Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ?

[beetlemaniac]

It's interesting that the date appears on the last chapter of HoM as well, which was the time the Declaration of Amsterdam was signed (13th July 2001).

 

[whitecoast]

What a riveting documentary - fascinating to ponder what could possibly change/take place if masses of people become aware of the information. A totally intriguing and very plausible theory.
Really looking forward to tomorrow's SOTT Talk Radio discussion on this topic.

What an amazing time we're living in.

Yes, wonderful documentary! I did a cursory search of some other documentaries involving Rome at the time, but it appeared quite a few of them did paint Caesar in a negative light, which isn't surprising given how shoddy and lazy a lot of historical narrative is.

I did find out that Caesar, when pronounced the way the Romans pronounced it, actually sounds more like the German Kaiser (ˈkaj.sar phonetically), which I thought was kinda neat.

 

[Laura]

Freeman's biography is excellent if you just want to read the story. Gelzer's "Caesar: Politician and Statesman" is also excellent. It's loaded with sources. http://www.amazon.com/Caesar-Politician-Statesman-Mattias-Gelzer/dp/0674090012

In 1912 a young scholar published a slim volume investigating the social structure of the late Roman Republic, which was in due course to transform the study of Roman history. The author, Professor Gelzer, went on to hold the Chair of Ancient History at Frankfurt and to become the greatest German-speaking historian of the Roman Republic since Mommsen. In 1921 he published his Caesar, which has by now gone through six editions in Germany and is still the standard account, in any language, of Caesar and his age. It amply fulfills the author's intent "to give the educated public a lively picture of the complete political career of one of the great statesmen of the past."

Based on a conscientious evaluation of the abundant source materials—primarily the writings of Caesar and his contemporaries—Professor Gelzer's portrait renders Caesar in heroic proportions, destined and determined from the beginning to overthrow a corrupt aristocracy. The sixth edition (1960), brought up to date and provided with full annotations by the author, is the basis of this translation, which for the first time makes the work available in English.

Then, there is also Goldsworthy's book: Caesar: Life of a Colossus

http://www.amazon.com/Caesar-Life-Colossus-Adrian-Goldsworthy/dp/0300126891/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373783416&sr=1-1&keywords=caesar+colossus

Tracing the extraordinary trajectory of the great Roman emperor’s life, Goldsworthy covers not only the great Roman emperor’s accomplishments as charismatic orator, conquering general, and powerful dictator but also lesser-known chapters during which he was high priest of an exotic cult, captive of pirates, seducer not only of Cleopatra but also of the wives of his two main political rivals, and rebel condemned by his own country. Ultimately, Goldsworthy realizes the full complexity of Caesar’s character and shows why his political and military leadership continues to resonate some two thousand years later.

In the introduction to his biography of the great Roman emperor, Adrian Goldsworthy writes, “Caesar was at times many things, including a fugitive, prisoner, rising politician, army leader, legal advocate, rebel, dictator . . . as well as husband, father, lover and adulterer.” In this landmark biography, Goldsworthy examines Caesar as military leader, all of these roles and places his subject firmly within the context of Roman society in the first century B.C.

 

[Gwenllian]

Found this video documentary about Francesco Carotta and his idea about Jesus being Caesar:

The Gospel of Caesar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwfY069iPVI

Just watched 60 minutes or so. And I agree with the others. It is a fascinating watch.
At one point Carotta and the Spanish priest travel to the Greek part of Cyprus, where they witness these young men diving into the water. That reminded me of a scene in the movie 'The talented mr. Ripley', which was set in Italy during the fifties (?). If I am not mistaken the Italians celebrated/remembered the same event? But I have to watch the film again to be absolutely sure.

 

[Gaby]

H a p p y C ' m a s ! ! :D

Certainly gives new meaning to the frequently celebrated (in these parts) 'Christmas in July' festivities! ;)

Over this corner of the world in Spain, it is big party time in July as well, precisely this week. I find it interesting that it involves bulls.

Happy Caesar's Birthday!

