Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ?

[Akopirnas]

...And pirates were a threat for western greek islands, where among others there is Zante...

If we look at interests of "greek ministers of religion" which could and wanted to serve interests of Romans elite, remembering their education, where a myth of Odyssey prevailed, then a direct analogy appears: since information about Jesus arrives at Zante, why they could not develop idea of the cult of Caesar under slogan "guarantee of our existence must be modified under sign of new Messiah"..?

Remember that Zante lies a bit more South from Odyssey´s motherland Ithaca and island which lies north to Ithaca has legend about Telon:

„A son of Telon by a nymph of the stream Sbethus near Naples. Telon, originally a king of the Teleboans had come from the island of Taphos to Capreae, in Italy; and Oebalus settled in Campania. (Virg. Aea. vii. 734).
In Homeric Greece, the islands of Taphos (Τάφος) lay in the Ionian Sea off the coast of Acarnania in northwestern Greece, home of sea-going and piratical inhabitants, the Taphians (Τάφιοι).
...
In the Odyssey, Dulichium (which may be an island in the Echniades) is frequently mentioned along with Same (Kefalonia), Zacynthus, and Ithaca as one of the islands subject to Ulysses, and is celebrated for its fertility.
...
The island was then conquered by the Great Imperial King Arkeisios of Kefalonia. The famous Ulysses from Ithaca was the next King to conquer the island.
...
In 34 A.D. Maria Magdalena and Maria Klopa, on their way to Rome, brought Christianity to the island and the name of the village Maries is a proof of this fact. Every year there is a great ceremony and feast to commemorate this event.
...
Popular belief has it that this was spread by Mary Magdalene and Mary of Cliopa on their way to Rome.
...
However, random findings such as the ancient Greek sign of the Chancel Table in the Church of Saint in Melinado, the exonarthex (outer narthex) columns of the same temple, coins, architectural elements, etc., that occasionally come to light, in different positions, combined with the information of ancient writers convince us that there is a significant past here.
...
Zakynthos both in classical and Hellenistic to Roman times always plays a part, the one that its location and size permit it, contributing that way to the historic events of each period. For the exact time that Christianity was spread into the island of Zakynthos there is no historically attested information, although it is concluded that the new religion prevailed not before the middle of the 3 rd century AC.”

„You once said that the Bible was written by Greek enforcers, and now you have just said that the myths were Stalinized“:

Q: Where did these Greek enforcers come from?
A: Order of Thelon.
Q: Never heard of it. On another occasion you called the Nephilim “enforcers.” Is there any relation between this order of Thelon and the Nephilim?
A: Maybe …
Q: Where is the headquarters of this group?
A: Sicinthos.
Q: Is that a place? Never heard of it.
A: Yes.

Certainly, there is an echo with other island of similar name:

„The trunk drifted all the way to Oinoi. Here Thoas met a nymph and had a son whom he named Sikinos. The island was named after this man, Sikinos, son of Thoas.
...
The name is dated back to prehistoric times. The first reference of "Sikinos" is made by Solon in 604 B.C.
This man's name is Thoas. He is the king of the island of Lemnos. He is hiding in a trunk. This is how he fled his home island, as women of Lemnos revolted and slaughtered all males.
...
Episkopi is also well worth a visit. No one knows for certain what the ancient ruins under the 7th century church were. The most common theory is that it was a temple dedicated to Apollo...”


Maybe it is necessary to stop on Zante as the root of phenomena because its greater size, affinity to Italy and because of taxes at that time for ideologists of this interesting and such profitable idea..?

 

[Ariadna]

Hi,
A few days ago I dreamed something that I only remember a picture, this was a thin Christ sculpture, polychrome, arms straight and stretched and with a white cloth around his body and rolled, at least to his left arm. The size was natural, as the figures that exist in many Christian churches. All this sculpture was broken, fractured into several large pieces, 3 or 4 maybe. These pieces were on the floor, or something, and some parts were slightly piled one upon another, like the pieces of a puzzle when dropped on the table.

When I woke up and remembered this picture I associated primarily with EE practice and prayer of the soul. My religious background was the Catholic Church, although I have not been regular practitioner and I have not always followed the guidelines, Jesus has been the image and most potent symbol related to my spirituality. First I thought that this dream could mean that I was more disconnected from this attachment to the figure of Jesus or a dream detox or maybe something I had to learn ... Neither gave the dream much important. I found it strange.

When yesterday I was watching Carotta Francesco documentary and almost finished when I remembered the dream picture and gained another sense related to this topic. It might be a subconscious way my mind to prepare the ground for this information? I will follow the subject closely.

