky]

Was going to post some copy/pasted interesting snippets but found out I'm not able to do that as this is a photo of the pages.

I've managed to copy it by hand and pasting it here:

Caesar's Comet: The Comet of 44 B.C. and Caesar's Funeral Games. John T. Ramsey and A. Lewis Licht, with Foreword by Brian G. Marsden (Scholars Press, Atlanta, 1997). pp. 236. $27.95 (hardcover), $17.95 (paperback).

This excellent book is the product of a unique collaboration between an ancient historian (Ramsey) and a physicist (Licht), who have joined forces to analyse what can be known or reasonably conjectured about the great daylight comet that seems to have appeared in July 44 B.C. during the funeral games for Julius Caesar. Ramsey and Licht (R&L hereafter) have taken a large step forward in understanding the possible nature of Caesar's comet (the ancient name for which was "sidus Iulium'" or "Julian Star," named for the Julian family to which Caesar belonged), and the role that this comet played in the events that shaped the earliest political career of Caesar's adopted son and successor, Octavian, who later become the first Roman emperor, Augustus. It was young Octavian who paid for and presented Caesar's funeral games, and who seized the opportunity of promoting the comet as a divine portent of Caesar's apotheosis as the god Divus Iulius, thereby making himself the son of a god and fit to be the rightful ruler of Rome.

R&L's book is, therefore, very much historical; the astronomy in it, while novel and ground-breaking, serves the overarching historical emphasis. Part I examines the historical name of Caesar's funeral games. R&L argue that what Octavian presented in July 44 B.C. was not only funeral games (ludi funebres), but also a celebration of the festival that Caesar himself had instituted in September 46 B.C. under the name "ludi Veneris Genetricis" ("Game of Venus the Ancestress"). They argue that Octavian changed the date of this festival in 44 B.C. to July and combined it with funeral games. This is an original argument; hitherto, ancient historians have generally supposed that Caesar himself changed the date in 45 B.C. Furthermore, these games may also have been more loosely dedicated to celebrating Caesar's personal goddess, Victory. In later times the games were actually renamed the "ludi Victoriae Caesaris" ("Games of Caesar's Victory"), and continued to be celebrated in July, the month named for Julius Caesar. It appears then that Octavian's games of July 44 B.C. should be regarded as an extravaganza in celebration of the greatest glories of the Julian house: Caesar, Caesar's Victory, and Venus who was the mythic ancestor of the Julians. This, R&L argue, was the charged historical context in which the comet appeared, an event most opportune for Octavian.

Part II then examines the astronomy of Caesar's comet and the host of associated problems. The ancient observations come from two sources and from two different time periods. The Chinese recorded a comet with an 8° to 10° tail, visible in the evening sky near the Sun during late May and early June. We can plausibly locate this comet in the area of the sky between Gemini and Auriga. European texts next record a brilliant star-like object or comet, visible in full daylight and rising in the north at the 11th hour of the day (late afternoon). Between these two sightings, European records may also indicate the appearance of a "torch" (meaning either a type of comet or a meteor) moving from east to west.

Astronomers had traditionally assumed that Caesar's funeral games occurred in September. But that would make it impossible for the Chinese and Romans to have been viewing the same object: too much time would have elapsed between sightings. Classicists, on the other hand, have understood that Caesar's games occurred in late July. By pooling the knowledge of their separate disciplines, R&L have therefore been able for the first time to link the separate sightings.

By examining a simulation of the sky at Rome in the late afternoon of July 44 B.C., R&L have concluded that the comet probably appeared in the constellation Cassiopeia. And armed with two positions (Gemini-Auriga at the end of May; Cassiopeia at the end of July) as well as an assumption about the approximate perihelion date and distance, they can speculate about a possible orbit for Caesar's comet. It is reassuring that Brian Marsden has examined these methods and seems to find them acceptable (p. xiii of his judicious Foreword to their book; he also helped in their orbital research, pp. 125-6).