 

[Biomiast]

The story says that "Caesar never reached Rhodes" because he was captured by "Cilician pirates". That is a key. The Cilician Pirates were supposed to be the first who introduced the Mysteries of Mithras which I am conjecturing was a creation of stoics, and Posidonius was a stoic. Further, if you read Plutarch's parallel lives: Caesar and Antony, you will notice some very strange remarks he has to make about these pirates.

Very interesting information about the pirates. Also some of the stoics in your book are from Cilicia region such as Chrysippus of Soli and Antipater of Tarsus. Maybe they passed on the knowledge of stoics to their followers/relatives in the region to initiate the Mysteries of Mithras?

 

[trendsetter37]

So would it totally inconsiderate if I posted some of this information on my facebook wall? I watched the documentary yesterday and it was a huge eye-opener. One would have to really be disconnected from perceiving objective reality (or not even trying) if you couldn't pick up on the connections between Jesus and Julius illustrated by the evidence that was being portrayed. Most (around 95% ) of my friends on facebook are fundy leaning and I think it might cause some suffering on their end due to making every decision and status about "giving it all" to Jesus as their savior.

Recently i've posted things that I'm assuming they just don't care about but if my post was "Who was Jesus" I think that might draw undo attention. I guess they could skip over it but i'm sure my family would see it and draw preconceived notions without even investigating it....

One of the biggest moments for me in the doc. was how he showed that translations to or from greek could come down to one stroke of on character while every other letter would remain the same. Wow.

 

[Buddy]

So would it totally inconsiderate if I posted some of this information on my facebook wall?

Good question. Personally, my first thought is this: If you really care about what you're doing, then I would say it comes down to how well prepared you are to field a gamut of reactions, from mild curiosity to flame-throwing. For me, what would probably benefit me most would be taxing my restraint by waiting for the right opportunity to inject a thought or two that links in with the flow of an existing dialog unless I was starting one myself, of course.

But that's just me while there are probably dozens and dozens of ways - maybe even better and more creative ones - to share timely info.

 

[happyliza]

Loved the documentary and the film -both of which showed the caring side of JC osit. I dont have a copy to hand but was wondering about re-reading Shakespeare's JC to see how much he knew about the real JC. I enjoyed studying it at school but would have been given a totally different slant on it.

I also noticed in the film that JC's wife didn't seem to be in a natural pose for someone whose husband was dying and certainly not that of 'piety'.

 

[Foxx]

Found this video documentary about Francesco Carotta and his idea about Jesus being Caesar:

The Gospel of Caesar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwfY069iPVI

I watched this last night as well and it definitely brought up a number of interesting parallels and makes a good case for Jesus being based on Julius. I don't really know much about Caesar, so it's not a strong knowledge base for me to draw from. Obviously, I'm very interested to see where Laura takes it!

The thing that kept wandering through my mind was when I was on a trip to Rome in high school and we had a tour guide who kept saying "All roads lead to Rome" and discussing a number of ways that the history of Rome influenced our world today.

Just watched 60 minutes or so. And I agree with the others. It is a fascinating watch.
At one point Carotta and the Spanish priest travel to the Greek part of Cyprus, where they witness these young men diving into the water. That reminded me of a scene in the movie 'The talented mr. Ripley', which was set in Italy during the fifties (?). If I am not mistaken the Italians celebrated/remembered the same event? But I have to watch the film again to be absolutely sure.

That seemed like a strange practice to me and it reminded me of when the bride throws the flowers at a marriage.

 

[Joe]

Its incredible the JCs parallels to Mitra.

- Mithra born in a grotto
- attended by magi who followed a star from the East
- brought "gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh"
- was a newborn baby was adored by shepherds
- Mithra, one of a trinity
- had a last supper with Helios and 11 other companions
- Mithra was later crucified on a cross, bound in linen, placed in a rock tomb
- rose on the third day or around 25 March
- Mithra promised to return in person to Earth and save deserving souls.

Just wondering could have the life of Julius Caesar, be embellished also to be more like a divine being rather than just a man? Considering he was later a figure of worship amongst competing figures of worship, it makes sense that it could be likely.