Thanks for reading these lines and letting me share this experience. :)

 

[psychegram]

Watched the documentary and must say, it gathers together an impressive amount of evidence. It makes a lot of sense, and also makes Christianity suddenly a lot more interesting, at least to me. Since quite a young age I've had a certain contempt for the faith, due to the rank hypocrisy of so many of its adherents; the total absence of evidence for an historical Jesus just confirmed this outlook, that Christianity was nothing but a mind control cult meant to keep the slaves placid so the upper classes could operate unopposed. More recently I'd come to the view that perhaps Jesus had existed, but had been utterly different from the biblical version.

This throws things in a whole different light. I don't think I'll ever be able to look at any aspect of Christianity the same way again.

On another note, I've been re-watching the HBO series Rome. It doesn't exactly portray Caeser in a positive light: while the political and economic aspects of his program are certainly acknowledged, as well as his use of mercy, Caeser himself comes off as a manipulative, power-hungry would-be tyrant, who acts in the people's interests only to gain the favour of the mob rather than out of a genuine prosocial altruisim. Perhaps this is a bit of a harsh assessment of the show, as compared to the other historical characters Caeser actually comes off quite well. Still, there's no suggestion that he was, in addition to a skilled leader, orator, writer, and strategist, also a deep initiate of stoic mysteries. In fact there is essentially no mention of this philosophical undercurrent at all.

 

[Mal7]

Nietzsche (1844-1900), who became a Professor of Classics at the young age of 24, seems to have been an admirer of Caesar. Here are a few of the passages referring to Caesar in The Will to Power (later writings of Niezsche assembled posthumously from his notebooks):

1. Systematic falsification of history; so that it may provide the proof of moral valuation:
a. decline of a people and corruption;
b. rise of a people and virtue;
c. zenith of a people ("its culture") as consequence of moral elevation.

2. Systematic falsification of great human beings, the great creators, the great epochs:
one desires that faith should be the distinguishing mark of the great: but slackness, skepticism, "immorality," the right to throw off a faith, belong to greatness (Caesar, also Homer, Aristophanes, Leonardo, Goethe). One always suppresses the main thing, their "freedom of will" -

- from Section 380.

"The will to power" is so hated in democratic ages that their entire psychology seems directed toward belittling and defaming it. The type of the great ambitious man who thirsts after honor is supposed to be Napoleon! And Caesar! And Alexander! - As if these were not precisely the great despisers of honor!

- from Section 751.

The will to power appears
a. among the oppressed, among slaves of all kinds, as will to "freedom": merely getting free seems to be the goal (religio-morally: "Responsible to one's own conscience alone"; "evangelical freedom," etc.);
b. among a stronger kind of man, getting ready for power, as will to overpower; if it is at first unsuccessful, then it limits itself to the will to "justice", i.e. to the same measure of rights as the ruling type possesses;
c. among the strongest, richest, most independent, most courageous, as "love of mankind," of "the people," of the gospel, of truth, God; as sympathy; "self-sacrifice," etc.; as overpowering, bearing away with oneself, taking into one's service, as instinctive self-involvement with a great quantum of power to which one is able to give direction: the hero, the prophet, the Caesar, the savior, the shepherd; [. . .]

- from Section 776.

To remain objective, hard, firm, severe in carrying through an idea - artists succeed best in this; but when one needs men for this (as teachers, statesmen, etc., do), then the repose and coldness and hardness soon vanish. With natures like Caesar and Napoleon, one gets some notion of "disinterested" work on their marble, whatever the cost in men. On this road lies the future of the highest men: to bear the greatest responsibility and not collapse under it. - Hitherto, the delusions of inspiration were almost always needed in order not to lose one's faith in one's right and one's hand.

- Section 975.

Education in those rulers' virtues that master even one's benevolence and pity: the great cultivator's virtues ("forgiving one's enemies" is child's play by comparison), the affect of the creator must be elevated - no longer to work on marble! - The exceptional situation and powerful position of those beings (compared with any prince hitherto): the Roman Caesar with Christ's soul.

- Section 983.

All quotes from The Will to Power, translated by Walter Kaufmann & R. J. Hollingdale; edited by Walter Kaufmann. London: Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1968. (Italics all in the original, not added by me).

 

[MK Scarlett]

[...]On another note, I've been re-watching the HBO series Rome. It doesn't exactly portray Caeser in a positive light: while the political and economic aspects of his program are certainly acknowledged, as well as his use of mercy, Caeser himself comes off as a manipulative, power-hungry would-be tyrant, who acts in the people's interests only to gain the favour of the mob rather than out of a genuine prosocial altruisim. Perhaps this is a bit of a harsh assessment of the show, as compared to the other historical characters Caeser actually comes off quite well. Still, there's no suggestion that he was, in addition to a skilled leader, orator, writer, and strategist, also a deep initiate of stoic mysteries. In fact there is essentially no mention of this philosophical undercurrent at all.