R&L also speculate about a possible light curve for Caesar's comet. They assume that the comet travelled in a retrograde orbit, reaching perihelion at about the time of the Chinese observation, and then sped away from the Sun and somewhat closer to Earth. Near perihelion it must have reached into the negative magnitudes to be seen close to the Sun after sunset. The most plausible light curve that R&L present (p. 123) has the comet reaching approximately magnitude -3 in May, when it appeared as an evening object, then fading to magnitude 5 by mid-July, during which interval it became a morning object and travelled across the sky from east to west, in accordance with the European observation of a "torch." After that R&L speculate that the comet experienced an outburst during the funeral games that raised its apparent magnitude to about -4. Such an outburst also accords with European texts, which hesitate whether to call the object a comet or a star, and describe it as looking like "a very large star that was surrounded with rays, like streamers on a garland" (pp. 162-5). This could perhaps be the description of material being ejected from the nucleus during the intense outburst.

All of this, it turns out, is physically plausible and comparable to the behaviour of modern comets, apart from one feature. It seems that no other known comet has ever reached such a high apparent magnitude during an outburst, although that may simply be due to the fact that no modern comet has experienced such a large outburst so close to the Earth (p. 72).

R&L's word does face one serious problem, which they frankly acknowledge: the number of coincidences that their scenario requires. Specifically, we are compelled to believe that at a major juncture of Western history a spectacular naked-eye comet just happened to appear and that it just happened to experience an unprecedented outburst. But more damaging is that the Chinese, while having observed this object several months earlier in a less interesting phase, completely failed to report it when it flared well into the negative magnitudes. And finally, the best and the most detailed contemporary source of Roman information, Marcus Tullius Cicero, whose surviving letters and speeches from the 40s B.C. number into many hundreds of pages, also completely failed to notice the comet despite the stir it seems to have caused at Rome.

The hypothesis of such a series of coincidences is "bound to arouse suspicion," as R&L admit (p. 95). They twice try to allay that suspicion (pp. 61-65; 95-117) by a series of ingenious arguments, and even consider the possibility that the July sighting was a propagandistic fabrication put forth by Augustus years later (pp. 61-65). Such a bald-faced lie was not Augustus' way; R&L rightly reject that possibility. Nevertheless, although their account of the comet and games makes good sense and deserves careful consideration and high praise, R&L's difficulty in finding a really satisfactory explanation for the absence of the Chinese and Ciceronian mention of the July comet suggests that more work on that problem may be possible.

The final portion of the book turns to the astrological implications of Caesar's comet. Here again R&L have made a significant and original contribution by recognizing for the first time that Caesar's comet would have risen as seen from Rome with Capricorn in the ascendant. This explains the previously cryptic remark review that it [the comet] had come into being for him and that he was coming into being in it" (p. 159). Capricorn was the astrological sign that Augustus considered most significant for himself. Thus, as R&L explain (pp. 147-53), the young Octavian seems privately to have interpreted the sidus Iulium as a portent meant for him, heralding his birth into the Julian family and his destiny as a great leader at Rome.

A series of useful appendices concludes the book. The most important of these (Appendix I) quotes all 33 of the Greek and Roman sources relating to Caesar's comet and games. These sources are presented in both the original languages and in English translation. The Chinese sources are also quoted (in English) on pp. 75-76 and p. 80.

Roger Ceragioli
University of Houston

Journal for the history of astronomy vol. 28, pt. 4, p. 348 (1997)

 

[Palinurus]

Thank you, Zadius Sky, for going the extra mile to provide us with this review in full.

 

[Ariadna]

It is available in Spanish here:

El Evangelio de César
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbxm37qd1ro

Documental sobre la búsqueda de un lingüista y un sacerdote católico que encuentran el origen del Cristianismo y el verdadero Jesucristo histórico: Julio César.

Propiedad intelectual de: Jan van Friesland (productor y director), Francesco Carotta (lingüista) y Pedro García González (sacerdote)

Thank you very much Psyche, just now I was wondering if there was version in Spanish. I thought search

 

[aragorn]

Just watched the documentary yesterday. Very interesting, indeed! I'm sure the disinformation machine will go on overdrive once this theory starts spreading, coming up with some ridiculous explanations.

 

[Eongar]

It is available in Spanish here:

El Evangelio de César
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbxm37qd1ro

Documental sobre la búsqueda de un lingüista y un sacerdote católico que encuentran el origen del Cristianismo y el verdadero Jesucristo histórico: Julio César.