We can perhaps say that Ceasar's life was 'embellished' in the sense that his life story, especially his death, were used as the foundation for the creation of a new religion that may also have incorporated aspects of other beliefs at the time, including the 'cult of ceasar', and turned him into a god that merely had to be worshiped in order to achieve salvation (i.e. "I'm a Christian therefore I'm going to be saved, regardless of how I live my life).

That's not to say that there may not have been other beliefs associated with Mithraism as a "mystery school", but if there were, then Christianity did a good job of blotting those out, "wiping them from the pages of history", as it were, not to mention largely eclipsing the important aspects of Julius Ceasar, who he was, what he stood for, and the potential vision he had for humanity at the time.

A pretty dastardly and devastating maneuver all in all, at a time when it seems there was the potential to turn things around for humanity and set them on a positive course. Perhaps that's the reason why such a maneuver was made. Then again, that posits some 'higher power, some 'evil demiurge' messing with the course of human evolution, if only in the form of psychopaths in positions of power.

 

[Thomas Alan]

Fascinating ideas. That Christianity was invented based on the real story of Julius Caesar. I watched the video, very strong evidence that the two stories are related in many ways. Unlikely that Jesus existed at all and that Christianity was started as a fraud, to distract people from the reality of their times, keep them in "their place" under the iron fist of their rulers.

I need to do more study on Julius Caesar. My college history was long ago and there are only a few impressions. That he was another ancient world dictator and egoist. So far, reading the thread he seems a bit of an ancient JFK. Wanting to do what was right for all and in so doing raising the ire of the elite who eventually killed him.

I bought the Kindle version of the Complete works. http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Julius-Caesar-Illustrated-ebook/dp/B007R3QZ2A/ref=sr_1_7?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1373811016&sr=1-7&keywords=julius+caesar Only $1.49 USD. A mere 9700 screens! :O But reading parts of it will give me some background and new impressions.

Also I will order some the books suggested. This topic is a real eye opener.

Mac

 

[Joe]

Q: (L) Who was Jesus of Nazareth?
A: Advanced spirit.

Well, we have seen many advanced spirits, only thing is we can’t identify them. ex: Arafat.

Q: (L) Details about Jesus' extended "sleep" state.
A: He spent 96 hours in a comatose state in a cave near Jerusalem. When he awoke, he prophesied to his disciples and then exited the cave. 27,000 people had assembled because of mother ship
appearance and he was taken up in a beam of light.

He was in coma, but people thought he is dead ?. Does mother ship means huge naval ship and beam of light means glittering oil lamps in procession ?.

Fascinating. The entire thing is very demystifying.

I think the point might be that there may have been a person going around Judea at that time that fits the C's description, but he wasn't called Jesus and he had little or nothing to do with the creation of Christianity, except in the sense that any of his teachings may have spread to a wide enough audience that the powers that be in Rome saw it as one more example of a burgeoning threat to their positions from the people and therefore the need for an organised manufactured religion that they controlled and would not pose a threat to their power and, indeed, provide them with the means to entrench their positions and remain there for a long time. Or so they may have thought/conspired. That is, obviously, the 'grand conspiracy' take on it, which may not be the way it happened. Things may have evolved more or less organically in terms of psychopaths in power and a population willing to believe in anything that promised "salvation" (a new idea for many at the time, or so it seems).

 

[Yozilla]

H a p p y C ' m a s ! ! :D

Certainly gives new meaning to the frequently celebrated (in these parts) 'Christmas in July' festivities! ;)

Over this corner of the world in Spain, it is big party time in July as well, precisely this week. I find it interesting that it involves bulls.

Happy Caesar's Birthday!

Hmmm all these celebratory odes towards Caesar make me wanna change my nick... Yozilla looks a kind of goofy and inmature ....



Y

 

[ytain]

Movie about Julius Caesar. Think I want to watch this one too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYEvyCqo8jU

Here is the Spanish version this movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIohdrceT58
[/quote]


That movie is missing about 40 minutes of extra footage, however the movie script doesn't cast Julius Caesar in a positive light overall.


Ytain