I thought about that too, after have watched the documentary on yesterday, after have read Suetone and now almost finished The Gallic Wars of Cesar. My thought was that, do not exactly portray Caesar in a positive way, is a way to lead us to think he was a bad man which is so far from what we learn about Jesus. So who could believe they were the same man (in some sort) while all is made to let mass think, one was GOD and one was EVIL (look how alleged "Dictators" are handled today, as Evil, The axis of the Evil...). I do not know, but and by following the principles of the Matrix, it would make sense.

 

[Ariadna]

Movie about Julius Caesar. Think I want to watch this one too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYEvyCqo8jU
[/quote]


Here is the Spanish version this movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIohdrceT58

 

[H-KQGE]

Thanks Ariadna! I was looking for that link & had forgotten the name of the movie, have been itching for any movie about him. I hope this one isn't as biased as all the stuff i grew up hearing - a bloodthirsty power-seeking nut job.

 

[psychegram]

[...]On another note, I've been re-watching the HBO series Rome. It doesn't exactly portray Caeser in a positive light: while the political and economic aspects of his program are certainly acknowledged, as well as his use of mercy, Caeser himself comes off as a manipulative, power-hungry would-be tyrant, who acts in the people's interests only to gain the favour of the mob rather than out of a genuine prosocial altruisim. Perhaps this is a bit of a harsh assessment of the show, as compared to the other historical characters Caeser actually comes off quite well. Still, there's no suggestion that he was, in addition to a skilled leader, orator, writer, and strategist, also a deep initiate of stoic mysteries. In fact there is essentially no mention of this philosophical undercurrent at all.

I thought about that too, after have watched the documentary on yesterday, after have read Suetone and now almost finished The Gallic Wars of Cesar. My thought was that, do not exactly portray Caesar in a positive way, is a way to lead us to think he was a bad man which is so far from what we learn about Jesus. So who could believe they were the same man (in some sort) while all is made to let mass think, one was GOD and one was EVIL (look how alleged "Dictators" are handled today, as Evil, The axis of the Evil...). I do not know, but and by following the principles of the Matrix, it would make sense.

Precisely. It seems actually rather similar, on a macrosocial scale, to the ideas being discussed on the "splitting as a symptom of internal considering thread": a great man, who had both positive and negative qualities, poses a great danger to TPTB, as a symbol around which opposition to their authoritarian rule might gather, and as an example to future challengers of that power. Thus, a fictional man is created, onto whom all of the positive qualities of the great man are introjected, leaving the memory of the great man himself to contain only the negative, both the real, the exaggerated, and fabricated. Thus two great lies conceal a single great truth.

Watched a few more episodes of Rome last night. Two things stood out.

First, the clear portrayal of class warfare: the rhetoric of the Pompeiian or Catonian group (Cicero, Cato, Brutus, Pompeii, etc.) is all about respect for tradition, upholding the values of the Republic, and such, however the specific actions implied by this position have everything to do with preserving their own personal wealth and power at the expense of improved conditions for the common people, for whom they have nothing but contempt. Caeser and Mark Antony advance a political program meant to benefit the people: public works employing free men, mandatory reductions in the number of positions held by slaves, expropriation of land for commoners, and social welfare programs; however, the implication is laid on quite thick that this was nothing by a cynical ploy meant to garner the loyalty of the mob for reasons of political advancement, with Caeser's true goal being to establish himself as tyrant in all but name. Antony himself comes off as an extraordinarily brutish and cynical man, behaving very much like a psychopath.

Second, the portrayal of Caeser's funeral. There is no 'crucifixion' with a wax effigy, indeed very little is shown beyond a funeral pyre onto which the grieving mob throws wood to build it higher. The one detail that seems to have been somewhat historically accurate is the cart wheeling Ceaser's fresh corpse through the street, with his arms drooping over the side. Given that this series reputedly prided itself on historical veracity, and that the research illuminating the details of Caeser's funeral has been around for a couple of decades, it is rather curious that the funeral was not portrayed more fully, especially given the high drama it seems to have entailed.

Movie about Julius Caesar. Think I want to watch this one too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYEvyCqo8jU

Here is the Spanish version this movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIohdrceT58
[/quote]

Brilliant find. Thank you for sharing!