Propiedad intelectual de: Jan van Friesland (productor y director), Francesco Carotta (lingüista) y Pedro García González (sacerdote)

Thank you very much Psyche, just now I was wondering if there was version in Spanish. I thought search

Posted in es.sott.net:

http://es.sott.net/article/21861-Documental-El-evangelio-de-Cesar

 

[Z...]

Not very likely. Most of what we know is from hostile sources.

Yes - there is that well know quote about Ceasar "Every woman's husband and every man's wife" coined by Curio, according to Suetonius, indicating his bisexuality and lack of scruples,
I remember even our high-school history teacher was saying the same.

 

[seek10]

Fascinating compelling video. Still, there should be another Jesus christ who is stoic , reiki healer, christed one who exposed psychopathology whose teachings this emperor JC overshadowed for 2000 years .

Why? If you read "Horns of Moses" carefully, you would have noted that various stories about different stoics seem to be the roots of certain sayings of Jesus later on not to mention fundamental concepts.
...
You need to read a LOT about Caesar to get the whole picture. Wikipedia is simply not adequate or even all that accurate.

Though I was remembering the stoic stuff, but lack of stoic connection, image of war mongering man with illegal relationships and C’s talk of Zindar council ( cycle exchangers) made me think that there has to be another person. Possibility of JC being a stoic student, acts of honest and grace as miracles completely eliminates that need of separate person.

Read through the session again to understand my impressions. Very interesting.
941022

Q: (L) During a previous reading we asked several questions about Jesus of Nazareth known as the Christ. The question was asked: "Was Jesus special, that is, Christed, in some way?" The
answer came back was: "Quick exalted; wars; civil entrancement. Zindar council." I would like to know the meaning of these references.
A: Quick exalted refers to a sudden boost of awareness level as related to your previous questions about knowledge. Sometimes that acquisition can occur in a surge and sometimes this is
referred to as illumination. Jesus acquired his knowledge by having complete faith in his ability to acquire the knowledge from a higher source. This faith caused an equal balancing interaction
with higher sources, which allowed him to gain supreme knowledge simply by having that faith. Remember that the resources for the acquisition of knowledge in the space/time ere of Christ
were much more limited than they are now. There were few options open for acquiring true knowledge except total and complete faith. And this one was instilled with the awareness that total
and complete faith would cause dramatic and spectacular acquisition of knowledge; also would cause dramatic and spectacular progression of the soul being. Therefore, the faith was felt, the
knowledge was received.

So this reminds me of Story of Ashoka who after battle took up Buddhism, though there are some signsin JC before the war.

Q: (L) What was the source of the knowledge?
A: The source was the sixth level of density which is where we reside and we also were involved in that as well.

Sounding like sort of Inspiration.

Q: (L) What does the term "Civil entrancement" mean?
A: Civil entrancement is a complete balancing of one's useful energies to a level where there is no experiencing of over balancing on the positive or negative side which is preferable for
meditation in a mass form.

Civil entrancement sounding more like Charisma. Reminds me of Gandhi, JFK, MLK etc. in their abilities in move people, irrespective of their weaknesses.

Q: (L) What is the Zendar Council?
A: Zendar Council is a sixth level density council which spans both physical and ethereal realms and which oversees dramatic development points at various civilizational sectors in lower
density levels.
Q: (L) I would like you to expound a bit on the life of Christ in terms of chronology of events. Could you tell us about his understanding about himself, his interaction with higher sources, his
state of being Christed, and what was the true work he came her to do and how did he accomplish it?
A: His awareness of who and what he was gradually came as he grew. He was taught by us through his faith as described previously. And you should have faith as well because you would find
things would come to you as "knowings" more often than even now. Jesus awareness of his mission and his actions pertaining to it were part of the natural progression of his growth and
development.[bold] The information about his "miracles" has been largely corrupted by writings which have been passed down after the actual event period. [/bold] Most of these writings are by entities who
wish to confuse and corrupt all humanity for previously stated purposes. The idea was that if one perceived Jesus as performing physical miracles, then your entire understanding of what the life
experience here on earth and on this plane is, and the meaning for it all, is also corrupted and the knowledge is blocked which is the goal of those who have done this. [bold] Jesus' purpose and plan
was to teach knowledge to all who sought but did not have the strength to express as great a level of faith as he had to acquire the knowledge as he did from higher sources. If they were open and
willing to learn they could be taught by hearing. He had only very limited success in imparting faith to others because faith comes solely from within and that is one of the most difficult things for
beings on your plane to acquire. [/bold]

940722

Q: (L) What is the Zindar Council?
A: Two cycle exchangers mission.

sounding like, Whenever comets enter solar system that allows sun’s discharges thus opens a sort of portal for Higher beings to transmit through breaking frequency fence. Or sort of mutation in brain structures for some one prepared to receive or both.

Q: (L) Who was Jesus of Nazareth?
A: Advanced spirit.

Well, we have seen many advanced spirits, only thing is we can’t identify them. ex: Arafat.

Q: (L) Details about Jesus' extended "sleep" state.
A: He spent 96 hours in a comatose state in a cave near Jerusalem. When he awoke, he prophesied to his disciples and then exited the cave. 27,000 people had assembled because of mother ship
appearance and he was taken up in a beam of light.

He was in coma, but people thought he is dead ?. Does mother ship means huge naval ship and beam of light means glittering oil lamps in procession ?.

Fascinating. The entire thing is very demystifying.

My grandfather has little prayer place in their small house that was decorated with picture frames of all Hindu ( comet/planet )gods and the frame of MK Gandhi. Later, the frame list started to grow with Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi. By the time Indira Gandhi’s picture got there, I lost complete faith in the prayer ritual and ended up disappointed with the stupidity. Anything can be made to believe with sword,poverty and trauma.

 

[Zadius Sky]

Under the "Crucified?" section in the third chapter of Jesus was Caesar:

From this examination we can conclude that while Jesus' crucifixion is not necessarily a crucifixion at all, it actually replicates the cremation of Caesar.

Seems to fit this snippet of the session:

Q: (L) Was somebody crucified on a cross and represented to be Jesus?

A: No.

Q: (L) There was no crucifixion, there was no resurrection after three days, is that correct?

A: Close.

I'm still reading through Carotta's book...

fwiw.

Not very likely. Most of what we know is from hostile sources.

Yes - there is that well know quote about Ceasar "Every woman's husband and every man's wife" coined by Curio, according to Suetonius, indicating his bisexuality and lack of scruples,
I remember even our high-school history teacher was saying the same.

Most of my past professor as well. I also remembered hearing "dictator, dictator, dictator" as that's a very evil thing (growing up with that "dictator equals evil"). Then, just yesterday, I was reading about this word during the times of Caesar, which doesn't have that negative meaning and serves a specific purpose:

From: _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictator

Roman origin

In the Roman Republic, the term "Dictator" did not have the negative meaning it has later assumed. Rather, a Dictator was a person given sole power (unlike the normal Roman republican practice, where rule was divided between two equal Consuls) for a specific limited period, in order to deal with an emergency. At the end of his term, the Dictator was supposed to hand power over to the normal Consular rule and give account of his actions – and Roman Dictators usually did.

The term started to get its modern negative meaning with Cornelius Sulla's ascension to the dictatorship following Sulla's second civil war, making himself the first Dictator in more than a century (during which the office was ostensibly abolished) as well as de facto eliminating the time limit and need of senatorial acclamation, although he avoided a major constitutional crisis by resigning the office after about one year due to poor health, dying shortly after. Caesar followed the example in 49 BC and in February 44 BC was proclaimed Dictator perpetuo, "Dictator in perpetuity", officially doing away with any limitations on his power, which he kept until his assassination the following month.

From: _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dictator

In the Roman Republic, the dictator ("one who dictates"), was an extraordinary magistrate (magistratus extraordinarius) with the absolute authority to perform tasks beyond the authority of the ordinary magistrate (magistratus ordinarius). The office of dictator was a legal innovation originally named Magister Populi (Master of the People), i.e., Master of the Citizen Army.

The Roman Senate passed a senatus consultum authorizing the consuls to nominate a dictator — the sole exception to the Roman legal principles of collegiality (multiple tenants in the same office) and responsibility (legal liability for official actions) — only one man was appointed, and, as the highest magistrate, he was not legally liable for official actions; 24 lictors attended him. Only a single dictator was allowed, because of the imperium magnum, the great, extraordinary power with which he could over-rule, or depose from office, or put to death other curule magistrates, also possessed of imperium.