 

[Laura]

Happy Caesar's Birthday!

I'm looking forward to talking about him tomorrow night.

 

[Alana]

Happy Caesar's Birthday!

So today is the true Xmas?! ;D

I'm looking forward to talking about him tomorrow night.

I can't wait!

 

[Buddy]

So today is the true Xmas?! ;D

Well, there's a new meaning for my new favorite shortcut: "C'mas", anyway. :D

 

[Leòmhann]

Happy Caesar's Birthday!

I'm looking forward to talking about him tomorrow night.

Me too! :)

H a p p y C ' m a s ! ! :D

Certainly gives new meaning to the frequently celebrated (in these parts) 'Christmas in July' festivities! ;)

Interestingly enough, when I lived in Ocean City, New Jersey, locals had a huge boat parade celebration called 'Nights in Venice,' replete with all kinds of festive Christmas lighting (on the boats, docks, etc).....hmmmm.....Venice is in Italy....... :P

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I'm planning on reading the historical accounts of Caesar's life, but I also want to read a modern biography. So after searching around, I found this one: Julius Ceasar by Philip Freeman. Here's an amazon review:

According to Philip Freeman's account, Julius Caesar may have been the most misunderstood man in history. He owed his military and political career to the plebians, the lower class Romans with whom he sided. By doing this he won the never-ending antipathy of the patrician families who controlled the Roman senate.

As a general Caesar led from the front. When he was in danger of losing a battle to the patrician forces in Spain, he charged the opposing line single-handedly, embarrassing his men into redoubling their efforts, snatching victory from defeat. We know as much as we do about Caesar thanks to his own account of the GALLIC WARS, which has survived, and Freeman quotes from it extensively. Perhaps Caesar's most impressive victory was the BATTLE OF ALESIA, where he fought a two front battle against the Gauls under Vercingetorix whom he'd cornered in the city, only to be confronted by 100,000 Gaulish soldiers in his rear.

We see Caesar rise from a poor patrician family living in the slums of Rome to work his way up from military tribune, to sequester, to aedile, to preaetor and eventually consul of Rome. One of his first official acts was to redistribute land to the plebians and the Roman soldiers, some of which was taken from the rich patrician families who controlled the Senate. On his way to becoming consul, Caesar was in charge of keeping the Appian Way in good repair. Caesar was not only a great general and politician, he was also an engineer, a great public speaker, and a lawyer.

We also get a good look at the Roman Civil Wars. At first, Caesar gained power through a triumvirate with the great general Pompey and Crassus a rich Roman senator. But because of his successes in Gaul, Pompey became jealous and eventually went to war with Caesar after Caesar crossed the Rubicon, a sort of demilitarized zone most generals knew not to cross. Pompey had a large army, more than twice as large as Caesars. When Caesar confronted him in Greece, it looked like the jig was up once again. It was only because of his supreme confidence and superior tactical skills that Caesar was able to defeat the great Pompey.

As you read this biography, you will be amazed at the number of times, Caesar snatched victory from defeat. He should've lost in Gaul, he should've lost to the patrician forces in Spain, he should've been decimated in Egypt. Pompey had him defeated but was too cautious to move in for the kill. Caesar's undoing came when he had defeated the patrician forces and come home to accept his laurels. He was given four triumphs (victory parades) and was made dictator for ten years. During one of the triumphs his soldiers complained that Caesar was spending too much money that should've rightfully gone to his old soldiers. Caesar had two of them put to death and sacrificed to the god Mars. He let the laurels go to his head, and the conspirators were worried he wanted to be king.

My one complaint about the book is that we don't get a real good look at the plot to assassinate Caesar. We don't really know who these people were, other than that Brutus was a former favorite. It's hard to understand why Caesar's former supporters were part of the plot, other than that they were worried Caesar was about to bring down the five hundred-year-old Republic. But as Caesar always said, "The Republic has been dead for years."

I was a history major in college but I never had a firm grip on the civil war between Caesar and Pompey until I read this book, and I never really knew what a great man Caesar was. There's certainly evidence to support Alexander Hamilton's contention that Julius Caesar was the greatest man who ever lived.

 

[sairie]

Happy Caesar's Birthday!

I'm looking forward to talking about him tomorrow night.

I'm looking forward to hearing and getting a more accurate perspective about him.

Happy birthday Caesar !

 

[Lisa Guliani]

What a riveting documentary - fascinating to ponder what could possibly change/take place if masses of people become aware of the information. A totally intriguing and very plausible theory.
Really looking forward to tomorrow's SOTT Talk Radio discussion on this topic.

What an amazing time we're living in.