There were several forms of dictator, distinguished by their causa, or reason for their creation. The most common form, and the one most associated with the Roman dictator, was rei gerundae causa, "for the matter to be done," which almost always involved leading an army in the field and specified the enemy to be combated. At least one dictator (and possibly more) was designated seditionis sedandae et rei gerundae causa, "for the putting down of rebellion and the matter to be done." Dictators were also appointed to serve administrative or religious functions, such as holding elections (comitiorum habendorum causa, the second most common form of dictatorship) or driving a nail into the Temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus to end a pestilence (clavi figendi causa).

Rome ceased to appoint dictators around the time of the Second Punic War. The office was revived during the Roman Civil War by Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, who was appointed dictator legibus faciendis et rei publicae constituendae causa (dictator for the making of laws and for the settling of the constitution). Julius Caesar was also named dictator on several occasions. The Roman emperors eschewed use of the title to avoid the opprobrium it attracted as the result of these last two dictators.

 

[dantem]

For those without books or Kindle's at the moment, there's a bit of reading HERE.

Book excerpts from Philip Freeman's 'Julius Caesar'. Includes some background from Caesar's trip to Rhodes, and contacts with Apollonius and Posidonius. Probably some twisted reporting here, but an overall picture after all.

This Caesar's stuff is totally fascinating. Now I'm having a big headache just thinking about what the heck the Apostle Paul was really doing around the whole upper Mediterranean!

Tasted some response about Carotta's theory, people here seems to be more resistant to this idea than Iman Wilken's Northern Troy... that in any way seems to need a revision, or so I was left with after reading HOM.
Hope that this research about JC will shine a new light about the real state of the World in Ancient times.

 

[Aithin Tusa Fein]

The Wikipedia article 'Ancient Rome' found at:

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_rome

had this to say:

The city of Rome grew from settlements around a ford on the river Tiber, a crossroads of traffic and trade.[23] According to archaeological evidence, the village of Rome was probably founded sometime in the 8th century BC, though it may go back as far as the 10th century BC, by members of the Latin tribe of Italy, on the top of the Palatine Hill.[24][25]

The Etruscans, who had previously settled to the north in Etruria, seem to have established political control in the region by the late 7th century BC, forming the aristocratic and monarchical elite. The Etruscans apparently lost power in the area by the late 6th century BC, and at this point, the original Latin and Sabine tribes reinvented their government by creating a republic, with much greater restraints on the ability of rulers to exercise power.[26]

Roman tradition and archaeological evidence point to a complex within the Forum Romanum as the seat of power for the king and the beginnings of the religious center there as well. Numa Pompilius was the second king of Rome, succeeding Romulus. He began Rome's great building projects with his royal palace the Regia and the complex of the Vestal virgins.

I don't know if Julius Caesar was related to the Etruscans but if there is a connection, I found this in the transcript of Session 21 June 1997, found here:

_https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26587.msg319778.html#msg319778

Q: Change of subject: I am tracking the clues through the various languages and alphabets. I would like to know which of these alphabets, Runic, Greek, or Etruscan, preceded the others, and from which the others are derived?

A: Etruscan.

Q: Well, who were the Etruscans?

A: Templar carriers.

Q: What does that mean?

A: Seek and ye shall find.

Q: Well, how am I supposed to do that? I can't find anything else on the Etruscans!

A: No.

Q: What do you mean 'no?' You mean there is more out there on the Etruscans?

A: Yes.

Q: Okay. What are Templar carriers?

A: Penitent Avian Lords.

Q: What does that mean?

A: For your search. All is drawn from some more ancient form.

The "Seek and ye shall find" is a saying of Jesus.

 

[Laura]

The story says that "Caesar never reached Rhodes" because he was captured by "Cilician pirates". That is a key. The Cilician Pirates were supposed to be the first who introduced the Mysteries of Mithras which I am conjecturing was a creation of stoics, and Posidonius was a stoic. Further, if you read Plutarch's parallel lives: Caesar and Antony, you will notice some very strange remarks he has to make about these pirates.

Then there is the total BS story about Pompey clearing the Med of pirates in something like 40 days...

Some very strange historical prestidigitation going on there. The pirate story is almost a doublet of the story of Caesar vis a vis Sulla's head-hunters.